View Full Version : 1st December Rankings

Neil Brown
-25th November 2003, 11:30
The senior rankings for the 1st December are availble now at www.sabrerankings.com


-25th November 2003, 12:20
Wahey I've moved up a bit more, guess Welsh had a higher NIF than last year!

Any chance we could have points breakdown by competition like the women's Neil, you must have to calculate this anyway? Pleasepleaseplease :grin: :) :grin:

Neil Brown
-25th November 2003, 12:34
OK. Soon


-25th November 2003, 12:54
cheers neil. much appreciated. would be great to get the points break down, but don't kill yourself to get it!

-25th November 2003, 14:44
Neil, do these recent rankings include the Amsterdam and Copenhagen Coupe du Nords?

And yes, I think that if there was a points breakdown on the men's ranking, you would probably get less emails from people like me who want to know how their points are separated out.


-25th November 2003, 16:28
Wahay - 62nd. Not bad for an epeeist with only two ideas for what to do with a sabre (both legal).

Neil Brown
-25th November 2003, 22:53
Yes, rankings include Amsterdam (NIF: MS 30, WS 28), & Copenhagen (NIF: MS 60, WS 5).

This 1st December list will be the selection for the Corble Cup, top 8 qualify.


-26th November 2003, 10:51
Thanks Neil. Is it true that the Coupes are capped at a NIFF of 60? And if so, why is that?

-26th November 2003, 14:58
Another question (always questions with me!) - why was the Amsterdam Coupe so low in comparison to the Copenhagen one? I thought it would have been about the same?

Neil Brown
-26th November 2003, 15:08
It's true, cap is 60 NIFs for events scored from the Coupe du Nord NIF & the British NIF list.

There is no cap for events scored off the World NIF list, e.g. World Cup, NAC, German & French circuit.

British Fencing allow us (sabre) to score the foreign Coupe du Nord events differently to other international events. This makes them worth doing for fencers like you & other senior fencers. They are, of course, not that strong in comparison with World Cup events so do not score as highly.

The system for calculating the NIF is in The Sabre Club book, it uses: top 50 on coupe du Nord, to 50 British ranking, top 100 World ranking. These are all available so you can work out the NIF.


-26th November 2003, 15:34
To be honest, I thought that the Sabre Club was not running any more, as before I was out of the sport, competitions had entry via the Sabre Club with discounts (Hamlet, Corble qual, Cole Cup, Ridley Martin if I remember right), but I've not seen that in the last year since I've come back. The website certainly hasn't been updated. Where do I get this book?

From what you said I understand why they cap them if Coupe du Nord rankings count towards the total NIF, as I know of certain Coupes which year on year get so few strong competitors that as a British fencer trying to improve my domestic ranking it would be stupid to travel that far. But if the aim of the competition is to win medals and prizes, then some of these competitions are fine to do. Though in recent years, a lot of fencers from further afield than Europe have been coming to these Coupes and so I think the field has been strengthening...

Having realised that German and French domestic competitions are not capped, I guess it might be worth trying one out!

-27th November 2003, 09:04
Re NIF counts

It appears that the Amsterdam Coupe gained a NIF of 30!
With Sandu, Dina, Hasbani, Gouin & Ros all potentially 6 NIFs by GB standards, + me, Peros, Plantinga, Roman, Ingelbrecht probably 3 NIFs, and a load of 1s (Jackson, Rogers, Rose, De Trog, Mansoori, Moncreiff, Devenney) this seems a bit of a flwed system.

At Copenhagen on the other hand the only 6 NIFs (in my opinion!) were the 3 Koreans and the top Bondar brother (Aleksander?). + me, Stu Watson, Mika Roman and maybe 1 or 2 more 3s and a lot less 1s. I would have though Copenhagne was far easier to get a L16/L8 than Amsterdam, yet the NIF is double. There were a LOT of muppets in Copenhagen (at least 2 or 3 per pool), and far less in Amsterdam (1 or sometimes 2 per pool).

And I'm not just whinging cos I messed up at Copenhagen! It hasn't made much difference to my ranking, but I feel a bit sorry for Jacko, Mike Rogers and some others who fenced superbly at Amsterdam, yet will get naff all points in return. I would calculate Amsterdam at 53 and Copenhagen under 50 (Purely on the basis of comparing the fencers there to the GB standard, not based on any ranking list)

-27th November 2003, 09:29
i would have to agree that amsterdam was far harder than copenhagen. although going by the british ranking system my dropping out so early at copenhagen prob helped to get a lot of extra ones!

i was very dissapointed with my performance there particually since i felt that a l8 was available for the taking. but thats the way of it.

with jacko and mikey doing so well at amsterdam this may have meant that less people were give a one ranking?

-27th November 2003, 10:16
:confused: Dopey question I know, but when the NIF is worked out, is it based on the rolling rankings of who was there or the beginning of the season ones that are published in the sabre club newsletter?

Neil Brown
-27th November 2003, 10:30
Following applies to senior events.

NIFs for British events are based on the ranking at 1st September & 1st March.

NIFs for Coupe du Nord events are based on ranking as at the end of the CduN season, i.e. Summer.

NIFs for other internationl events are based on the ranking after the World Championships or Olympics.

NIF for Amsterdam was wrong, it should've been (& is now), 51.


-27th November 2003, 10:43
The problem is that for the French/ German circuit you have to get in the top 50% of the rankings. Which can be easier said than done given the standard.

This seems irrational to me as it is a lot harder to get top 50% in these than in a domestic and it would also be harder to get in the top 75%, certainly of some of the bigger ones!

-27th November 2003, 11:34
Just a thought, but would it encourage UK fencers to come to Ireland if we sorted out some way of giving Rep Irl comps a NIF?

Is there a way (hoping Neil might answer) of getting Irish comps on the circuit calender and giving them points? I know they are seperate judiciaries, but...[feel free to answer by PM]

Northern Irish comps are on the calender, and their Nif is generally quite low - the two bigger Irish comps (Irish Open & East of Ireland) would have Nifs similar or slightly higher than the Nothern Ireland Open.

The point would be to encourage Nire fencers to continue their support of Irl comps (currently Sykes, Fenwick and Downey all come down), to encourage UK fencers to have a trip to Dublin, and of course to improve the standared of Irish fencing.

It would also mean that Irish fencers have a UK rank (I do, as do a few others, but all very low) and encourage them to go over for more UK comps.

The other option we are thinking about (as mentioned previously ) is getting the East of Irl onto the Coup calender, but that a few years away. Plantinga won it last year beating Downey in the final.

Neil Brown
-27th November 2003, 13:38
Our points system makes a clear distinction between home & international events.

Events in Ireland will be included in the British rankings as international events, anyone who fences regularly in Britain will count their results towards the British rankings.

These events will be scored on international NIF list, the minimum is 1*10.

This is, of course, if anyone actually sends me the results. I generally don't get the results from the Northern Irish events for months if at all.


-4th December 2003, 14:58
Originally posted by Marcos

The point would be to encourage Nire fencers to continue their support of Irl comps (currently Sykes, Fenwick and Downey all come down), to encourage UK fencers to have a trip to Dublin, and of course to improve the standared of Irish fencing.

Huh? I thought Downey fenced for our side of the border???


Neil Brown
-6th December 2003, 22:29
NIF counts for all events for the previous 12 months are as follows:-

NIFs to December 03

Date Event NIF

Jan-03 Corble 760
Feb-03 Orebro 60
Mar-03 Nancy 850
May-03 Gent 40
Jun-03 Helsinki 35
Havana 820
New York 1590
Oct-03 World Championships 1530
Gent 23
Nov-03 Amsterdam 51
Copenhagen 60

To find the NIF count for all the domestic events look at the Cadet rankings 02-03 & 03-04 from www.sabrerankings.com

-5th January 2004, 15:03

NIF of Irish Open was 10

East Of ireland is on the 28th/ 29th Feb - is entry is anything like last year NIF should be a little higher

(thanks Neil)