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Rudd
-4th December 2009, 20:43
Men's team Epee and women's team Sabre excluded from the 2012 Olympic Games. (http://www.fencing.net/news/world/olympic-event-decision-on-mens-team-epee-and-womens-team-sabre.html)

Esgrimista
-5th December 2009, 13:11
Bummer! I know nothing about the organisation and funding for the Olympics, but - given the likely astronomical budget - you'd think that it wouldn't be that hard to find a bit more cash for a few more medals.

lisward
-6th December 2009, 11:46
And I was looking forward to see the Men's Epee team ):

Keith.A.Smith
-9th December 2009, 17:05
Blame the IOC. They refused to give the FIE two more medals.

Keith

Esgrimista
-9th December 2009, 18:22
Oh, we do!

Just out of interest though Keith, what was the original reasoning behind their decision? Was it a budget thing, or more to do with timetables and spreading medals across ever more events?

aao
-10th December 2009, 10:19
I never understood why when faced with the reality that evey Olympics 2 teams wouldn't be able to compete, there wasn't an option to scrap the team events as a whole but increase the participation rates in the individuals.

The Olympics in part is all about world wide participation in sports, with each country sending its best athletes to take part in events no matter how over matched some of them may be, but in fencing only a handful of nations are ever represented due to the current qualifying criteria. I would much rather see a system where each country sends its tops fencer in each weapon to the Olympics (as it used to be), maybe with a caveat that for the very strong nations and extra place per weapon is allocated. Its a personal view, but as it stands at present many fencers from alot of nations, who probably should have been able to go to the Olympics never have.

Baldric
-10th December 2009, 11:50
Oh, we do!

Just out of interest though Keith, what was the original reasoning behind their decision? Was it a budget thing, or more to do with timetables and spreading medals across ever more events?

Its not about 2012 - there has been a cap on the number of medals for many years.

Bear in mind that "success" at the olympics is defined by national teams as the total number of medals. As a result there is pressure from nations who are strong in particular sports to increase the number of medals in that sport - by adding new disciplines, team events etc.
The IOC pushes back in the other direction - wanting to keep the number of medals down, so that the olympic medal is not devalued.

It does seem silly that fencing only gets 10 medals when is it a 12 discipline sport. On the other hand, its a lot better than 0 medals!

Baldric

Esgrimista
-10th December 2009, 16:36
[@ Baldric] I see! I hadn't honestly realised that this was an old restriction. I just figured it was related to the more recent business of adding the Women's Sabre (although I cannot even remember when that was!).

I agree that it all sounds a bit daft, but I had not considered the pressures mentioned in your second paragraph - thanks for the insight!

Threestain
-10th December 2009, 18:15
the reason why it is 10 medals for 12 weapons is because the 10 medal limit is from before women's sabre was practiced, meaning that 10 medals covered all weapons (and bearing in mind that Women's Epee has only been going about 4 Olympics I think).

So far no one has managed to convince the IOC to increase the number of medals. But some foolish person has managed to get Golf and Rugby 7s into the 2016 games. Personally I would rid the olympics of football, tennis, and any other sport where winning the olympics is about as good as winning the local bingo night.

pinkelephant
-10th December 2009, 20:00
I don't recall the IOC restricting the total number of track and field medals when women's triple jump and pole vault were introduced. Hardly fair. But then life's not fair.

Baldric
-10th December 2009, 21:19
I don't recall the IOC restricting the total number of track and field medals when women's triple jump and pole vault were introduced. Hardly fair. But then life's not fair.

I suspect that Athletics carry more weight on the IOC than fencing!

Keith.A.Smith
-14th December 2009, 11:09
It was simple whern there were 5 individual events then 10 medlas covered it all. When the FIE introduced Women's Sabre the IOC did not give additional medals and so far the FIE has been unable to convince them, hence the rotation of the team events.

The strongest countries really want the team events and thus they are protected.

This time around only teams ranked in the top 16 are eligible for the London Games, so if no African team in the top 16, then the African quota will go to the next highest team not already qualified. This will normally but not always been another European team. The teams will be the top 4 in the World plus another 4, one per zone provided they are in the top 16 in the World Team rankings. (I am presuming that there will be an Asiatic and American team in the top 16 at each weapon.)

Hope that makes sense.

The host nationa can put teams where it likes using the 8 host nation places plus naturally any teams qualified.

Keith

JulianRose
-14th December 2009, 11:48
Keith
is there any indication what the funding situation is for team events this season given the announcement of which team events will not be at London and the funding from from uk sport has been reviewed since the announcemnt regarding team events funding that was on the bfa site a couple of months that I cannot find at the moment?

Keith.A.Smith
-14th December 2009, 14:31
Graham has emailed all on the WCPP today. Clearly we cannot fund team events in non Olympic Disciplines with UK Sport money.

That leaves four team events to be fiunded but clearly Men's Foil is the priority given their results.

Keith

JohnL
-14th December 2009, 16:59
Clearly we should never have allowed women to pick up either Epee's or Sabre's. Then there wouldn't have been a problem.

That, and the benefit that we would only have to put up with them attempting foil

:)

HelenC
-14th December 2009, 17:39
Clearly we cannot fund team events in non Olympic Disciplines with UK Sport money.


While I understand the reasoning behind this, it's a terribly short-sighted approach -they are only out of the next Olympics, and presumably will be back in in 2016 while two other team events stand aside.

A successful team can't be developed and brought to the point of Olympic success in a single four year cycle.

Helen.