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tigger
-24th December 2003, 15:22
Just wondering what the exact rule on 13 year olds entering competitions is?? I'm under the impression that a fencer must be over 13 on Jan 1st of the year in question before being allowed to compete in any senior event? However I know a number of juniors (inc 1 from my club) who have fenced in senior opens in foil, epee and sabre at the age of 13, despite being under 13 on Jan 1st of the year in question. Is this down to organisers discretion or is it a hard-and-fast rule which some organisers are overlooking/ignoring?

I think it's a dumb rule anyway, and that other criteria should be applied - eg top 20/25 in cadet ranking qualifies U13s to participate in seniors.

Eddie
-24th December 2003, 19:53
I am not sure what the rule is but I agree it is dumb considering we have loads of young fencers who are 13 or so who can ably hold their own at opens.

Maybe it was originally put there to preserve the pride of some less able senior fencers who would possibly get beaten by such youngsters :o

Eddie

whatsUp
-26th December 2003, 16:40
The age is the age on 1st January of the season that you are fencing.

Currently the season is 2003/04 therefore the age is as of 1st January 2004 to compete in all the opens from September 2003 to July / August 2004.

As a parent with fencing offspring (one born Sept, one Feb) I think I understand the ruling

Regards

Colin

tigger
-26th December 2003, 16:51
I've always understood it to be the year on question NOT the season. This is also backed up by the age criteria on some of the open entry forms.

I know of a couple of fencers who have fenced in opens despite being under the 'year' age limit, though they would fall within the 'season' age limit. They were 13 at the time but under 13 in that year. I'm wondering does the organiser of an open have discretion on this or not?? or is it a case of blind-eye or cock-up? or is the rule applied to the season not the calendar year?

PM1
-26th December 2003, 23:06
So far as I am aware, whatsup is correct - to fence this season, ie 03/04, you need to be 13 on/by (not sure which) 1st Jan 04.

I was a very confused mum for a couple of years on this (no smart comments about still being one....), as not all competitions run the same, such as being a certain age on the date of the actual comp. BUT so far as I'm aware, the rules for opens is as above. There have been some cock ups.......

The rule is probably a safety one introduced by - FIE?? don't know. But there has to be a lower age limit: top 26 cadets will likely include people who have never fenced in big comps, for one thing, let alone possibly never having fenced wily vets or 6'2" peeps, but there is possibly some room for manoevre.

Will find out the answer to the age this weekend. Unless someone posts it first........not got time to look the rules up at the moment - have to be up at 5, which means I need to go to bed PRETTY soon.............

Neil Brown
-27th December 2003, 19:56
Fencers must be 13 in the season; season is defined by British Fencing as 12 months from the 1st September.

For this season, 03-04, fencers must be born in 1990 or earlier to fence in any event open to fencers 18 or over, i.e. junior & senior Nationals or Regional championships, all opens, etc.

There is no flexibility in this rule. The rule is the same for all FIE events, i.e. World Cups senior & junior, cadet World Championships.

If any of you are involved in running an open please quote the rule in this form "open to fencers born in 1990 or earlier" to avoid this debate in future.

In sabre there has only been 1 occasion of a fencer competing when too young since this rule was introduced a few years ago; I don't know about other weapons.

Hope this is now clear.

Tech
-28th December 2003, 06:03
The rule had been discussed for some time and was introduced after an Open where two small 11 year olds were entered for the Sabre and, despite all the older sabreurs being very careful, the children were reduced to tears. Clearly not a good experience for the children nor good for fencing. The other reason for introducing it was that many sports have banned athletes competing against youngsters after some succesful legal cases - particularly rugby.

Why 13? An age had to be selected, some people wanted an older age and eventually 13 was chosen to bring it into line with the FIE.

The rule - which has been stated clearly on numerous occasions and is on the web site is:

NO FENCER WHO IS UNDER 13 YEARS OF AGE ON JANUARY 1ST IN THE SEASON OF THE EVENT MAY COMPETE IN EVENTS OPEN TO FENCERS OVER 18 YEARS OF AGE.

For British Fencing the season in September 1st to August 31st each year. So for this season the datum line is January 1st 2004 and fencers must be 13 years or older on January 1st 2004.

For the season 2004/05, the datum line will January 1st 2005, for 2005/06......etc.

Hope this clarifies the situation - please let me know if anyone is still puzzled!

;)

tigger
-28th December 2003, 14:52
No longer puzzled.

Keith.A.Smith
-29th December 2003, 17:09
Thanks to Neil and Tech for making the age group ruling clear. It really was to protect our younger fencers. I agree you will always find some good youngsters who can cope but plenty cannot. Not all parents realised that an Open involved adults etc.
Glad this is now clear to all.

Keith

pinkelephant
-2nd January 2004, 12:37
Originally posted by Keith.A.Smith
Thanks to Neil and Tech for making the age group ruling clear. It really was to protect our younger fencers. I agree you will always find some good youngsters who can cope but plenty cannot. Not all parents realised that an Open involved adults etc.
Glad this is now clear to all.

Keith

What's "etc"? Can I be one? I don't want to be an adult.:dizzy:

DonnCarnage
-19th January 2004, 20:13
For British Fencing the season in September 1st to August 31st each year

Point of clarification required...

Do the National Senior Championships in July, for which Cadet and Junior points are awarded for the following season (at least, they are in foil) form part of this or next season?

Would a fencer born in 1991 be able to fence in them? If not, it seems rather unfair that Cadets in their first season are deprived of a competition available to their rivals.

Neil Brown
-19th January 2004, 20:21
Fencers born 91 cannot enter the senior Nationals in 2004.

Fairness or otherwise, talk to the weapon captain.

Sabre will not be nominating this event for junior & cadet next season.

PM1
-20th January 2004, 16:56
Senior champs weren't nominated for cadet male epee this season either: don't know about the coming season i.e., after April this year.