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Hungry Hippo
-10th December 2009, 07:41
'London 2012: marginal sports' 7m sponsorship to boost government funding gap

Fencing, shooting, handball and volleyball are among the sports that will receive a financial boost to their London Olympic ambitions after UK Sport announced the results of a funding review.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/london2012/6772743/London-2012-marginal-sports-7m-sponsorship-to-boost-government-funding-gap.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/london2012/6772743/London-2012-marginal-sports-7m-sponsorship-to-boost-government-funding-gap.html)

Who are the two fencers in the picture though?

The Telegraph sports section has a much better shot of Martina Emanuel and Erinn Smart at the Beijing Olympics.

The news is not solely about fencing, but all the best pictures from these sports definitely are!

Slowhand
-10th December 2009, 15:27
Looks like good news:

An increase from 1,259,746 to 2,519,335.

http://www.uksport.gov.uk/pages/summer_olympic_sports_-_london_2012/

hokers
-10th December 2009, 16:24
That's certainly a pretty serious increase, but it looks as though a large number of the other minority sports have been cut back?
Any ideas where this money is going to be spent?

Also:
261,304,353 - 256,588,649 = 4,715,704
47,944,236 - 47,085,250 = 858,986

Total 5,574,690

Doesn't sound the same as 7m to me.

JulianRose
-10th December 2009, 16:46
Looks like good news:

An increase from 1,259,746 to 2,519,335.

http://www.uksport.gov.uk/pages/summer_olympic_sports_-_london_2012/

Don't suddenly expect more fencers to be supported though. As a sport we frontloaded our payments so that we could keep supporting as many athletes as possible after the cutbacks. I would suspect that the increase will simply mean we can afford to keep our spending the same for the whole 4 years rather than run out of uk sport money after 2.5 years, which I believe was the case.

Keith.A.Smith
-10th December 2009, 17:14
Still good news to double your funding.

Keith

miraberis
-10th December 2009, 17:21
Who are the two fencers in the picture though?

See that's why fencing just isn't really a spectator sport! Shame. Can't wait for the Olympics in London when I'll actually be able to go and watch a bitof world class fencing. Question: would a little bit of commentary during the Olympics from someone a little more knowledgable than me be too much to hope for?

hokers
-10th December 2009, 17:37
Absolutely. Must have been no small effort involved to get everything in place to make this happen. You can't ask for much more than doubling the funding.

My cynicism is directed more at the government's priorities about funding of London 2012. Squeezing about another 2% into the sport funding budget from a corporate sponsor is lovely, but doesn't compare to the billions they are pumping into other parts of the games budget. And the legacy? Anyone?

Baldric
-10th December 2009, 20:33
And the legacy? Anyone?

The legacy is the 1.041m of grassroots funding that we are enjoying in addition to the figures mentioned above for performance funding. That base figure is also creating opportunities to access further funding from other sources - probably doubling the total.

I have very much doubt that it would have been forthcoming without London 2012.

hokers
-10th December 2009, 20:40
We've had this debate before and once again I think some sort of lasting physical legacy would be of more use to us, though I know you disagree.

You know how many velodromes there are already in the UK?

Baldric
-10th December 2009, 22:24
We've had this debate before and once again I think some sort of lasting physical legacy would be of more use to us, though I know you disagree.


A physical legacy would have been nice as well - particularly if it came with the cash to maintain it.

As you say, we have had the debate before. My only point is that there IS a legacy, its just not the legacy you would have preferred.

And no - I wouldn't swap the 1m of development funding for 1m worth of bricks and mortar. But bearing in mind my job, I wouldn't, would I? :)

And I have no idea how many velodromes there are - but that isn't really the question. Cyclists have to have a velodrome to practice their specialist sport. Fencers don't - any multipurpose sports hall will do. And there are far more of them than there are velodromes!

TomA
-10th December 2009, 22:47
I'm with Baldric on this one. Which would I rather have, a purpose-built facility or a well-run club with good scoring equipment and coaches? The latter. Aside from anything else, a purpose-built facility can only exist in one place and needs constant financial input. A good coach can go anywhere and the only financial input required is the cost of a lesson.

That's provided, of course, that the initiative does produce good coaches.

pinkelephant
-10th December 2009, 23:18
I want both. And jam on it.

Rdb811
-11th December 2009, 01:56
I'm with Baldric on this one. Which would I rather have, a purpose-built facility or a well-run club with good scoring equipment and coaches? The latter. Aside from anything else, a purpose-built facility can only exist in one place and needs constant financial input. A good coach can go anywhere and the only financial input required is the cost of a lesson.



Nowhere near as simple - finding venues and being able to use the despite changes of management is a major problem - plus unless lucky, you're contributing to somebody else's profits

miraberis
-11th December 2009, 13:50
Out of interest, are there any purpose built fencing salles in the UK that are not located on a school or university campus (I can only think of a couple that are, too!)?

TomA
-11th December 2009, 14:00
Nowhere near as simple - finding venues and being able to use the despite changes of management is a major problem - plus unless lucky, you're contributing to somebody else's profitsRdb811 - my local club has use of a purpose-built fencing salle with 12 built in pistes (8 of them metallic), a mirrored wall for footwork, built-in scoring equipment, an armoury and full changing facilities. It's all owned and run by the local authority - and none of the problems you've mentioned are solved by the existence of this facility. Any club in any sport is going to have these problems - at the end of the day you're always going to be competing with other clubs and activities for the space available.

Rdb811
-11th December 2009, 17:35
Rdb811 - my local club has use of a purpose-built fencing salle with 12 built in pistes (8 of them metallic), a mirrored wall for footwork, built-in scoring equipment, an armoury and full changing facilities. It's all owned and run by the local authority - and none of the problems you've mentioned are solved by the existence of this facility. Any club in any sport is going to have these problems - at the end of the day you're always going to be competing with other clubs and activities for the space available.

I don't follow - sounds like nirvana to me.

What I was trying to sy is that any money has to be spent on either coaching or facilities (and to pay the fencers) and like a house, it may or may not be cheaper to buy rather than rent.

hokers
-15th December 2009, 14:00
Rdb811 - my local club has use of a purpose-built fencing salle with 12 built in pistes (8 of them metallic), a mirrored wall for footwork, built-in scoring equipment, an armoury and full changing facilities. It's all owned and run by the local authority - and none of the problems you've mentioned are solved by the existence of this facility. Any club in any sport is going to have these problems - at the end of the day you're always going to be competing with other clubs and activities for the space available.

Really?
Where is this place? I didn't think there were any public salles in the UK at ALL.

I think removal of the 50/hr clubs are paying for sports hall space is one of the biggest barriers to entry that our sport has.

TomA
-15th December 2009, 14:14
Really?
Where is this place? I didn't think there were any public salles in the UK at ALL.I didn't say I live in the UK (although I'm over here on holiday at the moment).

My point is that regardless of whether a facility is fencing-specific or not, it's got to be paid for somehow. Whatever the facility fencing has to foot the bill (whether through the NGB or the clubs or through private investment) and ultimately the person holding the purse strings is going to have the final say. If it's a fencing specific facility then the bill is going to be larger because the running costs can't be recouped from other sports.

Gav
-16th December 2009, 10:31
I want both. And jam on it.

Jam will rot your teeth...

Gav
-16th December 2009, 10:34
I didn't say I live in the UK (although I'm over here on holiday at the moment).

My point is that regardless of whether a facility is fencing-specific or not, it's got to be paid for somehow. Whatever the facility fencing has to foot the bill (whether through the NGB or the clubs or through private investment) and ultimately the person holding the purse strings is going to have the final say. If it's a fencing specific facility then the bill is going to be larger because the running costs can't be recouped from other sports.

Out of curiosity where are you?

I have a link to a US salle that amazed me. It was full of metal pistes, permanent scoring machines, mirror wall etc... and basically no fencers to speak of.

But then the Cubans turn out half decent fencers using nothing more complicated than slat flooring and sticks.

TomA
-16th December 2009, 11:45
Out of curiosity where are you?Sunny northern France :).

Gav
-16th December 2009, 12:38
Sunny northern France :).

Lucky you! Which club is that?

How are you finding the french scene compared to ours?

J_D
-16th December 2009, 16:44
When work takes me to Versailles I usually try and get to the Salle at Bourg la Reine which has a facility which sounds very similar.

http://www.asbr-escrime.fr/

TomA
-16th December 2009, 17:20
Lucky you! Which club is that?

How are you finding the french scene compared to ours?Lorient - it's a large-ish town near the southern coast of Brittany. It's not an especially competitive club by French standards however the standard and numbers are probably similar to one of the mid-size London clubs, and there are a few fencers who'd probably make the top 50 over here without too much trouble. I've noticed quite a few differences - eg the approach to footwork. For U13s and younger the focus is on nice, neat technical footwork. Having established that standard from an early age, that shifts when they move up to join the older fencers - tactics, rhythm and conditioning are almost the sole focus at this point. Aside from that, the individual lessons are different, the pommellers are different and the approach to fitness is different from what you might expect at a nominally 'social' fencing club. I don't really want to hijack this thread by going into any more detail!

I'm going to southern Paris in January, and am hoping to make it to some of the 'competitive' clubs, so that should be interesting.

miraberis
-16th December 2009, 17:37
I've noticed quite a few differences - eg the approach to footwork. For U13s and younger the focus is on nice, neat technical footwork. Having established that standard from an early age, that shifts when they move up to join the older fencers - tactics, rhythm and conditioning are almost the sole focus at this point. Aside from that, the individual lessons are different, the pommellers are different and the approach to fitness is different from what you might expect at a nominally 'social' fencing club.

I don't really want to hijack this thread by going into any more detail!


Start a new thread on it? It sounds interesting. I've only fenced abroad once, and at a competition, not training.

J_D
-17th December 2009, 01:07
I'm going to southern Paris in January, and am hoping to make it to some of the 'competitive' clubs, so that should be interesting.


Tom, what weapon do you fence, and which clubs are you thinking about visiting?

Lynne
-17th December 2009, 14:19
Start a new thread on it? It sounds interesting. I've only fenced abroad once, and at a competition, not training.

We run regular trips to France, Hungary and, coming soon, Italy for training if you're interested.

TomA
-17th December 2009, 14:25
Tom, what weapon do you fence, and which clubs are you thinking about visiting? Epee - I'm looking at Levallois and Racing Club at the moment, if I can get in!

Of course if you can recommend any then I'm all ears :)

miraberis
-17th December 2009, 14:49
We run regular trips to France, Hungary and, coming soon, Italy for training if you're interested.

Thanks for the offer, but time is a big issue for me at the moment. Have a lot more uni work this year than last.
I'd still be interested to hear more details about the differences in training in France to here from TomA, though, purely from a curiosity point of view.

J_D
-18th December 2009, 12:23
Hi Tom, I know know some of the foil clubs, but Racing is a pretty good bet I understand. I know someone who fences sabre there but that's all.

Red
-21st December 2009, 14:24
Thanks for the offer, but time is a big issue for me at the moment. Have a lot more uni work this year than last.
I'd still be interested to hear more details about the differences in training in France to here from TomA, though, purely from a curiosity point of view.

The Hungarian training camp that Lynne speaks of is well outside Uni term time. Usually runs across the end of July and start of August.


Hi Tom, I know know some of the foil clubs, but Racing is a pretty good bet I understand. I know someone who fences sabre there but that's all.

If that's the same club I'm thinking of then that's where Julien Pillet fences.

TomA
-23rd December 2009, 20:42
If that's the same club I'm thinking of then that's where Julien Pillet fences.Pillet does indeed fence there, as do Lucenay and Jeannet for epee, though I doubt I'll get to fence them seeing as the international season is about to start.