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3 Card Trick
-8th April 2003, 14:46
Is epee so popular because the outcome of a bout is less likely to be influenced by refereeing or other outside influences?:transport:

Barry Paul
-8th April 2003, 16:06
At least five times more people fence foil than epee. So epee had a way to go to catch foil up. 95% of the time the outcome of a bout is decided between the fencers. Referees only come along to spoil it at competitions.

3 Card Trick
-9th April 2003, 21:18
And yet! On any given weekend more epeeists fence in competition than either foilists or sabreurs.
:grin:

tigger
-18th April 2003, 09:36
I'm sure it's cos of reffing. There are more foilists in clubs simply cos we've traditionally started people off on foil :tongue: I know loads of foilists who turned to the dark side cos they were bored with inconsistent refs. :dizzy:

Boo Boo
-18th April 2003, 09:45
In my main club there are always more epeeists than foilists and often more sabreurs too (most beginners in my immediate area are taught sabre rather than foil). This seems a bit of a shame to me, because there are less foilists around because of it and I assume that it is probably harder to go from sabre to foil or epee than from foil to epee of sabre (if that fencer wants to change weapons later on).

Boo

tigger
-18th April 2003, 09:59
It is harder to convert from sabre to other weapons. But u have to capture kids imaginations quickly to keep them in the sport. and sabre is more 3 musketeers than the other weapons.

Foil will keep declining til they sort out the rules/interpretation.

Boo Boo
-18th April 2003, 10:10
Yeah, I see what you mean (about the imagination), its just a bit sad *sigh*.

Do you not have the same problems with interpretation in Sabre though (i.e. some good refs giving tempo and some not etc.)?

Internationally, foil refereeing is consistent, its just domestically (especially at less competitive clubs and smaller competitions) that foil refereeing seems to take on a wierd form of its own....

Had a foil match refereed by a woman sabreur last weekend, now that was an experience.... :confused:

Boo

tigger
-18th April 2003, 10:15
I saw J Beevers get robbed of a L16 fight by an inconsistent ref at Copenhagen 'A' grade. As a sabreur (sorry to intrude on your epee page dear things) it seems that relatively experienced fencers and refs agree on what tempo is, what an attack is etc. in foil it seems that different refs (even at top level) have a different view of timing of stop hits, flick attacks etc. And yes, refs never give tempo to ME..,

There's a lack of good refs acroos the board obviously. Especially apparent at the BYCs where there aren't many of the experienced fencers to help out. Some absolute shockers!!
:mad:

Boo Boo
-18th April 2003, 10:33
At Coppenhagen was it definitely in consistency or could it have been bias or a ref being afraid to give it against the other (better known?) fencer? Have heard some shocking things about bias in international competition and have seen some refs unwilling to give perfectly clear hits for a relatively unknown fencer against a top 10 fencer.

My friend's Dad refed a round of foil at the BYCs: he has never refed foil in his life before (is just a "fencing Dad"). I think that he quickly learnt his limitations... (not sure the kids in his poule were very appreciative...).

BYCs are always difficult: there are never enough refs - as a ref there you work hard constantly for two days (am not complaining, just agreeing that more refs need to volunteer to go up and help out).

Boo

3 Card Trick
-18th April 2003, 15:51
Hey, did I just read that referee's work hard? We'll get accused of trying next.:grin:

Boo Boo
-18th April 2003, 16:26
Referees work very hard (I get probably get more worn out refereeing all day, than fencing all day) and often get a lot of stick for their trouble (although I always try to be a good fencer, if a ref makes a dodgy decision against me ;) ).

As for trying, all referees try hard, but some are more "trying" than than others :grin:

Boo
(who really appreciates generous people who give up their free time to referee)

kingkenny
-30th April 2003, 08:39
The problem with epee refereeing is that it is easy 98% of the time its the 2% you have to get right.

:mexwave:

:)

PM1
-1st May 2003, 23:01
...but at least at epee we don't usually get people at the side of the piste ranting and raving because the ref has dared award the hit to the fencer who actually was on the attack when the box registered a hit. It used to tick me off at comps - the crowd that can heckle loudest always seemed to secure the hit for their fencer. Nothing cool in that:cool: In fact, it is the proverbial :moon: and put me off foil. As a parent, I wasn't prepared to have my child bullied in this way, and he got as ticked off with it as me, and gave it up competively and concentrates on epee: his choice, not mine. But will people please own up when they have been hit on the foot?????????

Hudson
-2nd May 2003, 13:04
The good old foot hit. Did it hit or didn't it?
I always try to have floor spotters when i ref a match as i think more people are trying foot hits these days. You'd like to think if a fencer recives a hit on the foot they will say so, i know if i've been hit i'll say so, if i'm not sure or i don't think i've been hit i'll let the ref know and go by his desision.

PM1
-3rd May 2003, 10:02
Well done, Hudson, your mother would/will be proud of you:) Yes, there are more foot hit attempts,I'm sure - my boy sez it's one of his fav hits. And spotters are a good idea IF THEY PAY ATTENTION to what is going on and are not mates of one of the fencers in particular(youngies)Do I sound bitter?!? no, not really. Of any of the weapons, I much prefer to watch epee. And they appear to be a happier lot of fencers, too:mexwave: nowt like good, clear rules - if the light goes on, it's:party: time!!!

pinkelephant
-3rd May 2003, 16:43
Some of us even still acknowledge hits at Foil. We all tend to be terribly ancient, though.:shrug:

sblatchley
-9th May 2003, 11:03
As a new fencer I have gone straight into Epee. It balances all of the components of fencing so well without getting lost in regulations.

To me the romance of the whole thing is re-living what a duel must have felt like. Two gentlemen trying to sort out a matter of honour would not be worried about hit locations or right of way.

Additionally Epee has to be the most televisable blade there is. People can understand it and enjoying watching it, whether they know the rules or not.

Epee for me is anywhere, anytime, anyplace. My favorite has been in Richmond Park, at dawn, using simple testers to register hits. Great fun - pour the Bucks Fizz afterwards, watch the sun come up and get out of the park before people think we're weirdos ;-)

Epee - let's take it to the people!

PM1
-9th May 2003, 18:32
Hey Pinkelephant - here's another end May bday bunny, and he talks sense, too!!!! well, about the epee and the bucks fizz. Should be more avant garde matches, don't you think?? Very grown up, but very interesting, I think....:party: :party:

pinkelephant
-10th May 2003, 22:16
But I don't want to be grown up. Waaaaaahhh!:run:

PM1
-10th May 2003, 23:02
Neither do I - only we know the truth, so let's keep on as we are and we'll get away with it for as long as poss - and anyway, epeeist are the nicest I've met so far...;) ;) so I don't think they'll sprag on us, do you???Party on, dudette:party: :party:

mango
-20th May 2003, 05:42
Why the epee? For me initially I just wanted to learn a new thing, and get away from the type of fencer who couldn't acknowledge a touch in foil during practice, it was annoying. Once I continued with epee, I could see the challenge involved. When you fence epee, you have to learn how to hit specific targets the right way. You can't get into your own head too much, you really have to watch your opponent very carefully while you're fencing. Directors have to look for other things in epee, they watch the floor for example and listen for a tip going on the floor and they have to watch it closely, some of the better epeeist touch lightly onto a surface, even by accident and it could spoil the bout. So, there's that, and they have to spot check the wiring if they're in doubt, because if things aren't grounded properly it becomes a problem, they have to know how to inspect equipment and clothing especially. So, they have their work cut out for them.


:party:

Cvillefencer
-29th May 2003, 19:59
Hello all! I should say Hi before I start talking, having never posted to this board before!

I am not sure about the UK, having never been, but here in the US, Southeastern Division, there are about twice as many foilists as there are epee fencers, and almost twice as many foil tourneys for that matter!

Saber fencers are even more rare. Here in Virginia at an open you can expect something like this: 30-45 foilists, 15-25 Epeeists, and 8-15 Saber fencers

mango
-30th May 2003, 04:14
Hi civil, nice to see you again. I am in the Southwest Division. We have many fencers in foil and epee, and we are gaining in our saber. I had thought about saber in the past, but dropped it.


Epee, Let's take it to the People!
[I like that!!! we should- cause Epee Rules]

Cvillefencer
-30th May 2003, 13:59
Hey Mango! Lots of familiar faces on the board! You, Gav, Haggis, Craig, Aoife, Mischa, DanInMI and more! (consider this a group HI to all the above! :-) ) Glad I finally found it!

Gav
-30th May 2003, 14:45
Hi Cville': Welcome to the UK board!

Cvillefencer
-30th May 2003, 20:18
Originally posted by Gav
Hi Cville': Welcome to the UK board!

Thanks Gav! It looks fun so far!

Hudson
-30th May 2003, 20:23
it's fun alright,
you don't have to be mad to post here but it helps.

Moose
-2nd June 2003, 14:55
Lol, it certainly doews, thats why most of us are somewhat twisted.

Hudson
-2nd June 2003, 15:02
some crazier than others

Moose
-2nd June 2003, 15:07
Yeah we are a bit barmy :)

Cvillefencer
-2nd June 2003, 15:15
Barmy? Is that a typo or are you speaking British again! :)

Rdb811
-2nd June 2003, 15:26
Nope - it means sliightly mad with a slighty jocular/informal overtone- the beer - swillng masses who turn up to cricket matches cre called the 'Barmy Army' - they chant it none stop.

e.g. "lets run this competition with two rounds of pools ?"

"are you barmy ?"

Moose
-2nd June 2003, 15:28
Barmy = Mad/Insane

Cvillefencer
-2nd June 2003, 15:44
Copy! Thanks for indulging the poor dumb Texan! :) I will get the hang of this British/Anglish thing I am sure! If Madonna can do it, so can I! :grin:

PM1
-2nd June 2003, 22:43
and she's another fencer (duh) and loves her beer - Timothy Taylor's, I believe;) ;) Don't be afriad to ask for translations.....

mango
-4th June 2003, 01:15
I like this board better so far, in writing it seems everyone gets along much better. Also, the avatars move, the other board is okay, their avatars are good also, but still it's more fun here!

:party:

PM1
-5th June 2003, 00:51
Good - pleased to hear you're enjoying yerself:) :grin:
I really must find the time to have a quick skeg at the other board sometime...;) ;)

mango
-5th June 2003, 05:18
I know, I like the other board also, I was just mad when I wrote the above post. I jump here when I get fed-up.

Who are you? Geepers peepers,
Where did you get those eyes?

I did a little reading about fencing again on the net, and saw some old articles with me in it and felt a little sad.

bye.:confused:

Moose
-5th June 2003, 05:49
Ok, Mango

1) what are you smoking?
2) can I have some?

Your posts are so perfectly random as to me utterly brilliant :grin:

sblatchley
-5th June 2003, 10:15
Please remember that fencing in public parks throughout the UK is illegal unless you have permission from the park authority or council.

However, open air events are on the increase and it's a great way to get passers-by interested. Believe me they do stop to watch and ask questions? Epee is by far the best to demonstrate and explain.

Bring along battery operated scoring equipment and a metal piste. Find some level ground and, if necessary, park a car on each end the piste to secure.

Epee - Let's take it to the people!

mango
-6th June 2003, 03:16
Thank you again Moose and others. Epee is so versitile we can fence just a-bout anywhere. On the sand, which would increase our calf muscles; on the sidewalk, the perfect piste; and fun abounds for all!

PM1
-6th June 2003, 22:43
Dearest Mango - who am I ??:grin: That would surely be giving the game away.......:o :tongue: let'sjust say that my profile is one of the more truthful ones, if tongue firmly in cheek:tongue: :tongue:

And the eyes???well now.......i'm always watching..........;) ;) lol
And epee is the best weapon to watch if you can't "do", don't you think??? Ciao;) ;)