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Tubby
-9th August 2009, 18:19
http://www.britishfencing.com/British_Fencing.asp?PageID=1547
Plus some clarification:
'Our agreed target with UK Sport for 2012 is to enter 3 teams and at least 3 individuals in the events for which we don't have a team. We therefore need to be preparing at least two other teams for 2012. Obviously, the problem is that we don't yet know which team events will be in the 2012 programme. After Antalya, there are only two more world championships before the London Games and so Antalya needs to be a part of the preparation process. Because we don't know what teams will be in 2012 the Board and the International Committee has accepted the recommendation that we enter teams in all six team events (under the new FIE rules all of our teams are qualified to compete). Therefore we are entering three young fencers for the team events only, primarily for experience and to begin the process of developing a world ranking in that weapon. In WF and MS (which are the two weapons we expect to be dropped by the FIE) we are not recommending a fourth fencer and to compete with just teams of three (a strategy that worked at WF in the recent European Championships).

For the longer term strategy, the Board is aware that we will have to drop any future support for the two teams that are excluded from the team programme in 2012 after the FIE decision in November and continuing support will just be for individual athletes in those disciplines. However, within reason, we will continue to support full team entries at the other four weapons going forward to 2012. In due course, one may drop away as it becomes clear which three have the best medal chances in 2012.'

munkey
-9th August 2009, 20:54
Personally, I'd really like to know how long this strategy (3 teams plus 3 individuals for 2012) has been agreed. I've no particular problem with it and probably makes best use of our resources but perhaps it could have been published sooner.

Munkey

Baldric
-9th August 2009, 20:56
Personally, I'd really like to know how long this strategy (3 teams plus 3 individuals for 2012) has been agreed. I've no particular problem with it and probably makes best use of our resources but perhaps it could have been published sooner.

Munkey

At the last British Fencing AGM, Graham Watts gave a presentation outlining the narrowing focus of effort and resources as 2012 approaches.

I can't honestly say that I recall him using the exact same words, but certainly the principle is the same.

Foilling Around
-9th August 2009, 22:10
Personally I am delighted that some raison d'etre has been given. There are always questions raised by selection decisions and it is great that some background helps to answer at least some of those questions.

I am always prepared to make criticism when I think communication has been poor, so I am also happy to give praise when I think in has been done well.

Highlander
-9th August 2009, 23:09
Does this mean jonny willis will be funded
after all he is the third highest ranked fencer
in the whole country
and mens foil being a shoe in for the team
jonny will be the no 1 ranked not in a team
even if the mens epee team is not entered
all in all I would like to know how British fencing could not fund
him
can anyone comment?

cesh_fencing
-12th August 2009, 11:01
Very strange that a fencer ranked 35th in the mens epee rankings is even on the short-list for the 4th place in the team.

I could understand the other two top 10 ranked younger fencers being there and getting the place having not hit the qualification standard for experience, but someone ranked so low that they are not eligible to do senior world cup events?.

If it is just a throw the youngster in for experience there are probably half a dozen other aged 20 or younger fencers who are higher ranked (and several who have had superior Junior World Cup results). I do not know whether there are 'special circumstance' injuries etc, but has a full 6 results counting etc, however even with the accompanying message from Piers it does seem strange.

Please note this is nothing against the individual as anyone getting a chance to go to the world will benefit from the experience, but just inconsistant with what else seems to be going on.

riposteinprime
-12th August 2009, 11:17
and what a surprise, an LTFC fencer! Where does the national coach coach? LTFC!

aao
-12th August 2009, 12:50
Clearly thats it, join LTFC and become a member of the national team! *deep sigh* (it would help our membership numbers no end if it was that easy!)

There have been many odd criteria used for selecting national teams over the years, but rarely has your attendance at a particular club made a real difference, irrespective of who the national coach is and where he trains. I rather suspect it might have more to do with the fact that Lukas was until recently one of the top juniors and the selectors see some potential in him.

Not sure I would agree entirely on all the discretionary choices they have made, but certainly giving the better young fencers a chance alongside more established team members is a good move. Hopefully the results will bear this out whoever they pick.

Demonic
-12th August 2009, 16:24
I agree to some degree on the BFA's idea of sending a younger ranked fencer for the 4th place on the teams for experience but surely it would be a better idea to do this in A grade and GP events and not the world championships especially as mentioned one of them has had no world cup experience at a senior level.
Again this has nothing to do with the individual but as Chris mentioned it does seem a little odd especially has he isnt even on in pathway program.

Spider5
-12th August 2009, 19:22
Does this mean jonny willis will be funded
after all he is the third highest ranked fencer
in the whole country
and mens foil being a shoe in for the team
jonny will be the no 1 ranked not in a team
even if the mens epee team is not entered
all in all I would like to know how British fencing could not fund
him
can anyone comment?


Sorry mate, but I think bang, wind, urine, head and wall are all words that are relevant here. Best to leave it.

fenderstrat
-12th August 2009, 21:02
I'm not sure about Jonny's injury status at the moment, mind. Anyone comment?

thedoc
-13th August 2009, 00:16
he's out til next season, essentially.

Hungry Hippo
-13th August 2009, 07:50
Next season being less than a month away...unless you mean the 2010/11 season!

thedoc
-13th August 2009, 19:47
the world cup season runs from january...

Red
-14th August 2009, 14:09
Next season being less than a month away...unless you mean the 2010/11 season!

The 'season' isn't over until after the World Championships.

oiuyt
-15th August 2009, 00:14
In WF and MS (which are the two weapons we expect to be dropped by the FIE)

Anyone have any insight into the background for this statement?

So far:
2004 WS WF
2008 WE MF

Is the thinking then that it won't be ME/MS, but rather one from each gender? Why WF/MS, rather than WS/ME?

Otherwise based on actual discussions at the FIE level for some different reason(s)?

-B

Red
-15th August 2009, 01:17
Anyone have any insight into the background for this statement?

So far:
2004 WS WF
2008 WE MF

Is the thinking then that it won't be ME/MS, but rather one from each gender? Why WF/MS, rather than WS/ME?

Otherwise based on actual discussions at the FIE level for some different reason(s)?

-B

Gender equality seems to be a fairly consistent theme. Hopefully Usmanov et al can avoid the need to choose...

oiuyt
-15th August 2009, 02:24
Gender equality seems to be a fairly consistent theme. Hopefully Usmanov et al can avoid the need to choose...

Unfortunately not. The IOC informed the FIE on August 13th that Fencing would NOT get twelve medals in London.

-B

Red
-15th August 2009, 12:20
Bugger.

aries
-8th September 2009, 18:47
Lukas Kuhlmey has announced he has been picked for the senior world championship team.

Congratulations to Lukas and his coach.

Commisserations to the 29 other fencers ranked above him not to have made the team.

Tubby
-8th September 2009, 20:17
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=158160067924&ref=nf

also announced on Facebook that Mary, Jayne and Hannah selected but no update on Sissi or Corinna.

cesh_fencing
-8th September 2009, 22:30
Lukas Kuhlmey has announced he has been picked for the senior world championship team.

Congratulations to Lukas and his coach.

Commisserations to the 29 other fencers ranked above him not to have made the team.


Well done to Lukas and I hope you do have a great experience.

Sure there will be many of those 29 not quite understanding this selection.

Especially other young, up and coming (18-20 year olds) who are higher than him in the rankings.

However I am sure there must be justfication behind the selection if BF funding is to be used to pay for the squad to travel etc.

Highlander
-8th September 2009, 22:49
Will the BFA have to jusify this unusual selection?

It would be a bit rude if they didn't!

Lynne
-8th September 2009, 23:08
There were 3 ME fencers in the running for that place if you look at the original selection list. Both Ben and Jamie are ranked higher than Lukas. Jamie has more experience than either of the others, but had to scratch from the Nationals with a back injury which is only just now sorted. Lukas, I think (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) has a little more experience than Ben, being slightly older etc.

Good luck to all of the selected fencers. I'm sure you'll all have a great time.

TomA
-8th September 2009, 23:14
Lukas, I think (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) has a little more experience than Ben, being slightly older etc.I'd imagine Ben's going to be quite busy with uni at the time of the championships as well.

cesh_fencing
-8th September 2009, 23:50
Higher ranked juniors/just out of Juniors off the rankings, Taran Nichols 18th, Matthew Edgar 25th, James Harris 25th, Chris Hay 30th. All had the up and coming tag and higher ranked.

If securing the best team position was the key, there would be lots of much more experinced fencers who would have fitted the bill in the top 10/20 who would have fitted the bill.

Hopefully we will all be amazed by Lukas being a revalation at the event and really helping the team to success. I am sure Bob who coaches him and the GB team will have a tactical situation to use him to the best advantage.

My comments on this are over (unless I am asked something specific). We have a team and I truly hope that the individuals, the team and the coach reap the rewards of a very positive championship. Good luck..

Silvermouse
-13th September 2009, 10:52
This really speaks volumes on how they select fencers - it seems that the saying "it is not what you know but who you know" fits the bill. Hopefully some kind of statement will be made to justify this selection procedure. As mentioned previously there are quite a few fencers who should have been selected and who are far ahead of Lukas in the mens senior rankings who have just left the juniors and who also need this kind of exposure. Lukas will probably now have a lot to live up to.

Silvermouse
-13th September 2009, 18:20
Being new to the forum I submitted before I had finished my post. I wanted to wish Lukas and the team every success in the competition I know that all of the fencers will be training hard to achieve their dream, please accept my apologies for the tone of the above post.

fenderstrat
-15th September 2009, 13:34
Hopefully some kind of statement will be made to justify this selection procedure.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

<wipes eyes>

UglyBug
-16th September 2009, 13:01
Specific selections aside, is it not just a little bit rubbish that stuff is announced on Facebook and not the BFA site? I'm all for Web 2.0 (pays my salary) but that is a little daft.

Meanwhile, good luck to EVERYONE who gets an opportunity to fence/referee/coach in Antalya.

hokers
-16th September 2009, 13:22
Higher ranked juniors/just out of Juniors off the rankings, Taran Nichols 18th, Matthew Edgar 25th, James Harris 25th, Chris Hay 30th. All had the up and coming tag and higher ranked.


3 words.

Discretionary
Selection
Bad.

riposteinprime
-16th September 2009, 13:30
and what a surprise, an LTFC fencer! Where does the national coach coach? LTFC!


Clearly thats it, join LTFC and become a member of the national team! *deep sigh* (it would help our membership numbers no end if it was that easy!).


Lukas Kuhlmey has announced he has been picked for the senior world championship team.

Congratulations to Lukas and his coach.

Commisserations to the 29 other fencers ranked above him not to have made the team.


Perhaps it is that easy?????

fenderstrat
-16th September 2009, 14:30
Perhaps it is that easy?????

:whistle:

JoJo
-16th September 2009, 14:36
Can't help but feel that the wrong GB Epee coach has resigned.

riposteinprime
-16th September 2009, 15:02
Can't help but feel that the wrong GB Epee coach has resigned.

oh yeah!

fenderstrat
-16th September 2009, 20:32
Indeed.

Highlander
-25th September 2009, 00:10
Good to see one of our team members making a last 64 at Bristol
shows good form for the world champs!

aao
-25th September 2009, 00:31
What ever the reasons and whatever the result please remember that it is not Lukas's fault that he has been selected. He's going there representing GB and I hope he and the rest of the team do as well as they can.

Maybe he will prove to be an inspired choice and do well, maybe he won't but as those who pick the team have chosen him I think its worth supporting him irrespective of the result.

Certainly later questions and justifications should be asked for irrespective of how he and others did, but that is for later.

hokers
-25th September 2009, 11:19
Good to see one of our team members making a last 64 at Bristol
shows good form for the world champs!

Although you know about my 3-word-mantra, this is just a cheap shot.

Judge the team on their performance at the WC, then take aim at the selectors, not the fencers.

Baldric
-25th September 2009, 11:22
Although you know about my 3-word-mantra, this is just a cheap shot.

Judge the team on their performance at the WC, then take aim at the selectors, not the fencers.



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to hokers again.


Its the thought that counts.

Ray

cesh_fencing
-25th September 2009, 12:31
Although you know about my 3-word-mantra, this is just a cheap shot.

Judge the team on their performance at the WC, then take aim at the selectors, not the fencers.

Totally agree. It is not any of the fencer's fault that they have been (in many peoples mind) unexpectidly invited to represent their country and any result between then and the worlds is not relevent. What happens there is the key.

We should put all of our support behind the whole team now and once the event has been completed we will find out whether any unusual selections worked or not.

TBennett
-25th September 2009, 17:45
Good to see one of our team members making a last 64 at Bristol
shows good form for the world champs!

I am very disappointed to see this sort of comment on the forum only a few days before we go to the Worlds. I really hope you are proud of yourself Highlander. From the comments since your post, I think you get the idea as to what other people also think of it too.

Tom Bennett

Highlander
-25th September 2009, 22:48
I do not seek to cause any harm to the fencer
(who I have not named)

just pointing out the Very strange decision to
send someone so low ranked in the first place

if it's so bloody obvious who it is
it's not my fault

the person asking me if Im proud of myself
should perhaps be asking the selectors if they are proud of themselves
putting this fencer in a ridiculus situation by picking them
ahead of so many better fencers
I hope they fence well but what ever this fencer does at the worlds
will not detract from the incorrect decision to send them in the first place

Jeff Kiy

TomA
-25th September 2009, 23:59
the person asking me if Im proud of myself
should perhaps be asking the selectors if they are proud of themselves
putting this fencer in a ridiculus situation by picking themThat's pathetic logic - blaming the selectors for creating a situation which led to you taking a cheap shot at Lukas for how he did at Bristol. Regardless of whether the selectors were right or wrong, you can't shift responsibility onto them for rude or hurtful remarks that you've made.

You made your point about disagreeing with the decision a while ago. Aside from the fact that by repeating the same thing over and over you're just ****ing in the wind, making rude and hurtful remarks on top of that is uncalled for.

miraberis
-26th September 2009, 00:18
Hope he isn't a member of the forum!
If it was me I could take it if people said to me there's a lot of controversy about your selection to my face, but reading some of the things that have been said behind my back would rob me of any confidence being selected had given me in the first place.
If you are reading all this, good luck and hope you enjoy the competition!

Lee Spiers
-26th September 2009, 10:11
Who cares? its an internet forum!!

Sure LK will do fine, good luck lads.

Tubby
-28th September 2009, 13:20
Best of luck to all of our guys in Turkey. Spare a thought for the youngest members of the team who are competing in WE; best wishes to Corinna and Sissi, you're also flying the flag for your weapon. C'mon!

Meg_SF
-28th September 2009, 14:14
Good luck team!!! Go GB!!!!

Hoboneer
-28th September 2009, 15:42
Woot go guys!! :)