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NLSC Sabreur
-7th November 2003, 15:00
I have a question somebody will know the answer to.

From the page

http://www.britishfencing.com/crb.html

There is a charge of £32.00 for professional coaches clearance.

How much and how often do you have to pay a coach before they count as professional? The two coaches at NLSC that sometimes get paid have full time jobs unconnected with fencing. Does any financial payment count?

I phoned up to get some forms directly from the CRB and they wanted to know "what level ?"
I answered "small sports club level?", as I didn't know what he meant. I was told to contact my relevant organisation to find out what level (its possible he was just being very unhelpful and was just looking for an excuse to get rid of a call on a Friday afternoon). It might be some additional information on the above British Fencing webpage is needed. Looks like I am going to have to go the large (or maybe huge as we probably need forms for 5 people) SAE to BFA route. I presume the forms are 5-10 pages A4.


Chairman (and kit carrier) of NLSC

Jambo
-7th November 2003, 15:03
I thought all coaches had to have a CRB check? I was told I'd need one to do tasters sessions with my Club Leader certificate (but that was with kids).

Prometheus
-7th November 2003, 15:52
All coaches would need to pay 32 - I suspect they refer to non coaching applications otherwise??

Got mine - the school I coach at paid for it! (Jammy g*t :rolleyes: )

Aoife
-7th November 2003, 19:04
If it's for working with kids I suspect you don't need it if you already work in a job with frequent CRB checks (like teaching/social work/youth centre stuff et cetera).

Hmmmn- if I do my Club Leaders will I need to get this done too? Even if I'm not the club coach, just sort of a backup?

PM1
-7th November 2003, 20:07
Suggest you check out the CRB website, and they have a v helpful help line, I find.

And check with Ismay Cowan if you wish - all in the name of child protection, my dears. You may STILL need clearance for coaching if your CRB clearance is for something else, and in any event, I believe your 3 year initial clearance will not be valid for that period of time for your SECOND purpose i.e., clearance as a teacher is primary clearance, clearance as a coach is secondary (if part time/not main occupation).

2 levels of clearance as well - enhanced is what most people should apply for.

And they are not short forms.........

Am checking it out anyway, but someone else will know the answers.......

stevejackson
-11th November 2003, 19:56
As I recall there is a requirement to be CRB cleared to have your name on the BFA coaching register (at any level). Effectively this means no clearance no coaching insurance and hence no coaching even if all you wish to do is give the occasional lesson in an adult only club.

Further if my memory serves you are cleared for 3 years for your first coaching appointment but any attempt to use that clearance for another job is only valid for 12 months. If I've got the right end of the stick you need a separate clearance for each club/school you coach at. That at least was the implication of what was said.

Sorry I'm not clearer but it had been a long meeting and frankly the ins and outs of child protection legislation is not the most riveting topic

PM1
-11th November 2003, 23:06
Steve - even tho'cp is my livlihood, I have to agree with you re boringness at times.....

Not sure that the requirement for CRB clearance and insurance is in yet, and if it isn't, it ought to be.

Anyhoo, the 3 year/1 year thingy is correct in that you can carry over to a second and subsequent job the clearance from the first, BUT ONLY FOR ONE YEAR. It is easier to do this if it is for a series of the same kind of work (eg., coach needing several clearances because of coaching at several locations) than if the original clearance is for a teacher who also wants to coach (and therfore needs a second clearance). And it's down to the employer to decide whether to accept the clearance in the first place as they don't request it from CRB themselves.

The CRB website talks about the reason for the 3/1 difference being because the initial clearance was for an immediate and specific purpose and the second request may be for something v different etc. I can see that any request to use an initial clearance for another job18months or so after clearance is given should only be for the remainder of the 3 years. Also, the second job could be a much more significant contact with young people: a basic clearance is not sufficient for some jobs, it should be an enhanced clearance, etc. I think the checks should be revisited every year anyway - but then, I don't trust anyone.......

And BTW - anyone supervising young people, eg going abroad with them and thus being in a position of trust, should ALSO be CRB cleared. Think on, dear hearts........:confused: :confused:

Secret Squirrel
-12th November 2003, 09:52
[QUOTE][i]
And they are not short forms.........

I just filled one out for a job, it didn't take that long. Perhaps there are different forms for different things. Basically it was;
name, addresses within the last 5 years, a referee, your bank details,
:confused:
Mothers maiden name, 5 pages in all, but really alot less questions than I expected.
And, nicely, they don't ask about misdemenours that you might not want to remember.:rolleyes:
I was young. I needed the money.

Rdb811
-12th November 2003, 17:34
There are different forms for different clearances.

stevejackson
-12th November 2003, 20:34
Originally posted by PM1

Not sure that the requirement for CRB clearance and insurance is in yet, and if it isn't, it ought to be.

And BTW - anyone supervising young people, eg going abroad with them and thus being in a position of trust, should ALSO be CRB cleared. Think on, dear hearts........:confused: :confused:

Totally concur your point about supervising and I think this is already manditory for BFA trips.

I strongly disagree about the requirement for CRB clearance to be on the coaches register. Why should I have to go through the hassle of the CRB check when I do not now nor do I want to in the future coach Children or other people at risk? For amateur coaches who only teach in one adult only club this is a major disincentive. The form I've seen is worse than the security one I've just completed for my job, the CRB form required details of all criminal convictions of any sort however old, even those that are time expired for all other purposes, including speeding but not as I recall parking, fines.

Who's the first coach to be dismissed because the CRB check revealed a long gone indiscresion (drunkeness perhaps) not declared on the job appliction because it's time ex under the resettlement of offenders act, but which is now used to indicate a break down of trust with the employer?

PM1
-13th November 2003, 10:41
Steve - only specific offences would be of concern for this particular type of "job", and "time expired " does not apply to those particular offences. It is not an unusual requirement to include expired offences - tells an AWFUL lot about you to your potential empolyer, too. I have to say that drunk in charge could be a relevant offence for those in charge of youngsters and vulnerable peeps, but when and why the offence happenned could be relevant. If you made a habit of it, Steve, I might be more worried than I am ......!!Different offences have different expiry limits, too, and not all will be relevant to THIS application for the check, eg as a coach.

A particular offence could be more relevant to one job rather than another : if one is fraud, you won't be a club treasurer.

I tend to agree re adult only coaches: but CRB is for working with vulnerable PEOPLE, which covers more than youngsters. I guess you could have categories of insurance, but it begs the question, why NOT be CRB checked?

Not everyone who goes abroad accompanying youngies is CRB checked, I'm afraid, and I include myself in that - I'm not a coach. It's not even a requirement of my job that I was police checked (tho' I have been).

And BTW, you don't have to give bank details when completing the form - it's a discretionary item, usually, so far as I'm aware.

Just going off for my annual child protection conference - anyone know where Bristol is ?????

pinkelephant
-13th November 2003, 12:09
Originally posted by PM1



Just going off for my annual child protection conference - anyone know where Bristol is ?????

It's where Norwich used to be.

Secret Squirrel
-13th November 2003, 12:35
The CRB form I filled in was related to my job on a ward in a
er...well known childrens hospital in London.

honest PM1, I did have to give my bank details.

Aoife
-13th November 2003, 20:53
<bangs ill noggin' on comuter desktop in frustration>

So, if there is a coach who is not a BFA coach, he/she does not need a CRB check? Only if becoming a BFA registered coach do they need it. Right?

So, say, meta-bloody-phorically (ha), you have a coach who has been coach of a club for a year, the club is a school club and is not BFA affliated, the coach has full and frequent CRB checks as a teacher. Then, a doggedly irritating club secretary decides it would be useful to try and get the club affiliated- does that secretary also need to try and organise additonal CRB checks, or can it wait a year under the cover of teacher-CRB checks?
If that irritatingly dogged and fencing-obsessed secretary herself wants to do a Club Leader's does she need a CRB-check? What about any times when the irritating (and strangely familier) secretary may find herself supervising little ones, whilst still being under eighteen herself?- Nothing needed then I take it? ((seeing that this entirely hypothetical secretary supervised a bunch of 9-10 years olds on a school trip to France without any checks)).

doobarz
-13th November 2003, 21:18
Originally posted by Secret Squirrel
honest PM1, I did have to give my bank details.

I have recently obtained a full disclosure. Whilst the section on the form for bank details and referee remains, the guidance notes say to leave it blank.

Secret Squirrel
-14th November 2003, 13:26
ahhhh. My inability to read small print.:rolleyes:

PM1
-15th November 2003, 23:27
...and lawyers are the worst ones for not reading the small print..............it was an additional layer of checking that IMHO was inappropriate and should never have been put in.

And yes, Pink elelphant, Bristol is STILL where Norwich was !! I seem to go up and down the M5 so much nowadays, it's a case of turn left or right onto the M4.......

Aiofe - you're in a heap big pile of poo here - Let me think about it. Do your coaching course before you think about CRB checks for it, and talk to school about you being responsible for youngies abroard - you are not an adult, and they need to sort that one out themselves.

As for yer coach.......:rolleyes: :o I believe Bfa and BAF coaches are now all to be CRB'd. Yours will be CRB'd because he's a teacher, and probably only for that specific purpose, but your school may have acepted that check/disclosure for the purpose of him coaching you lot.

Have you asked him ??

Aoife
-16th November 2003, 12:01
Have you asked him ??


I'll ask him when we have a minute. At the moment the panic's over trying to get people organised for our first tournament (yay!), then I need to figure out bank type stuff for an Awards for All application, THEN, I'll try broaching the CRB check. (or maybe on Monday.... depending how busy everything else is).

Ta.

PM1
-16th November 2003, 12:42
I'm proud of you, girl !! good luck in the comp. Try talking to your school's child protection co ordinator, as that person should be doing those checks for you, I think...

PM me if you wish..:grin: