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Jambo
-8th November 2003, 14:41
Will the individuals count towards our rankings now that we all have to have BFA membership to enter?

M C
-8th November 2003, 18:08
I doubt it:

- not on ranking list http://www.foilcommittee.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rankings/men_sen_rank.htm

- same weekend as Hereford & Worcester Open

- Not open to anyone, therefore probably can't qualify for ranking points

Jambo
-8th November 2003, 18:09
It was worth a try! Presumably BFA membership is just for insurance purposes.

Mantis
-9th November 2003, 03:32
No, they do not count towards rankings and yes, you need BFA membership, although you will be able to join on the day.

Hmmm, it is 4:30 on a Sunday morning so what am I doing up? Oh yes, bad planning meant I have to travel down to the Welsh open on the day rather than staying overnight. Doh! :dizzy:

Jambo
-9th November 2003, 08:54
Ouch, hope it goes well.

Dave Hillier
-10th November 2003, 09:05
you have had to have BFA membership to do the busa individuals for at least the last 8 years

Dave

(shoot me I have been a student for far too long)

whizzkid1982
-10th November 2003, 18:33
no you did not individual membership to do the BUSA champs. your club had to be a member of the BFA, but you as an individual did not need to join.

Dave Hillier
-11th November 2003, 10:53
they have checked BFA membership cards at check in each day for as long as I can remember.

If fact (ok I'm bored) if you look here at last years busa fencing info sheet it says that you needed them then http://www.busa.org.uk/Downloadfile.asp?file=35_12200241091927_39.doc

BUSA calls the team comps the championship and the invividual event the individuals.

Mantis
-11th November 2003, 11:10
Originally posted by whizzkid1982
no you did not individual membership to do the BUSA champs. your club had to be a member of the BFA, but you as an individual did not need to join.

Individuals do not need to join the BFA to take part in the BUSA team competition, but everyone who enters the BUSA individuals at the beginning of December needs to be a member. Hope that clears up the confusion.

ihunter
-13th November 2003, 21:25
I look forward to seeing all you good folks at the BUSA individuals................remember your plastrons!!!!

Jambo
-13th November 2003, 21:31
Does that mean we'll have some proper refs?

Mantis
-13th November 2003, 21:43
Originally posted by Jambo
Does that mean we'll have some proper refs?

It means more that they are very strict with the rules, but yes there are genrally good refs there.

randomsabreur
-15th November 2003, 13:55
Sadly there are never enough for WS on Friday, it seems that ref's have to work. Last year one pool had to ref themselves. GIven the general level at BUSA, that caused a few problems

Mantis
-17th November 2003, 10:02
Originally posted by randomsabreur
Sadly there are never enough for WS on Friday, it seems that ref's have to work. Last year one pool had to ref themselves. GIven the general level at BUSA, that caused a few problems

Maybe that's why they moved men's epee to Friday some years back. :tongue:

Keith.A.Smith
-17th November 2003, 20:23
Dear All,

I would be interested in who does ref this year.

I have never been invited.

Keith

doobarz
-17th November 2003, 21:10
Originally posted by Keith.A.Smith
Dear All,

I would be interested in who does ref this year.

I have never been invited.

Keith

Poor Keith! You could always e-mail Joanna@busa.org.uk and offer....

doobarz
-17th November 2003, 21:16
As I recall:

John Crouch
Steve Moore
Jonny Allat
Suse Wesley
Richard Harris
Nick Norcliffe
Toby ??
Pat Casey (I think)

whizzkid1982
-17th November 2003, 21:26
Originally posted by Keith.A.Smith
Dear All,

I would be interested in who does ref this year.

I have never been invited.

Keith


you would be most welcome to come along. as one of the sabreurs who will be there it would be great to have someone of your refing experience there.

Julian

Naimst
-17th November 2003, 21:38
I believe ellie collier is also going along to do some refing this year.
Certainly she is going to be there!!

YIPPEE!!!!

kitten
-23rd November 2003, 00:41
Excellent!! BUSA Individuals are going to be amazing!

We're trying to organise a night out for everyone (perhaps even one that doesn't involve the Irish <cue shocked faces>) will let you know details nearer to the time.

xox
Meg
(Notts Uni)


PS
Keith you'd be very welcome, I'm sure they would love to have you. It's held in Nottingham at the Uni Sports Centre, but BUSA runs it.

doobarz
-23rd November 2003, 10:28
Originally posted by kitten
(perhaps even one that doesn't involve the Irish

But tradition dictates....

whizzkid1982
-24th November 2003, 22:43
gotta to the 'rish. its the only sensible option!!! (this is mainly cos its the only place that everyone goes "oh god not again to!" Winton principle. if its that bad it must be great!)

Jambo
-28th November 2003, 14:06
Entry lists are up for anyone interested.

http://www.busa.org.uk/DisplayPage.asp?pageid=538

MS looks pretty strong. Given thats its on the sunday and we'll all be hungover it could be quite hard.

Dave Hillier
-28th November 2003, 14:25
thanks Jambo

Some one has managed to enter me. Lets just hope that they have booked a hotel and minibus as well.

Mantis
-28th November 2003, 15:43
Originally posted by Dave Hillier
Some one has managed to enter me ...

... along with half the population of Southampton, it would seem. :grin:

Good luck everyone - I wish I could enter. :(

Dave Hillier
-28th November 2003, 15:55
... along with half the population of Southampton

We have been trying to push it this year. When I first got here someone vaguely mentioned it in the club and 3 of us went.

Still I am sure that Durham will show up with a coach load as usual.


It is my last year and I really should be in lab but hey, I haven't had a weekend off for ages.

Jambo
-28th November 2003, 15:55
I did think that there a lot of people from only a few uni's. Are there that few unis with fencing clubs?

We've got quite a few going for the first time in a while.

Mantis
-28th November 2003, 16:12
I think the reason is along the lines of what Dave suggested - often it is only vaguely mentioned at the beginning of the year, and by the time anyone thinks about putting in entries the deadline (one month before with absolutely no late entry) is passed. I was very annoyed one year to find the captain had assumed no one was interested when he got round to dealing with it the day before the closing date. :mad:

Anyway, there are 16 entries from Manchester, mostly from Man Uni but also one or two stragglers from UMIST and Man Met.

Jambo
-28th November 2003, 16:15
Your only male sabruer is actually a foilist though! Shame, I was about to ask who to watch out for. ;)

Mantis
-28th November 2003, 16:23
Originally posted by Jambo
Your only male sabruer is actually a foilist though!

Ssssh! Don't tell anyone! He does a good impression.

He's no relation to you, is he? Just noticed the surname.

Jambo
-28th November 2003, 16:28
No relation, it did suprise me the first time I saw his lame though! And you're right, he does do a good impression.

doobarz
-28th November 2003, 16:34
Originally posted by Jambo
No relation, it did suprise me the first time I saw his lame though! And you're right, he does do a good impression.

And he's one of Laszlo's boys....

Jambo
-28th November 2003, 16:36
Really?? :tongue:

Mantis
-28th November 2003, 16:42
His younger brother still is one of Lazlo's boys and I was starting to think there might be a whole clan up there.

whizzkid1982
-28th November 2003, 17:08
he used to be up til he went to uni. still fencers at laszlo's in the hols. his brother kai is still up here and he says he may be turning to the dark side (sabre!!) cos he knows its the best choice!

Threestain
-28th November 2003, 17:24
Help, I haven't been entered! No fair! Is there any chance of entering now, or is it curtains?

Pleae help, have to have revenge on Marc Burkhalter for last year. Plus some new young juniors are lurking...

Mantis
-28th November 2003, 17:29
Only way to enter now is to replace someone else from your university.

Jambo
-28th November 2003, 17:30
Thats quite a sinister suggestion Mantis...

Mantis
-28th November 2003, 17:32
You seen Spellbound (by Hitchcock), or many other films with the same idea? :tongue:

Naimst
-28th November 2003, 23:27
Originally posted by Dave Hillier

Still I am sure that Durham will show up with a coach load as usual.



No coach this year I am afraid, train all the way for us......though there is still about 16 people coming down!!

Nai

ceprab
-29th November 2003, 10:32
Originally posted by Mantis
I think the reason is along the lines of what Dave suggested - often it is only vaguely mentioned at the beginning of the year, and by the time anyone thinks about putting in entries the deadline (one month before with absolutely no late entry) is passed. I was very annoyed one year to find the captain had assumed no one was interested when he got round to dealing with it the day before the closing date. :mad:

Anyway, there are 16 entries from Manchester, mostly from Man Uni but also one or two stragglers from UMIST and Man Met.

We (Bath) found out about the competition two weeks before the deadline (well, we knew it was coming, but that's when the details appeared) and had our first training session one week before the deadline. Unsurprisingly, there are few of us going and many more than that who wanted to.

A month lead time with no late entries when other (larger) comps run with a week before as deadline, and late entries up to the day: is this the worst organised competition on the calendar? Or does the fact it is finalised so far in advance mean it is the best?

I know where my vote is.:moon:

ceprab
-29th November 2003, 10:34
Oh and seeing as he was mentioned by name... Marc is on placement but will be doing the epee. I believe an open clashes with the rest.

UglyBug
-29th November 2003, 17:42
Originally posted by ceprab

A month lead time with no late entries when other (larger) comps run with a week before as deadline, and late entries up to the day: is this the worst organised competition on the calendar? Or does the fact it is finalised so far in advance mean it is the best?


It has to be set up like that because the competition is always run by a BUSA person with no fencing experience, who is also running other national uni tournaments for other sports. Plus the universities themselves (some not all) are quite disorganised so I think it's supposed to give them a kick up the backside - especially as this time of year is busy with end of term and stuff. There have been a few organisational hiccups this year because Jo has moved sports so it's a new BUSA bod running it. DT will be John Charney as usual I think (more NE mafia) In fact, it normally goes very smoothly, considering that there are a lot of people there who have never done an individual competition before and aren't great at finding their way to the right piste, taking responsibility for their kit and checking it works etc. For those of you that do know what's going on, be friendly and try and impart some wisdom - it'll calm down the chaos! :grin:

Jambo
-29th November 2003, 17:46
Originally posted by UglyBug
For those of you that do know what's going on, be friendly and try and impart some wisdom

Like "When two lights come on its always to be given as my hit"? :grin:

Incidentally, I love the fact that it isnt seeded for the poules. Thats going to cause chaos, chances are there will be at least one crazy poule and then some very upset high seeds getting knocked out in the DE.

UglyBug
-29th November 2003, 17:50
Yeah, and "if your opponent is from a NE university, you have to let them hit you - fencing etiquette" ;)

UglyBug
-29th November 2003, 17:55
It is seeded for the poules - it is seeded first from the seedings received from the Universities (so you and WhizzKID won't be in the same poule for example) which is the way BUSA rules seeding on all sports and then separated by GBR rankings - i.e. Danny Ryan shouldn't be in the same poule as Chris Buxton. The problem is when good fencers haven't bothered to do an open since going to uni and so don't appear on the rankings. However, because this is an awkward way to seed anything, bizarre things sometimes occur.

Jambo
-29th November 2003, 17:59
Oh, so my GBR ranking will protect me to an extent. I knew they separated us by uni (good thing too, I always seem to run into whizzkid no matter where I go!).

Which NE uni should I be allowing to hit me out of consideration for etiquette then??

UglyBug
-29th November 2003, 18:06
You are from a NE uni! The only warning about the GBR ranking bit is it only protects you if you're a NIF I think. I think they stop the separation once they've been through the top 50. Then there's the old disclaimer that the organisers can do what they want anyway.

Where can I see who has entered?

Jambo
-29th November 2003, 18:11
I was assuming you were from one of the NE unis too. Oh well, I'm not a NIF so I'll just have to be a pleb in the poules.

As for the entry list, I put up a link a few pages back on this thread.

Naimst
-29th November 2003, 20:51
You guys are wrong.....i hate to say it.
But GBR rankings are not taken in to account in anyway. It all goes or the seedings provided by the unis!

This is what makes the whole thing sooooooo amusing!

UglyBug
-29th November 2003, 22:20
Nai is right and wrong. In the rules of the competition, she is right in that BUSA don't look at the GBR rankings. However, behind the doors of DT, GBR rankings are definitely taken into account after uni seeding for separation. What is not known is how far down the rankings they will go. They might stop after the top 20 or go further - 'tis a moving feast! Anyway, 'tis all irrelevant as copious amounts of alcohol will be consumed and people swap weapons. Let's just all ensure we have a good weekend!!!

kitten
-1st December 2003, 11:11
Hey Tris, you can try entering now if you want, but don't know if you'll be accepted. Seems you have to contact a guy called Stew Fowlie, stewart@busa.org.uk. The deadline was over a month ago though so I don't fancy your chances. It really was very early!! :transport

randomsabreur
-1st December 2003, 14:48
They definitely didn't look at the nationaly ranking last year. There were some horrible pools in WS and some very easy ones, particularly the ones including me in the WF and WE.

In WS at least, most unis only have 1 person entered so that can cause fun and games.

Equally the Coupe du Nord ranking can cause some interesting pools for the Cole Cup!

UglyBug
-1st December 2003, 15:55
They did actually look at the rankings last year, and the years before that. What I'm not claiming is how good a job they did....!

pTeppic
-2nd December 2003, 22:45
Originally posted by kitten
Hey Tris, you can try entering now if you want, but don't know if you'll be accepted. Seems you have to contact a guy called Stew Fowlie, stewart@busa.org.uk. The deadline was over a month ago though so I don't fancy your chances. It really was very early!! :transport

No, late entries are not accepted. Substitutions can be made with exisiting fencers who are already entered for other events in the competition but you can't change the numbers and the person substituted is placed in the the position that became free. Hence Steve Moore became our number four sabourer a couple of years ago below me with quite comical results.

Kian Ryan

pTeppic
-2nd December 2003, 22:46
Originally posted by UglyBug
They did actually look at the rankings last year, and the years before that. What I'm not claiming is how good a job they did....!

I have a bee-line to one of the principal organisors of the compeititon and I am told that GBR rankings are definately NOT taken into consideration during the seeding process.

Kian Ryan

UglyBug
-3rd December 2003, 09:50
In the spirit of this going round in circles...

You are right - GBR rankings are not used for seeding. What I keep saying - and I know this because I have been an official on DT for a couple of years and have been involved in it - is that the GBR rankings are used AFTER seeding FOR SEPARATION. Two different things. The point that I was trying to make is that they do look at them, but bizarre things still happen.

Anyway, if it was predictable, it wouldn't be half as much fun :)

pTeppic
-4th December 2003, 09:19
And I stand corrected.

Kian

randomsabreur
-4th December 2003, 15:52
And you end up with some very strange looking seedings and people who deserved better results going out to a top fencer who got another top 10 fencer in their pool!

No I'm not bitter, or at least not on my own behalf.

Surely there is enough fun caused by the hangovers that certain people are feeling early on the second and third days, and also by some of the refereeing

See anyone who is going there

pTeppic
-8th December 2003, 10:09
Originally posted by randomsabreur
And you end up with some very strange looking seedings and people who deserved better results going out to a top fencer who got another top 10 fencer in their pool!

No I'm not bitter, or at least not on my own behalf.

Surely there is enough fun caused by the hangovers that certain people are feeling early on the second and third days, and also by some of the refereeing

See anyone who is going there

Wow, how accurate could you be about the sabre?

My pool:
Myself
Julian Rose
Robin Allen
David Jackson
an other
an other
an other

And the sabre refereeing was VERY questionable. I actually lost my fight to Jacko but the referee gave it to me 5-3.

And then some people had the poole of their dreams. Weird.

Oh - and 5-3 to be against Buxton!!! (Foil)

Kian Ryan

kitten
-8th December 2003, 11:41
Poules were amusing to say the least!! Can't feel *too* hard done by I suppose, if you were good enough to win the whole thing then you'd beat everyone after all. Still not quite sure how I ended up with my poule on saturday... slightly bizzare!!!

I don't think I've ever been so hungover ever ever before, fencing on sunday was physically painful!!! Wicked fun though, am tempted to switch back to foil.. :->

Did everyone enjoy the Irish????

xox

PS no I am not taking up sabre :P

:transport

rjrc1
-8th December 2003, 14:31
BUSA individuals was a good time even though they wouldn't let me fence!! Damn being old and graduating!!!

Did a bit of refereeing though, probably did a hell of a lot better at the refing than i ever would have at the fencing.

On friday refereed epee (without being told i was going to, bit of a shock standing talking and then hearing your name being read out as a ref). Not having a good day though, even managed to miss a light going on?? Then on sunday refed some sabre, started refing a poule whose ref was late.. then he turned up and said "great just going to get another cup of coffee, back in 5 minutes" all the while me trying to explain that i have almost no refing experience/qualifications at all. Then the poule on the next piste asked me to ref for them (when the guy had finally come back with his coffee) so i did and managed to really piss one guy off because he kept missing and i saw it every time!!

And i only really went to watch.. oh well refing experience is always fun.. I love being infallable.

Rob

Jambo
-8th December 2003, 19:25
Good weekend, serious case of "I'm too tired and hungover to even think about fencing properly" in the poules though! Came 20th, not too shoddy, should not have lost my L32 though.

Eddie
-9th December 2003, 00:21
anyone know if all the results are up yet? i could not see them on the busa results site.

Dave Hillier
-9th December 2003, 08:55
Seeding for the poules.. grumble... need two rounds of poules to be even vaguely sensible.

Guess whos poule in the epee contained 4 of the last 8 (not including me unfortunatly).

It was a very good weekend though plenty of fencingand beer and hardly any sleep.

randomsabreur
-9th December 2003, 16:20
I think I was one of the ones who got nice pools, and nice runs through the DE!!!

Also a large amount of luck.

L16 of Foil, get a few hit up early on in the fight, and stay there. Then opponent susses all of my foil moves and comes back. Get to 14-14 I attack, she parries, I fail to counter parry but she misses me and I manage to get the point on the target!!!

How much luck can you get in 1 weekend.

Although in the WS there was 1 half of the DE with lots of sabreurs and 1 with not so many!

:party:

I heard the Irish was
:dizzy: :drink: :drink:

Boo Boo
-9th December 2003, 16:36
... am just being nosey :)

Boo

Gav
-9th December 2003, 16:52
I don't know about the rest of the events but by the sounds of things there were some suprising draws and put-outs early on. In Mens Epee at least. One of the =3rd's stayed with us before going to H&W and he looked very pleased with himself.

Dave Hillier
-9th December 2003, 17:24
The results are up

http://www.busaresults.org.uk/Championship.asp?ChampID=389

randomsabreur
-10th December 2003, 12:32
In all the Women's weapons, one of the 3rd was not a weapon specialist!!!

Meg Schofield in WS
Jenna Ashton in WE
Jayne Crook in WF

Shows what the seeding system can do!

Boo Boo
-10th December 2003, 12:58
Anyone know what/who happened to Kate Gardner?

Was surprised to see her finish that low... (on paper she had to be a big favourite for the WF...).

Boo

randomsabreur
-10th December 2003, 13:08
Lost to Jayne Crook. Think it was something like 15-5

She was top after the pools

Boo Boo
-10th December 2003, 13:10
Hhhmmm, wonder what happened there then...

Thanks,
Boo

pinkelephant
-10th December 2003, 15:39
Could it have anything to do with the Willis/Howser fight at H&W the day before (which stopped all other fencing in the room.................)

Dave Hillier
-10th December 2003, 15:47
so what happened then? Go on you have got to tell us now you have started.

srb
-10th December 2003, 17:05
Hey Dave,

I've just registered as a student for yet another year, so maybe I see you at the BUSA's next year?

I've checked the epee results and VILLEMIN Quentin reached the L8, so Cranfield does have at least one other fencer. As I'm there this week I might try and find out if the club is still going.

srb

(and read the PM)

Dave Hillier
-10th December 2003, 17:19
Thanks for that SRB I never know what is going on.

As for the BUSAs next year I won't be a student any more (hopefuully). I think that 8 years is enough for any one. It is time to try and find some one to give me a job.

I vaguely know some one else at Cranfield I will pm you their details.

Dave

Mantis
-10th December 2003, 17:28
Originally posted by randomsabreur
In all the Women's weapons, one of the 3rd was not a weapon specialist!!!

...
Jayne Crook in WF


Ah, there she is! I couldn't find her on in the epee results. Did she do epee?

srb
-10th December 2003, 20:39
Originally posted by Dave Hillier
I think that 8 years is enough for any one.
Dave

Ah, you lightweight!

I'll be starting my 9th in January, though I have had breaks in between, and 5 of them so far have been part-time. The stupid thing is, I finish my course on Friday, but have to pay 300 for the privilege to be a student next year just so I can hand in a Design Project and a Thesis Project.

srb (whose work might be really paying for it not him - so its not so bad)

doobarz
-10th December 2003, 20:39
Originally posted by Mantis
Ah, there she is! I couldn't find her on in the epee results. Did she do epee?

No, she was at Hereford & W.

pinkelephant
-11th December 2003, 08:45
Watching the Willis/Howser fight (before putting me out in the 32).

ChubbyHubby
-11th December 2003, 08:50
Originally posted by Boo Boo
Anyone know what/who happened to Kate Gardner?

Was surprised to see her finish that low... (on paper she had to be a big favourite for the WF...).

Boo

Pressure of fencing an ex's ex after having your ex beaten by perhaps your future ex the day before? :grin:

pinkelephant
-11th December 2003, 10:10
Ex's friend and training partner rather than ex's ex. And the ex beat the perhaps future ex, not the other way round.

Boo Boo
-11th December 2003, 11:11
You lot lost me AGES ago!

Still, doesn't sound like a good weekend for Kate :(

Boo

pinkelephant
-11th December 2003, 12:32
The Willis/Howser fight also included two assesseurs, watching for guards in ribs among other things......................

Boo Boo
-11th December 2003, 12:42
Blimey - blokes, hey...?

:( :( :(

Boo

NLSC Sabreur
-11th December 2003, 13:20
Originally posted by srb
Hey Dave,

I've just registered as a student for yet another year, so maybe I see you at the BUSA's next year?

I've checked the epee results and VILLEMIN Quentin reached the L8, so Cranfield does have at least one other fencer. As I'm there this week I might try and find out if the club is still going.

srb

(and read the PM)

Quentin fences at Bedford FC unlike doobarz who doesn't (he is a member, he just doesn't turn up for training. BAD BAD doobarz)

srb
-11th December 2003, 15:45
Last time I was at Cranfield I fenced at Bedford. Seemed like a nice club, except that everbody fences with very strange shaped foils and kept using a different target to me.

I not going to fence at Bedford this week as I decided to take a break after the H&W, and the idea was to do some serious studying (if that's not an oxymoron I don't know what is).

I liked the ladder system Bedford run, plus the fact that you do a warm session at the beginning and a footwork session at the end.

Sadly it looks like the Cranfield Club has folded. The problem is that the students are sometimes only there a year, or like myself there for one week every now and then.

srb

doobarz
-11th December 2003, 16:31
Originally posted by NLSC Sabreur
Quentin fences at Bedford FC unlike doobarz who doesn't (he is a member, he just doesn't turn up for training. BAD BAD doobarz)

I've been resting. I was there last night, unlike some fencers I could mention...

And I was at Northampton on Monday.

And I did two hours on the gym.

So there.

randomsabreur
-12th December 2003, 12:21
Well, it was foggy and frosty so I thought that my cross country trek would be inadvisable. Also, was still suffering from too much exercise and too many bruises from foil and epee from BUSA.

Foilist and epeeists must be so much fitter than sabreurs, I was soo tired after the epee let alone the foil!!!!!

UglyBug
-13th December 2003, 16:31
I don't think any weapon's fencers are fitter than another's. Different kind of fitness - I've seen foilists who can quite happily fence foil for the full 9 minutes of a DE go and get completely knackered fencing sabre. Similarly, have watched sabreurs who use sabre feet and movement fencing other weapons really fast - wear themselves out really quickly!

Rdb811
-14th December 2003, 21:07
I can last quite well at epee - but every beer and bacon butty comes back to haun me at sabre.

The Little Un
-5th January 2004, 20:33
I do hope that I shall be a student during the next academic year, BUSA was my first Epee Competition ever. I now look forward to going back and improving on last years results. It was my second foil competition, Warwick being my first and I ended up 34th out of 41.