PDA

View Full Version : Strength of Springs



Robert
-8th December 2003, 12:31
Does anyone know the actual strength of springs and how variable this is.

I have just replaced the springs on two of my foils. Both now pass a 500g foil check, but one of them passes a 750g epee check. This implies the fresh springs are either very variable or quite a bit stronger than 500g.

Just had an idea and checked both of them by pressing down onto an accurate kitchen scale. They seem to be triggering at a little over 600g on average.

Anyone know the actual weight and the extent of the variability.

Robert

Rdb811
-8th December 2003, 12:53
I know from experience epee springs tend to be stronger than required, although fairly consistent - Leon Paul ones used to be a lot stiffer than the Allstar.

srb
-8th December 2003, 16:24
Originally posted by Rdb811
Leon Paul ones used to be a lot stiffer than the Allstar.

Not from what I hear. I fence with someone that uses both LP and Uhlmann points. He saves his LP ones for competitions. I personally think that weight tests should be carried out more often. I had to red card someone at the H&W for having two foils that failed the weight test. He ending up borrowing a foil from his opponent.

srb

sparkymark567
-8th December 2003, 17:39
Interesting srb. I saw lots of foils fail the weight test this weekend, what with the BUSA on the Saturday and H&W on Sunday.I wasn't so keen with the red cards, but perhaps I should have handed some out on Saturday.

I don't think it makes much difference when the foil point is heavy. My foils points are now all overweight by some margin. This doesn't seem to make any difference providing that you maintain a smooth point action.

stevejackson
-8th December 2003, 21:48
In my opinion people tend to concentrate too much about lowering the spring pressure to the limit at both foil anf epee. At both weapons it's very rare that not to bend the blade when you hit and that takes rather more than the 500/750 gram presure required to compress the spring. A smooth action is more important than the minimum presure.

The other thing that people don't realise is that an out of spec bodywire has more impact than a heavy spring. This is easiest to demonstrate at epee but similar effects occur at foil.

If you take a standard box plug in 2 epees and depress the tips simultaineously you should get a double. However if you put a variable resitor in one line and slowly turn it up there comes a point at which you get a single light but both the weapons work correctly when tested individually. From memory this happens at about 80 ohms. I see many bodywires at about this resitance in competition. Fortunately it's the owners problem and only counts against them. Otherwise we'd have to have more equipment controls than we do.

The cure? Loosen and retighten the screws holding the wire into the pins, and any other screw forming part of the contact.

Rdb811
-9th December 2003, 00:08
Originally posted by srb
Not from what I hear. I fence with someone that uses both LP and Uhlmann points. He saves his LP ones for competitions. I personally think that weight tests should be carried out more often. I had to red card someone at the H&W for having two foils that failed the weight test. He ending up borrowing a foil from his opponent.

srb

I did say for epee - I have had someone concur with me.

Rdb811
-9th December 2003, 00:10
Originally posted by stevejackson


The cure? Loosen and retighten the screws holding the wire into the pins, and any other screw forming part of the contact.

That could be invaluable advise, thanks.

Epeecurean
-9th December 2003, 16:16
Yes, great advice Steve!

<mental note: maintenance bodywires soon>

Barry Paul
-16th December 2003, 18:04
30 years ago our spring tension was about 1100 gms, we then brought it down to about 800 gms. About ten years ago some of the top fencers complained that other points were nearer 500 gms and we tweaked the weight down to 540 to 560 gms.
Problems do occur with manufacturing tolerance and we have recently gone for springs at the top end of tolerance coming our at about 580 gms.

We are looking at supplying even stronger springs for the standard blades but this is not as simple as it seems as the stronger springs seem to fatigue faster and become non regulation quicker than the lower stressed springs. Barry Paul M.D Leon Paul