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View Full Version : European Junior Championships - Odense, Denmark. 1-6 Nov 09



Neil Brown
-3rd August 2009, 20:55
The team for this event has now been selected.

Details at http://www.britishfencing.com/British_Fencing.asp?PageID=1540

Neil Brown
-27th October 2009, 01:48
Final details now up. Everyone should now know all the details of their travel.

Please note there is now an online registration on the event web site at http://www.ejc09.eu/. All fencers & coaches should now register & upload a photo.

Fencers, please check all the information now & let me know if anything is missing.

Neil Brown
-29th October 2009, 12:07
Best of success to all the fencers travelling to Odense tomorrow.

Results will be up at http://www.ejc09.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=59

Also congratulations to the personal coaches of the 23 fencers:-
Bob Meshkov
Gyorgy Felletar
Adalberto Tassinari
Brian Matless
Tomasz Walicki
Steven Davey
Ken Rose
Donnie McKenzie
Norman Golding
Iain Aberdeen
Peter Frohlich
Peter Barrett
Andy Vincent
Alex Agrenich
Maciej Wojtkowiak
Glen Golding
Ian Williams
Ben Hanley
Neil Brown
Daniel Morgan-Blake

BarbedwireFencer
-5th November 2009, 15:36
What happened to the French team? Have they boycoted the event? Couldn't get enough refs. volunteers? Or was it just a timetable clash?

Miss_P
-5th November 2009, 15:49
Also congratulations to the personal coaches of the 23 fencers:-
Bob Meshkov
Gyorgy Felletar
Adalberto Tassinari
Brian Matless
Tomasz Walicki
Steven Davey
Ken Rose
Donnie McKenzie
Norman Golding
Iain Aberdeen
Peter Frohlich
Peter Barrett
Andy Vincent
Alex Agrenich
Maciej Wojtkowiak
Glen Golding
Ian Williams
Ben Hanley
Neil Brown
Daniel Morgan-Blake20 coaches and 23 fencers - who coaches which fencer?

pigeonmeister
-5th November 2009, 15:59
Tough going for our juniors.

Predictably solid stuff in MF- real shame Rhys and Fitzy had to meet in the L16, but both look very comfortable at this level (Rhys was ranked 3rd after poules). Very unlucky to go down by one hit in the team.

WE still looking promising- good result from Albini. Shame Corinna couldn't make more of fantastic poule round.

I'm afraid that's pretty much it. All four WF cut- managing only 2 victories between them. ME- solid L32 from Carty but again didn't build on excellent poule. Nobody won a DE in WS or MS.

All in all 20/24 fencers either cut or didn't win a DE

haining
-5th November 2009, 18:50
What happened to the French team? Have they boycoted the event? Couldn't get enough refs. volunteers? Or was it just a timetable clash?

The French haven't been to the European Juniors for a few years now. Apparently, they concentrate on the Junior Worlds instead. Not sure if it's a cash issue.

Foilling Around
-5th November 2009, 18:54
It showed where our fencers are in real terms. This event was so expensive that only the top fencing nations on Europe sent full teams. The rest were the most talented individuals of other countries. There were no Latvians, Moldovans or Portuguese for example.

In a normal sized field of 70 or 80 fencers in the women's foil, the finishing places of mid L64 were about par for the course in recent years. In this case however none of the fencers expected to finish below them turned up! The same I think applies to the Women's Sabre.

It also means that the morale boosting victories are not there, to act as a spring board to beat the better fencers in the DEs.

How we move on from here to break through into that consistent L32 zone in top level events is a matter for discussion - answers on the back of an old brown envelope please.

Miss_P
-5th November 2009, 21:16
All in all 20/24 fencers either cut or didn't win a DEI think 7 won DEs

Miss_P
-5th November 2009, 21:26
Correction - 8 won DEs
Fitzgerald, Melia, Mepsted, Carty, Albini, Lawrence, McGeever, Chang

haining
-5th November 2009, 21:36
Correction - 8 won DEs
Fitzgerald, Melia, Mepsted, Carty, Albini, Lawrence, McGeever, Chang

Right 1st time, only 7 out of 23 (WS only took 3) won DEs, unfortunately Lawrence got a bye and then lost

pigeonmeister
-5th November 2009, 22:47
I think 7 won DEs

Apologies- my mistake. I think Curtis lost very narrowly as well.

Probably still a bit disappointing though. I agree with Paul, however, difficult to know what we can do to bridge the current gap in certain weapons.

Lee Spiers
-5th November 2009, 22:56
Well done guys!

Wish i started that early!!:rolleyes:

Neil Brown
-6th November 2009, 09:02
Women's epee just beat Switzerland to make the last 8.

WE & MS teams both now fence at 10:30 local time, sabre will be on the live online results system.

Results updates are also available on the British Fencing twitter, www.twitter.com/britishfencing

TomA
-6th November 2009, 10:39
WE team through to L4 - fencing Estonia for a place in the final. MS team lost 45-44 to Ukraine in the last 16 :(.

Miss_P
-6th November 2009, 12:24
Right 1st time, only 7 out of 23 (WS only took 3) won DEs, unfortunately Lawrence got a bye and then lostOoops!

Well done girls! Wooooo! 5 hits from silver and now up against Russia (who beat them in Belfast) in the bronze fight.

aao
-6th November 2009, 12:33
Super result for the girls hopefully a bronze beckons, but more importantly GO TURKEY!! what a result in the mens sabre :) I am sure this recent outbreak of Turks beating Brits won't last (especially if the turk concerned is me) but while it does i shall remain suitably smug and elated....

pigeonmeister
-6th November 2009, 12:36
Great stuff, fingers crossed that they can bring back a medal!

Neil Brown
-6th November 2009, 17:50
All the British results, including individual stats from the teams, are now online on the Odense page at www.fencingcoach.net (http://www.fencingcoach.net) & at http://sabrerankings.250x.com/odense09.htm. Scroll right to see the results.

Full results for the event are at www.ejc09.eu (http://www.ejc09.eu)

Well done to those fencers who were pleased with their results.

Thank you to all the coaches/team managers:-
BENNEY Sue
STRACHAN Linda
HARPER Pierre
WOJTKOWIAK Maciej
FROHLICH Peter
THOMAS Anita

Miss_P
-6th November 2009, 18:31
All the British results, including individual stats from the teams, are now online on the Odense page at www.fencingcoach.net (http://www.fencingcoach.net) & at http://sabrerankings.250x.com/odense09.htm. Scroll right to see the results.If only there was 72 entered in the WS. It was more like 36.

Foilling Around
-6th November 2009, 21:07
If only there was 72 entered in the WS. It was more like 36.

Yes, the WS results are out of 36 and they were 2,5 and 10 places from the end.

The Women's Foilists should be capable of making L32 and at the moment they are not, but to put their results in context.

Last years WF JEs had 64 entries this year was 48 = a drop of 25%

The entries for the nominated WF JWCs last year were 110, 84, 84, 105 and 98. Average 96 - double the number in the JEs

Last years MF JEs had 87 entries this year was 75 = a drop of 14%

The entries for the nominated MF JWCs last year were 105, 98, 84, 77 and 136. Average 100 - 25% more then the number in the JEs.

Put simply the fencers from the marginal nations who were not in the frame for a L16 spot elected not to turn up for a very expensive party which gave them no FIE points.

I suspect I could do a similar analysis for the Women's Sabre, but I don't have the figures to hand.

This event was quite an aberation for both the WF and WS.

Neither the fencers, their coaches nor the foil committee will be happy with the results, but before anyone tries to write them off entirely it is useful to bear the context in mind.

With hindsight, I would have been much better spending over 700 sending my daughter to two extra JWCs for the experience and to gain FIE points.

TomA
-6th November 2009, 21:25
With hindsight, I would have been much better spending over 700 sending my daughter to two extra JWCs for the experience and to gain FIE points.If the FIE website is to be believed, then this year's championships do count for points.

Foilling Around
-6th November 2009, 22:37
If the FIE website is to be believed, then this year's championships do count for points.


No, they don't, and they did not last year.

TomA
-6th November 2009, 23:01
No, they don't, and they did not last year. The FIE website has the results up, the results have points attached and the points have been attached to profiles and ratified for ME and MF. So I think that they do count this year at least.

Foilling Around
-7th November 2009, 10:50
The FIE website has the results up, the results have points attached and the points have been attached to profiles and ratified for ME and MF. So I think that they do count this year at least.

I stand - or more accurately sit - corrected.

I wonder if the French knew that and still decided not to come.

It also raises the spectre of the other zonal championships being given equal weighting. So the African, Asian and Pan American zonal event will get the same number of FIE points, but will be nowhere near the same standard.

That totally skews the seedings for the World Championships and starts to turn the seedings, and hence the World Championships, into a lottery.

The African Junior Champs start in Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso this weekend, so we will see what happens to them points wise.

JulianRose
-7th November 2009, 10:59
The other zonals have counted for a couple of years at least. The European federation just didn't want to impose full regulations on juniors.

Neil Brown
-8th November 2009, 15:12
Corrected British results (entry numbers were wrong for 2 events) now up on the Odense link at www.fencingcoach.net.

Miss_P
-8th November 2009, 15:50
Corrected British results (entry numbers were wrong for 2 events) now up on the Odense link at www.fencingcoach.net. It still says WS having 72 entries on the "British Results" and "Sort by distance from end" parts of the spreadsheet. Yet distance from end looks right. Looks like the end column was not updated but the re-ordering was.

Neil Brown
-24th November 2009, 15:27
Thanks to all those fencers & coaches who have sent back the feedback form following the event.

To those of you who have not managed to do this yet please can you do it now; it's your chance to help make things better for the future.

Please look at the spreadsheet to see the list of those who have done this.

Foilling Around
-24th November 2009, 17:52
Neil may not want to name and shame, but I will because only 7 of the 23 fencers have completed feedback!

If you are in contact with one of the following fencers please can you ask them to complete the feedback. Even if you think everything was fine - it is good for Neil to know. We all want our fencers to do their best at major events. It is only be getting feedback that Neil and the team can improve things to give them the best possible chance.

Men's foil FITZGERALD Jamie
Men's foil MELIA Rhys
Men's foil MEPSTEAD Marcus
Men's foil ROSOWSKY Husayn
Women's sabre TILLOTT Jennie
Women's sabre WILLIAMS Sophie
Men's epee ALLEN James
Men's epee MAY Jonathan
Men's epee CARTY Greg
Women's foil MULLINS Philippa
Women's foil THOMSON Natasha
Men's sabre CLARKE Michael
Men's sabre LEWIS Nat
Men's sabre MILLER Curtis
Men's sabre RATNESWARAN Maiyuran
Women's epee MCGEEVER Jenny

haining
-26th November 2009, 12:00
Neil may not want to name and shame, but I will because only 7 of the 23 fencers have completed feedback!


I think you was a little bit too quick off the mark. This was posted on the 24th and the forms didn't have to be returned until the 25th (yesterday).

If people have nothing to say why insist they fill out a form which when received by Neil will have no added value in improving future trips.

Neil Brown
-26th November 2009, 23:31
8 fencers managed to get their forms back by the closing date.

Have the other fencers really got nothing to say?