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Mark
-15th November 2003, 14:58
Does anyone know if there is are poule sheets on line that I can download?

Dave Hillier
-15th November 2003, 15:00
try here

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~fencing/files/index.shtml

if you don't mind having Southampton University Fencing Club written across them.

Dave

Dave Hillier
-15th November 2003, 16:08
opps it looks like I can't spell poule.

pinkelephant
-16th November 2003, 10:09
USFA website has some.

neevel
-16th November 2003, 23:28
Originally posted by pinkelephant
USFA website has some.

Though they'll also be spelling it "pool" :).

Mantis
-17th November 2003, 10:31
I downloaded the poule (or "pool") sheet from USFA some time ago, and I've attached it here. Unfortunately, it is for American letter sized paper, not A4. :(

I made up a team sheet which has the advantage that
[list=1]
It is on A4 paper
It doesn't have "Southampton University" on it ;)
[/list=1]

and, I've included it with the poule sheet. If anyone wants something similar for a poule sheet I'm happy to waste, erm, valuably use up 30 minutes of my time. :grin:

Mantis
-17th November 2003, 10:35
By the way, I have just noticed that the team score sheet says "Institution" instead of "team". This is because I originally did it for BUSA matches.

Mark
-17th November 2003, 14:26
Thanks for the help guys.

I ended up downloading the enguarde program from the FIE web site and made my own. I needed sheets for a poule of 11 so it worked out well.

Dave Hillier
-17th November 2003, 15:04
your are going to run a poule of 11 !!! are you insane thats 55 fights!

You could run two rounds of pouls with 5 and 6 in each in that time with just the one piste or twice as many with 2 pistes.

Mantis
-17th November 2003, 15:56
Originally posted by Dave Hillier
your are going to run a poule of 11 !!! are you insane thats 55 fights!


And for sabre, that might take all of 30 minutes. :grin:


You could run two rounds of pouls with 5 and 6 in each in that time with just the one piste or twice as many with 2 pistes.

I know from experience that this causes problems, with En Garde at least. Since you have two poules, one with an odd number and one with an even number, you are likely to have fencers from each poule alternating in the ranking list after the first round. Based on this ranking, En Garde then very helpfully gives you almost identical groupings for the second round. :mad:

Mark
-17th November 2003, 16:16
Actually it was for sabre and it took 1 1/2 hours. It was for a training day rather than a tournament. I really only used it to encourage everyone to fence everyone else. It worked out well and I'm going to use the same system in future training days.

pinkelephant
-18th November 2003, 08:32
Originally posted by Mantis
And for sabre, that might take all of 30 minutes. :grin:



I know from experience that this causes problems, with En Garde at least. Since you have two poules, one with an odd number and one with an even number, you are likely to have fencers from each poule alternating in the ranking list after the first round. Based on this ranking, En Garde then very helpfully gives you almost identical groupings for the second round. :mad:

This isn't just a feature of Engarde - all the programme does is apply the rules. You would get the same result if you did it manually.

pinkelephant
-18th November 2003, 08:39
Large poules unique work fine if you use more than one piste. A pool of 10 is 45 fights - 23 on one piste and 22 on another. This compares very well with running 2 rounds of pools of 5; 10 fights twice is 20 fights. For the same number of pistes and referees every fencer fences every other fencer once, instead of some twice and some not at all. Much fairer all round, especially if running DE afterwards. Even better if it's 8 or 9 in the competition, as it avoids pools of 4, which are an abomination. (LPJS organisers please note).

Dave Hillier
-18th November 2003, 08:51
OK more than one piste or fencing sabre makes it far more achievable. I'm (supposed to be) an epeeist so 55 fights can and will take for ever.

michel
-18th November 2003, 11:32
Originally posted by Mark
Thanks for the help guys.

I ended up downloading the enguarde program from the FIE web site and made my own. I needed sheets for a poule of 11 so it worked out well.

I just had a glance on FIE website and Engarde.
When you look at the order of the matches, there is not the order for a poule of 11, only up to 10.

But, I found on another website this order and I made a poule sheet up to 11, with the order of the match from 3 to 11, with special orders in poules of 6 or 7.

It is in French, but I put it here. (PDF file)