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hayleyjade
-11th February 2009, 23:11
Hello,

Just wondered if anyone could give me some clarification on a point that ha sbeen causing one of my teams trouble this season.

According to Team "X" it is required that all members of the team hold BFA membership.
Now my teams are all non-premiership teams.

In my 3 yrs of uni fencing at this level i have never been asked to produce my BFA card, nor was it presumed i had/ had not got it.

In the rules, the overarhcing statement says:
For both the Individual and Team Championships full British Fencing
Association (or home nation equivalent) Licences are required by all competitors. FIE Licences
will not be accepted.


However it's only in the Premier league that it says that all members must have BFA liscences.



Has anyone else had this problem? Do all clubs buy BFA (individ) for their members? Or does the club membership cover them?

I can see why having BFA would be usful, but it just seems inequitable that every person must have it. seems to be a very restrictive approach.

Hayley


ps, sorry for poor spelling, please note time of post, slight madness and the fact that i've been to cambridge and got beaten today :(

hayleyjade
-11th February 2009, 23:12
pps forgot to say, copy of said rules to be found here:

http://www.bucs.org.uk/page.asp?section=00010001000101360011&search=fencing+regulations

MakeTradeFair
-11th February 2009, 23:27
Hi hayleyjade,

I am 99% sure that every member of every team needs to be affiliated with British Fencing - although, although in my experience - it has always been taken for granted that everyone has a membership. A gentleman's agreement perhaps ;)
The fact that it states this in the Premier league rules makes me even more certain that this is the case for all levels (although maybe you could pick a fight with someone if it does exclusively say Premier league).

I would be shocked if there is *any* university club who buys BF membership for their members!

I imagine it's that old insurance story again...



P.S. D'art: shhhhhhh!

hayleyjade
-11th February 2009, 23:30
Thanks,

The sesnsible in me knows we shouldnt fence without BFA membership, but as i thought it wasnt necessary due to custom, all rationale went out of the window.

I also presumed the club insurance would be covering us.

o well, time for something to give... "my"/the clubs budget, the union (pah) or the teams and their members.

H

MakeTradeFair
-11th February 2009, 23:40
This is where a lot of student fencing falls down. Memberships are expensive these days for students who just want to have a bit of fun with the sport.

Scottish Fencing used to do some amazing student deals which unfortunately were no longer viable one BF started processing the memberships. I am sure that this had an effect up at Dundee.

I reckon you'll just have to get your fencers to dig deep and hope very much they decide they want to pay up. I'll eat my shorts if you manage to get your SU to pay :p

D'Artignan
-11th February 2009, 23:44
I'll eat my shorts if you manage to get your SU to pay :pYou'd have to wash them first mate. :p

What MTF said is pretty much true AFAIK, though things may well have changed since I was a waster, sorry, student. I've never heard of anyone managing to get their SU to even keep a straight face when asked to help out with BF memberships

Red
-12th February 2009, 04:58
The trick is to get them to sign up early in their first year while they're still juniors.

BigPappaBear
-12th February 2009, 06:41
I'm sure there used to be something in the club insurance that covered you for team fencing. What you may find is that the BUCS/BUSA rules haven't changed in relation to the changes in insurance, and I'm not sure there was a premiership back in my day... hence the lack of apparent equity.

BigPappaBear
-12th February 2009, 06:42
JC or Moya would know if you're down Kirkstall one monday.

hayleyjade
-12th February 2009, 08:10
thanks,

i'm pretty sure i entered a comp last year and my BFA wasnt checked cos it was a team event and club insurance covered me.

Will ask moya if i get chance to go down.

Thanks for your help!

H

Lucan
-12th February 2009, 08:43
Any of you students able to give the costs of other sports licences. I am always being told students pay to much for a fencing license, but what do you pay for other sports?

MakeTradeFair
-12th February 2009, 09:00
Hi Lucan,

Football and Hockey: neither require a national governing body membership. It's also worth noting that with these team sports - it is a lot more likely that the club/SU will be paying to enter the team into a competition... making them much more financially appealing to the high number of "social" students that take up a sport just for a bit of fun.

MTF.

scottishsabreur
-12th February 2009, 09:44
Negotiate with your SU/AU. We get 20 towards our licences and have done for the past two years. Might affect funding in your budget elsewhere so depends what you think should be prioritised.

MakeTradeFair
-12th February 2009, 10:00
Wow SS - thats quite impressive. Back in my day ... Dundee for 50 for the year. Period.

Saxon
-12th February 2009, 13:40
Unless I am misunderstanding you, "club insurance" as you understand it doesn not exist.

If a club is affiliated to BFA, then this includes public liability insurance for the club itself (specifically its officers) in claims against them from fencers or others, arising from incidents during the normal running of the club.

It does not cover anyone fencing at the club or elsewhere, whether individually or in teams. It doesn't even cover the officers when they themselves are fencing.

Social membership (at 10 each) would cover club members fencing within the club, and at one nominated external event per year of membership. It specifically does not cover club members fencing at another club, or fencing at your club against a visiting team. It can only be arranged through the club (no such thing as individual social membership), and would ideally be included in the yearly club subs, with a "discount" for those who are already BFA members.

Seems that the rules would imply each team member needs to be an individual BFA member.

Tubby
-12th February 2009, 16:15
ps, sorry for poor spelling, please note time of post...Just what is happening to students these days? {Warning - Old man speak approaching} In my day, we were falling out of the kebab shop trying to find the next party at that time of night...



slight madness and the fact that i've been to cambridge and got beaten today :(Ms Beaumont, thank you for remaining genteel. (Reference Madfencer's status on Facebook after a similar result against the same university).

D'Artignan
-12th February 2009, 16:27
Ms Beaumont, thank you for remaining genteel. (Reference Madfencer's status on Facebook after a similar result against the same university).Think it's fair to say Maddie wasn't exactly chuffed with that result. Can't imagine what gave it away though :whistle:

madfencer
-12th February 2009, 23:01
(Yes we did lose, and yes I did have to apologise to several cambridge attendees for afforementioned facebook status *whistles* )

Sorry you lost hayley.
And the others are right, the rules state every fencer of the team must have BFA licences.
madfencer

Shieldmaiden
-15th February 2009, 11:50
I was heavily involved in a Uni club about two years ago, as secretary and as the women's team captain and trained with the men's team.

Our collective understanding was that all those in the teams *should* have BFA membership/insurance. Many of us did, but I was told by various people that the card can be asked to be produced at any BUSA (now BUCS) match. However, the only time we knew for this to occur was when there was a BUSA qualified referree at the match or when the team got to the later stafges of the knockout/cup/trophy.

Our student's union have their own insurance which all students have to purchase in order to join any university sports club. However, this only covers them when they take part in the sport on/in University grounds, so if an injury occurs at an away match the su insurance will not cover them.

Pikkukala
-15th February 2009, 20:01
Our SU rang BUCS up about a slightly different issue regarding our club and insurance two weeks ago only to be told that only individual memberships were important (that's the version that has been passed back to me - I wasn't involved in the actual conversation) which has led to some rather pointed questions about how many of our members have them and how we should be forcing our members to buy them.

So, how do you convince members to pay out 40 for a BFA membership when they've already paid the university/SU 115 for an club membership which was advertised as being a one-off payment? (And yes, we've already tried telling the SU that they should pay for them due to false advertising but it didn't work).

TLove
-15th February 2009, 22:51
Well, no it wouldn't because it's NOT false advertising. Club membership and BFA membership are, and do, wholly seperate things.

As far as we understood, BFA membership is required for each individual member to fence in BUSA... and, as has been indicated, you can be asked to produce your membership cards although this hardly ever happens (not the point though!).

We got round this by making members join.
Pretty much black and white guys, if the club/union can afford a subsidy then fair enough.. if not then the member will just have to pay up. Just gotta be tough with them.

If they refuse, ask yourself how much the club is willing to pay to have them on the team and whether that would be setting a precedent for everyone else. Or take the chance and fence without membership.. which I wouldn't really recommend!

scottishsabreur
-16th February 2009, 14:38
So, how do you convince members to pay out 40 for a BFA membership when they've already paid the university/SU 115 for an club membership which was advertised as being a one-off payment? (And yes, we've already tried telling the SU that they should pay for them due to false advertising but it didn't work).

As TLove says, it's not false advertising at all...however if that's how much your union are charging you then they are taking you for a ride...We pay 35 to our union...our club do charge us if we are not gym members but gym membership is only 65 per year...this covers full use of all sports facilities at the uni.

SwayFencing
-5th February 2010, 23:54
Just sent following snot-a-gram to BFA. Anyone else got a clue what this is for???

"Dear HQ,
perhaps for the third time of asking BFA, somebody could tell me just what the Social Membership class is supposed to achieve and is it intended to be compulsory?
Does this mean that club fencers are not insured to attend inter-club competitions or fence as visitors outside their home club?
Confusion reigns (as per usual)"

RC

PM1
-6th February 2010, 10:00
Have you read post 15 by Saxon ??