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NLSC Sabreur
-19th January 2004, 16:44
http://www.btinternet.com/~andrew.vincent/baf-bfa.htm

I hadn't heard this before.

Highlights

1 BAF to become an Associate body of the BFA

5 Joint Coaching Committee


Have the BAF seen sense, have they surrendered to the BFA, or has the BFA offered them something? You decide! Facts or amusing wild speculation both equally welcome if clearly labelled.

The one thing that I hope might come out of any joint coaching structure is that the BFA abandon the insistance that everyone who wants to coach must become a 3 weapon coach.

Prometheus
-20th January 2004, 14:07
Dag-nab it! I should have checked before opening a thread on this!!

I like the idea - economy of scale, common approach, better harmony, more ideas etc. etc.

Rdb811
-20th January 2004, 14:51
This is to be welcomed - Streatham have a couple of coaches in training which is something we wish to encourage and develop long term.

Winwaloe
-9th February 2004, 15:58
Don't get over excited the promised land won't arrive for at least a hundred years!

Rdb811
-9th February 2004, 17:39
A step up from never !

Winwaloe
-11th February 2004, 08:23
Hope and Faith spring eternal

Rhubarb
-13th February 2004, 13:20
I rather suspect that the powers that be in the BFA have discovered that they have inherited a bunch of 'theoretical' coaches in terms of the hungarian mob and that it is the much lampooned and vilified Academy members that coach most of the fencers.:grin:

Marcos
-13th February 2004, 13:24
if you look at the BAF website, there is a similar statement saying that the BFA/BAF will become associate bodies of each other.

economies of scale idea is good - in Ireland we are trying to get joint insurance for all clubs, rather than each club getting sole insurance...be interesting if it can be done

haggis
-13th February 2004, 21:22
Originally posted by Rhubarb
I rather suspect that the powers that be in the BFA have discovered that they have inherited a bunch of 'theoretical' coaches in terms of the hungarian mob and that it is the much lampooned and vilified Academy members that coach most of the fencers.:grin:

Only the smiley at the end of your post saves you from an outpouring of scorn, although previous posts suggest you have no idea what's involved in the BFA/ Hungarian system. BFA coaching system has only been in place for just over a year so the BAF coaches are still clearly in far greater abundance (the BAF having existed in its current form since 1949). More than half a century of having an autonomous coaching body has brought us to our current exalted level in world fencing. Any criticism (not lampooning or vilifying) of the BAf by me has been directed at the technical content of their syllabus and the stucture of the Academy itself. Some BAF members even still talk to me (although warily, admittedly);)

Regards

Haggis
(theoretical coach, my a$$)

frazzled
-13th February 2004, 22:30
Originally posted by Rhubarb
I rather suspect that the powers that be in the BFA have discovered that they have inherited a bunch of 'theoretical' coaches in terms of the hungarian mob and that it is the much lampooned and vilified Academy members that coach most of the fencers.:grin:

Rhubarb - I am just a parent who doesn't really understand the politics of this all between the BFA and the BAF or even the reasons why a minority sport (when compared to football, rugby, etc.) in this country seems to have two major governing bodies, but I can assure you that the Hungarian coaches are anything but 'theoretical'.

My son has Gabor Bognar for coaching sessions when Gabor is in UK and finds him and the Hungarian syle of coaching fantastic.

It has made a huge difference to sons fencing!!

Winwaloe
-17th February 2004, 11:09
"Originally posted by Rhubarb
I rather suspect that the powers that be in the BFA have discovered that they have inherited a bunch of 'theoretical' coaches in terms of the hungarian mob and that it is the much lampooned and vilified Academy members that coach most of the fencers."

I would suggest that the opposite is correct. I cannot think of any BAF "trained from the ranks" Prof that has a top fencer. True Roy Goodall trained the Harper's (I think I am correct in this) but that was a while back and yes Ziemek W and Laslo J are BAF Prof's However, they were at that level (and above) before being brought into the fold (some would say to add weight to the BAF). I don't think that David Hannrahan or Mark NG are BAF Profs (I could be wrong) and they are at the top of the coaching tree. The BAF and BFA both serve the coaching fraternity well, in their own particular way. I think the BFA is better due to the way they run the courses and the way they assess the coach and are nowhere near as arrogant in their approach.

Rhubarb
-17th February 2004, 11:16
to clarify my remarks:- I do not purport to defend the anachronism and arrogance of the current BAF
I still contend that BAF members coach MOST of the membership.
Top fencers are few, top coaches are few;
I was talking about the general membership.

Prometheus
-17th February 2004, 22:41
hmmm...

I happen to know of two BAF coaches who have foilists in the top 20 and a further 2 who have foilists in the top 50.

I think it is unfair to generalise and therefore class coaches by their governing bodies. Not all BAF coaches ignore the Hungarian methodology or, as appears to be implied, are dismissive of the ideas of other coaching bodies.

fencingmaster
-3rd December 2005, 15:07
BAF - BFA Joint statement

When will we get the next one?

coach carson
-4th December 2005, 19:45
So what is the difference between a BAF coach and a BFA coach? Is there such a thing as a pure breed of one or the other?

Foilling Around
-4th December 2005, 19:51
Originally posted by coach carson
So what is the difference between a BAF coach and a BFA coach? Is there such a thing as a pure breed of one or the other?

One of them is Dyslexic, but I'm not sure which one!

coach carson
-4th December 2005, 19:55
Invite them both to a toga party, and if one turns up as a goat, then we'll have proved your theory.

late starter
-6th December 2005, 19:33
Originally posted by coach carson
Invite them both to a toga party, and if one turns up as a goat, then we'll have proved your theory.

But would the goat be the pure breed?

:)

Adler
-8th January 2006, 15:06
An update from the Academy.

Presidential news (http://www.baf-fencing.org/html/baf.htm)

PM1
-8th January 2006, 16:22
A few interesting thoughts trundle through my mind: I couldn't tell which association any of my son's coaches belongs to except one, and he is BAF , and I nly know that because in the deep recesses of time we have talked about training.

I'm sure their differening approaches makes, well, a difference, but I'm blowed if I can tell from afar. Just let them abide by the same basic housekeeping principles of CP and so on, and then who am I to compare....not being a fencer, that is....;)

fencingmaster
-8th January 2006, 16:43
There should be another statement any day soon...watch this space!

fencingmaster
-21st January 2006, 14:48
http://www.baf-fencing.org/html/baf.htm


BFA / BAF
In late November I received an email from Keith Smith informing me that the Academy had been accepted as an Associate Body of British Fencing. Both organisations have agreed that initially this should be in name only, until the Academy completes the process of submitting its members for inclusion on the BFA coaching register.

fencingmaster
-13th April 2006, 08:52
12th April
http://www.baf-fencing.org/html/baf_bfa_latest.html
http://www.britishfencing.com/Joint%20Statement%5B2%5D.doc

bufc99
-13th April 2006, 09:48
I could be stirring up a can of worms here, but not on purpose and I may be wrong but am I right in thinking that before any joint statements when the Association and Academy were seperate BFA club insurance doesn't stand if you're an Academy qualified coach only if you're association qualified.

Now that they are associate bodies, does this mean that an academy qualified coach (with no association qualifications) can be the sole coach at a BFA club with no loss of BFA club insurance etc.

As I said I may be totally wrong but I'd like to clarify this as I'm tring to get a place on an association course but no dates have been confirmed and it was nearly a month ago I had my last e-mail from the organiser, so if insurance is no question then I might do the academy summer course as well/instead of.

fencingmaster
-16th April 2006, 13:57
Club insurance (ie liability for officers of a club) and an individual's insurance are two separate matters.
A copy of the BFA policy is at http://www.britishfencing.com/INSURANCE04.html
the relevant line is probably
"10. Coaches Register: Qualified coaches on the Register whether they are amateur or professional coaches are covered for 5million Civil Liability."

Individual insurance cover is also included with BAF membership.

So, if you are a BFA member on their coaches register or are a BAF member you would have insurance whilst coaching.

I believe that "Club insurance " does not relate to coaching activities but to the liability of officials....
"2. Clubs The officers of affiliated Clubs [whether individual members or not] whilst performing their official functions, and whilst the Club is operating under the auspices of British Fencing. (Note: Clubs who employ coaches are required to have separate Employers Liability cover)."


At my principal club, both coaches have either or both of BFA/BAF membership as coaches; individual members are obliged to be members of BFA or to purchase social membership of BFA, and all attendees of novice courses pay a fee to include social membership of BFA.

PM1
-16th April 2006, 23:18
Originally posted by fencingmaster
http://www.baf-fencing.org/html/baf.htm


BFA / BAF
In late November I received an email from Keith Smith informing me that the Academy had been accepted as an Associate Body of British Fencing. Both organisations have agreed that initially this should be in name only, until the Academy completes the process of submitting its members for inclusion on the BFA coaching register.

...and to be included on the BFA coaches' register and thus covered insurance wise, you need a valid CRB check.

fencingmaster
-17th April 2006, 11:01
...and to be included on the BFA coaches' register and thus covered insurance wise, you need a valid CRB check.

Both organisations are presently approved by the CRB for the submission of enhanced disclosures.

I have just received my latest through the BFA, the whole process took 9 months this time, previous applications (via schools) took about 6 months.

England Fencing wrote to me in February - quote
"Please note that CRB clearance is a requirement before fencers take the course..."

(my italics)

PM1
-17th April 2006, 11:57
I have no idea why yur clearance took that long. It is usually a matter of weeks in my experience.

pinkelephant
-17th April 2006, 13:48
We've had some done for school trips recently (accompanying adults who aren't on the staff) and they've taken less than 2 weeks.

Yorkie
-17th April 2006, 14:09
Yeah I second Pink Elephant. I'm about to start a PGCE and so had to do the whole CRB thing (my second). Both times it didn't take more than a couple of weeks, so it seems you were just unlucky in that it has taken uncharacteristically long.
[And yes PM1 (also known as big brother!) I'm not just cruising the forum in a lame attempt at procrastination but am on a BREAK from the revision!... might pop round to yours later though for a brew and a hob nob!)

PM1
-17th April 2006, 14:18
Originally posted by Yorkie
Yeah I second Pink Elephant. I'm about to start a PGCE and so had to do the whole CRB thing (my second). Both times it didn't take more than a couple of weeks, so it seems you were just unlucky in that it has taken uncharacteristically long.
[And yes PM1 (also known as big brother!) I'm not just cruising the forum in a lame attempt at procrastination but am on a BREAK from the revision!... might pop round to yours later though for a brew and a hob nob!)
Big MOTHER, get it right !!
And you'll be welcome - I'm surposed to be doing ironing :rolleyes: but probably ought to be doing some CP working out...ooooppss.....

bufc99
-22nd April 2006, 13:49
So, if you are a BFA member on their coaches register or are a BAF member you would have insurance whilst coaching.

Cheers for the insight FencingMaster. Sorry about the late reply, I've been away for the week after the Birmingham with no internet access. Almost killed me.