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Barry Paul
-26th August 2009, 07:55
As a requirement of attending the School Games I had with other members of Leon Paul staff to attend a C.P course.

I am not sure where to start,

1. The course should have been entitled having demonised all adults as being potential abusers you now need to be told how to protect yourself from false accusations.
2. Do I think coaches should have the knowledge imparted on this course? Absolutely and it should be part of any basic fencing teaching/coaching course.
3. Despite being told the course was meant to be interactive discussion group, the whole format was childish, a bit like the dumbed down modern exams. Discuss scenario A with a partner turn the page and be told possible solutions.
4. What I gathered from the course could have been presented to me in 15 minutes and just as effectively on-line. Apart from the obvious not being alone with a child one of the most useful bits of information was what to do if you suspect C.P. or a child confides in you a C.P. (but I already knew this from a C.P. course I had sat through three years before.)
5. As I understand efforts are being made to introduce non-coaching C.P. courses, so lets hope they get on with it and make them on-line.
6. Do I think in three years I should have to do this course again, absolutely not, for me it would be a complete waste of time.

What I find really disturbing if you read all the paperwork surrounding C.P. the whole thrust of what is being done has more to do with social engineering of society as a whole. ( to be continued.)

Peter Pan
-26th August 2009, 08:17
1. The course should have been entitled having demonised all adults as being potential abusers you now need to be told how to protect yourself from false accusations.
2. Do I think coaches should have the knowledge imparted on this course? Absolutely and it should be part of any basic fencing teaching/coaching course.


Absolutely right!

A superb summary completely matching my own experience of 3 of these courses delivered by 3 different "Professionals"

There must be a better way....... if not, I can see a lot of coaches struggling to keep up with the requirement of 3-yearly repeat as you can only sit through this awful process so many times in your life!

pinkelephant
-26th August 2009, 08:23
Especially when you're a teacher and do it all in the course of your profession anyway.

Macbond
-26th August 2009, 17:50
Absolutely right!

A superb summary completely matching my own experience of 3 of these courses delivered by 3 different "Professionals"

There must be a better way....... if not, I can see a lot of coaches struggling to keep up with the requirement of 3-yearly repeat as you can only sit through this awful process so many times in your life!

...and of course the effect of variable delivery is that you get varying levels of understanding and precious little chance of a consistent interpretation of the requirements in a largely distributed community such as ours.

If the content can be identified creating an on-line training programme is not at all difficult (and systems to do this which track trainees at an individual level are freely available subject to getting the content).

Amongst the advantages of an on-line course is that its repeatable, a single investment (and therefore not too expensive), can provide an objective test of the trainees understanding and is easy to maintain and update as requirements/case law/ learning outcomes are modified.
Of course it also allows trainees to do the training as and when suits them and does away with the need for organising venues, getting a trainers etc. etc.

This is something that I am sure BF or even a HC (although I DO think this is more of a BF area than one for HC's) could do with not too much effort (and indeed it could be extended to other "non-practical testing" elements of coaching or refereeing etc.)

Owen

sobraon
-26th August 2009, 17:56
The Scouts have faced up to the problem of putting large numbers of people through these courses every 3 years by producing a very effective 3-stage correspondence course. After reading each section you send off an answer paper. Providing that you are not an idiot you pass, & then receive the next stage, & so on until you have completed all 3 stages. All approved by all relevant authorities & works well.
I did suggest this at a fencing course, but as expected I was firmly slapped down. Too simple & of course it falls into the 'not invented here' category!

Cottontail
-27th August 2009, 09:54
The Scouts have faced up to the problem of putting large numbers of people through these courses every 3 years by producing a very effective 3-stage correspondence course......I did suggest this at a fencing course, but as expected I was firmly slapped down. Too simple & of course it falls into the 'not invented here' category!

An admirable and too obvious solution. We find there are very few available courses in our area because organisations are getting enough members together to run their own private course.

I heartily agree with everything Barry said. I recently attended a C P course to update my coaching slot on the register only to find even national coaches cannot be bothered! (Another thread).

Interesting current debate on Womens' Hour about CRB checks makes you wonder why anyone bothers working with children.

Baldric
-27th August 2009, 10:07
The Scouts have faced up to the problem of putting large numbers of people through these courses every 3 years by producing a very effective 3-stage correspondence course. After reading each section you send off an answer paper. Providing that you are not an idiot you pass, & then receive the next stage, & so on until you have completed all 3 stages. All approved by all relevant authorities & works well.
I did suggest this at a fencing course, but as expected I was firmly slapped down. Too simple & of course it falls into the 'not invented here' category!

Hi Sobraon.

I also think that sounds an excellent idea, and I don't care where it was invented.

Do you know who I might contact at the scouts, or perhaps you have a copy of the exam?

Perhaps you could PM me with any details, and I will take it up with the relevant people.

Ray

Barry Paul
-27th August 2009, 10:53
Although I understand some problems of non portability of CRB, I can see no reason for not having portability of C.P. courses. How have we got into a situation where some one like Keith Smith(A senior master at Whitgift) who no doubt has done C.P. courses for school has had to renew his C.P. course before being allowed into the School Games? This is pointless, waste peoples time/money, costs fencing/or the taxpayer money and brings the whole system into disrepute.

Tubby
-27th August 2009, 12:46
Although I understand some problems of non portability of CRB, I can see no reason for not having portability of C.P. courses.Are CP courses not portable? I'm pretty sure our coach attended an NSPCC run course rather than a specific BF/EF course and then registered as a coach with EF.

pinkelephant
-27th August 2009, 14:37
They are portable - I did a local child-protection in sport coursse, which wasn't specific to any particular sport. We don't do a course as teachers as such - just a refresher lecture at staff training days every couple of years. You would, however, think that would do just as well.

Barry Paul
-27th August 2009, 15:32
Please explain you don't as a teacher do C.P. training?? Your qualification and acceptance as a teacher needs upgrading so you can either teach fencing and or be around kids at a fencing competition. The C.P. training in sport course told you things you did not know?

pinkelephant
-27th August 2009, 17:13
No - it didn't. In fact, the comment from the person leading the course was "why do you have to be here". She actually used me as a reference point for others on the course (who patently DID need to be there - no idea about risk assessments, for example).

Barry Paul
-27th August 2009, 17:45
so why did you have to do a sports C.P.? Who in British Fencing recommends and who then decides you must do it.?

pinkelephant
-27th August 2009, 19:51
I had to do it to get my coaching qualification (Club Leader!) across to England Fencing's Level 1. Didn't have to do another First Aid course though - my Health and Safety at Work one was deemed to be sufficient.

sobraon
-29th August 2009, 10:27
Hi

I have posted more detail in a PM to Baldric, but for others who may wish to push here is some more info

Administered by the NSPCC under registered title of EduCare
Email; info@educare.co.uk
website: educare.co.uk
tel: 01926-436219

Title: 'Keeping Children Safe - A child protection awareness programme'':
Modules
1. Understanding the basics
2. What to do if you have concerns
3. Principles of good practice

For each module you receive a pack of guidance & questions & have to pass each before moving on to the next.
Oviously not tailored to fencing, but should be no problem if BFA want an extra bit on special issues for best practice for coaches in fencing. Moreover, to be honest best practice is best practice. One good thing about it is that it is non-confrontational (unlike some courses) and I feel that this allows points to be absorbed better. Also, obviously no worry about finding a course that takes place on a date that fits, is within reasonable distance, and is not already booked out.

Baldric
-29th August 2009, 12:42
Hi

I have posted more detail in a PM to Baldric, but for others who may wish to push here is some more info

Administered by the NSPCC under registered title of EduCare
Email; info@educare.co.uk
website: educare.co.uk
tel: 01926-436219

Title: 'Keeping Children Safe - A child protection awareness programme'':
Modules
1. Understanding the basics
2. What to do if you have concerns
3. Principles of good practice

For each module you receive a pack of guidance & questions & have to pass each before moving on to the next.
Oviously not tailored to fencing, but should be no problem if BFA want an extra bit on special issues for best practice for coaches in fencing. Moreover, to be honest best practice is best practice. One good thing about it is that it is non-confrontational (unlike some courses) and I feel that this allows points to be absorbed better. Also, obviously no worry about finding a course that takes place on a date that fits, is within reasonable distance, and is not already booked out.

Thanks very much.

As I understand it, there are actually two courses, the one detailed above would be for "first timers" and then there is a second, abbreviated refresher course.

At first glance it looks like a very useful resource. I have contacted the BF and EF welfare officer for her view.

Will report back.

Ray