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Red
-29th September 2009, 19:32
Poules are now up for WS and MF.
Louise is going to utterly ruin somebody's day ;)

(Separate thread to separate news/results from the innuendo etc on the other thread)

UglyBug
-29th September 2009, 22:16
linky?

Red
-29th September 2009, 23:18
For everything - http://live.fie.ch/antalya/
WS Poules - http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/sfs-in/poules.htm
MF Poules - http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/fms-in/poules.htm

Gildas Braine
-30th September 2009, 07:58
The girls are fencing now, with "live" scores on the website (which seem to have crashed). Not sure if they are doing 3 waves of pools, or if they only have the live scoring equipment on 4 pistes. So far Chrystall is 1/2 and KK 1/1. Jojo and Louise yet to fence.

Gildas Braine
-30th September 2009, 08:26
Just spoke to Jojo, who had 2 no-shows in her pool. They then took someone else from a pool that hadn't started yet to make up the numbers (??!!). She won all her fights, so a happy return to international comps after 6 months out with injury. :-)

JulianRose
-30th September 2009, 09:29
Make sure you follow PD4BF on Twitter.

is Graham Watts. he is doing results service much better than fie site!

Basically Chrystall, Jo, and KK all straight through to L64 after poule. Louise through, but will have to fence to get into the L64.

UglyBug
-30th September 2009, 09:40
Pretty solid performance from all of them - go girlies!!!

fa266
-30th September 2009, 09:48
So far so good. Good luck for the rest of the day :-)

fa266
-30th September 2009, 10:08
So far so good. Good luck for the rest of the day :-)

Eeek - I didn't realise they have to wait a couple of days to fence again!

Tubby
-30th September 2009, 10:10
If the girls get to the 32 we could get at least a L16

http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/sfs-in/claspoules.htm

fa266
-30th September 2009, 10:21
Won't KK draw CN in the 64 (my calculations could be wrong here...)

Hot Bot
-30th September 2009, 10:30
Won't KK draw CN in the 64 (my calculations could be wrong here...)
They'll meet in the 32.

hokers
-30th September 2009, 10:31
Won't KK draw CN in the 64 (my calculations could be wrong here...)

Yes.

"Hutchison qualifies in 4th place to join exemptions as 20th seed; Nicoll qualifies in 15th place to be 31st seed and Kempe qualifies in 18th (34th seed)"

Boo Boo
-30th September 2009, 10:32
Good luck to everyone - great to see JoJo back on form :)

Boo

Hot Bot
-30th September 2009, 10:42
They'll meet in the 32.
Or not... Forgot about exemptions...

Yes.

"Hutchison qualifies in 4th place to join exemptions as 20th seed; Nicoll qualifies in 15th place to be 31st seed and Kempe qualifies in 18th (34th seed)"

j-lo
-30th September 2009, 10:48
Come on the girlies!! Legends!

UglyBug
-30th September 2009, 11:05
Men's foilists on now - both Ed and Laurence 2 fights up from 2. Jamie yet to start. Is Kruse exempted from the poules? And if so, how come Laurence isn't as world #15?

pigeonmeister
-30th September 2009, 11:11
LBW sadly lost 15-9 in L96. Must have been tough for her to come back after so long.

pigeonmeister
-30th September 2009, 11:24
Is Kruse exempted from the poules? And if so, how come Laurence isn't as world #15?

This is the seeding http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/fms-in/tireurs.htm

Kruse is 3 so exempt

I can understand why they have moved up Kleibrink (Olympic champion but has only fenced three times since). I'm not sure why Schlosser has been moved up from 20th to 16th? or Zhu from 24 to 12. Any ideas?

Red
-30th September 2009, 11:33
how come Laurence isn't as world #15?

He isn't - at least not yet.
The ranking used for this is the 2008/09 world cup ranking rather than the 2009/10 as the worlds is still in 08/09. In that Laurence is 18th. After the worlds, the two lists should agree.

Tubby
-30th September 2009, 11:35
Or not... Forgot about exemptions...At least you forgot, I didn't bother to read up on it :egg::oops

Red
-30th September 2009, 11:42
According to Graham's twitter, the boys seem to be dominating.

Insipiens
-30th September 2009, 11:45
I think they are using the 2008/9 season rankings from the FIE not the 2009/10 ones. Why I couldn't say.

Red
-30th September 2009, 11:51
I think they are using the 2008/9 season rankings from the FIE not the 2009/10 ones. Why I couldn't say.

The worlds is in 2008/09, not 09/10.

pigeonmeister
-30th September 2009, 12:08
Thanks for the explanation.

UglyBug
-30th September 2009, 12:11
According to Graham's twitter, the boys seem to be dominating.

Dropped one fight between them so far with only a couple left to go

hokers
-30th September 2009, 12:21
Jamie Kenber on FIRE in Turkey:

"Kenber finishes with 6 wins and indicator of +20 awesome performance!"
http://twitter.com/PD4BF

UglyBug
-30th September 2009, 12:27
Basically between them, the WS and MF will have won over 80% of their poule fights today. That must be a pretty top day as records go.

Red
-30th September 2009, 12:27
Jamie Kenber on FIRE in Turkey:

"Kenber finishes with 6 wins and indicator of +20 awesome performance!"
http://twitter.com/PD4BF

With Laurence just behind with +19

TomA
-30th September 2009, 13:17
Laurence is joint 2nd, so when the exemptions come in he could draw Kruse in the last 16

Red
-30th September 2009, 13:35
Laurence could get anybody in the top 4 (Ota, Joppich, Kruse or Cassara) - depends how the top seeds move around (pairs get flipped at random) and whether he gets to be 18th or 19th going into the L64.
Slightly simpler for Kenber - he gets Ota or Joppich.

munkey
-30th September 2009, 15:17
Ed out in last 96 to Baboaglu of Turkey 15-12.

aao
-30th September 2009, 16:14
Even as a loyal Turkish Fencer thats not something I expected, especially as Tefik barely scraped out of the poules. Maybe 1 months of dedicated camp based training does some good?!
Go Turkey! :) (although I am still shocked)

UglyBug
-30th September 2009, 17:36
Graham's tweet says Ed beat himself

http://a1.twimg.com/a/1254267101/images/white.pngDisappointing end to a good day with Jefferies beating himself 12/15 to lose to the Turk Babaoglu

aao
-30th September 2009, 17:58
I am sure Ed wasn't fencing at his best as he is a very good foilist, but even so, for a junior Turkish fencer to win two DE's in a row, having only won 1 poule fight, is quite impressive by our (turkish) standards. The suprising thing is that Ed lost having come back to 11 all.

Anyway GO TURKEY :) (this is something I virtually never get to say in the fencing world so I shall milk it for all its worth!)

munkey
-30th September 2009, 23:59
Interesting footnote in the MF, Tomer Or (ISR) proceeds to L64 when his Iranian opponent forfeits. Am I right to assume this is because Iran doesn't recognise the state of Israel rather than injury to the fencer?

Munkey

Red
-1st October 2009, 00:07
Interesting footnote in the MF, Tomer Or (ISR) proceeds to L64 when his Iranian opponent forfeits. Am I right to assume this is because Iran doesn't recognise the state of Israel rather than injury to the fencer?

Munkey

He has to have been injured or similar. If it was for the reasons you suggest then he would have been excluded.

D'Artignan
-1st October 2009, 00:17
Yeah, like it's impossible to fake an injury or illness at all :rolleyes:

Red
-1st October 2009, 00:22
Yeah, like it's impossible to fake an injury or illness at all :rolleyes:

Presumably he'd have to convince the doctor that he was suffering from something other than hatred of Israelis/Jews? That said, I've heard that that may be a common psychiatric disorder in some parts of the world so it might've worked...
Proper results aren't out yet (not even a ranking of those eliminated), so speculation will have to do. Does anyone that's there know anything?

munkey
-1st October 2009, 00:38
Presumably he'd have to convince the doctor that he was suffering from something other than hatred of Israelis/Jews? That said, I've heard that that may be a common psychiatric disorder in some parts of the world so it might've worked...
Proper results aren't out yet (not even a ranking of those eliminated), so speculation will have to do. Does anyone that's there know anything?

Or the simpler ruse of saying "I've developed a terrible migraine since winning 2/5 with an indicator of -1 in my poule. Sorry, I really can't fence." What doctor is going to argue with that? It's not like feigning injury to get 10 minute break. There's no competitive advantage, merely a way of upholding an ideological standpoint that most of the world finds objectionable.

Munkey

pigeonmeister
-1st October 2009, 01:13
It would certainly not be the first time that an Iranian athlete has refused to compete against an Israeli. It has happened in football, swimming, judo and wrestling.

I do not believe that this a govt enforced edict (which I assume would also be punished by the FIE)- certainly Iranian fencers have competed against Israelis this year. I thus doubt that he got a phone call from the interior ministry!

Of course, we cannot discount the fact that he is genuinely injured or that other internal political or personal factors are at play.

Red
-1st October 2009, 10:24
It's down as par forfait on the prelim DE tableau. Injury usually ends up with par abandonment... What does par forfait mean in this context?
Leaving the comedy that is the Middle East behind for a moment, all three WF are through to the L64.

hokers
-1st October 2009, 10:28
Are you sure the poules have finished?

How come the poules are not complete? Unless there were a serious amount not turned up...

pigeonmeister
-1st October 2009, 10:32
MF

L64
Kenbers vs Lei (CHN)
Kruse vs Or (ISR)
Halsted vs Hedenskog (SWE)

Assuming things go well (and broadly to form), this could be the L16

Kenber vs Joppich (GER)
Kruse vs Getz (USA)
Halsted vs Cassara (ITA)

pigeonmeister
-1st October 2009, 10:35
Are you sure the poules have finished?

How come the poules are not complete? Unless there were a serious amount not turned up...

Graham Watts' twitter appears far more reliable

"All 3 British girls are directly through to the L64 on Sunday - well done"

It appears that all three won 3 fights.

Red
-1st October 2009, 10:38
Are you sure the poules have finished?

How come the poules are not complete? Unless there were a serious amount not turned up...

According to Graham's twitter, they're all through.

WS L64 tableau is up - http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/sfs-in/tableau_b64.htm - Winner of KK and Chrystall gets Kharlan. Winner of Jojo and Berder (FRA) gets Bao (CHN) or Kubissa (GER).

MF L64 tableau is up - http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/fms-in/tableau_b64.htm
Kenber gets Lei (CHN) before probably getting Schlosser (AUT)
If all goes to plan, Kruse should get Le Pechoux (FRA) or Zhu (CHN) in the L8 before Joppich (or Kenber?) in the semi.
Provided Laurence can deal with his Swede, he should get Huang (CHN) in the L32 to meet Cassara in the L16.

Insipiens
-1st October 2009, 12:25
WF L64 tableau
http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/ffs-in/tableau_b64.htm

and poule placings are up.

http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/ffs-in/claspoules.htm

All three Brits one after another in the rankings (30, 31, 32) with what looks like tough L64 fights.

Threestain
-1st October 2009, 12:27
As ever massive - 21 poules, with something like 160 (before a slew of withdrawals). That gives roughly 2 de fights after the poules just to get to the 64!

Some lovely tough and random poules too.

Results filtering through from Graham (http://twitter.com/PD4BF) - good work there!

The live feed is even working too (http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/ems-in/poules.htm).

Tom B - 1/6 - finished
Tom C - 4/6 - finished
James T - 1/6 - finished

Difficult to say where the cut is with all the withdrawals. It should be around the 28-42 mark.

Red
-1st October 2009, 12:30
(30, 31, 32)
+16 ;)

In ME...
Bennett - 1/6, -13
Cadman - 4/6, +6
Taylor - 1/6, -11

Fenwick (IRL) has one more poule fight to go

tigger
-1st October 2009, 12:43
Re the Iranian fencer forfeiting.

I've been told (by an Israeli admittedly) that the Iranian fencers are not permitted to compete against Israelis, and always forfeit if drawn against them.

I've seen this happen at a sabre GP last year.

Not sure if this is a government or fencing federation rule, but I guess the penalty might be fairly severe if the fencer disobeyed, so don't necessarily conclude the fencer is at fault!

RE: Louise BW. Tough pool and tough draw, and to be honest she's 2 or 3 months ahead of what we expected after her injuries last year. I'm sure she'll be back to top form for the World Cup season in 2010

Red
-1st October 2009, 12:44
Fenwick has also finished - 2/6, -10

One more poule fight to go in the competition. It looks as if only Cadman will have survived.

Threestain
-1st October 2009, 12:46
So:

35/136 - TC
125/136 - JT
127/136 - TB

105/136 - AF

The seedings do not show the withdrawals.

Red
-1st October 2009, 12:49
Re Iranians.

It looks as if something similar happened in ME poules 7 and 12. IRI fencer abandoned in a poule with an ISR.

Threestain
-1st October 2009, 12:55
Lists are up:

146 in poules.

10 withdrawals - including Christophe Kneip (GER).
Cut to 109
Top 16 off -> 93 in DE.

Only TC through.

He has to fence Gantsevich (CAN) or Tarkovskij (NOR) for a place in the 64.

Red
-1st October 2009, 12:55
Cadman and Fenwick through.

(and once again, beaten to it :rolleyes: )

pigeonmeister
-1st October 2009, 13:06
Re the Iranian fencer forfeiting.

I've been told (by an Israeli admittedly) that the Iranian fencers are not permitted to compete against Israelis, and always forfeit if drawn against them.

I've seen this happen at a sabre GP last year.

Not sure if this is a government or fencing federation rule, but I guess the penalty might be fairly severe if the fencer disobeyed, so don't necessarily conclude the fencer is at fault!

Yep, you're right.

I initially thought that Iranians always refused to compete against Israelis- see swimming boycotts in Beijing and Rome of 2008 and 2009 and the Miresmaili case in Athens. Miresmaili was mysteriously over the weight limit in the pre-fight medical and thus did not fight his 1st round Israeli opponent in the Judo competition. Mirresmaili, Iranian Press, and the statements of various politicians, indicated that it was a personal decision. Nevertheless, the government awarded him $125,000- the same amount awarded to gold medalists.

Then I decided to check the FIE site- which indicated that the Iranian sabreur, Shormasti, had recorded a victory against Yaniv Maimon this year in Istanbul.

This made me question whether it was indeed down to individual consciences. However, I checked the result of the Maimon vs Shormasti fight and it was actually 0:0 (DE fight) and Maimon was placed higher. I assume that this is how forfits are recoded- but that the FIE had incorrectly indicated a Shormasti victory.

All rather pathetic- but at least there is an opening, perhaps sometime in the future, for a sporting contest to become politically symbolic gesture.

Sorry if this is boring people- it's kind of professionally interesting to me!

Red
-1st October 2009, 13:54
And Fenwick is out 15/5 to a Norwegian in the 1st round of prelim. DE.

munkey
-1st October 2009, 15:03
Tom Cadman beats Tarkovskij 15-9 to progress into L64. Nice!

pigeonmeister
-1st October 2009, 15:51
From Twitter:

"Chris Buxton has been withdrawn from the individual mens sabre event but we hope he is still available for the team event"

fa266
-1st October 2009, 15:55
Might this be because of other (hopefully good) news?

Insipiens
-1st October 2009, 15:58
All three Brits one after another in the rankings (30, 31, 32)
+16 ;)

In ME...
Bennett - 1/6, -13
Cadman - 4/6, +6
Taylor - 1/6, -11

Fenwick (IRL) has one more poule fight to go

I did mean the rankings of those who fought in the poules but wasn't really paying too much attention. Already a better WF result than St Petersburg in 2006/7.

Insipiens
-1st October 2009, 16:12
Mens Epee L64 Tableau now available

http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/ems-in/tableau_b64.htm

Cadman vs Anton Avdeev [Rus].

Tubby
-1st October 2009, 16:21
"All 3 British girls are directly through to the L64 on Sunday - well done" C'mon! Don't care if its the wrong pointy, it GB, c'mon!

tigger
-1st October 2009, 16:59
Chris is in Truro awaiting the arrival of his and Jenny's firstborn (now overdue...).

Hopefully he can make it out there for the team, all being well in the next few days!

UglyBug
-1st October 2009, 17:51
Someone forgot to tell the baby when to be born by!!

Hot Bot
-1st October 2009, 18:33
Someone forgot to tell the baby when to be born by!!
Not only that, but it's also being born in the wrong time of the year!
Good luck to Bucko and Jenny.

cesh_fencing
-1st October 2009, 21:37
WF L64 tableau

All three Brits one after another in the rankings (30, 31, 32) with what looks like tough L64 fights.


First time in many a year that 3 of our ladies foilists have got into the L64 in the worlds together. However with the new intl points system, with 85 in the event, they need to get into the L64 to get GB points.

Good luck to all 3...

Red
-1st October 2009, 22:01
However with the new intl points system, with 85 in the event, they need to get into the L64 to get GB points.

I think you meant L32, and secondly we really don't know that. The ranking scheme still hasn't been published.

Foilling Around
-1st October 2009, 22:40
WF L64 tableau
http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/ffs-in/tableau_b64.htm

and poule placings are up.

http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/ffs-in/claspoules.htm

All three Brits one after another in the rankings (30, 31, 32) with what looks like tough L64 fights.

Claire has Ambika Singh whom I have seen fencer a number of times and seems to be on fire, but this is way beyond any form she has shown in the Junior of Senior Season so far - let's hope she goes back to past form tomorrow.

Anna has the Russian with the long name who seems to have been in great form in the poules and has been regularly making L16 in WCs and GPs

Martina has Dai of China who won all her fights, but not convincingly. (Claire took 3 hits off her) She is also typically a L64 fencer in WCs and GPs

I would say that Martina and Claire have fighting chances of making L32 if they fence to their best whilst Anna has a harder job on her hands.

Good luck to all of them - WF needs a good shot in the arm.

hokers
-2nd October 2009, 09:33
Neil and Alex both 2 up 4 down after poules.

AussieMongrel
-2nd October 2009, 09:50
And about to fight to get in to 64, come on guys!!!!

Mr long sword
-2nd October 2009, 09:55
!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm on the edge of my seat!!!!!!!!!!

Mr long sword
-2nd October 2009, 09:57
15-7 go neil!!!!!!!

Mr long sword
-2nd October 2009, 09:58
15-7 Alex!!!!!!

JulianRose
-2nd October 2009, 10:00
I may be jumping the gun, but is this already the best worlds we have had in terms of numbers getting through to L64, and percentages of fencers getting through to L64?

hokers
-2nd October 2009, 10:01
Both through! Get in!

AussieMongrel
-2nd October 2009, 10:06
AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wooo Hooo!

Great work guys! Obviously Mr Longsword and myself allowing them both to give us a good kicking on Monday night was the preparation they both needed ;-)

Mr long sword
-2nd October 2009, 10:10
Correction...The Mongrel was kicked...I felt more 'educated'...

UglyBug
-2nd October 2009, 10:39
Your generosity knows no bounds.

Am assuming with 2 up, 4 down they were the lower seeds in their fights? What seeding do they now have in the L64?

Meg_SF
-2nd October 2009, 10:59
Seems to be going really, really well!!! I'm loving being able to follow it all on twitter, hope this happens more often :-)

GO TEAM GB!!!!

Behind you 110%

hokers
-2nd October 2009, 11:10
Your generosity knows no bounds.

Am assuming with 2 up, 4 down they were the lower seeds in their fights? What seeding do they now have in the L64?

58/59

http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/resultats/sms-in/claspoules.htm

Threestain
-2nd October 2009, 11:15
amazing that the german team in WE are all in the top 16.

Damn!

JulianRose
-2nd October 2009, 12:16
that was their seeding after the poule, not going through to the DE.

First take off the top 16 from the list you have there. Then work out the tableu. This gives you the L96 fights.

See who wins. Then write out the list of winners in order of seeding going into the L96.

Add them to the 16 who were exempt from poules, and the 16 who qualified directly from the poules, and you can work out the L64.

basically alex and neil are likely to be seeded at the bottom of the L64 and so have very hard fights to get into the 32.

cesh_fencing
-2nd October 2009, 12:36
Both girls safely through poules - Lawrence 4/6, Albini 3/6.

Corinna was 4 up no down and then lost the last 2 fights 5-4, so near to a straight bye...

Red
-2nd October 2009, 12:52
Another case of 'I will not fence the Israeli!' in MS poule 7...

Well done to Alex and Neil :not_worth

munkey
-2nd October 2009, 12:55
Loving Graham Watts' tweets. Comment on Iranian fencers' withdrawing when faced with an Israeli opponent, the gossip that Canada won't pay for their fencers to go to the Commonwealths and that their funded fencers won't be allowed to go, plenty of remarks about inept organisation particularly regarding Chris Buxton's withdrawal and an interesting bit about two Chinese sabreurs not being selected because of arguing with the national coach. Plus updates on every single fight involving a GB fencer. Brilliant!

Munkey

Mr long sword
-2nd October 2009, 13:12
Neil vs Limbach
Alex vs Lopez

AussieMongrel
-2nd October 2009, 13:30
Neil lost to Limbach 15 - 14 last time they met. Lopez is your favorite fencer to watch Mr Longsword but i am betting you will be cheering on Alex.

Mr long sword
-2nd October 2009, 13:35
I will take you up on that bet.

Red
-2nd October 2009, 13:36
Corinna through, Albini out.

cesh_fencing
-2nd October 2009, 13:43
Corinna through.

Well done Corinna, couple of days off and then time to focus again.

hokers
-2nd October 2009, 13:51
I will take you up on that bet.

Dude. That's not cool.

Skartha
-2nd October 2009, 14:05
Another case of 'I will not fence the Israeli!' in MS poule 7...


How much bluiddy money do they waste sending athletes to competitions?

I like Limbach (similar sort of build to me so I like watching him) - but obviously hoping that Mr H has a stormer and makes it through. Good luck to him and Mr O'C, beating either Lopez or Limbach would be a coup.

Mr long sword
-2nd October 2009, 14:10
Hold on....In sport can we not support who we want..?
For football I support Brazil not england and have done since the 70's is there something wrong with that..?

Get outta here with that 'dude thats not cool' nonsense.

Red
-2nd October 2009, 15:07
Corinna gets XU Anqi (CHN) in the L64 on Monday.

pinkelephant
-2nd October 2009, 15:19
110%

Pet hate

...rantono

hokers
-2nd October 2009, 15:28
Hold on....In sport can we not support who we want..?
For football I support Brazil not england and have done since the 70's is there something wrong with that..?
Get outta here with that 'dude thats not cool' nonsense.

How about "unnecessarily unpatriotic" then?

Rest of discussion by PM.

Mr long sword
-2nd October 2009, 16:40
I respect and support individuals based on what I like, talent and style etc not based on if I know them or they live in the same country as me.

cesh_fencing
-2nd October 2009, 18:44
Corinna gets XU Anqi (CHN) in the L64 on Monday.

I am surprised the chinese had sent XU as she is only about the 8th ranked fencer on the world rankings. Looks like they are blooding their youngsters as it is the year after the olympics.

Anyway at Junior level Corinna has actually generally performed far more successfully than XU so it should be an interesting match with Corinna having a great chance.

With the 3 day gap it will all be about who wakes up focussed on the day of the match.. Go girl...

Tubby
-2nd October 2009, 21:38
Isn't this fantastic and uplifting? All the results so far; and particularly Corinna's. I'll need to do some research but other than the Cole Cup satellites in Gateshead, has Corinna done any other FIE senior competitions? Not that it matters, but how awesome if this was her first full senior FIE event.

What Chris says - Go Girl.

smiley
-2nd October 2009, 22:30
Isn't this fantastic and uplifting? All the results so far; and particularly Corinna's. I'll need to do some research but other than the Cole Cup satellites in Gateshead, has Corinna done any other FIE senior competitions? Not that it matters, but how awesome if this was her first full senior FIE event.

What Chris says - Go Girl.

Congratulations to all the Brits.

Good luck Corinna......

Red
-3rd October 2009, 00:33
Isn't this fantastic and uplifting? All the results so far; and particularly Corinna's. I'll need to do some research but other than the Cole Cup satellites in Gateshead, has Corinna done any other FIE senior competitions? Not that it matters, but how awesome if this was her first full senior FIE event.

What Chris says - Go Girl.

She's done a little bit more than that in the last three years :rolleyes:

Gildas Braine
-3rd October 2009, 07:40
Jojo wins her L64 15-14 against Berder (FRA)!!
She was 8-6 down at the break, then 11-8 down, then 11 all, 13-11 down, 13 all, 14-13 down.
She now fences Kubissa GER who knocked out Bao CHN, the 13th seed.

Chrystall leads 8-6 at the break against KK.

Gildas Braine
-3rd October 2009, 07:56
Chrystall wins 15-11, and will fence Kharlan at 8.45 uk time.
Jojo fences Kubissa at 8.30.

Hoboneer
-3rd October 2009, 07:58
Woo go girls!! Safe to say we're having an impressive championships :)

Gildas Braine
-3rd October 2009, 08:37
jojo on the piste, 4-2 down

Gildas Braine
-3rd October 2009, 08:40
jojo 8-7 down at the break

Gildas Braine
-3rd October 2009, 08:42
12-7 down

Gildas Braine
-3rd October 2009, 08:44
13-12 down

Gildas Braine
-3rd October 2009, 08:46
Jojo out 15-12 in the last 32 in her first international competition for 6 months.

Skartha
-3rd October 2009, 08:59
Oh, the live thing is working.

Chrystall 11-9 down against Kharlan (scored three in a row mind you)

Edit: 11 each!

edit: 15-13 to Kharlan. Good little fightback though.

Mr long sword
-3rd October 2009, 09:48
These results show just how strong Jojo and Chrystall are...After the initial disappointment of losing they must be excited about the next couple of international seasons...Go gals..!

Foil next..!

thefiftyniner
-3rd October 2009, 11:04
http://www.live.fie.ch/antalya/encours-fms-in.php

Refreshing every 25secs

AussieMongrel
-3rd October 2009, 11:27
These results show just how strong Jojo and Chrystall are...After the initial disappointment of losing they must be excited about the next couple of international seasons...Go gals..!

Foil next..!


Agreed well done guys!!

rpryer
-3rd October 2009, 11:48
Richard Kruse 12-8 up going into the third period (he was 8-5 down)

rpryer
-3rd October 2009, 11:49
And he wins 15-10

rpryer
-3rd October 2009, 11:58
Kenber and Halstead both out in the L64

Mr long sword
-3rd October 2009, 13:37
Kruse Missile!!!!

Mr long sword
-3rd October 2009, 13:45
More good news for Kruse, JOPPICH goes out..!

Mr long sword
-3rd October 2009, 13:53
Seems the FIE site fooled me..!

Coupe du Nord
-3rd October 2009, 14:39
Kruse loses to Getz 11-15

mozzar
-3rd October 2009, 17:04
Seems like a pretty dissapointing day for men's foil.

Mr long sword
-4th October 2009, 09:26
Remember....7am for Neil vs Limp Back and 7.45am for Alex vs Lopez....!
A little video footage on you tube, not much...

Red
-4th October 2009, 09:39
All the girls out in the L64. The tableau is playing up with me, so can't really see what the scores were.

Coupe du Nord
-4th October 2009, 10:29
Martina lost 14-15 after being 14-11 up.
Missed the other two.

Coupe du Nord
-4th October 2009, 10:34
Bennett lost 11-12 on time.
Bentley lost 6-15

cesh_fencing
-4th October 2009, 16:51
I'll need to do some research but other than the Cole Cup satellites in Gateshead, has Corinna done any other FIE senior competitions? .

In the last 2 seasons she has only done Nankin each season (invited to make up the Ladies Epee team, but did not deal with the travel too well I feel) as she has been concentrating on the juniors.

With so many junior events to do and her success over the past few seasons at her correct age-group (at World/Euro championships), I did not see personally any reason for her to have been exposed excessively to the senior circuit and I feel her cadet/junior results have benefited from her smart choice.

Now she is in the final year of Juniors it is the right time to start at senior level and she has shown that there is no need to dive into senior events too early. A good start in her quest to put herself in the frame for London 2012.

Good luck for tomorrow Corinna.

Threestain
-4th October 2009, 21:16
Sadly Tom C managed to meet the men's epee gold medallist a few rounds too early...

Avdeev 1st, Tagliarol 2nd, Abajo and Jeannet third.

Mr long sword
-5th October 2009, 07:15
So close for Neil..!
He was in touch all the way and ahead a few times. Edge of seat stuff again.
15-13..!

AussieMongrel
-5th October 2009, 08:13
Got a text from Neil saying that he had 3 hits over ruled on video replay, would have won 15 - 12 if it was not for that. So close to a major scalp for Neil. He can certainly walk away from that fight with his head held high!

Red
-5th October 2009, 11:13
Corinna is on now - 3/2 up at the first break.

Red
-5th October 2009, 11:21
5/8 down at the second break.

hokers
-5th October 2009, 11:26
Out 12-15

AussieMongrel
-5th October 2009, 16:41
And Limbach is world champ. Neil got the most hits off him all day.

Red
-5th October 2009, 17:12
Before comparisons are drawn with previous years, remember that the format has changed this year (4 fencers per nation as opposed to 3).

13 out of 18 made the L64 (including all WF). For GBR, that's huge especially given the increased strength of the competition.

JohnL
-5th October 2009, 20:20
Red

You don't have to compare to last year. The results so far are disappointing to say the least.

1 in the L16 (and Richard K would no doubt be disappointed with that.

For a country that are trying to acheive success at international level, the L64 should be seen for what it is. Failure.

I will support the guys/girls efforts until my last breath, but your suggestion that this level of performance is anything other than poor is simply to misunderstand the objectives.

I hope for better results in the team events and I'm sure they do to.

Mr long sword
-5th October 2009, 22:19
I think Jojo finishing in 21st place at the World Championships after a long time off with injury is pretty good and far from 'poor'.

Red
-6th October 2009, 00:33
JohnL,

Ignore the first part of my last post - it's apparently wrong, so they are comparable.

In 2005....

WF - 1xL64
ME - 3xL128
MS - 1xL64, 1xL128
WE - nobody
MF - 1xL16, 1xL32, 2xL64
WS - 4xL64

10 L64 or better, 2 L32 or better, 1 L16 (out of 14)

In 2006....

WF - nobody
ME - 2xL128
MS - 2xL64
WE - nobody
MF - 1xL32, 3xL64
WS - 1xL32, 2xL64, 1xL128

9 L64 or better, 2 L32 (out of 12)

In 2007....

WF - 1xL64, 3xL128
ME - 2xL64, 1xL128
MS - 2xL64, 1xL128
WE - 1xL128
MF - 1xL16, 2xL64, 1xL128
WS - 4xL64

12 L64 or better, 1 L16 (out of 19)

In 2009....

WF - 3xL64
ME - 1xL64, 2xL256
MS - 2xL64
WE - 1xL64, 1xL128
MF - 1xL16, 2xL64, 1xL128
WS - 2xL32, 1xL64, 1xL128

13 L64 or better, 3 L32 or better, 1 L16 (out of 18)

WS, WE and WF are all improved on 2, 3 and 4 years ago.
MS improved on 2 years ago.
Injuries and the miracle of life have got in the way of greater success in MS, WS and ME.
After the Euros and this season generally, MF may have been disappointing but that may be an effect of them getting taken a lot more seriously by Johnny Foreigner than they used to.

I think a weapon going from nothing three years ago to a result of any kind is a huge success, but then again I may be weird. I have no idea what the goals of the fencers were, but I'd assume that this competition is nothing more than one small step on the way to London. If the experience of this helps them get to London, then who really gives a damn what the results of this year are?
In general though, the results are better than they have been for at least 4 years. Not by much - but there is improvement.

rpryer
-6th October 2009, 10:05
The WS team beat Singapore in the L32 before losing to number 1 seeds Ukraine in the L16. They must then have lost their match in the 9-16 round (that page is not working on the website) as they shortly fence Spain in the 13-16 round.

rpryer
-6th October 2009, 10:46
The MF team had a bye to the L16, where they have just beaten Canada. They face Russia in the L8.

rpryer
-6th October 2009, 10:49
The WS team beat Spain 45-38 and will now fence Canada for 13th place.

(The 9-16 match was against Hungary, 45-40)

Gav
-6th October 2009, 11:22
JohnL,

Ignore the first part of my last post - it's apparently wrong, so they are comparable.

In 2005....

WF - 1xL64
ME - 3xL128
MS - 1xL64, 1xL128
WE - nobody
MF - 1xL16, 1xL32, 2xL64
WS - 4xL64

10 L64 or better, 2 L32 or better, 1 L16 (out of 14)

In 2006....

WF - nobody
ME - 2xL128
MS - 2xL64
WE - nobody
MF - 1xL32, 3xL64
WS - 1xL32, 2xL64, 1xL128

9 L64 or better, 2 L32 (out of 12)

In 2007....

WF - 1xL64, 3xL128
ME - 2xL64, 1xL128
MS - 2xL64, 1xL128
WE - 1xL128
MF - 1xL16, 2xL64, 1xL128
WS - 4xL64

12 L64 or better, 1 L16 (out of 19)

In 2009....

WF - 3xL64
ME - 1xL64, 2xL256
MS - 2xL64
WE - 1xL64, 1xL128
MF - 1xL16, 2xL64, 1xL128
WS - 2xL32, 1xL64, 1xL128

13 L64 or better, 3 L32 or better, 1 L16 (out of 18)

WS, WE and WF are all improved on 2, 3 and 4 years ago.
MS improved on 2 years ago.
Injuries and the miracle of life have got in the way of greater success in MS, WS and ME.
After the Euros and this season generally, MF may have been disappointing but that may be an effect of them getting taken a lot more seriously by Johnny Foreigner than they used to.

If you are only basing your analysis on this handful of stats then I don't think that your conclusions are sound. MF is the only one to show improvement but, going by these stats, that happened last time and so they have stagnated this year.

The problem is that your sample size is far too small.

However if your analysis draws upon other data your conclusions may be sound but you would need to demonstrate them so that they can be properly evaluated.

This may sound like I am being picky but I just don't think you can make the claims you have using these figures.


I think a weapon going from nothing three years ago to a result of any kind is a huge success, but then again I may be weird. I have no idea what the goals of the fencers were, but I'd assume that this competition is nothing more than one small step on the way to London. If the experience of this helps them get to London, then who really gives a damn what the results of this year are?

I don't think any fencer who goes to the World Championships thinks they are merely a small step on the way to the London Olympics...

Rdb811
-6th October 2009, 11:39
If you are only basing your analysis on this handful of stats then I don't think that your conclusions are sound. MF is the only one to show improvement but, going by these stats, that happened last time and so they have stagnated this year.

The problem is that your sample size is far too small.

However if your analysis draws upon other data your conclusions may be sound but you would need to demonstrate them so that they can be properly evaluated.

This may sound like I am being picky but I just don't think you can make the claims you have using these figures.



The analysis is the entire population of World Championship individual reults, not a sample -that's all there is to work on.
You could try some non-parametric tests if you wanted to. But you can't do anything about the sample size - on that basis you'd be saying one world champion winner was avalid case for saying we'd got better.

rpryer
-6th October 2009, 11:45
After 3 fights, the MF team trail 11-6

MatFink
-6th October 2009, 12:25
GB leading going into final match

33 -32

last match Halstead versus Ganeev

good luck

MatFink
-6th October 2009, 12:34
33 33 sudden death time

pigeonmeister
-6th October 2009, 12:37
Lost- gutted

MatFink
-6th October 2009, 12:40
According to GW tweet as the FIE system fell over at 33 all with 11 seconds to go.

Win or lose that comeback was a heroic performance, I for one believe this is a team that can deliver a medal in London.

Well done. It is sad to lose by 1, but a great team performance none the less.

Red
-6th October 2009, 13:03
I don't think any fencer who goes to the World Championships thinks they are merely a small step on the way to the London Olympics...

This seems to be the approach of the PD. His job is to get Olympic medals.
Yes MF didn't do as brilliantly as everybody hoped, but if they pull off performances like they did in the poules at A grades and GPs this year, then brilliant results will happen throughout next season.
As I said before, the women (all of them) seem to be going much better than they have for quite some time.

MF have POL in the 5-8.

Coupe du Nord
-6th October 2009, 13:20
WS LOST to Canada in fence off for 13th place. Lost 43-45
MF now fencing Poland.

rpryer
-6th October 2009, 14:19
MF beat Poland and will face Japan for 5th place

rpryer
-6th October 2009, 16:11
The team finishes 6th after losing to Japan.

cesh_fencing
-6th October 2009, 16:54
The analysis is the entire population of World Championship individual reults, not a sample -that's all there is to work on. .

The only analysis that needs to be done is for the PD to be able to wrap these results up in a suitable way to show that British fencers have shown enough progress to give a good chance of progressing towards medal success at London and have not taken a step backwards.

If not and they are seen as a backwards step, then it is up to BF Board to review positions and see if any change would be beneficial to the chances of a British Fencer/s winning a medal in London.

Other issues that also could be reviewed by the BF board is the coaching staff involved and whether there are ways that improved results could occur with differing coaching teams.

I am not saying that should happen, however it should probably be looked at at the end of each international season anyway so we can all be assured the correct coaches are working with our best fencers to give the best chance of success.

aao
-6th October 2009, 17:42
Impressively diplomatic Cesh ;) ou've been listening to the party conferences haven't you?

Lets not beat around the bush, the individual results are worse than was either expected or hoped for and will need to be looked at to find out why.

Personally I think Mens foil just had an off day as their results throughout the season have been excellent and there seems to be good strength in depth and no reason to suspect that they will be anything but competitive in 3 years times.

The other weapons do have to look at themselves, in some cases fencers underperformed, in some they were just unlucky, and in some they possibly aren't good enough. In the case of those who underperformed if it was a one off thing then so be it we all have bad days, if they regularily do, then questions have to be asked about their mental toughness at these top events.

I agree with Cesh on the coaching and PD front, I have always been a believer that the PD and coaches should all have their performances reviewed just as stringently as the fencers. Not just on one event of course, but on the season as a whole, and if results have not improved then they should also be reponsible for some of the blame and consequences (thats why we employ them).
People have taken alot of credit for the good things that have happened in mens foil (and occassionally sabre) in the past couple of years, but nobody ever seems to be prepared to step up and accept the blame when things do not go right with the other weapons.

Miss_P
-6th October 2009, 21:00
Quote from PD's Tweet

"Rumours abound that FIE Executive has voted to recommend that Womens sabre and Mens Epee team events are excluded from 2012"

Lee Spiers
-6th October 2009, 21:57
If you are only basing your analysis on this handful of stats then I don't think that your conclusions are sound. MF is the only one to show improvement but, going by these stats, that happened last time and so they have stagnated this year.

The problem is that your sample size is far too small.

However if your analysis draws upon other data your conclusions may be sound but you would need to demonstrate them so that they can be properly evaluated.

This may sound like I am being picky but I just don't think you can make the claims you have using these figures.



I don't think any fencer who goes to the World Championships thinks they are merely a small step on the way to the London Olympics...

Gav you is proper clever ! thought all you goth dudes do is eat bats an dat?


;)

hokers
-7th October 2009, 10:31
WF team beats Kazahkstan 40-32
ME team loses to USA 31-41

WF team loses to Italy 45-23

"GB mens sabre team withdrawn from tomorrow's event due to a happy event elsewhere"

Red
-7th October 2009, 10:52
MFT finished 6th, now 6th in world ranking - level on points with FRA in 5th.
WST now 16th in the world.

hokers
-7th October 2009, 10:57
MFT finished 6th, now 6th in world ranking - level on points with FRA in 5th.
WST now 16th in the world.

Remind me of the Olympic qualification rules about teams qualifying individuals?

Red
-7th October 2009, 11:03
Remind me of the Olympic qualification rules about teams qualifying individuals?

For Beijing - top 4 teams, then best of the rest with one from each zone. If qualifying was today, MF would not go. 3 entries into the individual per qualified team.
If the rules are the same for London, to guarantee qualification you need to be 5th in the world or higher.

hokers
-7th October 2009, 11:31
For Beijing - top 4 teams, then best of the rest with one from each zone. If qualifying was today, MF would not go. 3 entries into the individual per qualified team.
If the rules are the same for London, to guarantee qualification you need to be 5th in the world or higher.

But one more point to put us above France would do it? Sounds good.

Do you still get to send an entrant to the zonal qualifier if you have a team qualified? Presumably not.

Red
-7th October 2009, 11:45
But one more point to put us above France would do it? Sounds good.

Do you still get to send an entrant to the zonal qualifier if you have a team qualified? Presumably not.

I think the qualifiers are only open to those NOCs that don't have somebody qualified by ranking.
So... If the team didn't qualify and Richard did (by ranking) as an individual, Laurence wouldn't be able to go to the qualifier.

JulianRose
-7th October 2009, 12:10
this is correct, but he could get a wildcard, and GB could use some of their 8 spots to send him.

the thing i don't know is if Richard qualifies automatically, does GB only have to use up 2 spots of the 8 to get to enter a team, and if this is the case do those entered for the team also get to do the individual or does entering them into the individual use up another 2 spots?

cesh_fencing
-7th October 2009, 12:19
the thing i don't know is if Richard qualifies automatically, does GB only have to use up 2 spots of the 8 to get to enter a team, and if this is the case do those entered for the team also get to do the individual or does entering them into the individual use up another 2 spots?

Think wildcards are only available for individuals as the team event qualifies the correct number of teams to go straight into the DE. If GB foil team does not qualify by right they can only get in as individuals.

Red
-7th October 2009, 12:33
Think wildcards are only available for individuals as the team event qualifies the correct number of teams to go straight into the DE. If GB foil team does not qualify by right they can only get in as individuals.

Cesh, host nation spaces typically go on 2 teams and 2 individuals as that seems to be the best way to get as many fencers into as many events as possible. If there are 9 teams due to the hosts, then an incomplete L16 is run.
A team consumes 3 of the spaces, but I don't think anybody has been in a position to do that before (Individual qualified, team through on host spaces). Presumably this was accounted for in the qualification scheme.

aao
-7th October 2009, 13:19
Unless the rules have changed since 2004 I am sure some of the fencers at the Euro qualifiers were there despite the fact that their nation had already qualified a team in that event.

Also are you sure it is only 8 spots and not 12 that are available? I've been told by a number of the internationals that we have 12 spots up for grabs.

Red
-7th October 2009, 13:25
Unless the rules have changed since 2004 I am sure some of the fencers at the Euro qualifiers were there despite the fact that their nation had already qualified a team in that event.

Also are you sure it is only 8 spots and not 12 that are available? I've been told by a number of the internationals that we have 12 spots up for grabs.

It was 8 in Athens and Beijing. In principle there are 16 places (4x3 + 2x2) if at least 8 people qualify.

JulianRose
-7th October 2009, 13:34
i don't understand you maths to get to 16.

Red
-7th October 2009, 13:48
i don't understand you maths to get to 16.

Max number of athletes in events with team events = 3
Max number of athletes in events with no team event = 2
4 team events = max 12 athletes
2 no team events = max 4 athletes
12 + 4 = 16

JulianRose
-7th October 2009, 14:06
ah right. a max number of athletes a nation could take.

i was going off into tangents that i can't be bothered to explain in words.

tigger
-8th October 2009, 15:36
It would be quite a surprise if WS is excluded from the team event in London - I don't think many people anticipated that. Not great news for GB as WS is our 2nd strongest team.

Red
-9th October 2009, 01:07
It would be quite a surprise if WS is excluded from the team event in London - I don't think many people anticipated that. Not great news for GB as WS is our 2nd strongest team.

But MS gets the biggest audiences. Maybe that figured into the discussions somehow.

pinkelephant
-9th October 2009, 08:52
Cutting out ME cuts out an awful lot of countries completely.

Miss_P
-9th October 2009, 09:22
Cutting WS will be a right biff for the USA

fa266
-9th October 2009, 10:47
Maybe not on their current form...

Gav
-9th October 2009, 13:06
It's ok guys because rugby 7s and golf will be in the Olympics.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/8292584.stm

mozzar
-9th October 2009, 18:07
I can't understand the need to have popular sports in the Olympics (football, rugby, tennis, golf, etc.). They all have their own major competitions which are far more prestigious for them. Surprised squash hasn't made it in though.

Rdb811
-9th October 2009, 18:22
I can't understand the need to have popular sports in the Olympics (football, rugby, tennis, golf, etc.). They all have their own major competitions which are far more prestigious for them. Surprised squash hasn't made it in though.


it's not very TV friendly.

fenderstrat
-9th October 2009, 18:37
Golf, ffs.

MrsB
-9th October 2009, 18:57
Golf, ffs.

Fenderstrat
I didn't understand all of the arguments about what was being dropped and why but i think your post is crystal clear!

fenderstrat
-9th October 2009, 19:21
heh! :)

Gav
-14th October 2009, 15:12
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=sportsnetwork&view=videos&query=fencing

Some footage of the recent WCs here. I haven't checked FIEvideos on youtube.

Cyrano5
-25th October 2009, 15:39
Anyone know when/if this world champs will come out on DVD?