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hokers
-11th January 2008, 13:09
Trying to think of things that remove barriers to people going to competitions. It occurs to me that total petrol/parking costs probably rack up pretty high for everyone driving to competitions.
I reckon it costs me minimum £25-30 to do a Woking-Birmingham/Stratford return, and I'm usually tired from driving as well.

Is it feasible to have a lift sharing section on the forum? Is it even feasible to get as far as hiring a minibus/coach to do the longer motorway journeys with maybe a couple of pickups?

Are we spread too thinly for this to be feasible?
Is there any chance of sabreurs getting up early enough in the morning to make this happen if they have to be there for 9am check-ins for the other weapons?
Would this be ideal for parents not having to travel themselves or is it a giant child protection can of worms?
Would saving money on overnight stays by driving back the same day make it worthwhile?
Thoughts please..

TLove
-11th January 2008, 15:55
Sounds like a good idea.

Most of your questions can be dealt with on an individual basis - it all really depends on the comp and the attendees. Having a forum to discuss this per comp would be a nice idea though.

Except for the bit regarding sabreurs of course - I think you know the answer to that!

Jules
-11th January 2008, 18:08
I have trouble getting to comps because I dont have my own transport...If I could run along with someone else by sharing petrol costs or jump on board a minibus I'd be all for it! Probably that goes for other folks too :)

husy
-12th January 2008, 15:52
I think itís a brilliant idea, I'm sure it will work.

randomsabreur
-12th January 2008, 16:56
It's a nice idea but I'm not sure how well it would work practically, unless people can be dropped off rather than needing to park. It costs more than £6 per day to park at motorway services, and you have to make certain that there is at least a foot bridge across the motorway for the return journey. Also, most out of town park and ride sites are generally not open on Sundays and close by about 8 or 9 (learned this the hard way trying to lift share once before!). Therefore it would only really be open to people who could be dropped off, and picked up by someone who has no plans at all that evening,

Also, everyone seems to want to leave at different times. Sabreurs may be starting after all of the foilists involved have been knocked out - I've been hassled to leave before the presentation on my first ever nationals L8 because the person I was sharing a lift with wanted to go home. I felt guilty for actually wanting to get my certificate, possibly people might feel guilty for doing unexpectedly well, delaying the bus home for everyone else.

PM1
-13th January 2008, 12:21
Would this be ideal for parents not having to travel themselves or is it a giant child protection can of worms?

It IS a can of worms, but it can be turned around and CAN work and work well. It needs relevant checks and balances, a bit of education, co operation and off you go.

We used to work a system like this from school (using a school minibus) and now the parents are using their own cars and taking it in turns - admittedly that is for single weapon LPJS, but it is multi age and the comps start and finish at different times.

Patience is a virtue all epeeists (should) have and sabbies/foilists can acquire with practice :whistle:

Sounds a potentially workable and worthy idea to me.;)

gbm
-13th January 2008, 18:17
Has anybody every used any community minibus schemes, which operate minibuses under Section 19 permits, allowing them (and requiring them) to operate and hire out minibuses on a not-for-profit basis?

(the following information is boring)
Don't forget the conditions attached to driving minibuses. If you passed your (car) test before 1997, you generally get away driving just about anything provided you receive no payment for your driving services (but check possible extra medical standards).
If you passed your test after 1997, to drive minibuses (STRICTLY on a not for hire/reward basis) you need to be 21+, have 2 years experience of car driving, and not drive a minibus with a gross weight of more than 3.5 tons (4.25 if adapted to carry disabled passengers). This rules out, for example, the new 17 seater Transit minibuses (although this is what my Union seems to have :whistle: ). And obviously bear in mind it's not like driving a car!

To be honest most places hiring minibuses will require you to be old anyway!

PS facts and figures not guaranteed to be accurate, it's very difficult to get consistent answers on this off the web!

Red
-13th January 2008, 21:53
With Leicester City Council you need a permit when driving a vehicle with more than 8 passenger seats (I think) and under 3.5 tonnes, on a not for profit etc etc etc.....

free spirit
-15th January 2008, 11:11
Sounds like a good idea.

Most of your questions can be dealt with on an individual basis - it all really depends on the comp and the attendees. Having a forum to discuss this per comp would be a nice idea though.

Except for the bit regarding sabreurs of course - I think you know the answer to that!

As a fencer and parent of a fencer I think it would be a very very good idea. Even sabreurs enjoying a lie in might find it convenient.

I also agree with comments made regarding at times that it is not quite feasible and one would rather not HAVE to wait for everybody to be finished or indeed rather do without the pressure that they are all waiting for you.
However, it COULD work at least sometimes particularly with cost of petrol these days..

A SECTION IN THE FORUM I believe would prove more useful than an individual's request as I have tried in the past.

Lynne
-15th January 2008, 13:33
To be honest most places hiring minibuses will require you to be old anyway!


:eek: GBM! Really! :eek: :mad:

;)

free spirit
-16th February 2008, 07:06
Not much interest appears to be drawn so far to this section judging by the sleepy status of this thread...

Yet, surely a few people from the various regions could help their region fellow fencers attending today/tomorrow the BYC's and next week fencers going to...the same venue to drop off / pick up from JHIs.

If Data Protection Act is the issue, PMs are the solution..

eyewitness
-18th February 2008, 19:43
Lift sharing is alive and well!

The thing is it happens amongst people who already know, like and trust each other. When children are involved, lift sharing is not some arrangement that can be advertised for in a "lifts wanted" column.

Sorry there is no way I'm going to entrust my youngster to a motorway ride with someone who I don't know well. I like to know if the person driving my child obeys speed limits for example!

My youngster regularly gets lifts and I regularly give lifts to 3 fencers from 3 different families. These are children who I find polite, engaging and are friendly with my own youngster, life's too short to put up with a sullen, monosyllabic presence for 150 miles.

In the past I've refused lift offers for my youngster purely because knew that I would not want to return the favour.

Therefore if you want to lift share you have to do some preparation work and strike up friendships with other parents in your region first.

Surely you know who is going to the BYCs from your region, if you know, like and trust the parents you could ask, the worst that can happen is a refusal. It worked for me with my lift share to the JHI!

free spirit
-21st February 2008, 10:05
Although I agree with eyewitness general ideas and indeed it is better to have pleasant polite company during long trips.

As a caring parent I take care of the children under my care: mine or someone else's. I obviously try to make sure that when my children travel with another person it is in a respectful, polite environment. The driver should be a responsible safe driver.

The speed abiding driver does not make a safe driver.

My point remains that the availability of a permanent section in the forum would come in handy in several cases: if new to the fencing community, if one does not get round to obtaining that specially nice person's number before the competition, etc.

eyewitness
-21st February 2008, 10:39
The speed abiding driver does not make a safe driver.


Well we wouldn't be lift sharing then!

I rest my case, you need to get to know other parents before you trust them with your child's life on the motorway!

rory
-21st February 2008, 13:26
Well we wouldn't be lift sharing then!

I rest my case, you need to get to know other parents before you trust them with your child's life on the motorway!


Wow, slightly reactionary there.
Free Spirit is (as far as I can see) only stating the patently obvious fact that drivers who abide by the speed limit are not necessarily safe drivers.

<rant>
There are plenty of morons out there who
1) speed excessively
2) drive too slowly, causing everyone to overtake them
3) drive in the wrong lane
4) cut people up
5)... you get the idea.

Interestingly, I often find that the people most likely to complain about speeding drivers are the ones who you find tootling along in the middle lane, not noticing the large queue of drivers behind them.

That's just as dangerous as speeding.
</rant>

Red
-21st February 2008, 14:08
Well we wouldn't be lift sharing then!

I rest my case, you need to get to know other parents before you trust them with your child's life on the motorway!

Speeding is not the only dangerous thing you can do on the road.
In addition to Rory's list - Texting, smoking, rummaging for a cd, slowing down excessively to go onto a clear exit sliproad, behaving stupidly when blue lights appear...
All of these can be done while driving under the speed limit, are they safe?

free spirit
-21st February 2008, 14:37
TO RORY AND RED

Your interpretation of my point is Spot on.:)

My latest close encounter with a speed abiding driver was yesterday..For over 20 LONG, VERY LONG miles I HAD to drive (with my children and their friends) behind this Posh car driven by a -polite?- well dressed mature (gentle?)/man when WE BOTH were driving UNDER the speed limit.

On several occasions, despite my more than safe distance (and even lower speed) separating our car from the front driver, my passengers, my car and I were subject to the UNSAFE driving of the car in front...

So, I will add to the unsafe things that I try to avoid: making too much polite conversation with my passengers as I believe was the case of the front driver!

Gav
-21st February 2008, 15:33
Although I think a lift sharing section is of limited usefulness I would like to point out to the harsh critics that no one says you have to take anyone up on an offer to give you a lift. This goes doubly for those going on an on about child safety. I think PM1 put that particular topic to bed.

Adam
-23rd February 2008, 17:35
Yes, yes, yes. If you're going to a comp, got a spare seat and want the petrol pennies/can help out please let folks know there's a space going.

Granted, oop north we're more inclined to airport tax it but options are always good.

Nick
-25th February 2008, 13:43
If you want a good example of the large number of fencers en-minibus situation have a look at the Truro method.
Point one that I can think of is that you need to run the calculation in terms of cost effectiveness Ie. does it work out cheaper to hire a minibus or to take a number of cars, based on demand.
Point two linked in with the problem of staying to the end. I was always taught that it's good practice and courteous to stay to the end of the competition including the presentation. Not only are you giving the fencers who make it to the final the support they've earned, but you also get a chance to learn from observation, maybe you'll be able to analise the people who beat you and work out how to beat them in the future. I'm pretty much of the view that this should almost be a required factor for our Juniors and Cadets in competition.
I know there are people who are concerned about getting home quickly after the competition because of work the next day or school, but it's very possible to sleep on coaches/buses (I make a point of taking this oppertunity to catch up on sleep.)

What is it we want to acheive?
Higher Numbers competing.
People performing at their best.
More experienced and more skillful opponents.

If we can make it more afordable for people to get to competitions then more will compete!

If we can arrange a method for people to get to a competition in such a way that they aren't exhausted from driving by the time they get there, then their personal level of performance on the day will be higher!

If people can get to more competitions, they will have more experience fencing varied opponents and more experience of competitive fencing so their skills will improve.

Realistically in the global scheme of things, the purpose of domestic opens is to give our fencers the experience to be able to compete at an international level and also to pick out who are the most capable in this regard. Opens are as much a training ground as a club night. At the moment our opens are the equivalent of a begginers course. Raise standards and we can reach the equivalent of one to one lessons with an experienced international coach.

Nick
-25th February 2008, 13:49
(Ran out of editing time before I could think to add this)
Myself I'm the third person in a chain at my local club. It started with one old veteran saying to another fencer that he would give him a lift for free up to a club which was some distance away, seeing as he was going anyway. It's then passed on to the next person. That fencer (our own Tarmac) in turn made the same deal with me, he's going anyway so he'll give the lift for free. Now I give the same lift to two other fencers regularly the only expectation being that once they can drive/fund the journey themselves that they pay it forward in the same way.

Adam
-25th February 2008, 22:31
Okie dokie, anyone passing through Edinburgh on the way to Dundee this Saturday (1st March) for the 1 hit epee?

free spirit
-26th February 2008, 09:10
If you want a good example of the large number of fencers en-minibus situation have a look at the Truro method.
.....

If we can make it more afordable for people to get to competitions then more will compete!
...
If people can get to more competitions, they will have more experience fencing varied opponents and more experience of competitive fencing so their skills will improve.
...


I Agree SO MUCH with you!!

Nick
-26th February 2008, 11:38
Next thing to add, travelling together builds up a strong team feeling whithin a group. This could start out as something being arranged on a county or regional level (although I think it really needs to start in our local clubs).

A little bit of a tangent I know but, currently our "Team" status in the UK is a bit of a joke at least in international terms. Our team competitions are very often run as a bit of fun added onto the end of an individual competition. I would suggest in cases like the Nationals for example, a change in the rules of Team entry, make it county teams (ie you have to be resident in that county for the majority of the past season, training in a club in that county for an equivalent length of time or born there, I'd say minimum of two of those requirements met) Regional teams would be an improvement at least, or the final version would be to say each club in the country may send one team. Increase the competitivness in the clubs to make it onto "the team" who get to go to the nationals. Only way to be on that club team is to have fenced the majority of your circuit competitions as a representative of that club.

The reason for the requirements for allowing people to fence for their club, is to stop people from going out to a small local club who wouldn't normally draw a high standard of fencer to be entered as their fencer just so they can be sure of a place. In the case that they do decide to go to another smaller club to "guarantee" their place then the club benefits from the more experienced fencer being in residence. Fair?

Bambi
-26th February 2008, 13:09
[QUOTE=Nick;191186]Next thing to add, travelling together builds up a strong team feeling whithin a group. This could start out as something being arranged on a county or regional level (although I think it really needs to start in our local clubs). QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more. While at Uni my bigest highlight (apart from graduating!)was driving down from Aberdeen to the BUSA Teams Finals two years ago. Granted we had to leave early in the morning and about a week before cos the bus was slow, but we had a great time.

Always gave the beginners a sense of being part of the team when they'd join us at other comps too.

NLSC Sabreur
-26th February 2008, 14:35
........ Fair?

I have no arguments with your first point. If it's practical then travelling together is good. The competitive fencers at my clubs have quite a wide geographical distribution so only trips abroad will there be a big group. Its quite different for university clubs where you can all just start at the university.

There is a county based competition - Excalibur. (I went last year but due my declining ranking wasn't picked this year.) There is also the regional based Winton Cup.

Why would anyone fight harder for a county or a region than for the club and team mates with which they train? Outside of Yorkshire and Cornwall (which doesn't exactly view itself as a county) is anyone that excited by competing for the abstract concept of their counties? You can certainly see pride and effort at Excalibur but I think its mostly about personal relationships that may develop partly due to proximity.

Teams at the national are about inclusion rather complex rules governing who can or cannot enter. The hardest fought matches are often between teams from the same club.

If you want teams to be taken seriously then I think you need seperate team competitions. National coaching training could include advice and preparation for team matches.

Nick
-26th February 2008, 14:48
Exactly Bambi We are participants in a sport were it's very easy to feel isolated. So anything which builds a feeling of there being a support structure in place especially in the case of younger fencers can be positive.
Imagine you're a young fencer going to your first competition. But with you on the journey you've got experienced competitors who are going to come and support you during your bouts and who you can look up to (again giving support to them during their later rounds).
In a lot of ways I think this is the way to make fencing more of a spectator sport as seems to be the FIE's aim. Build up the size of the audience watching with each successive round. As fencers get knocked out of the competition so the audience grows. Build stronger connections between the people who travel together and they start to have a stake (emotionally at least) in who wins. A person from the local press comes along to do a report for the local paper and talks about the electric atmosphere during the final as the audience cheered for their chosen fencer. Any pictures taken during the final have this large audience in the background. Lets be honest the average sport fan is a sheep! they see lots of people watching something they decide they want to see it as well.
If it's possible to make darts/snooker/football/cricket/figure skating televisual then it's possible to get fencing there as well although I'd suggest that the team match format is where we'd need to start. Fencing bouts in the individual rounds just aren't long enough for TV's current demand unless they're covering from the last 32 onwards following specific fencers. Big names from the rankings, the top few in the seedings of the day and the possibility of changing focus if someone seems to be causing a lot of upsets performing highly unexpectedly. (I have way too much time for thinking on my hands)

Nick
-26th February 2008, 15:08
Right I'm going to take this section by section.


I have no arguments with your first point. If it's practical then travelling together is good. The competitive fencers at my clubs have quite a wide geographical distribution so only trips abroad will there be a big group. Its quite different for university clubs where you can all just start at the university.

Why not all start at your club? I would assume that the majority of your fencers live whithin an hours commute of the venue where you train and especially if you're London based then they live whithin an hour of at least one club. I may be basing things from a rural standpoint to a certain extent. In my case the club I train at is 30minutes away once I'm on the motorway so approximately an hours drive. One of my other clubs is an hour away in the opposite direction.



There is a county based competition - Excalibur. (I went last year but due my declining ranking wasn't picked this year.) There is also the regional based Winton Cup.

Why would anyone fight harder for a county or a region than for the club and team mates with which they train? Outside of Yorkshire and Cornwall (which doesn't exactly view itself as a county) is anyone that excited by competing for the abstract concept of their counties? You can certainly see pride and effort at Excalibur but I think its mostly about personal relationships that may develop partly due to proximity.

Exactly the problem, there are basically two competitions. Excalibur is invitational (I've been along a couple of times) and isn't really considered to be a serious event. There is no special recognition for the competition or even for having made it onto your counties team.
Winton is a little bit better but again it's not given much in the way of national recognition.



Teams at the national are about inclusion rather complex rules governing who can or cannot enter. The hardest fought matches are often between teams from the same club.


Exactly the problem it becomes no different than a social team match inside the club. This is meant to be the "British NATIONAL Team CHAMPIONSHIPS"



If you want teams to be taken seriously then I think you need seperate team competitions. National coaching training could include advice and preparation for team matches.

How about we just start taking seriously what we already have? Is that really so hard or have you just proved my point that team matches in the UK are a bit of a joke?

randomsabreur
-26th February 2008, 18:07
A lot of the problem for club meeting points is that some people would have to travel 30 minutes in the WRONG direction, and allowing waiting time, would be leaving an hour earlier than they otherwise would. If, as is common for the more central parts of the country, the total journey is about 2 hours (about right for a lot of those who fence for NLSC), that is a fairly major reason not to travel as a club...

It's a lot easier if you are in one of the sticky out bits, then with a strategic meeting place, the meeting point is not the wrong way.

Excalibur is taken VERY seriously by Surrey, Somerset and Cornwall. Individual weapon teams from other counties take it seriously if they are in with a chance of the individual or team prize. The remaining fencers consider it "fun" but want to win every match they can. Caring too much is counter productive - I've been exceptionally happy when my team has scraped their only win of the competition 5-4, following a series of 6-3 defeats. The only time I've taken it truely seriously was when I was in the Warwickshire team and we won all bar 1 match - lost only to Somerset. Every other time, I've been relaxed (and hungover on day 2).

People also take the nationals seriously, at least the teams at the top do. The rest of us simply get annoyed at a format which gives teams which aren't at the top little or no chance of getting more than 2 fights. If the format of the Nationals was more fencer friendly, people might care more about being selected. Otherwise it's a night in a hotel followed by 2 matches and home.

As for restricting teams to club teams with strict affiliation rules, that would hit fencers from smaller clubs very hard. In WS there would only be a few clubs who would be able to field a team - Truro, Scimitar, LTFC, Bath Sword, Laszlos, City and Millfield. The rest of us would have to sit and watch, not gaining team experience in the only relay team opportunity outside 5 Nations.

Nick
-26th February 2008, 20:12
A lot of the problem for club meeting points is that some people would have to travel 30 minutes in the WRONG direction, and allowing waiting time, would be leaving an hour earlier than they otherwise would. If, as is common for the more central parts of the country, the total journey is about 2 hours (about right for a lot of those who fence for NLSC), that is a fairly major reason not to travel as a club...

Car share! Bus route with stopping points along the way to collect people. Both options which acheive the goal.



Excalibur is taken VERY seriously by Surrey, Somerset and Cornwall. Individual weapon teams from other counties take it seriously if they are in with a chance of the individual or team prize. The remaining fencers consider it "fun" but want to win every match they can. Caring too much is counter productive - I've been exceptionally happy when my team has scraped their only win of the competition 5-4, following a series of 6-3 defeats. The only time I've taken it truely seriously was when I was in the Warwickshire team and we won all bar 1 match - lost only to Somerset. Every other time, I've been relaxed (and hungover on day 2).

It may well be taken seriously by those directly involved but in the overall scheme of things, the competition isn't given much relevance by British Fencing or the level of interest which this type of competition really deserves.



People also take the nationals seriously, at least the teams at the top do. The rest of us simply get annoyed at a format which gives teams which aren't at the top little or no chance of getting more than 2 fights. If the format of the Nationals was more fencer friendly, people might care more about being selected. Otherwise it's a night in a hotel followed by 2 matches and home.
The individual events are taken seriously, I question your assertion that the team event is taken seriously. Even if it is, the current format assumes that we're producing good teams. We quite simply are not! Our team matches are terrible to watch. A team can only get good experience by fencing other teams who are on their level. Break apart the so called "top teams" for a couple of years spread their fencers among different clubs, you'll have teams fencing at a middling quallity of performance for a couple of years but then they will start to improve with experience. Because the playing field will be more even more teams will consider it to be worthwhile entering, short term result more teams fencing at a lower standard overall. Long term result, because of the possibility of victory existing as an "acheivable" goal the teams will keep on pushing themselves to improve and beat rival teams. Again the overall national standard will rise. But we have to be willing as a country to accept a drop in performance for a few years as this is implemented. "If you keep doing what you've always done, you keep getting what you've always got"
In our case this means poor team results internationally. Look at some of the top fencing countries in the world at the moment and look back at their results history around when they started getting good results. It's amazing how it seems to be that these places started out by focusing on team results, usually in one weapon.



As for restricting teams to club teams with strict affiliation rules, that would hit fencers from smaller clubs very hard. In WS there would only be a few clubs who would be able to field a team - Truro, Scimitar, LTFC, Bath Sword, Laszlos, City and Millfield. The rest of us would have to sit and watch,
I suggest it would have an opposite effect, in that it would become easier to field a team as people would consider a win in these events to be acheivable. I also suggest that fencers who are the apparent "Top" in the case that they don't make it on to their club team, are extremely likely to filter down to the smaller clubs just to get to fence. (Example have a look at the makeup of teams for Excalibur, how some of these people can make a claim as fencing for that county I have no idea) I concede that my suggestion on how to qualify for a club team may be a little too harsh almost, but the qualification should be enough to get the "top" fencers to head out to the smaller clubs and train at them enough to raise the standards of these clubs as well.


not gaining team experience in the only relay team opportunity outside 5 Nations.
And there you make my point for me.


This whole thing only works if as a nation we can accept a drop in overall performance short term in exchange for a long term improvement.

Drop back from being mediocre for a short period of time. So that we can become excellent in the long term.

pinkelephant
-26th February 2008, 20:45
The Nationals is NOT the only relay opportunity outside the 5 nations. Why don't other weapons do as epee has done, and introduce some? There is the team event at the Miller-Hallett, and the one at the Bill Hoskyns.

For the Schools Team Championships this coming weekend, which is also a relay event, we have 44 foil teams, 64 epee teams - but only 11 sabre teams. Is this a reflection of the lack of sabre in schools - or of the apathy of sabreurs/sabreuses?

hokers
-27th February 2008, 08:23
Mods, can we split the team competition discussion into a new thread please? Some interesting points being raised.

free spirit
-27th February 2008, 12:39
The Nationals is NOT the only relay opportunity outside the 5 nations. Why don't other weapons do as epee has done, and introduce some? There is the team event at the Miller-Hallett, and the one at the Bill Hoskyns.

For the Schools Team Championships this coming weekend, which is also a relay event, we have 44 foil teams, 64 epee teams - but only 11 sabre teams. Is this a reflection of the lack of sabre in schools - or of the apathy of sabreurs/sabreuses?
If our school fencers' travel arrangements were not at my own expense and trouble, they would probably enter again the Public School's competition.
Last year I put up with all the costs and driving the long journey to Crystal Palace but it proved to be a long expensive day despite Junior's achievement.
The school entered the event for the first time (after MY request AND the Support of the school's Fencing Coaches). Bearing in mind that the fencing at school is rather a low key Friday after school club, there is Very few fencers interested in fencing outside of this time..So in the end only a total of 2 entered. The students made the school proud Full Stop.
I would welcome offers from the school/ other schools to share/give our school fencers' a lift or the likes before I ask the school to enter the competition again.

pinkelephant
-27th February 2008, 14:54
If our school fencers' travel arrangements were not at my own expense and trouble, they would probably enter again the Public School's competition.
Last year I put up with all the costs and driving the long journey to Crystal Palace but it proved to be a long expensive day despite Junior's achievement.
The school entered the event for the first time (after MY request AND the Support of the school's Fencing Coaches). Bearing in mind that the fencing at school is rather a low key Friday after school club, there is Very few fencers interested in fencing outside of this time..So in the end only a total of 2 entered. The students made the school proud Full Stop.
I would welcome offers from the school/ other schools to share/give our school fencers' a lift or the likes before I ask the school to enter the competition again.

The Public Schools Championship is an individual event - not to be confused with the Schools Team Championship (which has no restriction on the type of school)

free spirit
-27th February 2008, 15:07
The Public Schools Championship is an individual event - not to be confused with the Schools Team Championship (which has no restriction on the type of school)

Thank you for the clarification.http://www.fencingforum.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif
Just goes to show how much learning one still has to do after 3 years into fencing!

Nevertheless, the case remains: sharing lifts= more competitions, more fencers, more schools involved, etc.

Nick
-27th February 2008, 21:24
Whereabouts in the South west are you based?
I assume it's too late for your lot to enter this year but I take about half a minibus-worth of fencers along each year from Exeter. As I've been saying liftsharing is the way forward (especially travelling en-masse, en-minibus).

Nick
-27th February 2008, 21:30
The Nationals is NOT the only relay opportunity outside the 5 nations. Why don't other weapons do as epee has done, and introduce some? There is the team event at the Miller-Hallett, and the one at the Bill Hoskyns.

For the Schools Team Championships this coming weekend, which is also a relay event, we have 44 foil teams, 64 epee teams - but only 11 sabre teams. Is this a reflection of the lack of sabre in schools - or of the apathy of sabreurs/sabreuses?

Exactly these competitions do exist but what is the point of them?
Interesting to note that randomsabruer isn't familiar with these other team events existing. Lack of infomation getting through to people about them?
Thinking long term, it might be good to see if it would be possible to set up a team ranking system. Based on each of these events. It would mean there was an actual reason behind having these team matches.

(Only little message today, I'm stopping now otherwise I'll start ranting and rambling about the possibilities and problems with such a system.)

pinkelephant
-27th February 2008, 22:08
You might just as well ask what is the point of fencing? Because it's FUN.

Randomsabreur doesn't know about them because the poor deluded girl
is a sabreur.

UglyBug
-28th February 2008, 08:01
Fencing? Fun? PE you're sounding dangerously close to being old-fashioned there...

And your comment on Random - generally deluded or the fact she is a sabreur makes her deluded? (sorry Random, love you really x)

Red
-28th February 2008, 12:04
The Cole also has a team sabre event.

randomsabreur
-28th February 2008, 15:39
I was aware of the events ;) I simply deemed them irrelevant to me, other than from an avoiding being roped in perspective!

From a pure sabre perspective, when you're too old for schools teams, BUSA and Camden Cadet, Miller Hallet and Milner Barry Team events aren't all that useful for sabre team experience. The Cole has recently started doing a mixed team event (used to be me only, clashing with WS individual), which isn't a proper WS team event. I quite enjoy fencing the men, occasionally, but it would be nice to have a proper relay team event for WS fencers who aren't in any home country team and are not at school, university or aged under 17, and which gives each team more than a couple of poule fights (Nationals!) It would be even better if Excalibur and Winton would go to relay matches, but given issues with full teams, I would imagine this is fairly unlikely to happen.

Sabreurs could be too scattered about to be able to find enough fencers, WS seems particularly scattered at a school level (other than the usual suspects (Millfield, Brentwood, Whitgift). A lot of the fencers from the same club aren't from the same school, certainly affects the Bedford kids, who would be a Bedford Sabre team if it wasn't a school event.

R

free spirit
-4th March 2008, 11:39
Interesting to note that randomsabruer isn't familiar with these other team events existing. Lack of infomation getting through to people about them?
Thinking long term, it might be good to see if it would be possible to set up a team ranking system. Based on each of these events. It would mean there was an actual reason behind having these team matches.



Yet again I find myself agreeing with you...

Also, thanks for the offer: " Whereabouts in the South west are you based? I assume it's too late for your lot to enter this year .."

Yes it was too late plus, I still do not know enough about it yet to check whether the school might do it next year.
However, I will PM you to check calendars and possible lift sharing for the future.

DSSabre
-20th May 2008, 14:38
Don't think that Whitgift has girls.

If sabre fencing in general wants a team event i'll host one.