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Sophie
-13th November 2003, 14:59
I have been fencing for about 2 years and have only recently noticed that I hold my breath when I attach (pretty stupid I know)!

Any ideas how I can stop doing this (or indeed, start breathing!).

And does anyone else have this problem or am I just odd?

whizzkid1982
-13th November 2003, 15:44
this will not cause you a problem since you use anaerobic breathing for the fast action of attacking. however you must remember to start breathing again afterwards. otherwise this leads to collapse, blackouts and eventually death!!:confused:

Robert
-13th November 2003, 16:01
Originally posted by Sophie
I have been fencing for about 2 years and have only recently noticed that I hold my breath when I attach (pretty stupid I know)!

Any ideas how I can stop doing this (or indeed, start breathing!).

And does anyone else have this problem or am I just odd?

Control of breathing has an important psychological and possibly some physiological effect. As an example Karate/Kung Fu/Kendo people are trained to breath out sharply as they attack (often as part of some sort of undignified shouting behaviour not appropriate for fencing:rolleyes: ), and boxers breath out sharply as they are attacked to the stomach. Breathing out is an important part of most stretching routines, and breathing pattern is vital in swimming.

Mostly, any powerful effort is best accompanied by a sharp exhalation so you should probably be breathing out during your attack but I think the effect is mostly psychological so I wouldn't worry much about it.

Robert

Boo Boo
-13th November 2003, 16:07
However, it might be an issue if your attack fails - i.e. you need to recover and retreat or look for a counter parry reposte or whatever.

I have read somewhere that fencers holding their breath and/or closing their eyes (?!?) is not hugely uncommon with an attack. However, I don't think that I have experienced either. But, since it is apparently reasonably common, I don't think that you are odd :)

The only things that I can think of is trying relaxation techniques - would guess that holding your breath is some symptom of tension - and trying visualisation techniques (i.e. doing lots of visualisation of attacks and making sure that you visualise yourself being relaxed and breathing through your attacks).

Do you experience it in competitions and training or just competitions?

Boo

Jambo
-13th November 2003, 16:11
Originally posted by whizzkid1982
anaerobic breathing
Thats a new one on me

srb
-13th November 2003, 16:18
SHOUT!

The idea is to expel the air from your lungs when you attack. This will actually make your lunge faster. This is why fencers were originally taught to shout 'ella' when they lunge. It is just the modern day fencing where it has become a statement of confidence that you have hit.

Shouting is also good in helping relax you.

So SHOUT, SHOUT, and SHOUT some more.

srb

Jambo
-13th November 2003, 16:21
Shouting that at me is a good way to make me hit you very very hard next time I get the chance. Its (usually) done very arrogantly in a faux french accent :chair:

Boo Boo
-13th November 2003, 16:22
Yeah, but don't you just hate people who shout/yell/scream??? ;)

Boo
(now realises why she probably doesn't have a problem with not breathing...)

srb
-13th November 2003, 16:27
I think 'screech' is the word you were searching for.

srb (where did I put those ear plugs?)

Jambo
-13th November 2003, 16:28
No, I shout, I dont have a problem with screaming or any of the other dramatics that goes on. I dislike being patronised, its so false, just a personal pet hate.

Having said that, some of the noises the women make or truely startling!

srb
-13th November 2003, 16:32
Originally posted by Jambo
No, I shout

You may shout, but you'll have to ask Yogi who screeches!

srb

Boo Boo
-13th November 2003, 16:33
No, that's unfair SRB, there are some women sabreurs around whose yells/screams are several octaves higher than anything that I yell :)

Boo

Jambo
-13th November 2003, 16:34
I'm beginning to wonder if its Boo Boo I've been hearing at many of the opens, Womens foil is often on at the same time as MS. I think you frighten me!!

Boo Boo
-13th November 2003, 16:40
Originally posted by Jambo
I think you frighten me!!

:eekk2:

No, can't be me then (must be that very scarey Welsh woman from Aldershot ;) ).

Boo

Winwaloe
-13th November 2003, 16:40
once fenced a "shouter" in, I think, the Bristol open. He annoyed me so much that I beat him quite soundly and, if I tell teh truth, probably hit him a little harder than I really needed to. - Oh well!!!

pinkelephant
-13th November 2003, 16:42
In Women's Foil, soprano is Boo Boo; alto is Hannah Bryars

Boo Boo
-13th November 2003, 16:46
Hannah can do bass occassionally too... what's Patsy, then (apart from frightening ;) )?

Boo

Rdb811
-13th November 2003, 16:46
The aforesaid welsh lady is the contralto. With experience you can tell the yell's apart.

Rdb811
-13th November 2003, 16:46
Wayhey - I've answered before the question was asked !!!!!!

Rdb811
-13th November 2003, 16:48
The sabreurettes tend to have longer, shiller yells that the foilistes.

I was discussing breathing with fencingmaster, but can't remember his words of wisdom.

Muso440
-13th November 2003, 18:11
Originally posted by Rdb811
The sabreurettes

Sabreuses?

Rdb811
-13th November 2003, 23:00
These tend to be younger than proper sabreuses.

srb
-13th November 2003, 23:20
Originally posted by Boo Boo
No, that's unfair SRB

Boo

Now I only said you'll have to ask Yogi. I never said it was you. That's just your paranoia running away with you!

Your paranoia may be right, but on that matter I surely couldn't comment.

srb

ChubbyHubby
-14th November 2003, 09:34
hey, how else am I going to find the missus in a crowed hall full of sweaty ladies? :grin:

Boo Boo
-14th November 2003, 09:35
'Cos I am the one who "glows" and doesn't "sweat"???

:grin:

pinkelephant
-14th November 2003, 10:06
She's the one with the Jaffa Cakes (unless you've eaten them all).

Boo Boo
-14th November 2003, 10:09
Normally everybody else has eaten the jaffa cakes before I get a look in...

(still, people atually talk to me when I have jaff cakes - although, for some reason, they all go away again when the jaffa cakes are finished... :o )

Who says you can't buy people... ;)

Boo

Jambo
-14th November 2003, 10:37
Originally posted by pinkelephant
She's the one with the Jaffa Cakes (unless you've eaten them all).

How are Jaffa cakes supposed to differentiate between fencers? Everyone eats them!!:grin:

whizzkid1982
-14th November 2003, 10:50
but only a select few actually risk taking any to tounaments!!!!

Jambo
-14th November 2003, 10:53
Its a good way of looking popular!

Boo Boo
-14th November 2003, 11:01
The only time I eat jaffa cakes is at competitions or full day training seasons. Same with Lucazaide/Poweraide - drink litres of the stuff during competitions/full day training sessions: wont touch it afterwards *yuck!* :(

fencingmaster
-14th November 2003, 12:10
Breath holding is quite common, usually during periods of concentration, and is not unique to fencers. When the breath is held the CO2/02 exchange is reduced. The response is often to take an intake of breath to replenish the O2, but this can make the problem worse as the lungs have not expelled the 'stale' air. If you find that you are holding the breath, immediately breath out and then allow the lungs to replenish.
There is also the possibility of a stress response with only shallow breathing into the upper chest, this will cause chest pains as inapproriate muscles are being used for breathing. Long term - practice daiphragmatic breathing.

Sophie
-14th November 2003, 12:28
Wow - And I thought this thread had got a bit carried away!

Thanks for the tips Guy's (although the shouting thing was a lot more entertaining!)

srb
-14th November 2003, 12:49
Originally posted by Sophie
(although the shouting thing was a lot more entertaining!)

It is not just entertaining, it is the solution to your problem. You should try and expell the air from your lungs when lunging. As you say 'huh' you automatically breath out. So try saying 'huh' when lunging. It is just a development from that to a shout.

Then the shout becomes multifunctional, it gets you to breath out, it helps relax you, and it may help to sway a president in awarding you a hit. So shouting can actually play an very important role in competition fencing.

Now if someone shouts at club, they deserve slapping about with a wet fish (Mr Lurker with the bad elbow!!!).

srb

Sophie
-14th November 2003, 15:06
I think you have probably done your fair share of slapping Mr Lurker when he shouts at the club!

Bad elbow could well be just an excuse for not being able to carry on shouting!!

Boo Boo
-14th November 2003, 15:09
Originally posted by Sophie
I think you have probably done your fair share of slapping Mr Lurker when he shouts at the club!


Or barging into him, or stamping on his foot... or is it only me you do that too... :)

Sophie
-14th November 2003, 17:00
Oops - have just been told in no uncertain terms that I must retract the above statement!!

Very sorry Mr Lurker - no offence intended... (honest!)

srb
-14th November 2003, 17:12
Originally posted by Boo Boo
Or barging into him, or stamping on his foot... or is it only me you do that too... :)

I save all my best barging and stamping for Dr Q.

srb (who lost to Dr Q 5 times last night hmmmpf!)

Boo Boo
-14th November 2003, 17:14
Originally posted by srb
I save all my best barging and stamping for Dr Q.

srb (who lost to Dr Q 5 times last night hmmmpf!)

What, you mean that he was still physically able to stand-up? You couldn't have barged and stamped on him hard enough ;)

Boo

haggis
-15th November 2003, 01:43
Holding your breath when attcking suggests, to me, that you are too tense and that your build-up to the attack is too premeditated. Ideally, when fencing, you should be sufficiently relaxed that most of the time your breathing is fairly normal (relative to aerobic exertion). Sharp exhalation at times of maximun effort (i.e. when attacking) would be normal but any sustained interruption to your breathing pattern will affect your ability to perform effectively (as Boo boo can probably testify, a loud scream to accmpany your attack encourages a sharp exhalation followed by a return to a regular breathing pattern for any subsequent actions)

ceprab
-17th November 2003, 10:20
I always used to hold my breath while doing press ups. Took me about 10 years to work out why I could only do three pressups before keeling over exhausted.

I try and persuade beginners to shout to try and provoke some of them into showing a little bit of aggression. That and stand there and poke them 10 -20 times with a foil until they admit that it doesn't hurt, and they won't hurt their opponent.

Boo Boo
-17th November 2003, 10:30
Originally posted by haggis
(as Boo boo can probably testify, a loud scream to accmpany your attack encourages a sharp exhalation followed by a return to a regular breathing pattern for any subsequent actions)

Yes, I have lots of problems - but breathing whilst attacking isn't generally one of them... :eek:

Saying that, I don't tend to scream/yell "on purpose" (and. fortunately, I don't do it in training! :) ). It just starts "naturally" at many competitions. There is also normally a correlation to me fencing well (not technique-wise - but good movement, good timing, positive hitting etc.etc.) in a competition and screaming/yelling. So maybe the screaming/yelling helps to relax me ,in addition to helping positively regulate my breathing...?

Still, these things can get over done - I realise this after seeing a video of one of my fights at the Welsh... :(

Boo

Jambo
-17th November 2003, 11:42
Did a great one at the weekend, charged down the piste, got the hit, screamed, walked away feeling pleased with myself and shouting a bit more only to find out I'd been stop hit on the way in and never noticed!!

Marcos
-17th November 2003, 12:05
a particularly good hit against Spain at the w/e led me to scream and shout

got the hit, but later found out I was lucky not to be black carded
(language might have been a bit strong)

Jambo
-17th November 2003, 12:09
A bit strong?! I thought understatement was an English thing??

symon
-5th December 2003, 17:38
Originally posted by Sophie
I have been fencing for about 2 years and have only recently noticed that I hold my breath when I attach (pretty stupid I know)!

Any ideas how I can stop doing this (or indeed, start breathing!).

And does anyone else have this problem or am I just odd?

don't worry you're not weird its a habit i have too and probably sounds daft but i forget to breath when im concentrating

pTeppic
-8th December 2003, 11:16
Originally posted by whizzkid1982
but only a select few actually risk taking any to tounaments!!!!

I think the entirety of Durham take the wonderful foodstuffs with us. And there were many in abundance this weekend. I can probably say that Jenna's fantastic results were down to a combination of skill, training, fitness and Jaffa Cakes.

Kian