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max
-26th November 2008, 18:04
I hope I'm wrong but it looks like the NVA National Championships are on the same weekend as the Nottingham Open. It seems the Open is a week later than usual. :(

pinkelephant
-26th November 2008, 19:11
Never mind that - the NVA Age Group is the same weekend as one of the BYCs.:(

JulianRose
-26th November 2008, 19:15
now try and find a way that one person can do both of those!!!!!

pinkelephant
-26th November 2008, 19:19
ME!

Fencer in one (or not) - organiser of the other.

Danum
-26th November 2008, 21:23
Me too!! So called fencer in one and Tshirt seller in the other.

Saxon
-26th November 2008, 21:38
Until more people make themselves available for running events, this will continue to be an issue. This thread has not come to the moaning part yet, but others have.

Perhaps the situation would be helped somewhat if anyone complaining about a competition clash had to validate their comment with details of how they assist in the provision of events rather than just their consumption :)

Baldric
-26th November 2008, 21:58
Until more people make themselves available for running events, this will continue to be an issue.

It would also help if competition organisers were a bit braver about involving more people on the team, like Pink Elephant with GBM for example.

I don't think that there is a shortage of potential volunteers, but if you are running a comp, there is always the temptation to turn to the tried-and-trusted brigade for armoury, computers, check-in etc, because you know they will do a great job without supervision. I have certainly been guilty of this in the past.

Maybe organisers need to be pro-actively recruiting a percentage of newbies for each event? OK, it might slightly decrease the efficiency of this years comp, but it will add to the skill pool in many areas, and make it easier to manage the clashes that are inevitable as the sport grows.

Baldric

Rdb811
-26th November 2008, 22:00
PE has a valid point - some of us organisers still want to fence - it shouldn't have to be one or the other.

Naughty foilist
-27th November 2008, 10:24
Never mind that - the NVA Age Group is the same weekend as one of the BYCs.:(

And the Plymouth Open. Definitely can't be in three places the same weekend, although if the BYCs are short on refs, 3CT may try to send me to three pistes at once! (Flatline would have attended the NVA Age groups as driver, bag dragger, referee and hug dispenser.)

pinkelephant
-27th November 2008, 20:03
Don't you DARE go anywhere else!

Danum
-27th November 2008, 20:03
So Saxon reckons this will turn into a moaning session does he? When I feel a moan coming on I eat a bowl of custard and find all my moans just disappear. So Saxon there will be no moans from me except about the kitchen I ordered from MFI and don't get me started on that...

max
-29th November 2008, 16:24
Until more people make themselves available for running events, this will continue to be an issue. This thread has not come to the moaning part yet, but others have.

Perhaps the situation would be helped somewhat if anyone complaining about a competition clash had to validate their comment with details of how they assist in the provision of events rather than just their consumption :)

Can you explain why a shortage of volunteers leads to competition clashes, please? I'm more than happy to assist in events in Sheffield and its near neighbours but I can't see how my offering to help in Gloucester and/or Nottingham could possibly have prevented the clash of dates. :confused:

Saxon
-30th November 2008, 09:59
Can you explain why a shortage of volunteers leads to competition clashes, please? I'm more than happy to assist in events in Sheffield and its near neighbours but I can't see how my offering to help in Gloucester and/or Nottingham could possibly have prevented the clash of dates. :confused:

The thread had rapidly left your original question. Actually it wasn't a question, it was a (correct) statement.

You now have it the wrong way round.
It's not the lack of volunteers that leads to competition clashes, but it does make the competition clashes more of a problem - evidence the rest of the posts in the thread.

JulianRose's comment about finding anyone who can do both the NVA Age Groups and the BYC Finals betrays the general fencer impression that these things happen by magic, and all that's involved is turning up and hitting people. Given more volunteers, there is more opportunity for those who run fencing events to have a choice and not be torn between something they *wish* to do (fence) and something they sometimes feel *bound* to do (run an event).

PE's case is a little different, being the actual head honcho for the BYCs, so that's tough :)


Bear in mind that during the calendar reorganisation, there may be some pressure for single-weapon events. Something which cause even more clashes, and therefore will need a LOT more non-fencing staff.

HelenC
-30th November 2008, 10:15
I think the point is there are many competitions which can happily clash from the fencer's point of view- no problems with a LPJS comp on the same day as an elite junior event and a provincial open, the same fencers wouldn't expect to be able to attend all three. The problem is where the organisers/helpers/referees are the same for all three - they can't be in three places at once.

Helen.

sabrecoach
-1st December 2008, 09:07
Just for Info The Nottingham open always runs on the first full weekend in March of each year, ie Saturday & Sunday both in March.

Saxon
-1st December 2008, 13:59
Exactly the same for the H&W, and also the reason it causes a problem, these dates can vary by up to a week.

miker
-1st December 2008, 15:33
I hope I'm wrong but it looks like the NVA National Championships are on the same weekend as the Nottingham Open. It seems the Open is a week later than usual. :(

Which means that it WON'T clash with the Edinburgh Open, for a change... :)

Highlander
-16th January 2009, 21:07
It seems a real shame to have a national competition
On the same weekend as to established opens in the north
Quite a lot of northern vets will not be able to fence in their
National champs because they feel the need to support there
Local comps.

P.a
I gel organise another competition

Baldric
-16th January 2009, 21:21
It seems a real shame to have a national competition
On the same weekend as to established opens in the north
Quite a lot of northern vets will not be able to fence in their
National champs because they feel the need to support there
Local comps.

P.a
I gel organise another competition

Sorry Highlander, I don't mean to have a go at you, but I am getting fed up with this whole clashing/complaining thing.

DO WE WANT TO EXPAND THIS SPORT OR NOT?

If we don't, if we are happy with having 10,000 members in perpetuity, and never being taken seriously by any major funding body, then fine, we can probably have a system where every competition has its own precious weekend, and there are no clashes, and the same group of poor bloody volunteers can troll around the country organising competition.

On the other hand, if we want to expand the sport, move it into the "medium sized" category, get 40,000+ active fencers, be taken seriously by UKSport and Sport England, then FCS lets stop moaning about clashes, and celebrate the fact that on any given weekend there are several fencing competitions.

YES - we need to train and encourage more refs, organisers, armourers etc, but can we please move the debate on to how we can do that, and stop whinging about the inevitable consequences of the growth of the sport?

Puuuuhhllleaaase?

And before anyone asks, yes I do run competitions.

Ray Stafford

Highlander
-16th January 2009, 23:52
I agree with you baldric about clashing comps no problem with
Different regions having comps on the same weekend

But i think a national comp should be on it's own

Baldric
-17th January 2009, 00:45
I agree with you baldric about clashing comps no problem with
Different regions having comps on the same weekend

But i think a national comp should be on it's own

Hi Highlander

The problem is in the maths.

There are 52 weekends per year. If you take out August and Christmas, that leaves about 45.

Then there are the world and european champs in Cadet, Junior, Senior and vets. Plus the commonwealths in some years, Universiade etc. We are now down to 39 weekends?

Then our own national champs, at senior, jnr/cadet, vets and BYCs (x2) (34 left)

Does the EYC deserve a weekend of its own? or the Scottish Champs, or the Welsh? (only 31 to go...)

After that we have the big opens - Bristol, Essex, Slough, Welsh, Birmingham (25 left...)

And, of course, the internationals we host - the Eden Cup and so forth....

And the regions want their regional qualifiers protected, and the Winton cup and cadet winton are sacrosanct.....

before you know where you are, most weekends are "no-go".

We just have to accept that on any given weekend, there should be more than one fencing comp. I agree that it would be helpful if obvious clashes were avoided. But we have to start from the position that LOTS OF FENCING COMPS IS A GOOD THING!

Baldric

Hungry Hippo
-18th January 2009, 10:24
This weekend sees ME off to Germany, and an open in NIR, while orginally there was a multi-weapon cadet trip to Pisa, but it seems to me that there are no opens or any other type of national competition in mainland GB.

County and Regional may be holding events, but otherwise it would appear to be a bit of a black hole in the fencing calendar, with hopefully no offence to our friends hosting the NI open in Belfast.

So all those grumbles about the early start in January and the clashing of various events could have been avoided by looking at the bigger picture.

Spider5
-18th January 2009, 16:40
Presumably it makes sense to not let competitions clash where there is likely to be a significant overlap in participants because they are part of the same 'circuit'. In all other cases, I agree with Baldric that more than one competition on a weekend shows a healthy growth of the sport.

Foilling Around
-18th January 2009, 18:03
I agree with you baldric about clashing comps no problem with
Different regions having comps on the same weekend

But i think a national comp should be on it's own

On its own in that category, but not necessarily banning any other events.

There is a big enough pool of fencers to have the Scottish and Aldershot or the Merseyside and Hampshire opens on the same weekends. Provided there is a good geographical separation it works. To have an open on the same weekend as the Senior Nationals would not be good. but to ban an LPJS event from the same weekend as the Senior Nationals would be over the top.

Highlander
-18th January 2009, 20:30
On its own in that category, but not necessarily banning any other events.

There is a big enough pool of fencers to have the Scottish and Aldershot or the Merseyside and Hampshire opens on the same weekends. Provided there is a good geographical separation it works. To have an open on the same weekend as the Senior Nationals would not be good. but to ban an LPJS event from the same weekend as the Senior Nationals would be over the top.

I agree

I just think that to hold a national
Vets comp on the same weekend
as two opens is not the best way
to attract the biggest field
Most people I know from the areas are
Going to support their local event
I.e northernish Nottingham open will
Have northernish vets fence there instead of the
Vets nationals

GOM
-18th February 2009, 20:43
I'll be there,here or there definatly at both I'm sure, any body got a spare carpet

marg
-19th February 2009, 07:12
NVA Calendar Logic (taken from the Vets web site)

The following table shows how event dates are calculated

Event Calendar Slot
Age Group Championships Last weekend in January
NVA National Championships First Friday of March
European Championships Ascension Day if poss
Celtic Challenge Last weekend in July
World Championships Second week in September (Set by FIE)
Veterans Epee Last Sunday in September
Veterans Winton Cup Second weekend in September
Welsh Veterans Championships Second weekend in October
Xmas Dinner & Fencing Last weekend of November

I thought this might help.
As you can see the Veterans tend to plan ahead and know when the next competition is likely to be . Maybe other competition organisers can take note of these dates and work around them.