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View Full Version : Edinburgh Open to be a Epee Satellite FIE event!



Gav
-6th January 2004, 13:19
Yep that's right. The Edinburgh Open is to have it's Epee event upgraded to a FIE satellite event! The Sabre event is a Coup Du Nord [or was as far as I am aware] since last year. This means that there will be plenty of points up for grabs for those of us lucky enough to be Epeeists or Sabreurs. I'm sure us Edinburgh based fencers can come up with a social event to fall on from the main...

The Edinburgh Open will be held on March 13th. More details to follow...

tigger
-6th January 2004, 13:37
The sabre's been a satellite for a couple of years or more. The points aren't that great (except obviously WC points for the top 8), but the social is awesome! The full Cornwall posse is making the long journey..

Marcos
-6th January 2004, 14:02
are there Team events for both sabre and epee?

Gav
-6th January 2004, 14:17
The sabre's been a satellite for a couple of years or more. The points aren't that great (except obviously WC points for the top 8), but the social is awesome! The full Cornwall posse is making the long journey..

Couple of years... show's how much attention I pay to Sabre! ;)

The Epeeists would like to see it as a decent event with plenty of competition so we're interested in getting as many Epeeists as possible along. Let me know when you are up and we'll get an Edinburgh posse together and hit the town.

Marcos: Yes there should be an individual and team event.

NLSC Sabreur
-6th January 2004, 14:40
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tigger
The sabre's been a satellite for a couple of years or more. The points aren't that great (except obviously WC points for the top 8), but the social is awesome! The full Cornwall posse is making the long journey.. [/QUOTE
]


Not exactly. Last year there was the Coupe du Nord Sabre Individual on the Saturday, a team Coupe du Nord Sabre on Sunday and an Edinburgh Open (iIndividual) Sabre also on the Sunday. Not being up with a team last year I did the Edinburgh Open Sabre rather the Coupe du Nord teams.

Why its organised like this I have no idea. Will the epee be similarly complicated?

Marcos
-6th January 2004, 14:50
seems nuts - they should amalgamate the coupe and the open as 1 big comp - top 75% get UK points, top 8 get fie points, 1st round exits get a plate comp - then everyone gets lagered and has a team comp the next day to work it off

as deveney might say - simplicity itself

Gav
-6th January 2004, 14:54
Why its organised like this I have no idea. Will the epee be similarly complicated?

Not sure. I hope not. Last time I checked the organisers told me that there would only be the satellite event.

I'll check and let you guys know.


... everyone gets lagered and has a team comp the next day to work it off

Marcos, you read my mind!

twohappyhippos
-6th January 2004, 14:56
i'm thinking about going!!! but all i need now is info about what day epee will be held on, then i can book my flights etc....ahhh where to stay? lol im sure i'll be able to find someones floor to sleep on! hopefully..........................
maybe i'll see you up there tigger! p.s. hope you had a fab new year!

rory
-6th January 2004, 15:10
Originally posted by Marcos
seems nuts - they should amalgamate the coupe and the open as 1 big comp - top 75% get UK points, top 8 get fie points, 1st round exits get a plate comp - then everyone gets lagered and has a team comp the next day to work it off

as deveney might say - simplicity itself


Difficulty here is kit.
Satellite events require full FIE kit - this immediately prevents 90% of fencers entering the competition.

That's why there were two sabre events last year as far as I know - to let everyone who hasn't got FIE sabre kit get a competition.

If they hadn't done this I couldn't have fenced the sabre (and got a last 8...).

Rdb811
-6th January 2004, 22:53
I was planning atrip up for this.

Australian
-6th January 2004, 23:02
i'd love to come!

i'll be arriving in the uk from aussie on thursday, so i'll be able to work it out then

Marcos
-7th January 2004, 08:10
Originally posted by rory
Difficulty here is kit.
Satellite events require full FIE kit - this immediately prevents 90% of fencers entering the competition.

If they hadn't done this I couldn't have fenced the sabre (and got a last 8...).

fair enough,

then how about holding the Edinburgh open Saturday lunch time and amalgamating it with the Plate of the Satellite event?

any first round exits get extra fencing by being automatically entered into the Open...

increases the numbers/quality of the open, and everyone gets a good day's fencing in...
:party:

pinkelephant
-7th January 2004, 11:08
Whose bright idea was it to move the Vets Championships to the same weekend?

aao
-7th January 2004, 14:33
well as FIE satellites go it promises to be realtively weak thanks to the Paris A-grade being on the same weekend, now the question is whether to go to the Edinburgh one which will be great fun (virtually every memory I have of that fab city is somewhat blurred by an excess of alchol) or to go to Paris which is probably the biggest international fencing event outside the worlds or Europeans......hmmmmmmmmm (a L8 at Edinburgh = small number of Fie points :), a L8 at Paris = a major miracle of biblical proportions!)
I suppose I'll have to decide closer to the time, but everybody entering will need full FIE kit and an FIE licence and probably will need to be entered by their respective federations.

Rdb811
-7th January 2004, 16:55
You don't need to be entered by the NAtional Federations for satelite events.

The Little Un
-8th January 2004, 12:07
Does all this kit regulations thing mean that the Foil shall be standard BFA Kit requirements? I hope so as I have booked my flights and got my accomodation organised (well I am staying with my sister actually).

Best wishes,
Judy

Gav
-8th January 2004, 12:48
The Foil will be run as a normal BFA tournament.

The Little Un
-9th January 2004, 09:31
Dear Gav,
Thank you, Hope to see you there.

Best wishes,
Judy

The Little Un
-9th January 2004, 12:17
Why not have the pouls for the Edinburgh Open (After all this meant to be an Open Competition). Then say take the fencers who have entered as fie competitors go into the DE for the Satelitte Competion and the others go into the DE for the Edinburgh Open.

Another question I have, does anybody know what the entry fees are for this tournament please?

Many thanks,
Judy Aldridge

The Little Un
-9th January 2004, 12:25
Dear Gav,
Sorry me again. Do you know how much the entry fee is for the foil.

Many thanks,
Judy Aldridge

Gav
-9th January 2004, 12:41
Edinburgh Fencing club is organising this event. I am waiting to receive some additional information from them regarding the entry fee's for every event. I'll post all of this stuff asap - should be tonight.

Marcos
-9th January 2004, 13:59
we're replicating this debate in Ireland - when transforming an Open into an FIE comp what is the best way??

3 routes -
qualification as Little 'Un describes followed by FIE event proper
- trouble there is what happens if you qualify but don;t have 800N kit?


start the FIE event in the morning, and the Open in the afternoon - 1st round FIE exits join non-FIE fencers giving everyone still something to fight for.
- difficulty is space and time


scrap the idea and have 2 seperate comps on different dates.
- disadvantage is you have to start a comp from scratch.


bit of a head-wrecker.

The Little Un
-9th January 2004, 15:30
Dear Marcos,
What I had envisaged was that people would enter on the basis of grade. For example 800 and 350, though for somebody to enter the 350 they would be allowed to wear 800 kit. The poules could be mixed or seperate, then you take the Top say 32 in each catagorie and have the DE for each section. I cannot see there being too much problem as far the fie event goes as far as numbers is concerned. If it is an fie Satellite competition then fighters will not only need fie kit but fie licences as well. My personal opinion is that they should either keep it as a proper open or stop calling it an open if it is to be a fie satellite tournament.

Best wishes,
Judy

Rdb811
-9th January 2004, 19:14
I ssupect the FIE wouldn't be too happy if you merged the formats - two comps on the same day (the 350 event starting later) would be the best bet.

haggis
-10th January 2004, 02:39
I believe that the epee and sabre events will both be FIE satellite events and that if you want to fence you will need to have full FIE kit, license, etc. As Gav said, there should be full information about the events very soon and Gav or I will post links to the relevant sites as soon as they have something useful for you.

Regards

Haggis

The Little Un
-10th January 2004, 07:36
Dear Haggis,
The confusion starts when one writes "Full FIE Kit" as the East of Ireland Open requires this but it does not mean 800 kit. The rules for "Open" Tournaments are supposed to be that you have to at least wear the kit standards laid down by the countries regulatory body. The idea of an open event is that it is open to all grades of fencers, who are licenced by their national body and wear kit conforming to that national body's regulations. So my question is simply this, Is the Edinburgh Open, an Open event or is it an FIE event, in which case it should stop calling itself and Open event.

Best wishes,
Judy

The Little Un
-10th January 2004, 19:59
Dear Gav,
I think I am getting more and more confused. According to the calendar The Ediburgh Open (6 Weapons) is on the 13th of March, so far so good. Also on the calendar is the Scittish International Sabre Competition.

Can you explain how this works.

Many thanks,
Judy

Gav
-11th January 2004, 21:02
The calendar [currently] has incorrect information on it. I'll discuss this with the guys at EFC when I next see them.

MatFink
-12th January 2004, 05:35
Why is it the same weekend as the Paris World Cup. They did the same thing with Turku satillete earlier on in the year and as a result all the international fencers went to the biger comp.

It seems a long way to travel for what will be a domestic competition, and a weak one if our top fencers also go to Paris.

Can we try to get a better weekend next time around!!!

doobarz
-12th January 2004, 08:21
Originally posted by The Little Un
So my question is simply this, Is the Edinburgh Open, an Open event or is it an FIE event, in which case it should stop calling itself and Open event.

Last year, the Scottish International Sabre (Coupe du Nord Men's Sabre Tournament with Satellite FIE Status) was run on the Saturday. This event required International FIE Kit (1600N Mask, 800N Jacket, Breeches & Plastron, lame and overlay, with National Colours on breeches and Name and Country on lame after L32) and had weapon control. On the Sunday, the C du N team event ran alongside the Edinburgh Open Men's Sabre competition, which had no weapon control, but required jacket, plastron and breeches, and full electric kit. My understanding is that these do not have a specified resisitance level, which is why the new safety standards are being introduced in 2006.

The venue was huge, and there were no problems running all these events (well, OK we ran the Team event ourselves one the organisers had given us the seedings, but that was fine, no hanging around).

So a the other question is wil the ME be removed from the Edinburgh Open, or will thew C du N be held as a seperate event as with the MS?

haggis
-12th January 2004, 18:39
Originally posted by The Little Un
Dear Haggis,
The confusion starts when one writes "Full FIE Kit" as the East of Ireland Open requires this but it does not mean 800 kit. The rules for "Open" Tournaments are supposed to be that you have to at least wear the kit standards laid down by the countries regulatory body. The idea of an open event is that it is open to all grades of fencers, who are licenced by their national body and wear kit conforming to that national body's regulations. So my question is simply this, Is the Edinburgh Open, an Open event or is it an FIE event, in which case it should stop calling itself and Open event.

Best wishes,
Judy

Dear Judy

See Doobarz' reply. Assuming the same this year for epee but promise to let you know once I have the info.

Regards

Haggis

rory
-13th January 2004, 08:30
Originally posted by doobarz
So the other question is wil the ME be removed from the Edinburgh Open, or will thew C du N be held as a seperate event as with the MS?

Basically it's three competitions in the same venue on the same day - FIE Satellite Mens Sabre, FIE Satellite Mens Epee and the Edinburgh Open (mens and womens foil, womens epee, womens sabre).

The Edinburgh Open (4W) is a normal open competition - jacket, breeches and plastrons required, no resistance rating for kit, no weapons check. Anyone over 13 can enter.

The satellite events require age 13+, 800N kit and an FIE license, but anyone who meets those requirements can enter - there's no requirement that you be entered by your federation as some have suggested.

Clear?

Gav
-14th January 2004, 08:34
The entry details are up. You can find them here (http://www.edinburghfencingclub.co.uk/competition/sis/index.html).

tigger
-14th January 2004, 08:58
Until last year the Edinburgh Open and The Scottish International Sabre were held on different weekends. Last year for some reason (to save money on venue??) they combined the weekends. Seems bizarre to me. Virtually none of the better sabreurs did the Edinburgh Open on the Sunday, preferring to get over their hangovers in the team event.

I think it would be better to hold the Epee and Sabre Satellite events on a seperate weekend from the Open event, but of course that's up to you chilly northerners...

Gav
-14th January 2004, 09:45
Hi Tigger,

The Edinburgh Open has been in decline for some years now. It is my belief that it was the intention of the organisers to scrap the Open in favour of the FIE event. Last year was considered a transistional year hence the running of the two events side by side. This will not be happening this year. The MS and M/WE are to be held as FIE events only. People should read the entry form and be aware of the entry requirements. I've attached the entry forms to make things clearer.

The Little Un
-14th January 2004, 10:54
Dear Gav,
Thank you very much, I am most appreciative.

Best wishes,
Judy

The Little Un
-14th January 2004, 11:40
Well that is my entry for the Foil and Sabre in the post.

I am not worried if the event is fie next year as my equipment shall be upgraded, then I can use my fie licence properly.

Best wishes,
Judy

UglyBug
-14th January 2004, 11:45
Women's sabre for the International Sabre in Edinburgh does not require FIE licence or kit. It is run to domestic equipment rules, as is the Cole Cup women's event in Newcastle

UglyBug
-14th January 2004, 11:53
Sorry - pressed post before finished.

The reason those two competitions are referred to in the International context is because they are part of the Coupe du Nord circuit for the women, the same as the men. THe difference is that the FIE does not award world cup points for the women's event. However, any points you do get count towards the Coupe du Nord rankings. Therefore it is an international but not FIE-governed and so run to domestic equipment rules and regs.

The other Coupe du Nords in Northern Europe also do not need FIE licences from the women, just valid BFA. Strictly speaking, this therefore means you do not need 800N kit there either - just valid BFA kit. However, in practice, because those countries have 800N minimum kit requirement for their own fencers, they expect the same of all competitors. From experience, though, if you have a problem, they normally scrabble kit together to lend you.

Hope I have not confuddled anyone

Australian
-15th January 2004, 08:21
would i be able to stay with anyone on the saturday night...?

Marcos
-15th January 2004, 08:47
who says the art of seduction is dead?

Marcos
-15th January 2004, 14:42
there are no team events??

Rdb811
-15th January 2004, 23:43
Thats what it says - not suprising given the number of events going on. Pity.

Marcos
-16th January 2004, 09:00
confused now :(

you have the Coupe sabre, fine. Tho with no team which for me is the main reason for going to these things as its great fun and good experience for the Irish team.

question:
is there a non-FIE Sabre the next day (Edinburgh Open) or not?

if so where is the entry form?:dizzy:

NLSC Sabreur
-16th January 2004, 09:00
Originally posted by Marcos
there are no team events??

I hadn't noticed that, I suppose I just presumed there would be. With no team events I suggest that given the choice between a Coupe du Nord in Edinburgh or another elsewhere you may go elsewhere another time. Last year the team event needed only 2 pistes. Are they saying they can't find 2 pistes free for part of Sunday? I was planning to go up with a team this year but I'm not sure any of us will go.

tigger
-16th January 2004, 09:29
That is a a shame. I have great memories of Canada's Marc Hasbani swaying from side to side on the piste during the team event, and spending entire fights standing still and parrying in case he threw up...

I'll still go tho! Love Edinburgh too much to miss it, and some of the Scots sabreurs are good mates.

Gav
-16th January 2004, 09:49
Marcos,

The entry forms are attached to this thread a little ways up from your last post. There will be no non-FIE sabre (or Epee for that matter) event at the Edinburgh Open this year. I'll see if I can find out why there is no team even this year.

Marcos
-20th January 2004, 09:49
Apparently it is time and space - they are going to reconsider havng a team event, but looks unlikely - if you really want one, best thing might be to email the organiser and plead/beg/lobby, etc:(

Gav
-11th February 2004, 09:48
It has come to my attention that the organisers have managed to attract the sponsorship of a major Whisky distiller. As a result there will be a prize fund of a few thousand pounds. How this is to be distributed isn't clear yet - more details when I know.

Additionally, a Ceilidh is currently being organised at a brewery. This, I believe will be the acid test of the whole weekend...

For those who do not know what Ceilidh means it translates roughly as "drunken Scottish party".

pinkelephant
-11th February 2004, 10:14
And I'll be at the Vets instead! Life sucks.

tigger
-11th February 2004, 11:35
Why is it I trek to Scotland for years, fence in an event with no prize money and no official booze up, and then the year I can't make it everyone else gets to win money and take advantage of the local tipples....:mad:

However I will be in Athens fencing in the Olympic salle, so it's not all bad :)

Sorry to let you Scots boys n girls down, and miss the alleged return of the legendary B Hanley to the competition circuit...just a rumour I heard :eek:

colliebeast
-11th February 2004, 15:54
Originally posted by rory
Basically it's three competitions in the same venue on the same day - FIE Satellite Mens Sabre, FIE Satellite Mens Epee and the Edinburgh Open (mens and womens foil, womens epee, womens sabre).



The womens sabre although advertised as part of the Edinburgh Open, is apparently still part of the coup as it has always been. So we can still get our Coup points HURRUH!

Australian
-11th February 2004, 15:56
any news on accomodation gav?

Jambo
-11th February 2004, 16:00
Or on a team event? Really need a team comp, its half the fun of coups. I had great fun in Amsterdam till a certain "big boned" woman decided to make me a laughing stock of the irish boys.

Gav
-11th February 2004, 16:08
Originally posted by Australian
any news on accomodation gav?

It's going to be cool! I just forgot to PM you back.

The easiest option would be for you to let me know what time, and where, you are planning to arrive [and how - bus, train bicycle etc] so we can make arrangements.

Be seeing you!

Australian
-11th February 2004, 16:18
kickin' rad...

i'll send in my entry form and look for cheap flights asap

Australian
-11th February 2004, 16:37
would i be able to be met at the airport... or a bus into town be more convenient... i don't really know britain well, hehe

Gav
-11th February 2004, 16:46
Originally posted by Australian
would i be able to be met at the airport... or a bus into town be more convenient... i don't really know britain well, hehe

I don't know. Will speak to the guys. To be honest the connections from the airport to central Edinburgh are very good.

Depends on how generous the guys are feeling....
;)

Australian
-11th February 2004, 16:50
then i should be able to get in the city with little problems :)

Marcos
-11th February 2004, 17:26
just been confirmed - there is no team comp, so no "weight challenged" Belgium girls for you to worry about Jambo, but also means no Irish crew over for the comp.

Lucan
-11th February 2004, 20:55
If the top brits are in Athens, does that there are WC points to be had in
Edinburgh by lesser mortals?

Gav
-12th February 2004, 09:11
Originally posted by Lucan
If the top brits are in Athens, does that there are WC points to be had in
Edinburgh by lesser mortals?

If you finish appropriately then; yes.