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Tarmac
-30th October 2003, 14:16
A couple of weeks ago i got my my thumb bent backwards as my opponent and self came in together at speed...
in the meantime i've been doing epee... and winning a fair bit... but it still hurts like hell when i do sabre.
Any advice for getting a sabre damaged thumb back on the road to recovery? Apart from not doing sabre obviously...:grin:

symon
-30th October 2003, 14:19
sorry tarmac i dont do sabre and have no advise but 1 word.............." OUCH!!!" how u get better soon mate!!

Gav
-30th October 2003, 14:43
Don't do Sabre.
Rest your hand.
Use your other hand for tasks that might aggravate it. [!]
See a doctor if it is really sore.

There's not much that can be done if your thumb is broken except put one of those finger splints.

Tarmac
-30th October 2003, 14:47
Doh.:(

Brett
-30th October 2003, 14:55
sabreurs have opposable thumbs?

Tarmac
-30th October 2003, 14:58
oooh meeeeow!
and what weapon do you use? a handbag?:tongue:

alec frenzy
-30th October 2003, 19:37
Some advice:

Rest your thumb untill it is better, DO NOT FENCE untill it is.

Otherwise the injury will reoccur and get worse and worse.


Seek professional advice - state registered sports physio for example, they can also teach you how to strap the thumb to prevent it happening again.

Whether soft tissue injury or bony injury prompt treatment will help.

If iced straight away then the recovery will be faster as well.



Just by 2p.

Moose
-31st October 2003, 01:27
My coach got a nasty crack across his thumb at sabre, it still aggrevates him to this day (He sets me on the guy that did it to him :grin: )

tigger
-31st October 2003, 08:57
As a professional guitarist and a sabreur I should have great experience in 'defence against thumb mashing' techniques.

However my policy has always been ignore it and carry on - it's unavoidable if you do sabre a lot. You're bound to have the odd clash that bends back the thumb. If it's not broken just rest it. if broken, strap it.

I have the small advantage of double-jointed thumbs, but the disadvantage of long finger/thumb nails on the R hand!

LP's Barry did give me a high-density foam pad for inside the sabre guard, which I suppose could help, but it just felt weird and I couldn't fence with it on. Ok I can't fence with it off either, but it made matters worse :grin:

Moose
-31st October 2003, 17:42
I've found that I tend to fight better when someone cracks me across the thumb, cos it makes me angry so I tend to speed up :grin:

uk_45
-1st November 2003, 19:05
Originally posted by Moose
I've found that I tend to fight better when someone cracks me across the thumb, cos it makes me angry so I tend to speed up :grin:

Yeah but it's one of FIE stupid rules that they don't like what is called 'hard hitting'. Boring or what i mean where does the fun go :(

Moose
-1st November 2003, 23:30
It doesnt make me hit harder, it just speeds me up. I make parries without even thinking about them. but when I'm not annoyed I tend to be fairly crap :grin:

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 16:09
funny i'm the other way around...:tongue:
besides this wasn't a little tickle across the thumb (as if i'd let them ) this was thumb being bent back so far that holding a sabre was nigh on impossible.. let alone parrying!!

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 16:22
Hmmmmmm i can't pary any way :tongue: :transport

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 16:25
Then you have three choices:
1) Step back
2) Duck
3) ATTACK!!!
:grin:

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 16:44
Hmmm i attack which can get annoying lol just kiding i can pary just not very well if a see any blade movment i tend to attack or pary in a stupid line.

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 16:55
Well as long as you're having fun:grin:
disengage... and work on the speed of your ripostes
have ya tried hitting a ball attached to a piece of string? good practise although a tad dull;)

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 17:20
Hmmm i just prefer hitting club members;)

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 17:24
don't we all :grin:

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 17:25
Yeah coach says i should let them get a mask on first tho ;)

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 17:28
LOL yeah its nice to give them a sporting chance.
Although when i was at one comp there was one kid who insisted on turning round and whipping his mask off the minute he thought he'd won the point...
result?
one point only(not his)... and a good blow to the head...(his)

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 17:32
well the newbies have a thing at our club of not wearing a glove and then running off half way thro the bout to get one

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 17:36
i have to teach the newbies sabre so they have to wear them... or they don't get a blade! personally i think the little ones should wear some kind of platemail. or at least let me have some when i'm trying to explain distance!!!:grin:

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 17:40
Well when newbies do it here they do the holding a mask thing between to of them to teach keeping distance. It is a sure way to put a few more bumps in the mask.

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 17:44
Originally posted by uk_45
Well when newbies do it here they do the holding a mask thing between to of them to teach keeping distance.
whats that then? Don't know that technique..

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 17:47
it's kinda hard to explain but well 2 people come en-guard but they place there sword hand against the side of a mask and then do steps backwards and forwards and if one of them doesn't keep distance the mask falls to the ground. if that makes scense

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 17:51
i get ya ... brilliant!! :grin:
finally they might understand what i'm banging on about!:)

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 17:55
It works a treat because it really shows how important foot work can be and it is very very funny to watch particlly when a mask lands on some ones toes

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 18:00
might just have to put some bricks in them in that case!!
usually i line the students up facing each other with their blade tips just crossed and they have to maintain that distance... but unless the student is particulary interested, switched on and not dreaming about being darth vader or frodo flippin baggins it rarely works...

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 18:02
Yeah we have a few sat wars fencers, but we beat it out of them, and people say james bond did fencing good, i don't think so not with the technique.

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 18:06
yes wild blows with that broadsword.. and i would've stuck to the sabre... much much faster!! would've had his hand off after his first giant slash!:grin: if i dare say so myself...:tongue:

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 18:10
Hmmm yeah altho the broadsword fighting shows how much respect sabeures (i cant spell it) have for rules. But why did they choose epee's why oh why?

Tarmac
-2nd November 2003, 18:13
maybe cos bond's getting older... and slower:tongue:
or maybe he mashed his thumb!!:rolleyes:

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 18:16
Hmm could be it or maybe bond is incapable of fencing with talent.

Jambo
-2nd November 2003, 18:16
Originally posted by uk_45
But why did they choose epee's why oh why?

Cos its more obvious whats going on to the uninitiated. No target area/ROW issues. Although some nice sabre parries would have looked much better!!

uk_45
-2nd November 2003, 18:19
Hmmm yeah they would and acctually the graves guy (the bady) does get 'His Thumb Mashed';) :tongue: :)

Moose
-3rd November 2003, 00:59
Trouble is the dueling sabre is not a battlefield weapon, its not built for use against a more substantial weapon. I could use my bastard sword against most modern day sabruers and at least take them with me. The dueling sabre is designed as an elegant weapon and is a far cry from the light cavalry sabre or the heavy cavalry sword, both of which would be unparryable with a dueling sabre. I'd love a substantial weapon in fencing, however even a blunt sword would cause serious injury due to its weight.

At the end of the day all of the current swords are derivatives of the swords carried by the fops of yesteryear, they are only good for show or dueling. I'd really love a weapon where half the skill was in having the strength to use it.

Tarmac
-5th November 2003, 15:05
what like a great sword?
I remember using a stage prop one...made of latex, and that was well heavy... can't imagine the strength you'd need to wield one.
or how effective they could be if you miss your target.
as for using a heavy weapon.. tie a couple of weights onto your weapon of choice... et voila!!
although this could cause you to parry a tad wild when the weights are removed:tongue:

Moose
-6th November 2003, 03:20
A great sword is a bit silly, but try weilding a heavy cavalry sword or a scottish claymore, both used by the British Army during the Napoleonic wars. Some of the single handed swords I've used in reenactment have been pretty unweildy too. However for a true masters sword take a look at the bastard sword, 1 1/2 hands so it doesn't allow you to use a shield, thus you have to think about defence more. Take the sabre quinte parry, where the guard is kept in the high sixte line. To get a powerful reposte from this position you need to arc your blade round and cut to the opponents left shoulder, however your opponent is holding his shield there, so this move is implactical. However if you cross the guard over your body so that you are in quinte but with the guard in the quarte line your reposte will now be to your opponents right shoulder, thus no shield and dead opponent :grin:

Tarmac
-6th November 2003, 14:51
extraordinary stuff!!! most fascinating...
a friend of mine and self have been experimenting in the sabre in the left and epee in the right approach... its just a pain to wire up - bl**dy good fun though!:grin:

Moose
-6th November 2003, 20:21
You can make a dagger fairly easily if you can find a small enough blade. Its then just a matter of wiring an epee tip to the end of it :)

Tarmac
-6th November 2003, 20:24
thought it would be easier if we just had a pair of sabres each :grin: :grin: :grin:

Moose
-6th November 2003, 20:26
Mwahahahaa that is truely evil. Another option is to use one of the old sensors and rewire the sabre so that it registers a hit for you when ever the sensor trips. Then earth the blades a la epee. Run the box in epee mode and you "might" be able to have sabre with full body target.

Tarmac
-6th November 2003, 20:31
now that would be something!!!:fencingsm

Moose
-6th November 2003, 20:34
Dunno if it'd work, but it might/

Tarmac
-6th November 2003, 20:37
who cares..? Worth a try!!!:grin:
once my thumb gets better anyway:)

uk_45
-8th November 2003, 10:11
Just to be annoying i don't think it would work a the epee has a push swicth at the end of it wich makes the circuit. Sabre has no push swicth (button). Sorry Moose

Marcos
-21st November 2003, 13:43
What actually happens when you get a mashed thumb?
is it a sprain, bruise, etc?

First fight last Sunday I got a pretty bad one - thumb bent right back, pain, etc etc - after a clash of guards.

put some Biofreeze on it to prevent swelling, then ignored it and carried on

contrary to doctor's (Jambo's) orders fenced a little on wednesday which didn't do it any good.

Anyway, now Friday and still in pain - in fact seems to be getting worse. :(

is bed rest the only cure?

Jambo
-21st November 2003, 16:05
I think its usually a strain of the muscles and tendons from over extending the thumb. If its torn at all then fencing on it just keeps tearing it and doesnt let it heal, it'll be weak for a while and prone to reinjury.

Tarmac
-23rd November 2003, 18:01
marcos dude, you gotta rest it.. it can take months... and plenty of them...
my thumb's still recovering and that was early october when i damaged it. Use an icepack when you can but don't fence sabre AT ALL!! believe me you'll only end up permently damaging it.
I've been doing epee since and this doesn't seem to aggrevate it as it doesn't put anywhere near as much pressure on the thumb.
Ibuprofen (or red wine), ice pack and plenty of rest - take the opportunity to do some left handed practise or work out those kinks in your footwork.
and its always to hear the scream of frustration of an epeeist when you pull out a move which has absolutely no place in an epee bout:grin: