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Robert
-28th October 2003, 13:51
I had assumed until recently that if a red card was given the fencers were replaced on guard in the centre of the piste. Then at Leicester I saw a president not do so and was a bit curious.

I cannot identify any clear-cut section in the rules. The on-guard section implies fencers are only replaced on guard after a proper hit (not a red card?) but the penalties section implies a red card is called as a hit.

So if a red card is given, does play start from the same spot or from the on-guard line?

Robert

gladiator
-28th October 2003, 16:09
After a penalty hit for any reason, the fencers should be replaced at the on-guard lines as far as I am aware.

One definite example of this is stepping back off the end of the piste. A penalty hit is given. You cannot replace the fencer off the end of the piste indefinitely, therefore clearly replacing them in the middle is correct.

srb
-28th October 2003, 16:23
Originally posted by Robert
at Leicester I saw a president

Robert

I was confused too. I think Conrad was not endeared with the presiding either.

srb

pinkelephant
-1st November 2003, 10:03
Going off the back line is not a penalty hit - it is a normal play "hit". The fencers are therefore returned to the en-guard lines.

pinkelephant
-1st November 2003, 11:56
I've now checked with Ian Hunter.

Apparently at Trapani some referees were doing one thing and some the other. The Arbitrage then sent out the instruction that everybody should do the same thing, and replace competitors on the on guard lines after a penalty hit. So that is what I shall do in future. I wish they'd sort the ****** rule book out though!

By the way, what Conrad was quibbling about was not penalty hits, but two hits which he perceived as his beat attacks (one of which was given as simultaneous with his opponent's beat attack) and one hit given as an attack on his preparation, as he was hit while his point was still aimed at the ceiling. Incidentally, this was the only attack given on his preparation although his attack often landed after the counter-attack.

tigger
-1st November 2003, 13:48
and one hit given as an attack on his preparation, as he was hit while his point was still aimed at the ceiling. Incidentally, this was the only attack given on his preparation although his attack often landed after the counter-attack

Aaah - consistency is what keeps foil alive and well...

pinkelephant
-2nd November 2003, 00:41
Absolutely - it was the only one which arrived before the attack started. Oh, and I'd better declare my interest - I was the referee.