PDA

View Full Version : Cadet and Junior World Championships



Keith.A.Smith
-3rd April 2008, 18:53
Dear All,

The World Championships start in earnest on Sunday.

Good luck to all our Cadet and Junior fencers both in the individual and team events.

Travel safely and fence well.

Best wishes,

Keith

Meg_SF
-3rd April 2008, 19:40
Good luck everybody! Fingers crossed. Go For It!

Boo Boo
-5th April 2008, 22:26
Good luck to everybody :)

Hope that your hard work and determination pays off and that you have a great time along the way.

:mexwave:

Boo

madfencer
-6th April 2008, 00:31
Best of luck everyone! You all deserve good results.

madfencer :)

monobrow
-6th April 2008, 06:50
anyone know if there's a web site?

pinkelephant
-6th April 2008, 08:14
http://www.escrime-acireale.com/eng/classifiche.htm?pagina=classifiche#risultati

Nothing up yet though.

Boo Boo
-6th April 2008, 09:05
Anybody got any news yet?

Nothing on the website, WS was due to start at 8.30am and Italy must be an hour ahead?

Boo

Boo Boo
-6th April 2008, 09:10
Oooohhhh! Sorry to answer my own question, but others may find this helpful - http://live.fie.ch/

(including "live" results - fantastic :) )

Boo

pinkelephant
-6th April 2008, 10:02
That's better!

pinkelephant
-6th April 2008, 10:08
Looks like the girls are all out in the 32 - tableau not updated but their opponents are all fencing in the 16. A shame for grace, who was seeded 6 after the pools.

Ronald Velden
-6th April 2008, 10:16
There appears to be a very low turnout in these World Championships based
on entry in both boys foil and girls sabre. Where are the French?

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 10:51
There appears to be a very low turnout in these World Championships based
on entry in both boys foil and girls sabre. Where are the French?

And where are the Chinese?

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 11:25
Husayn and James both into L32, Just Jamie's result to go up - here's hoping!

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 11:30
And now Jamie makes it as well - well done chaps!

Boo Boo
-6th April 2008, 11:39
Good luck to the MFs :)

US results for WS are interesting - going from YEARS of virtually completely dominating the event, to one L16 and two L32s.

Boo

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 12:40
These live scores are almost worse than not knowing - the tension is painful!!!

Australian
-6th April 2008, 12:49
Husayn through to the 16

Jamie is out though...

UglyBug
-6th April 2008, 13:27
Davis through too. How is that kid still U17? I'd be terrified if I turned up as a cadet and had to face him!

Australian
-6th April 2008, 14:09
Husayn into the last 8, to meet the winner of Davis and Revutskiy (4th out of poules Ukrainian) which has just started

grs
-6th April 2008, 14:17
Well done Husayn. Go James
:)

Tubby
-6th April 2008, 14:35
into 3rd period, James 12-8 down.
(from L32 its wireless plus video reply challenge). now 13-9.

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 14:37
Great for Husayn. He was distaught at going out in the L64 last year after being seeded 5th, quite rightly (having watched it). But note that the Greek he lost to is also now in the L8 this year!!

The lad has always had the talent and now he is starting to get the right mental attitude not only to win, but to train to win.

Tubby
-6th April 2008, 14:39
james now out. he had loads of trouble with his equipment using the wireless kit. very distracting and worrying as he was down to his last weapon having had 4 in his bag.

StabInTheDark
-6th April 2008, 14:57
score after first time period Revutskiy 6 Rosowsky 6

StabInTheDark
-6th April 2008, 15:04
Revutskiy UKR 9 Rosowsky GBR 12

Tubby
-6th April 2008, 15:09
husayn through 15-12

StabInTheDark
-6th April 2008, 15:10
Husayn won 15 12!!!

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 15:14
Wow - a world medal - Shame I've lost his dad's mobile number to text him!!!

StabInTheDark
-6th April 2008, 15:42
Husayn's semifinal due to happen at 18:00 local time, that's seven o clock in pounds sterling: mind you we're now being entertained with a dance drama about a boy whose mother wanted him to be a fish and the 17:30 womens sabre semifinalists aren't even in the hall yet.

very folklore

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 15:48
Husayn's semifinal due to happen at 18:00 local time, that's seven o clock in pounds sterling: mind you we're now being entertained with a dance drama about a boy whose mother wanted him to be a fish and the 17:30 womens sabre semifinalists aren't even in the hall yet.

very folklore

Correction - that is 5pm or 17:00 British time.

Boo Boo
-6th April 2008, 16:08
Very good luck to Husayn! What a star - hope that his hard work and determination brings him even more success this evening.

:mexwave:

Well done to everyone today and hope that things go well for our fencers tomorrow :)

Boo

grs
-6th April 2008, 17:00
These live scores are almost worse than not knowing - the tension is painful!!!

You are right it is stressful - come on Husayn. 5 - 3 down :eek:

PM1
-6th April 2008, 17:10
That was well weird !!! Well done Husayn (go go Yorkies) and bad luck losing, was it 11/7 ? I suspect Amal and Andrei are out there too......

pigeonmeister
-6th April 2008, 17:16
fantastic!

Well done, Husayn :)

Good luck to the rest of you..

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 17:20
Shame, never ahead and went down 11:7 at time. Very close and I suspect the 4 hit margin was due to chasing the game.

Still a fantastic result. A world medal!!!!

The talent is Husayn's but lets give some congrats to the system. I am quick to criticise the system when it fails so I should be just as quick to give praise. Husayn is now on the revamped TASS programme under Sheffield Hallam Uni for strength and conditioning. I am sure that cannot have harmed his game.

They have a very professional set up there.

Catriona is under them as well, but more at arms length. What I have picked up form them is the old saying. "Many have the will to win, but few have the will to train to win". In fencing that doesn't just mean thrashing up and down a piste or taking lessons, but the physical conditioning and the mental preparation.

What little I have seen of Husayn recently, a brief hello in Sheffield last week, he seems to be maturing into his talent.

Let's also say a big well done to mum and dad Rosowsky. The miles that family have travelled and the money they have poured into their 3 children's fencing over the year's I have known them is astounding.

Finally congrats to his first coach Adam Blight in Sheffield, where he still fences and to Robert Kiss.

But most of all well done to Husayn!

Again congratulations Husayn

PM1
-6th April 2008, 17:21
Very impressed with the results so far, especially foil. Keep it up !! Go go epee !!

I second Paul's comments. Boy grew up fencing the Rosowsky boys until he gave up foil, and indeed they shared Adam as coach for many a year. The Rosowsky's are a lovely family, all helping each other (and others) reach their potential. Always good to share the craic with any of them.

Wel done Husayn !! Look forward to seeing that medal !! How about April 20th at Yorkie Youth League in Hull, hmm??

madfencer
-6th April 2008, 17:35
Brilliant result for Husayn and his coach, well done! Best of luck to the others for tomorrow.

Boo Boo
-6th April 2008, 18:19
Fantastic result - world championship medal :)

Very well done.

Boo

grs
-6th April 2008, 18:38
Fantastic result - world championship medal :)

Very well done.

Boo

Likewise, congratulations Husayn. :) :) :) :)



Finally congrats to his first coach Adam Blight in Sheffield, where he still fences and to Robert Kiss.

But most of all well done to Husayn!

Again congratulations Husayn


Congratulations also to all the family (especially parental support) who have all contributed to fencing.

Graham Stretton

Goodwood
-6th April 2008, 18:39
Well done to all. Great results.

Tubby
-6th April 2008, 18:48
down 11:7 at time.
is that what it said on the web site? The final score was 15-10.

Husayn was so gallent fencing. It was tough having to fence the italian lad with a few thousand locals baying for every hit.

fencingmaster
-6th April 2008, 18:53
http://live.fie.ch/index2.html

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 19:01
is that what it said on the web site? The final score was 15-10.

Husayn was so gallent fencing. It was tough having to fence the italian lad with a few thousand locals baying for every hit.

I stand corrected, but the live scoring definately came up as V11 : D7, which did confuse me because I did not think there had been 3 periods.

And at least Husayn lost to the winner - which always helps a little bit!!!

rastaroso
-6th April 2008, 19:04
Husayn you absolute legend knew you had it in ya our kid. Finally a rosowsky breakthrough and at the biggest stage. May this be the start of great things to come brov and for us all inshallah. Well done from all the boys Ricky, Cookie, Jeff, Mark Owen and Ziemek. Rest hard see you soon.

p.s Due to this amazing result i have know unblocked from my facebook. You can be my friend.

pinkelephant
-6th April 2008, 19:13
Well done Husayn - fantastic result.:not_worth

Cymru Fach
-6th April 2008, 19:33
Excellent results!!

CF

Baldric
-6th April 2008, 19:50
Brilliant result Husayn - bloody well done! :not_worth:not_worth:not_worth:not_worth

husy
-6th April 2008, 20:07
:D Well done husayn!!!!

Foilling Around
-6th April 2008, 20:58
Husayn you absolute legend knew you had it in ya our kid. Finally a rosowsky breakthrough and at the biggest stage. May this be the start of great things to come brov and for us all inshallah. Well done from all the boys Ricky, Cookie, Jeff, Mark Owen and Ziemek. Rest hard see you soon.

p.s Due to this amazing result i have know unblocked from my facebook. You can be my friend.

This has got to be my favourite FF posting of all time and will take a lot of beating!

PM1
-6th April 2008, 21:12
...that's brothers for you....:whistle:

UglyBug
-6th April 2008, 23:10
I remember vaguely another Rosowsky brotherly posting purporting that one of them had sustained a rather nasty injury...

As for CJWC medals - when was the last time we had one? Alex O'C?

Red
-7th April 2008, 08:09
CMS after poules;

23 - Sam 0.667, +8, 26
32 - James 0.5, -1, 19
46 - Curtis 0.333, -3, 19

Go Sam!

L64s should be happening nowish.

Red
-7th April 2008, 08:28
Sam and Curtis are fencing now. At the end of the first period, Curtis is 8-7 up against BAK USA and Sam is 8-6 up against LOW HKG.

Red
-7th April 2008, 08:35
Live results suggest two very close matches.
Unfortunately Sam and Curtis are both out - 15-13 and 15-12 respectively.

UglyBug
-7th April 2008, 09:14
James Honeybone through decisively 15-5. Drawn a Spaniard in the L32 who I've seen on the U20 circuit, but I don't think James has fenced him before.

Foilling Around
-7th April 2008, 09:23
James Honeybone through decisively 15-5. Drawn a Spaniard in the L32 who I've seen on the U20 circuit, but I don't think James has fenced him before.

The Spaniard is #1, but with the way these pools are worked out that could mean anything. The first seed in the MF yesterday went out in the L32, so here's hoping. When James is on fire he could beat anyone.

Red
-7th April 2008, 09:26
The Spaniard is #1, but with the way these pools are worked out that could mean anything. The first seed in the MF yesterday went out in the L32, so here's hoping. When James is on fire he could beat anyone.

The form book (U20 World rankings) say James should walk it. Currently 4-1 up.

Red
-7th April 2008, 09:30
8-2 up.

Australian
-7th April 2008, 09:35
LOPEZ MENDEZ Alvaro ESP 12 - 15 GBR HONEYBONE James

Red
-7th April 2008, 09:35
James just won 15-12 after a brilliant comeback by the other guy. He was 14-6 up....

Foilling Around
-7th April 2008, 09:36
Oh my nails - 14:7 brought back to 14:12 - had me worried for a while.

Good way to spend a non contact period!!

PM1
-7th April 2008, 09:46
CWE Sophie out 56 (first of the cut) and Jenny too (64). Hard luck girls. Caitlin qualified at 54.....keep going !!

Foilling Around
-7th April 2008, 09:59
CWE Sophie out 56 (first of the cut) and Jenny too (64). Hard luck girls. Caitlin qualified at 54.....keep going !!

There are some really vicious cuts this week, as close to 30% as you can get.

I find that really harsh, especially in the Cadets where the pre-event seeding can result in some "topsy turvy" seedings in to the DE. We have already seen that with the number 1 seed knocked out in the L32 in both the MF and MS.

A more lenient cut towards the 20% would be more appropriate.

Dalesman
-7th April 2008, 10:19
Well done Husayn. Go James
:)

Yea, well done Husayn and to his coach Adam Blight who worked all last week with him.

Is this the the first bronze we have won?

Red
-7th April 2008, 10:26
James must have been told something good during the break - he's gone from 8-5 down to 11-9 up.

Won 15-10 - that takes him into the L8

Australian
-7th April 2008, 10:27
HONEYBONE James GBR V15 D10 USA CHENEY Bryan



Into the 8!

Foilling Around
-7th April 2008, 10:28
Amazing - well done James.

I think James and Husayn were probably the 2 most disappointed Cadets in Turkey last year and I am sure that their learning experiences there were instrumental in their success this year.

Come on James - one more for a medal!!

And hard luck to Caitlin - another 2 years to go - use it as a springboard for next year.

Red
-7th April 2008, 10:30
Come on James - one more for a medal!!

Three more would be better :whistle:

DonnCarnage
-7th April 2008, 10:48
3rd???? Thats pathetic. Why didn't you come 1st!! I will be speaking to you serously how this terrible result came about! While rastaroso (aka ahmed) may be unblocking you from facebook for this miserable excuse of a result, I will be most definetly be blocking you until you are the senior world champion! I didnt stop fencing only to have my younger brothers fail at finishing off what I started!

P.S. Best result in rosowsky history EVER, fantastic - I ran up 14 flights of stairs to inform all my collegues at university, I was so happy I forgot we had a lift!!

DonnCarnage
-7th April 2008, 10:49
Good luck with the rest of the british team.

Foilling Around
-7th April 2008, 10:49
Just as an aside, there are over 100 Koreans called KIM on the FIE database! And only 18 people called SMITH

Red
-7th April 2008, 11:10
Out 15-7 according to the tableau.

Foilling Around
-7th April 2008, 11:19
A great effort James, it is measure of how our expectations have been raised that a fantastic L8 is slightly flat. Keep on raising expectations by your great results James.

Keith will be smiling from ear to ear when he talks to UKSport at the moment.

hokers
-7th April 2008, 12:40
Well done to Husayn and James, I assume both are entered for the Juniors as well?

Australian
-7th April 2008, 13:17
Well done to Husayn and James, I assume both are entered for the Juniors as well?

James is, but the junior foil team is Mepstead, Melia and Davis.

PM1
-7th April 2008, 13:18
Husayn no, James yes - oops, snap!!

wingnutLP
-7th April 2008, 13:23
Does anyone know where Husayan Fences?

pigeonmeister
-7th April 2008, 13:36
Salle Kiss- but maybe sheffield buccanneers also

PM1
-7th April 2008, 14:02
James must have been told something good during the break - he's gone from 8-5 down to 11-9 up.
I think that's called Tigger Power. I could be wrong...;)

Foilling Around
-7th April 2008, 14:13
Salle Kiss- but maybe sheffield buccanneers also

Both, lives in Sheffield, travels across to Manchester - which is why I acknowledged both Adam Blight and Robert Kiss earlier.

Rdb811
-7th April 2008, 14:24
Just as an aside, there are over 100 Koreans called KIM on the FIE database! And only 18 people called SMITH

Any Koreans not called Kim (or Park) ?

UglyBug
-7th April 2008, 15:51
There is a Korean referee called Tae Kwan Do...

Tubby
-7th April 2008, 16:10
Watching wireless epee!!! I had heard it was ready but did not think it would be on show this year.

Gangsta G
-7th April 2008, 18:09
Congratulations Husayn and his coaches and all the other Rosowskys, and to James and Jon and the rest of the Truro crew. I know that you are disappointed with a last 8 but to me that just shows fantastic ambition, determination, expetation and talent. It is easy to achieve your goals if you always aim low. Go get em in the juniors, mate!

rastaroso
-7th April 2008, 18:16
3rd???? Thats pathetic. Why didn't you come 1st!! I will be speaking to you serously how this terrible result came about! While rastaroso (aka ahmed) may be unblocking you from facebook for this miserable excuse of a result, I will be most definetly be blocking you until you are the senior world champion! I didnt stop fencing only to have my younger brothers fail at finishing off what I started!

P.S. Best result in rosowsky history EVER, fantastic - I ran up 14 flights of stairs to inform all my collegues at university, I was so happy I forgot we had a lift!!

Another amazing result, well done james. Shame cos i think he had in him to make a medal. But still congrats man. As for DonnCarnage as senior member of salle rosowsky you have been dropped from the team for your inadequate support for Husayn and replaced by Abdul Raheim Brown (who beat Robert Kiss and Adam Blight for the spot). Husayn trains at salle rosowsky mostly with me, and sheffiled and salle kiss. Well done to all competitors in the worlds team some great efforts and amazing results.

Foilling Around
-7th April 2008, 19:09
As for DonnCarnage as senior member of salle rosowsky you have been dropped from the team for your inadequate support for Husayn and replaced by Abdul Raheim Brown (who beat Robert Kiss and Adam Blight for the spot).

But surely Abdul Raheim Brown was on the team already!

Boo Boo
-7th April 2008, 20:00
L8 in CMS is a great result and, I am sure, just an indication of things to come from a talented young and ambitious fencer :)

The cuts did seem very harsh. Hope those who might be a little disappointed by their results use it as a learning experience to spur them onto even bigger and better results in future.

Very good luck to CWF and CME tomorrow :)

Boo

Foilling Around
-7th April 2008, 21:18
Very good luck to CWF and CME tomorrow :)

Boo

CWF could be wide open with no French, no Chinese and probably no Italians!

Good luck guys and gals!!

tigger
-7th April 2008, 22:23
thanks all for your kind words (& many texts!). ultimately L8 is very disappointing for james, which I feel is a good measure of his expectation & ambition.

fyi, the CMS seedings were messed up & james & illiasz were seeded as unranked fencers, instead of 4th & 2nd respectively. soproni-szabo was given his older brothers world junior ranking, so was seeded in the top 6 instead of halfway up the field! DT refused to change the draw...
illiasz (european champ) lost in the 32. puy (hun) was surprise champion.

looking forward to big results in junior sabre later this week

cheers all.

Jon

Gangsta G
-8th April 2008, 00:05
That's absolutely ridiculous. Ultimately I suppose everyone will have been effected but still... the pools at the Cadet Worlds can be random enough as it is due to the presence of so many 999 fencers, to mess the seedings up even further by making such a basic error... the mind boggles.

PM1
-8th April 2008, 10:20
OK - current positions (11.15 GB time)

CWF - classification after poules
Natasha Thomson 20
Andrea Pawel 40
Alex Craig 45 (first eliminated) - poo

CME - classification after poules
Jonothan May 10
Scott Chalmers 51
Ben White 61

all qualify

Jono and Scott had byes into L64
Ben won his 128

Well done and kKeep it up !!

PM1
-8th April 2008, 10:25
Andrea was beaten in her L64 15/6 by Epihphany, USA, Natasha has a bye to L32

TBennett
-8th April 2008, 11:33
Just having a look at the results and cant see any French entered in any of the weapons in the Cadets.. Anyone know why this might be? Obviously I cant say the same for the Juniors as there are no entry lists up..

cesh_fencing
-8th April 2008, 12:25
Both remaining girls out in L32..

cesh_fencing
-8th April 2008, 12:27
James May into L32, others out..

Tubby
-8th April 2008, 12:54
Can I believe what I'm seeing? A 12 year old winning 15-5 in CWF to get into the medals.
Kiefer USA beat Moskovska UKR

PM1
-8th April 2008, 12:56
Crikey !! You/re on the spot, but you've had a few shocks recently....:whistle:

pinkelephant
-8th April 2008, 13:05
James May into L32, others out..

I think you'll find JAMES May on Top Gear. This one's Jonathan.

UglyBug
-8th April 2008, 13:08
Can I believe what I'm seeing? A 12 year old winning 15-5 in CWF to get into the medals.
Kiefer USA beat Moskovska UKR

Don't they have to be 13 to compete?

pinkelephant
-8th April 2008, 13:11
Not at cadet level. They have to be 13 to compete against ADULTS.

pinkelephant
-8th April 2008, 13:14
According to the date of birth on the FIE website she will be 14 in June.

Tubby
-8th April 2008, 13:20
Just having a look at the results and cant see any French entered in any of the weapons in the Cadets.. Anyone know why this might be? Obviously I cant say the same for the Juniors as there are no entry lists up..the general opinion is that the French think U17 a waste of time for the cost.

Tubby
-8th April 2008, 13:33
According to the date of birth on the FIE website she will be 14 in June.It was all the talk of the bleachers as well. Another urban myth put to bed.

Back to the fighting Jonny up 12-5 34 secs to go.

pinkelephant
-8th April 2008, 13:37
15-6 to Jonny. Now in the L16.

Tubby
-8th April 2008, 13:44
Another urban myth put to bed.Or not. On the entry sheet Lee Kiefer USA 15/6/1994.

cesh_fencing
-8th April 2008, 13:48
I think you'll find JAMES May on Top Gear. This one's Jonathan.

I stand corrected - by PM as usual...

Lee Spiers
-8th April 2008, 14:00
I have a site saved as a favourite at home but i cant rememer the address - its the one you can watch DE's live? sure its called "the Nahaw" or somthing but googlw wont find it?

anyone got a link?

PM1
-8th April 2008, 14:03
live.fie.ch/results

Lee Spiers
-8th April 2008, 14:08
nah thats not it, its a brilliant site with all the stats for international fencers and rankings.

its not the FIE site

pinkelephant
-8th April 2008, 14:19
www.nahouw.net

PM1
-8th April 2008, 14:29
sorry, that's how I've got there and just "seen" Jono get thru to the 8

pinkelephant
-8th April 2008, 14:29
Jonny through to the 8 15-12!

PM1
-8th April 2008, 14:39
the word on skype is that Jono is fencing in a very controlled manner.......:)

DonnCarnage
-8th April 2008, 15:27
Does anyone know where Husayan Fences?

From what I understand he trains in sheffield on mon, wed, thur in sheffield and sometimes on the weekend if his ahmed is around (which is rare). He trains on tuesday at Salle Kiss. Adam blight gives him private lessons on a weekly basis too.

pinkelephant
-8th April 2008, 15:30
Jonny out 15-14, having been 14-10 down. Hard luck - fantastic effort.

pigeonmeister
-8th April 2008, 15:30
May out in the L8 15-14 after being 14-10 down- great effort and super result. Bad luck in the end..

PM1
-8th April 2008, 15:31
jono out 14/15 - what a fight tho!! Pulled back from 12/8 down to 13/14 down. Phew!!

Well done Jonathan :not_worth fantastic end to this last season. I know you'd have preferred a couple more fights but.......

Stressed
-8th April 2008, 16:02
Well done Jonathan May.
An excellent way to finish your cadet carear.
I am so pleased for you that it all came to geather when it mattered the most.

pigeonmeister
-8th April 2008, 16:08
the general opinion is that the French think U17 a waste of time for the cost.

I don't really understand that- it's not exactly far (or expensive) for them to travel to Italy and every other year they have sent a very successful team.

Demonic
-8th April 2008, 17:08
well done Johnny.A great result and sounds like you fenced with alot of spirit to come back from 14-11 down despite losing.

PM1
-8th April 2008, 18:08
....and Jonathan's opponent has just won the championships, despite being kn****ed, and fencing an Italian in the final.:not_worth

Boo Boo
-8th April 2008, 18:28
Wow, another great result :)

(My employer has a thing about people logging on to non-work-related forums... but I think the ocassional glance at an official site (live.fie.ch) covering a major sporting event isn't too bad... ;) ).

Boo

KJK
-8th April 2008, 18:41
According to those watching it was a good match and exceptionally close. Did this guy also put Ben White out? Congrats to Jonny:not_worth

pigeonmeister
-8th April 2008, 21:11
You can watch the CMF, CMS, CWS, CWE finals on fencingchannel for free here:

http://www.fencingchannel.tv/cms/08ITA-JWCH-ACIRIALE.html

PM1
-8th April 2008, 22:20
According to those watching it was a good match and exceptionally close. Did this guy also put Ben White out? Congrats to Jonny:not_worth
yes

a league apart, but clattered, so i'm told.

pinkelephant
-8th April 2008, 22:31
You can watch the CMF, CMS, CWS, CWE finals on fencingchannel for free here:

http://www.fencingchannel.tv/cms/08ITA-JWCH-ACIRIALE.html

The ref for the WE didn't spot Briasco touching her guard with her other hand.

Why was the proper finals piste not used on the first day? No coloured strips off the sides.

Gangsta G
-8th April 2008, 23:51
Well done to Jonathon May. Another good result.

I have been about what Jon said about the MS poules being messed up. I have to say I find this pretty appaling. Can you imagine if FIFA messed up the draw for the World Cup? There would be a worldwide outcry... it would probably make the front page of most red-tops in this country.

GKB
-9th April 2008, 07:47
WS junior poule results - Kira 4/5 ranked 18, Katie 3/5 rank 35, Sophie 1/5 rank 62

fa266
-9th April 2008, 08:25
Well done Kira! Good luck to the GB girls for the rest of the day :)

GKB
-9th April 2008, 08:54
Katie out in 64 to Danilova, Kira through to L32:)

coachcarson
-9th April 2008, 10:00
OMG! Kira 8/6 up a the break. COME ON KIRA!!!!

coachcarson
-9th April 2008, 10:04
Kira out 15/11. Was on the edge of my seat all the way through that one. Well done Kira - great performance.

coachcarson
-9th April 2008, 10:58
Rebecca Ward out 15/14 in L16, so no Americans in this years final.

pinkelephant
-9th April 2008, 11:35
And the Pole who put Kira out, who was ranked 50 after the pools, is now in the semis.

All the boys out - Rhys and Marcus in the 128 and James in the 64, 15-14 after leading for most of the fight.

Mr WFFC
-9th April 2008, 14:37
Fun and games here this afternoon.

First Cerioni (sp?) the Italian coach was yellow carded in one fight, then black carded in another fight about 5mins later.

Then Minuto, Italian favorite and No 1 seed was KO'd in the L16 by an American (Gerek Meinhardt) 13-15.

Then a Korean received about 5 red cards because all his foils stopped working and it took a long time to get him one that did work.......it seems that all the other Koreans are left handed and he is right handed. He ended up losing a bout to an Argentinian he had looked like winning. The French team coaches sitting next to me couldn't believe what was happening.

rory
-9th April 2008, 16:32
First Cerioni (sp?) the Italian coach was yellow carded in one fight, then black carded in another fight about 5mins later.

Cerioni is not a man who's known for his self restraint ;)

Keith.A.Smith
-9th April 2008, 16:37
Dear All,

Been in Sicily and then on a school camp but been getting all the results by text.

Really well done to Huseyn Rosowsky on his Bronze medal, a superb result. Also fantastic results from Jonathan May 5th and James Honeybone 8th. To get a medal and two top 8 results in the World Cadet Championships is a great achievement.

Congratulations to all three fencers and their coaches.

Keith

Keith.A.Smith
-9th April 2008, 16:42
Dear All,

Next year may be the last Cadet World Champs and it will be held in Belfast and organised by BFA.

The FIE and many countries want to abolish the Cadet Worlds and just have in our case the European Cadets and then the Under 20 World Champs.

Keith

Evil Rock
-9th April 2008, 19:18
What!? That is wrong! Why abolish that sort of high standard competition?

Baldric
-9th April 2008, 20:33
What!? That is wrong! Why abolish that sort of high standard competition?

As I understand it, the argument is about cost. Lots of countries that participate in fencing are not as wealthy as Britain, and there have been problems finding host countries for a combined Cadet and Junior champs. Obviously, a Junior only competition would be less costly to run. Also remember that mostly families fund participation - we moan about the cost in this (incredibly wealthy) country - imagine how much harder that would be for the average family in a country with an GDP per head that is a tiny fraction of ours? Air fares and hotel bills don't decrease just because you come from a poorer country.

I think the argument runs - if you rich europeans can afford a a cadet competition, then you have one, but the rest of us will concentrate on the Jnrs and Snrs.

I think it would be a shame if this happened, but I can understand the pressures.

Baldric

Jan O'C
-10th April 2008, 08:10
MS - Alex 4/5
James 2/5
Maiyeron 2/5

Alex and James have byes through to 64. Maiyeron has just lost in 128.
James draw looks reasonable after tough Korean in 64. Alex has the draw from hell. Assuming he wins his 64 fight - also against a Korean and they're always hard fights, he has Aaron Szilagy (Hun) in the 32 who is this year's favourite to win. Unfortunately there were 3 on Szilagy's indicator and 3 on Alex's - how unlucky can you get. Still you've got to be in it to win it and if you want to win overall, you should be able to beat anyone.

PM1
-10th April 2008, 08:24
Thanks Jan - just about to log in to the live feed....good luck boys !!:D

PM1
-10th April 2008, 08:33
JWE - Sisi 3/3 9th
Corrina 2/3 33
Lizzie 1/4 80th

Not clear if Lizzie will have qualified yet - 103 girls, and severe cuts so far this week.

fingers crossed;) ;)

PM1
-10th April 2008, 08:35
JMS Stevie Fenwick 43, bye to L64

PM1
-10th April 2008, 08:45
JWE - Sisi 3/3 9th
Corrina 2/3 33
Lizzie 1/4 80th

Not clear if Lizzie will have qualified yet - 103 girls, and severe cuts so far this week.

fingers crossed;) ;)
JUST had another look at the classification after the poules, and it's changed.....

Sisi 7th, Corrina 21, Lizzie 62.....so all should be clear and thru.....unless I'm reading this incorrectly......

PM1
-10th April 2008, 09:04
Just ignore me.....I've sussed what is going on now.

Alex is thru to the 32

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 09:15
Lizzie 2/6, Corinna 4/6 and Sissi 6/6 but some pools still going on.

PM1
-10th April 2008, 09:21
Lizzie 2/6, Corinna 4/6 and Sissi 6/6 but some pools still going on.
....indeed.....Corrina won one V1.....:eek:

Jan O'C
-10th April 2008, 09:40
James out in 64. Most going through to seed but one or two shake ups occurring. Alex fences Szilagy at 11.15 our time I think - fingers crossed.
Good luck to WE.

PM1
-10th April 2008, 09:46
RIGHT....Albini 5th, Lawrence 34th, Highton 66th. All qualified.

Good luck girls, and good luck Alex.

UglyBug
-10th April 2008, 10:14
This live result feed is terrible for my nerves... Jan, I don't even imagine how you cope!

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 10:16
Lizzie out 15-11 in the 128.

Alex 8-3 up at the break

Gangsta G
-10th April 2008, 10:17
This live result feed is terrible for my nerves... Jan, I don't even imagine how you cope!It's not working for me....

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 10:21
Alex wins 15-13, so now in the L16.

pigeonmeister
-10th April 2008, 10:22
Alex wins 15-13-awesome result!

Australian
-10th April 2008, 10:22
SZILAGYI Aron HUN 13 - 15 GBR O'CONNELL Alexander

Gangsta G
-10th April 2008, 10:23
YES! GO ALEX! Damn live results why is it not working for me?

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 10:23
Why are you on the forum anyway, GangstaG. 3CT tells me you're supposed to be revising. I, of course, am in the middle of the Easter holiday.

Neil Brown
-10th April 2008, 10:24
Look again.

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 10:24
Result has now come up the other way round - 15-14 against Alex. Must have been video replay?

Australian
-10th April 2008, 10:24
er what?

SZILAGYI Aron HUN V15 - D14 GBR O'CONNELL Alexander

pigeonmeister
-10th April 2008, 10:28
A bitter pill.....

Bugger

Plymouth Fencer
-10th April 2008, 10:28
It's the only logical explanation, that there was a successful challenge.

What a way to go.
Such a shame as well because Alex must have worked so hard in that fight.

Gangsta G
-10th April 2008, 10:37
Oh no. :( What a shame.

PS PE - I haven't started revision yet, I still have 4 essays to write first! Now that all the GBR sabreurs are out I can get down to it (sorry epeeists, nothing personal! Best of luck!)

Jan O'C
-10th April 2008, 10:40
I've just spoken to Tim in Sicily. They are all devastated. Alex was 8-3 up at break and then 12-7 up but Szaligy pulled back to 14-13 to Alex. Last hit was given to Alex after ref had consulted the screen carefully. Alex was overjoyed and then Szaligy challenged. 4 other refs came over and started interfering and having their say including the Hungarian and it was changed to 14-14. Szaligy won the last hit. Obviously we are all really upset. Clearly from 12-7 Alex should have finished it but sometimes easier said than done. Either way, it looks as if he won but yet again politics interferes. If you have a ref and 2 others to look at the replay, the Hungarian ref should not be allowed to get involved - he's supposed to be independent.

Plymouth Fencer
-10th April 2008, 10:45
That sounds like a farce. The president should be allowed to make his own decision with the replay, not have four others give their opinion as well!

Too many cooks after all, spoil the broth.

Hard luck on Alex, not that that really makes him feel any better.

Tubby
-10th April 2008, 10:55
Can some one help me? Video challenge on call at 14-13. ref awards hit to alex, riposte. Challenge by Hungarian. Hit over ruled. Video shows Alex retreating, goes out of shot, attack by Hungarian, his light comes on, alex's light comes on in that order. Ref gave riposte, you cannot see alex in shot, yet the ref the video ref (assisted by some other dude, who the hell was he?) over rules the call. Alex then has to get his head together after that and fight the 14-14 point. One of the most unjust things I have seen in a long long while, unless of course the video ref can over turn with no evidence.

Plymouth Fencer
-10th April 2008, 11:33
Corinna 4-2 up in the WE after the first period!

Come on girl, do it for us Plymothians!!

Plymouth Fencer
-10th April 2008, 11:39
Corinna through 15-7 in the second period!

She got a move on in that fight! Haha.

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 11:39
She now has Ewa Nelip - tough draw.

Plymouth Fencer
-10th April 2008, 11:42
Hmmmmm, the second seed. You could say that.

But she beat the top seed before at a Worlds if I remember correctly (she'll kill if I'm wrong!) so this should be a walk in the park!!

We're made of strong stuff down 'ere!

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 11:46
It would be a tough draw whatever seed she was. She is very impressive to watch. Not that Corinna isn't, of course!

Plymouth Fencer
-10th April 2008, 11:46
And the top seed has already been put out, so it just goes to show.....

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 12:09
Website seems to have stalled.

hokers
-10th April 2008, 12:27
Can some one help me? Video challenge on call at 14-13. ref awards hit to alex, riposte. Challenge by Hungarian. Hit over ruled. Video shows Alex retreating, goes out of shot, attack by Hungarian, his light comes on, alex's light comes on in that order. Ref gave riposte, you cannot see alex in shot, yet the ref the video ref (assisted by some other dude, who the hell was he?) over rules the call. Alex then has to get his head together after that and fight the 14-14 point. One of the most unjust things I have seen in a long long while, unless of course the video ref can over turn with no evidence.

Where can we see the video?

Pretty outrageous if several other presidents get involved, moreso if one of them is from one fencer's home nation.

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 12:30
Back up now. Sissi has gone out to Toth, 15-13.

Barry Paul
-10th April 2008, 12:43
The process for video reviewing. There is a hit. Referee awards it or watches the replay which automatically is scrolling on the monitor in front of him. From this he can decide the hit. Once awarded the fencers can ask for a second opinion. The referee now walks back to the second monitor at which there is one or two other referees. They then confer and a final decision is made.

I cannot comment if there was outside influence in Alexs case, but what happened is as per the rules.

In a fight the day before in an important hit the same thing happened but the referee stood his ground and after about 5 minutes the hit was annulled and not awarded either way.

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 13:24
Corinna has gone out 15-9 to Nelip.

GKB
-10th April 2008, 13:52
Jan, we have video of the disputed hit - and also a close up video of the video replay - v strange...looks like there was only a camera shot of Szilagyi and not of Alex. Hope Alex and David got to see the replay.

Lee Spiers
-10th April 2008, 14:33
Corinna has gone out 15-9 to Nelip.

Poo..

PM1
-10th April 2008, 14:38
Poo..
indeed.....:(

Tubby
-10th April 2008, 16:19
but what happened is as per the rules. The process maybe per the rules (interference excepted) can you overturn a ruling when the video does not show both fencers and the bit the ref calls is not shown on the video?

Jan O'C
-10th April 2008, 19:11
It doesn't really matter whether you can overturn the ruling or not if you can't see the whole thing, the fact is that the ref did. He gave in to the pressure from the Hungarian ref and nothing could be done about it by the time anyone could complain.

On another note, if cadet fencers have worked hard all season to get a good Junior ranking so that they will get a good pool at Cadet level, you would not expect the organisers to mess it up and assign everyone the wrong rankings - but they did! James Honeybone should have been one of the top seeds in Cadet MS but ended up in a dreadful poule because several of the top fencers were allocated the wrong ranking (including him). The organisers failed to post the poules at the correct time so they were first seen in the evening prior to the event rather than at lunch time. Linda tried to contact the organisers but couldn't so went in early to sort it out on the morning James was due to fence and they told her it was too late to do anything about it, they were very sorry and did hope it didn't spoil James' chances! This was a serious joke. As it transpired, James got L8 but I know he had hoped for a medal and this could well have been the difference.

Bearing in mind the time and money fencers and their parents put into international fencing, such a cavalier attitude is disgraceful.

So what 'can be done' and what 'is done' are not always the same thing in fencing as most fencers know.

Anyway, Tim says Alex is now very philosophical about it all. He knows he fenced really well and he knows these things happen. It would be impossible to carry on fencing if you couldn't cope with the unfairness that fencing throws your way on a regular basis, particularly at international level. He also knows he should have finished it off earlier - easier said than done sometimes.

Grace/Kira, Tim and David come home tomorrow so I don't know if you'll get a chance to show them the video but Alex is there til Monday. It would be interesting to see it even though nothing can be done now. Thanks everso.

pinkelephant
-10th April 2008, 19:18
It doesn't really matter whether you can overturn the ruling or not if you can't see the whole thing, the fact is that the ref did. He gave in to the pressure from the Hungarian ref and nothing could be done about it by the time anyone could complain.

On another note, if cadet fencers have worked hard all season to get a good Junior ranking so that they will get a good pool at Cadet level, you would not expect the organisers to mess it up and assign everyone the wrong rankings - but they did! James Honeybone should have been one of the top seeds in Cadet MS but ended up in a dreadful poule because several of the top fencers were allocated the wrong ranking (including him). The organisers failed to post the poules at the correct time so they were first seen in the evening prior to the event rather than at lunch time. Linda tried to contact the organisers but couldn't so went in early to sort it out on the morning James was due to fence and they told her it was too late to do anything about it, they were very sorry and did hope it didn't spoil James' chances! This was a serious joke. As it transpired, James got L8 but I know he had hoped for a medal and this could well have been the difference.

Bearing in mind the time and money fencers and their parents put into international fencing, such a cavalier attitude is disgraceful.

So what 'can be done' and what 'is done' are not always the same thing in fencing as most fencers know.

Anyway, Tim says Alex is now very philosophical about it all. He knows he fenced really well and he knows these things happen. It would be impossible to carry on fencing if you couldn't cope with the unfairness that fencing throws your way on a regular basis, particularly at international level. He also knows he should have finished it off earlier - easier said than done sometimes.

Grace/Kira, Tim and David come home tomorrow so I don't know if you'll get a chance to show them the video but Alex is there til Monday. It would be interesting to see it even though nothing can be done now. Thanks everso.

Remember what you once said to me, Jan - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Keith.A.Smith
-10th April 2008, 20:04
Dear All,

I would like to see the video if at all possible.

Linda texted me to tell me what had happened and it sounds to me as if it has been a bit of a free for all on ther videos, which is simply not the FIE rules for video replays.

I gather David thought the replay decision was correct but would appreciate hearing from him too.

Keith

GKB
-10th April 2008, 20:56
Hi Jan, we have the video and will show it to Alex. Best Regards - he fenced really well and should have won.:mad:

pinkelephant
-11th April 2008, 08:59
JME David 4/6, Lukas and Gareth 2/6 each. Second wave of pools now on.

pinkelephant
-11th April 2008, 09:07
The provisional ranking list is bizarre - it's got two 4/6s, including David, below all the 3/6 and 1/2s. A bug in Engarde?

Championnats du Monde Juniors-Cadets
Epee Masculine Juniors
Acireale
Le 11 avril 2008

Résultats provisoires (116/130)

Rg Nom Prénom Nation Club Vic/match Ind. Td Groupe 1 PETERDI Andras HUN 6/6 21 26 2 FERRARIS Luca ITA 6/6 17 30 3 PROKHOROV Dimitry ISR 6/6 16 30 3 SUKHOV Pavel RUS 6/6 16 30 5 TRAGER Matthew ITA 6/6 15 30 6 HASAN Fahed KUW 6/6 13 27 7 GAROZZO Enrico ITA 2/2 9 10 8 NYCZ Mateusz POL 2/2 8 10 9 ANZIANO Santiago ARG 2/2 5 10 9 OTSUKI Tomoya JPN 2/2 5 10 11 CASNY Dietmar AUT 2/2 4 10 12 UZUNAY Mert TUR 1/1 4 5 12 BUDAI Daniel HUN 1/1 4 5 14 JIAO Yunlong CHN 2/2 3 9 15 ROSELLO Pau ESP 1/1 3 5 15 ROKOSZ Lukasz POL 1/1 3 5 17 SPAUTZ Falk GER 1/1 2 5 17 VON PLATEN Victor SWE 1/1 2 5 17 TEIXEIRA Miguel POR 1/1 2 5 17 KRAITS Maxim ISR 1/1 2 5 21 NIKOLIC Luka SRB 1/1 1 5 21 SEIDL Julian CZE 1/1 1 5 21 TATAROGLU Berk TUR 1/1 1 5 24 ALAA EL DIN FAYZ Ayman EGY 1/1 1 4 25 JORGENSEN Philippe DEN 5/6 13 29 26 VONEN Joakim NOR 5/6 11 27 27 GANTSEVICH Igor CAN 5/6 11 26 28 BLASZYCK Alexandre FRA 5/6 10 28 29 NICA Daniel ROU 5/6 10 26 30 WANG Feng CHN 5/6 7 22 31 ALIMZHANOV Enver KAZ 4/6 10 28 32 PYO Jung Woo KOR 4/6 9 27 33 MESSMER Tobias SUI 4/6 8 26 34 HAWROT James USA 4/6 8 25 35 YI Ye CHN 4/6 7 26 36 ANTROPOV Viktor EST 4/6 6 25 37 KURBANOV Ruslan KAZ 4/6 5 25 38 BOREYKO Denys UKR 4/6 5 23 39 GARDNER Karl CAN 4/6 4 25 40 REINDAHL Kasper DEN 4/6 4 24 41 TRAN Te-Mao GER 4/6 2 18 42 BIDOVEC Jan SLO 4/6 0 24 43 FRENCH Peter USA 3/6 6 25 44 SLOWIACZEK Jozef AUS 3/6 6 23 45 SON Hee Tae KOR 1/2 4 9 45 ESTRADA Ketziel PUR 1/2 4 9 47 YERGLER Jonathan USA 3/6 3 20 48 GRUBER Christopher AUT 3/6 2 25 48 JOSHUA KOH I-Jie MAS 3/6 2 25 48 BAE Sang Hyun KOR 3/6 2 25 51 DE VRIES Matthijs NED 1/2 2 8 51 BLINOV Jevgeni EST 1/2 2 8 53 PITRA Pavel CZE 1/2 1 8 54 ZUPANCIC David SLO 1/2 1 7 55 HIRANO Yoshiki JPN 1/2 0 8 55 LAHTINEN Alexander FIN 1/2 0 8 57 TRUBACHEV Alexey KAZ 1/2 0 7 57 BROEKMAN Mick NED 1/2 0 7 59 SENDUT Emir TUR 4/6 -1 22 60 GREGORY David GBR 4/6 -4 21 61 SILINS Arturs LAT 3/6 2 25 62 POKORNY Richard CZE 3/6 2 19 63 AREDE Pedro POR 3/6 1 21 64 GAISIN Ramil RUS 3/6 -1 24 65 SANTOS Joao Pedro POR 3/6 -1 22 66 MIRZAEI Mohammad Ali QAT 1/2 -1 8 66 DA SILVA SOUZA Flavio SUI 1/2 -1 8 66 KOK MANCHENG Kelvyn MAS 1/2 -1 8 69 AZIZOV Elmar EST 1/2 -1 7 70 NICKEL Rolf CHI 1/2 -1 6 71 FERAGE Thibault BEL 1/2 -2 6 72 SAMUELSSON Anton SWE 1/2 -3 6 73 MCDONALD Andries RSA 3/6 -5 19 74 AL DAWOOD Aqeel KSA 2/6 -3 22 75 DE METS Bert BEL 2/6 -3 18 76 SVELNYS Ramunas LTU 2/6 -4 22 77 STOEV Martin BUL 2/6 -4 21 78 KUHLMEY Lukas GBR 2/6 -5 22 79 THOMAS Gareth GBR 2/6 -6 21 80 LAMBERT Mykael CAN 2/6 -7 19 81 CARRILLO Omar MEX 2/6 -8 20 82 ASHKANANI Faisal KUW 2/6 -9 19 83 ALVAREZ Juan Jose GUA 2/6 -9 16 84 BOREL Yannick FRA 2/6 -11 14 85 HARUTYUNYAN Spartak ARM 1/6 -5 20 86 CIPAR Stefan SVK 1/6 -10 17 86 GASPAR Laszlo Gedeon ARG 1/6 -10 17 86 GINIS Aristeidis GRE 1/6 -10 17 89 GARCIA GARCIA Gustavo Adolfo VEN 1/6 -12 17 90 BONILLA Rostyn VEN 1/6 -12 16 91 SAROYAN Hakob ARM 1/6 -12 15 92 BARGERBOS Arno NED 1/6 -15 13 93 MARINOV Kiril BUL 1/6 -17 10 94 SEEVE Teemu FIN 0/1 -1 4 94 VELIKANOV Alexander RUS 0/1 -1 4 96 MAKIYENKO Yevgeniy UKR 0/2 -2 8 97 VON PLATEN Philip SWE 0/2 -2 6 98 GARCIA MIRALLES Esteban ESP 0/1 -2 3 98 HILLESTAD Ludvig NOR 0/1 -2 3 98 BOYADZHIEV Kristian BUL 0/1 -2 3 101 ALLEN Robert RSA 0/1 -3 2 101 BOJTE Szabolcs HUN 0/1 -3 2 101 RODRIGUEZ GONZALEZ Pablo ESP 0/1 -3 2 101 AL-HALYU Abdullah KSA 0/1 -3 2 101 SJANITA Jurijs LAT 0/1 -3 2 106 COURTOIS Romain FRA 0/1 -4 1 107 MARKULIS Aleksejs LAT 0/2 -5 5 108 HANSEN Carl Johan DEN 0/1 -5 0 109 KREINBUCHER Juergen AUT 0/2 -6 4 110 AL-BANALI Arfan KSA 0/6 -7 21 111 SAYARI Ali Ibrahim QAT 0/2 -7 3 112 PINTO Santiago COL 0/2 -10 0 113 ASHURY Taher IRI 0/6 -13 17 114 TAM Ka Kit HKG 0/6 -15 15 114 FONG Kiu HKG 0/6 -15 15 116 ILAH Md Hafizzi BRU 0/6 -20 9

Document Engarde - 11/04/2008 11:02:53

jennigoodman
-11th April 2008, 09:11
Isn't that because not all the poules hae been completed? The completed ones are classed above the other ones, until they are all done??

pinkelephant
-11th April 2008, 09:19
No - if you look carefully, you'll see they are intermingled. They've now put pool 10 in and it's sorted correctly. Weird.

UglyBug
-11th April 2008, 09:23
Do we not have a junior women's foil team?

pinkelephant
-11th April 2008, 09:54
No. Nobody qualified.

Jan O'C
-11th April 2008, 10:31
Remember what you once said to me, Jan - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Indeed, you just have days like yesterday when you wonder if all the effort's worth it but for the fencers I guess it must be or they wouldn't want to do it would they! And let's face it, for those fencing at international level, their lives would be much simpler if they didn't fence (and try and combine this with academic study/social life etc) so it must be worth it to them.

pinkelephant
-11th April 2008, 10:44
Looks like Lukas and Gareth just missed the cut - also Robert Allen (RSA)

Jan O'C
-11th April 2008, 10:49
Dear All,

I would like to see the video if at all possible.

Linda texted me to tell me what had happened and it sounds to me as if it has been a bit of a free for all on ther videos, which is simply not the FIE rules for video replays.

I gather David thought the replay decision was correct but would appreciate hearing from him too.

Keith

Keith, I will ask David to speak to you about it. Grace R is the only person I know who has a video of what went on so perhaps she can kindly let you see it at some point? What's done is done now but if the ref was happy to give the hit after looking at the video and so were the video judges then the Hungarian ref certainly had no right to become involved and should be reprimanded accordingly for clearly breaking the rules. I sincerely hope he's not going to Beijing as an independent ref!!!

Grace, thanks for your comment & for agreeing to show Alex the video. Well done to Kira on Wed and good luck for the team event.

cesh_fencing
-11th April 2008, 11:03
Looks like Lukas and Gareth just missed the cut - also Robert Allen (RSA)

They seem to be doing a full 30% cut after the poules so when there are poules of 7 you have to have a really good indicator to get through with 2 wins.. The 3 of them just 1, 2 and 3 hits from scraping through..

Gareth and Robert do both have a couple more years at this age-group so they know what level they need to get to now for next year.

David Gregory has Courtois of France in the 128 - Tough draw as he is 28th on the Junior World Rankings and was a Semi finalist at Nimes JWC a few weeks ago. Good Luck to David...

cesh_fencing
-11th April 2008, 11:39
David went out 15-7..

Mens epee does seem to get really tough when you get past Cadet level.

PM1
-11th April 2008, 15:05
Lukas and Gareth 1st and 5th eliminated respectively - tough. Good luck in the team, boys.

KJK
-11th April 2008, 16:03
Lukas was devastated-- so close too going through!!!. Two of his poule are now in the L8. He also has one further year as a Junior, so hopefully he can come away from this much the wiser and start preparing for next year. I do hope they have a good run in the team competition. Men's epee at this level and senior is a particularly hard discipline as cesh_fencing points out, but I do feel that we have some good juniors next year so here's hoping.

Foilling Around
-11th April 2008, 18:23
Husayn you absolute legend knew you had it in ya our kid. Finally a rosowsky breakthrough and at the biggest stage. May this be the start of great things to come brov and for us all inshallah. Well done from all the boys Ricky, Cookie, Jeff, Mark Owen and Ziemek. Rest hard see you soon.

p.s Due to this amazing result i have know unblocked from my facebook. You can be my friend.

As seen on daughter's Facebook page.

"Husayn Rosowsky and Ahmed Rosowsky are now friends"

Keith.A.Smith
-11th April 2008, 20:44
Dear Jan,

The Hungarian referee was not involved at al. David says he was back at the hotel. The man who interved was Ioan Pop, the FIE International Technical director.

I am going to call him once they are back from Italy.

Keith

Jan O'C
-11th April 2008, 21:10
Keith, Yes, I spoke to David when I picked him and Tim up from the airport tonight and I asked him to call you about it.
Tim had told me over the phone that the ref was Hungarian but actually this chap is Romanian as you know. Either way, he was only watching the fight and the video replay showed Szylagi's move but not Alex's - he was off the screen. Basically Puop bullied the ref and the video refs into seeing it from his perspective which could not be checked on the video replay. This is just not on, whoever he may be (and yes, I know he's M. Roch's second in command). He has power over them and thus they are not going to stand against him on a subjective decision - this is a blatant misuse of his power.
David says the hit was Alex's - he can see what Puop meant in the way that he was phrasing it but David didn't agree and the video couldn't support what Puop was saying. Clearly David couldn't get involved because of what you and Graham had told him re his situation.
Thank you for deciding to speak to Puop, not that it can make any difference to the result but the rules should be agreed for the future. One might assume that if it can't be seen on video then the ref's decision should stand because he should be in the best position and at that level he should be sufficiently capable - if not he shouldn't be there.

Foilling Around
-11th April 2008, 22:18
Seems like the kind of unseemly mess that video refereeing was meant to avoid. This in turn was Mons Roche's way of stopping fencing being kicked out of the Olympics for being too subjective.

So in essence the 2IC of the FIE - in effect - is working against the interests of fencing.

I am confused, if the referee has given a hit then the only was it can be over-ruled is via the video replay. If the video replay does not show the action then the hit should stand. Surely if the referee is influenced to change his mind by another person then you have the right to call a DT. The referee should have to show the DT what evidence he used to change his mind, not just the opinion of a 3rd party.

I realise that even if I am right, then it is not that easy in the middle of the Junior Worlds, but am I right in principle. (Having never refereed with a video)

Barry Paul
-12th April 2008, 07:36
What ever happen in this particular case I would say there were greater failures during this event including incorrect seeding, poor posting of bouts leading to fencers being disqualified, the pointless use of wireless from the 32, which should be left to the last 8. (more delays in the event than if spools had been used;one Korean getting 5 red cards as his foils failed (which were checked by the officials prior to commencement of fencing.))

With regard to video replay what ever it's faults and ongoing problems it results in a much fairer result, elimination of bribery and out right cheating. Ioan Pop is one of the good guys, what ever happened was because he believed his interpretation was corrected.

Nothing will change the result, in the end Alex's should have closed the fight out when he was in the lead. Being robbed (if he was?) of one hit happens, its called fencing.

JackSparrow
-12th April 2008, 08:53
Here is a link to an interview with Ioan Pop posted yesterday. It's not about Alex but he does talk in length about new technology in fencing.

http://www.fencing.net/about/features/ioan-pop-interview.html

The Junior boy's foil team just beat Argentina (who were seeded higher than them) 45-25. Their reward is to face Italy in the last 16.

wear wanderers
-12th April 2008, 11:21
Bad luck boys foil - we´re a bit sad, visiting parents in Spain and watching the live results service !!!!!!!

Red
-12th April 2008, 11:33
WS team beat Australia 45/7 (ouch!) and then lost to China 45/29 in the last 16 to finish 13th.
No play-offs for places? Is this normal?

Foilling Around
-12th April 2008, 13:16
Do we not have a junior women's foil team?


No. Nobody qualified.

But there are fencers with no qualifying results, or a half qualifying result, fencing in some of the other weapons in the individual and team.

And I know that it is entirely within the selection policy rules to allow a none qualified fencer to compete in a weapon where there are other qualified fencers so as to make up a team.

That doesn't make it any easier to swallow however!

Foilling Around
-12th April 2008, 13:20
With regard to video replay what ever it's faults and ongoing problems it results in a much fairer result, elimination of bribery and out right cheating. Ioan Pop is one of the good guys, what ever happened was because he believed his interpretation was corrected.

Nothing will change the result, in the end Alex's should have closed the fight out when he was in the lead. Being robbed (if he was?) of one hit happens, its called fencing.

Accepted, but he should have known better. Can you imagine the technical director of FIFA running onto the pitch in the World Cup Quarter final and insist that the referee changes his mind and give a penalty!

Keith.A.Smith
-12th April 2008, 20:37
Dear All,

The DT no longer has any role in refereeing. The FIE appointed refereeing delegates decide all refereeing issues. I was in this role at the World University Games and wil be one of he delegates in Beijing for the Olympic Games.

Ioan Pop is the FIE Technical Director and may have been asked to assist in this role having been an Olympic Finlaist at sabre and also experienced with the video replay system. I agree with Barry that he is one of the good guys in fencing.

I intend to talk to him when he gets back from Italy.

David was in a difficult position as he has been selected as a referee for Beijing and was worried he might be in trouble if he openly argued with the FIE.

I know the whole issue of the video replay system and who can do what was going to be discussed again, not leasst as the FIE want no scandals in Beijing.

Concerning soe teams haveing part qualified fencers, those who were not totally qualified were propsed by the weapon committees and then approved by the IC.

Hope that al helps,

Keith

pinkelephant
-13th April 2008, 08:20
Men's sabre team has just gone out to Korea by 45-44. Ouch.

pinkelephant
-13th April 2008, 08:50
Women's epee team beat Holland 45-30 - now have Hungary.

Boo Boo
-13th April 2008, 09:26
Good luck to the WE team :)

Boo

pinkelephant
-13th April 2008, 10:17
Out 45-42

pinkelephant
-14th April 2008, 20:51
From the American forum (Capt. Slo-Mo)

"High drama in Eurosportland today in junior team action. First, WS:

"Round of 16, Germany and Italy are tied, 44-all. On the adjacent strip, France and Ukraine are also knotted at 44-each. Both sets of fencers fired off the line in synchronization, there are frantic multiple actions, and two sets of double lights. France wins! Germany wins! But wait, it can’t be that easy…

"Italian CT Magro fires out of the team box like he’s been shot from a circus cannon. Within seconds, he’s literally inches from the director’s proboscis, waving his arms like a frenetic beekeeper who has just realized he;s in the middle of an Africanized Bee swarm without his mesh hood..

"If anyone ever hears Magro complain about being characterized as “getting in the ref’s face,” simple intone: “Acireale. 2008.”

"They go to the replay. US ref Ariana Klinkov is the replay official, and she upholds the call. Both Italian coaches are ballistic. Magro makes a few more histrionic gestures of polite disagreement, and storms from the floor. The Italian fencers dolefully sit at the laptop long after the official have left the strip, watching the final point over and over.

"On the French side, joy turns to agony as the Ukrainians call for a replay. Sure enough, the call is overturned. French anchor Berden falls to the floor, and for a moment, appears to be having an epilectic seizure. Once she recovers, she strips and hurls her mask and glove. Berden refuses to unhook, and for the next 55 minutes, stands on the piste, refusing to yield. The French look for anyone in a blue blazer to drag to the replay laptop. The French team camps out in in the box. An official appeal is filed, the substance of which is unclear. More blazers converge. After nearly an hour, a paper is delivered from the DT, the two teams retake the piste, and the overturn is upheld. They salute and shake hands…something Berder appeared to fail to do after the replay."

Boo Boo
-14th April 2008, 21:01
There are lots of good things about video replay, but the current system appears to require some "refinement" :whistle:

Wasn't it introduced to make fencing more spectator friendly? Scenes like this could drive even the most enthusiastic and knowledgable spectators away in droves. A few episodes like this will not be looked upon favourably by the IOC or the general viewing public at Beijing... :(

Boo

gbm
-14th April 2008, 21:20
(referring to quote posted by Pinkelephant)

Wasn't this why video replay was supposed to be used as a routine whenever two lights come on and could determine the final hit?

Skartha
-14th April 2008, 21:57
Wasn't it introduced to make fencing more spectator friendly? Scenes like this could drive even the most enthusiastic and knowledgable spectators away in droves. A few episodes like this will not be looked upon favourably by the IOC or the general viewing public at Beijing... :(

Boo

Actually...bear in mind that half the people who watch the 6 Nations do so to see if there's a fight on the pitch* ;)

But I trivialise. Very bad form, and it wouldn't do the sport's image any good to see its finest athletes arguing like schoolchildren on international television.

* = I don't really think this, but there is definitely a market for unsightly punch-ups. Don't want that to happen to fencing, though, what with the bits of metal and all.

Tubby
-15th April 2008, 07:53
Landed yesterday via Rome and Heathrow (omg), no fencing bag! Does anyone know if Alitalia's 0871 number is a premium call line? Having camped on for 10 minutes this morning without anyone picking up it occurred to me I may be funding this bankrupt airline.

Tubby
-15th April 2008, 08:15
Out 45-42This doesn't tell the full tale. GBR had it in them to take Hungary. This with Corinna feeling dreadful with a cold as well (and a poor very red nose (I shall not publish the photo)). Hungary were very worried, they had a bye and came and warmed up in the tent GBR were fencing NDL in and watched the match from halfway through. Then on piste our girls fenced very well but as we all know this is a game of millimeters and micro seconds. We missed a few attacks then ended up with doubles on the remise and that was probably the difference between winning and losing that match.

tigger
-16th April 2008, 11:37
The French 'sit-in' in Women's Sabre was very entertaining...perhaps we should start being a little more obnoxious as a nation..?

The Men's Sabre 44-45 to Korea was a nail-biter.

We started very poorly, 5-1, 5-2, 5-2. Anthony Crutchett started the fight-back with a 6-5 win over the World Junior champion Gu, before O' Connell scored 8 in the next match to close within 7. Going into Honeybone's last fight we were trailing by 9, 35-26, before James found his most creative and dynamic fencing to destroy Kim 14-4 and give us a 40-39 lead into the last fight. At 43-41 to Alex (over World Champ Gu), we had two bad calls (one attack-counter attack given as simultaneous, and one beat attack from the Korean which slammed into the guard given as 'attack touche'), but no slow motion replay in the L16 of the team...at 44-all one light riposte for Gu, and heart-break for the 4 GB fencers who had performed brilliantly for 2/3rds of the match.

Jan O'C
-16th April 2008, 12:49
A huge thanks to Tigger who did a brilliant job of coaching at the Worlds. It's the first time I've seen fencers be given a sheet as soon as they got there detailing the times of their training/lessons each day so everyone knew what was expected and what was going on. Fantastic and a definite must for future championships!

The boys team were extremely unlucky, which was doubly sad for Alex after the fiasco in the individual but they are a great team together. Just a shame that now Alex and Anthony move out of Juniors so we won't be able to see them in action and let them show what they could really do together.

tigger
-16th April 2008, 16:41
I hope we'll be seeing more of this team at senior level in the not too distant future...they are fantastic outfit. Talented, fit, committed, hungry and positive. I'm sure they will develop into our best sabre team for many years

Jan O'C
-16th April 2008, 16:55
I'll second that thought. Fantastic team spirit between them.

Tubby
-16th April 2008, 20:29
The Men's Sabre 44-45 to Korea was a nail-biter.

We started very poorly, 5-1, 5-2, 5-2. Anthony Crutchett started the fight-back with a 6-5 win over the World Junior champion Gu, before O' Connell scored 8 in the next match to close within 7. Going into Honeybone's last fight we were trailing by 9, 35-26, before James found his most creative and dynamic fencing to destroy Kim 14-4 and give us a 40-39 lead into the last fight. At 43-41 to Alex (over World Champ Gu), we had two bad calls (one attack-counter attack given as simultaneous, and one beat attack from the Korean which slammed into the guard given as 'attack touche'), but no slow motion replay in the L16 of the team...at 44-all one light riposte for Gu, and heart-break for the 4 GB fencers who had performed brilliantly for 2/3rds of the match. Spot the deliberate mistake.

D'Artignan
-16th April 2008, 20:57
Glueboy must be something special indeed if he can hand over to the last bout with 41 points....:whistle:

pinkelephant
-16th April 2008, 22:44
Glueboy must be something special indeed if he can hand over to the last bout with 41 points....:whistle:

It could happen if a red card were awarded with the last hit - for a second crossing of the feet by Kim, for example, as Glueboy scored.

Tubby
-17th April 2008, 12:39
It could happen if a red card were awarded with the last hit - for a second crossing of the feet by Kim, for example, as Glueboy scored.
:eek:, I was going to say "how anorak is that" but just have to give it up :not_worth instead.

Another photo to look at. Jonny goes 2 nil up, though spare a thought for Gareth a few days later when he went 3 down in his poule fight before putting his mask on and loses the fight 5-3 (and we know how assiduous Neale is for checking weapons before fights) and it transpires that the weights were too heavy ... Gareth misses the cut ... can you Adam and Eve it?