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Australian
-20th January 2004, 16:05
anyone going to be there...?

i'm not fencing there cos i wasn't in the country for the qualifiers, but i'll go along and referee....

so if you see me in an australian tracksuit come say hi

PM1
-20th January 2004, 17:01
ah !! you've arived - we'll be there this w/e and for the epee, too. Look for the short but large, white haired one. Female, shmoozing around, chatting to Boo Boo and Keith and Barry and loads more.:grin:

Boo Boo
-20th January 2004, 17:12
Hi

I will be there - am also refereeing (far too old to compete... :( ).

Will be the bleary eyed woman refereeing.

Are Keith and Barry going to be there? I know that it is the Corble the same weekend...

Are PinkElephant and 3CT going?

Does Ismay know that you are refereeing, Australian? Are you refereeing one day or two? The organisers are a great bunch - they will look after you.

Boo

PM1
-20th January 2004, 17:35
Pretty sure Barry will be around at some point, but don't think 3CT will be. Forgot it was Corble too .....Keith is USUAlly at BYC's........isn't he??

Boo Boo
-20th January 2004, 18:10
Keith was there last year - at least one day, if not both.

Boo

PM1
-20th January 2004, 18:15
He was certainly there for the boys epee and it would have to be something BIG to make him miss the sabre, wouldn't it ??

twohappyhippos
-20th January 2004, 19:45
hey, the referees will definately treat you well!!!! (i speak from experience!)
i'll be there...but not this weekend, im just going up for the epee on saturday the 7th, then on the 8th im back down in slough! wooo fun!!! hehe. :party: :party: :party:
dont worry, if your there on the same day that i will be, i'll def come and say hi!

The Little Un
-21st January 2004, 02:51
I am sure that they could let me fence in the Youth Competitions after all my mental age is about thirteen, even if my body is slightly older, well...................48 actually.

Best wishes,
Judy

I shall also be at Slough on the 7th and 8th of March.

Ps: Found a good use for a foil today, it does a good job of holding up dwarf beans...................:grin:

The Little Un
-21st January 2004, 02:51
I am sure that they could let me fence in the Youth Competitions after all my mental age is about thirteen, even if my body is slightly older, well...................48 actually.

Best wishes,
Judy

I shall also be at Slough on the 7th and 8th of March.

Ps: Found a good use for a foil today, it does a good job of holding up dwarf beans...................:grin:

The Little Un
-21st January 2004, 02:51
I am sure that they could let me fence in the Youth Competitions after all my mental age is about thirteen, even if my body is slightly older, well...................48 actually.

Best wishes,
Judy

I shall also be at Slough on the 7th and 8th of March.

Ps: Found a good use for a foil today, it does a good job of holding up dwarf beans...................:grin:

Australian
-21st January 2004, 09:39
awesome :)

slough eh? i'll have to investigate that....

the competitions i should be fencing at are:

Edinburgh Int. (maybe)
Inverclyde (maybe)
Birmingham Int. (def)

Boo Boo
-21st January 2004, 10:18
At the risk of getting beaten up by out Scottish members.... Slough is a tougher competition (at least for men's foil and epee) than Edinburgh and Interclyde. So is definitely worth doing...

Details (including entry form) are at http://slough-open.com/

Boo

rory
-21st January 2004, 10:46
Right enough, Slough's tougher. Not that much - NIF last year was low 20s, compared to 12 for Edinburgh in MF.
But it's also near London (expensive and smelly) and in a horrible venue.
(I'm still going though...)

Inverclyde and Edinburgh are both nice friendly comps with a good social side, in great venues in nice places.

Do them all :-)

Boo Boo
-21st January 2004, 10:56
NIF at Slough last year (Men's Foil) was 26. However last year it was not nominated for points for Junior/Cadet world championship selection, this year it is...

Junior/Cadet nomination tends to make quite a difference - if all of the top juniors/cadets go, then generally most of the top seniors go (unless is clashes with a senior A-grade), so the NIF goes up...

So I think that Slough will have a significantly higher NIF this year.

Boo

Boo Boo
-21st January 2004, 10:59
Originally posted by rory
Do them all :-)

Excellent advice, of course :)

rory
-21st January 2004, 11:37
Ah ha. I'd wondered why last years was so weak. I'd even been considering not going this year... but I am.

I remember that in past years the NIF has been as much as 80-odd... fingers crossed it will be again: I need the points!

It's still a nasty venue though.

Boo Boo
-21st January 2004, 11:40
Originally posted by rory
It's still a nasty venue though.

Could be worse - men's epee is always in the hall used for the annual dog show the day before... not that men's epee is aromatic at the best of times...!

pinkelephant
-21st January 2004, 12:03
3CT and Pinkelephant will both be at the BYC - as will their offspring, who has qualified for the foil but will probably referee instead because it isn't epee (bizarre, but then he IS a teenager..........). See you all there.

Boo Boo
-21st January 2004, 12:13
...and referees get looked after and fed (and worked very hard)... :)

Boo

Rhubarb
-21st January 2004, 13:51
I suspect Keith will be at the corble as one of the only people qualified to referee there. needs must;)

Keith.A.Smith
-22nd January 2004, 20:56
Dear All,

Whether you are a fencer, organiser, coach, referee or parent I hope you all enjoy the Foil BYCs this weekend. I will not be there as I have to referee at the Corble Cup. We do not have too many FIE sabre refs.

The venue at Stoke is very good, Steve and Ismay do a good job and I am sure all the fencers appreciate all the hard work put in by the referees to make a very busy weekend work.

We have orked hard to make the BYCs more memorable and rewarding and I hope this will prove the case this weekend.

Equally I hope the Corble goes well.

Keith

PM1
-22nd January 2004, 21:50
Sorry you won't be there, Keith, but needs must and all that.

It now appears that I won't be there on the Satdi either - looks as if the oval ball has won this w/e (or is it staff pressure). HOWEVER, as he is fencing for the Y'shire senior team in Notts on the Sunday, I shall sashay over to Stoke once I have delivered him and come fraternise with the gang.

Anyone want a twin bedded room at the Holiday Inn Express for the Friday night for the princely sum of 35 ono, including buffet breakfast?? There's me, trying to organise early and save dosh, and I end up losing the price of 2 rooms in the same season :(:

Good luck on Satdi, boys.:grin: :grin:

Aoife
-23rd January 2004, 18:37
Whether you are a fencer, organiser, coach, referee or parent I hope you all enjoy the Foil BYCs this weekend.

Thank you!



Few BYC Questions (I did warn you)...

Roughly how many people will be in the poules? (There's a total of 38 in my section).

The 'Check In Closes' list on the information sheets...

It says:


Boys on Saturday, Girls on Sunday
U14 9.00 Start 9.30
U12 9.15 Start 9.45
U16 9.30 Start 10.00
U18 9.45 Start 10.15


Now, does this mean that Boys start with the 9-9.45 times, and the girls with the 9.30-10.15 times, or that are the 9-9.45 times the final check-in times. (Basically, if I'm U/18 Girls, do I need to be there by 9.45 or 10.15?)



Also, does anybody have any idea what time the tournament will end on each day?



Ta very muchly!!!!




(I'm not panicing.... no, not panicing at all... must... not... PANIC! :grin: )

PM1
-23rd January 2004, 18:43
Take a deeeep breath -

the latest you can check in is 9.45, so you can arrive earlier, but not later. If you get held up, ring the number on the bottom of the info.

REMEMBER TO TAKE YOU CONSENT FORM WITH YOU !!!

HAVING CHECKED IN, you then go off to change and warm up, and the poules start at 10.15. Easy.

You'll get chucked out before 6 - usually finish and have presentations 5 ish if not before.

Good luck - I'll be around on Sunday for a bit.:grin: :grin:

Rdb811
-23rd January 2004, 18:58
There should be 6 or 7 in each poule.

I try to get to competitions half an hour before the check in closes, to be on the safe side (after finding a raod closed that wasopen the following day and a spritnt through the car park).

Good luck.

uk_45
-24th January 2004, 10:18
Good luck to all we've got one from our club going tommorw so maybe not to much good luck:tongue: just kidding ya!

PM1
-24th January 2004, 19:47
Just been told that the first 3 are :

1. ROWCLIFFE Tristan - Bristol -someone will be changing his forum handle now
2.DUFFY Anthony - Somewhere in Scotland with a dad who sends me mad emals which I then send on (long may he continue)
3. SHEARMAN Matthew YORKSHIRE, WOO OO !!!!! good on yer, Mat !!!

uk_45
-24th January 2004, 20:19
Congrats to all three, and every one else there, and best of luck to all those still waiting to compete or get results!!!! Well done:mexwave: :jumprain: :cheers2:

Australian
-26th January 2004, 07:51
it was lots of fun....

we were refereeing non stop.... so it was hard work, but i still enjoyed it

Got to do the girls u/18 final, and the boys u/12 and u/14 finals, so i'm happy :)

Boo Boo
-26th January 2004, 09:36
Yes, a good weekend and VERY hard work... higher entry numbers than last year, but fewer refs.

Nice to meet Australian.

Ismay and her team of organisers worked incredibly hard under stressful conditions to do everything - they are amazing and deserve a huge thank you for all of their hard work.

Other results
U18 girls: Hannah Bryars 1st, Maisie Jenyon 2nd (really gutsy, determined fencing from Maisie throughout yesterday)
U16 girls: Celia Shiles 1st, Amber Mills 2nd
U14 girls: ??? (Phillipa Mullins and another Eastern girl in the final)
U12 girls: Frankie Pioli 1st

U18 boys: Steve Glaister 1st, Jamie Kenbar 2nd

This past weekend reminded me what nice, polite kids fencers usually are (with one or two exceptions...). It makes the hard work of refereeing a lot more worthwile :)

Boo

Australian
-26th January 2004, 11:00
yeah they were really cool....

this scottish (i think, i'm still working on accents) kid came up to me at the end and told me that i was the 'coolest' referee he'd ever seen - i wasn't entirely sure how to take it, but it was quite fun :)

Prometheus
-26th January 2004, 11:13
Have you been to Scotland yet?:rolleyes:

Peter Pan
-26th January 2004, 11:26
Claearly a few of the organisers haven't been to Scotland either, as the piste numbers were neatly labelled "English Youth Championships"

GRRRRR........

Well done Anthony, JAmie, Fiona, LIsa, Claire & Kirsty and any other Scottish L8s!

Peter Pan
-26th January 2004, 11:29
and Ali....

Boo Boo
-26th January 2004, 11:36
Didn't notice the EYC reference on the piste numbers...

(The team that run the BYCs also run the EYCs).

Still, that was probably the least of the organisers worries...

... I wonder if having all foil age groups on one weekend is TOO much. The venue is big enough, but there aren't enough volunteers to support it - the referees and the orgnisers were REALLY stretched. Foil is also the most "contentious" of the weapons, so it tends to be more stressful for all involved...

Boo

Prometheus
-26th January 2004, 11:47
EYCs - Episcopal Youth Community - what are they doing there????

Peter Pan
-26th January 2004, 11:54
Boo Boo - no offence intended to the organisers - just a National Pride thing!

As a dad/spectator the pressure & stress didn't show in the hall. I thought the competition was a real success, good organisation, ran very smoothly and only a very small number of referees who were out of their depth. It's good to get a chance to watch and learn from the big-time refs.

And I agree with you about nice, well-behaved chidren. The only bad behaviour I saw was from coaches.

THanks to the organisers

Boo Boo
-26th January 2004, 12:19
None taken by me - I assumed it was national pride - but I know some of the organisers were a bit "ragged" after this past weekend.... they are worth their weight in gold and do it year after year ;) (goodness only knows what will happen when they stop organising the BYCs...).

It is good that the stress is not noticeable in the hall: it is incredibly important that the fencers have no distractions in the competition environment - so they can conentrate on winning :)

Some of the coachs' behaviour was pretty appaling, although some of them were also great (some even helped out with refereeing - which was really appreciated). I am shocked at the behaviour of some of the coaches infront of the kids - its an AWFUL example to set.

I personally will be working on how I treat bad behaviour on and around the piste when I ref. In the past, I have tended to try and ignore it and concentrate on refereeing the fencers. But my aim is to be a lot more active in managing order around the piste - to ensure that the fencers can concentrate on winning their fights, without interference/"Gamesmanship" from coaches/supporters. Its the fairest thing for everybody involved.

Boo

Prometheus
-26th January 2004, 14:51
To paraphrase an American president: 'speak softly and carry a black card [or a big stick]'

Come on tell us some tales then? Was Mark there bellowing at refs again?????

Boo Boo
-26th January 2004, 15:01
Am thinking of a large shot gun slung casually over my shoulder...

...would never name names...

Boo

UglyBug
-26th January 2004, 15:38
What about mums and dads. Were they well-behaved?

Australian
-26th January 2004, 15:52
oh some/most of the parents were great, making pleasant comments and generally being appreciative of what we were doing

i did get one parent who came up to me, mid-fight, to claim that the other girl was covering target when they got in close.... SO i shooed him off and said i'd look at it.

A similar movement occured and i watched for it, and saw no covering by either fencer, so phrased the hit...

He comes up to me at the end, and says that for most of the bout the other girl had her back arm across her target... so i replied that i was watching, and if i'd seen any of it i wouldn't have hesitated to card and annul hits. So he replied:

"I'm sorry, but you're just wrong"

I just wandered off at that point and had a bit of a laugh....



Mark liked my refereeing tho.... which i've been told can be a rare occurance. I was actually in the DE with a coffee when he came in and expressed his opinion on me and asked if i could do more.

Australian
-26th January 2004, 15:54
any people on the forum that were there that i didn't run in to?

didn't see Aoife there... tho i'm guessing she eventually got there :tongue:

I met BooBoo + husband, PM1, barry, and a few others, and all incredibly accomodating and very nice people

Boo Boo
-26th January 2004, 15:57
There are always a few problems with the occasional parents who is a bit ignorant of fencing: "but his light came on first!" and the parents who believe (hope?) that it's ther kids hit no matter what happens...

But, 99% of parents were really lovely (just like the kids) :)

Boo

Australian
-26th January 2004, 15:59
Originally posted by Boo Boo
But, 99% of parents were really lovely (just like the kids) :)


very very true

some of the little girls were incredibly sweet, and the guys were really funny

Boo Boo
-26th January 2004, 16:05
My only real complaint is about the U12 boys: they all look too similar - it's really hard to differentiate between them in the poules! ;)

Boo

PM1
-26th January 2004, 20:11
Glad I came over yesterday, even tho' son wasn't fencing in Stoke but in Nottingham. Good to meet Australian and Boo (at last !!!). Lots of really good and lovely compliments from the Yorkies, and I actually had a good chat with Ismay.

I missed Aoife, too, but I know she was there as I saw her name on the running list, and ranking list after the first poules.

Hope everyone had a real good time - see some of you in a fortnight !!!!!:grin: :grin:

Keith.A.Smith
-26th January 2004, 21:57
Dear All,

Thank you to all of you who refereed and especially to Ismay and her team for organising the BYCs for I think ther third year at Stoke. I am sure it was really appreciated by the fencers, parents etc.

I am sorry to hear that some coaches were being aggressive or rude to the refs. What the refs need to do is use a Black Card if necessary.

We were pretty tight at the Corble Cup too but the fencing was very good and James Williams made the top 16.

Keith

2ndpl=1stloser
-26th January 2004, 22:33
Absolutely

This was a great day.

I got warned for shouting at my daughter to warn her about crossing the back line. I didn't realise I was cheating & grovelled accordingly - I'm sure lots of excited parents did silly things. It WAS exciting and I hope it's as good next year.

Off topic - how young can you be to fence at cadet level and where can I find a list of cadet comps?

Thanks

PM1
-26th January 2004, 23:43
Go onto the BFA web site, into ranking, click onto women's cadetfoil and there you should find the current ranking list, which shows you the nominated comps. Best thing is to get in touch with the poits co ordinator (can't remember who the girls one is, but it'll be on the site) and express an interest - there is usually info at the beginning of the season about which comps are nominated for ranking purposes. remember - can't do any opens until 13 on Jan 1 of the season in question. LPJS are good, and Premier.

I have to report however, that I was told it was very difficult to find out which comps were nominated - but this was a couple of years ago, and I haven't a fencing daughter.....

Boo, do you know ?? anyone else out there know??:confused:

PM1
-26th January 2004, 23:48
Found it !! all safely where I said it would be, and more.....

2ndpl=1stloser
-27th January 2004, 00:11
bottom line is treat cadets as adult competitors, you say? I understand U 13 at Jan 1 can't fence +18 but can U13 fence U-18 .... and where apart from

http://www.fencing.org.uk/2004/2004-rank-girl14.htm

PM1
-27th January 2004, 00:24
Go to foilcommittee.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Junior_rules_etc/Junior for the BFA cadet rules etc, and go to the LPJS site on the Leon Paul web site - full calendar for u11,13,15,17.

Don't like treating smallies as adults - not safe....

2ndpl=1stloser
-27th January 2004, 00:34
So I right, U 13 cannot fight cadets?

Tubby
-27th January 2004, 00:49
Originally posted by 2ndpl=1stloser
I got warned for shouting at my daughter to warn her about crossing the back line. I didn't realise I was cheating & grovelled accordingly

Have you watched the video back yet? You've got to keep it for posterity or even as a training aid for refs!

I saw Aoife, she looks just like the photos and as tall, but I didn't let on as I thought how would it look if I went up to a 16 year old girl and said "you're Aoife aren't you", "yes I am", "good luck then", "thank you", "bye", "bye" - see? A total non starter!

Boo - did you ref the girls U12 final?

2ndpl=1stloser
-27th January 2004, 01:11
Not yet

A little bit worried as the grand children may perceive me to be uncharacteristically wimpy as I'd left my Magnum in the car.

Saxon
-27th January 2004, 05:28
Just a quick note of thanks on behalf of Ismay and her bunch of hooligans for all the positive comments from our "customers".

It's an extremely stressful weekend, foil more so than epee/sabre. We had an immense difficulty finding enough referees - those who were able and willing were an incredible crew who hardly stopped all weekend, but there have historically been some "issues" with stroppy/dodgy coaches, parents and fencers (in that order) which seem to discourage referees from wanting to take part. There are only a very few, but when they are loud enough, they can spoil the atmosphere for everyone.

The Goog Guys though - Boo, 3CT, PinkElephant... You all know who you are, even if I haven't quite worked out all the names yet - many many many thanks, and please come again. Especially epee and sabre refs, who we will need in two weeks' time. If you don't think you're up to it, call Ismay anyway, and have a chat.

Particular mention goes to Australian, who even gave Chubby a bit of a stab when they both got itchy foil hands.


Oh, and the piste numbers? Yes, we run the EYCs too, for our sins, and the first few numbers are marked as such. The higher (later printed) numbers have BYC markings on one side, and just the number on the back. On the other hand, I suppose it's helpful to remind foreigners where they are so that they go in the right direction when they leave ;)


All the best, and see you in two weeks!

doobarz
-27th January 2004, 08:10
Originally posted by Saxon
Especially epee and sabre refs, who we will need in two weeks' time. If you don't think you're up to it, call Ismay anyway, and have a chat.

Any more details of this event? Where? What? How to contact an organiser?

Boo Boo
-27th January 2004, 09:21
2ndpl=1stloser, I am afraid that I don't know much about who kiddies can and can't fence. I know that you have to be 13 to fence in opens and I believe that you have to be 13 to fence in Junior A-grades (hope I am not imagining that...).

Is you daughter a part of the "Tomorrow Achievers" programme? It is a regular training programme run by Clare Halsted and Linda Strachan and is particularly aimed at promising young foil fencers. It brings the best of the younger ones (most are pre-cadet) together for training days. I believe that the programme is invitation only, but it might not hurt to politely enquire about it if your daughter is not already invited...

Probably the best people to talk to are Clare and Linda. Clare's email is on http://www.foilcommittee.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Junior_rules_etc/Junior%20%20cadet%20women%20%20information%202003% 20%204%20season.htm The email address given for Linda there is out of date, I have a current one for her at home if that would be helpful.

Tubby, no, I refereed both U12 semi-finals. I wanted a little bit of a break after doing both semi-finals, so someone else did the final.

Saxon, can't work out which one you are, but working with you lot is always a pleasure :) I hope that you have a successful - and much less stressful - sabre/epee BYCs. You all do an amazing job.

I also saw Aoife, but only from a distance whilst I was refereeing. I did attempt to find her to say "hello", but I think she went pretty quickly (because I couldn't see anyone who looked like her).

Boo

Boo Boo
-27th January 2004, 09:25
Originally posted by doobarz
Any more details of this event? Where? What? How to contact an organiser?

Its the British Youth Championships Epee and Sabre finals. It's held at the Fenton Manor Sports Centre in Stoke-on-Trent (where the Winton Cup was held last year). It's the same weekend as Slough. The organiser is Ismay Cowen.

More information (including contact details for Ismay) can be found http://www.britishfencing.com/bycfour.pdf or http://www.britishfencing.com/britishyouth.html

If you are thinking of offering your services to ref, I am sure that they would be very happy to hear from you.

Boo

doobarz
-27th January 2004, 09:34
Originally posted by Boo Boo
If you are thinking of offering your services to ref, I am sure that they would be very happy to hear from you.

Boo

Thanks for the information, but I'm busy that weekend.

Australian
-27th January 2004, 09:38
Originally posted by Tubby
I saw Aoife, she looks just like the photos and as tall, but I didn't let on as I thought how would it look if I went up to a 16 year old girl and said "you're Aoife aren't you", "yes I am", "good luck then", "thank you", "bye", "bye" - see? A total non starter!


got further than i did - mind you i was mostly refereeing u/14s and u/18s on the girls day.... plus the fact i haven't seen any pictures... which might have also been a problem, hehe


Originally posted by Saxon
Particular mention goes to Australian, who even gave Chubby a bit of a stab when they both got itchy foil hands.


i did what to who and why?

Boo Boo
-27th January 2004, 09:42
Originally posted by Australian
i did what to who and why?

You fenced ChubbyHubby ;)

Boo

Australian
-27th January 2004, 09:55
ohhh

i get it now :tongue:

ChubbyHubby
-27th January 2004, 10:26
Very much appreciated after "standing around" reffing all Saturday. Felt a lot less worn out after a few hits. I am sure reffing is more tiring than fencing.

(still recovering from "psycho grandma" of one of the fencers...)

bydande
-27th January 2004, 10:28
I would like to add my thanks to that of DonJaimie and others for what certainly appeared to be a smooth and well run compeition. My youngest daughters only complaint was that it ran too smoothly for her to hit the chip counter between her last pool fight and her first DE. Very pleasanly surprised to be able to hang around for my eldest daughters medal at the end and still be back home in darkest Scotland before midnight - result.

I also though the refereeing was generally pretty good with just a couple of exceptions - two teenage referees who both looked nervous and unsure of themselves before they even started. To be honest I felt more sorry for them than cross about some of their decisions. Unfortunately other coaches/parents seemed less restrained in coming forward with criticisms of their refereeing - which of course made them even more nervous. It is very difficult for a teenager to give a 40yr old coach/parent a black card so my preference is always to see a more mature referee capable of standing up to coaches and parents who step over the mark.

For example, in my daughters L16 DE she was fighting a very nice girl with a nice father who had been in the same pool as my daughter. We had chatted to them before the fight on very amicable and friendly terms. The fight started and after a few points the referee gave a point to my daughter which one of the other girls more senior supporters (coach maybe?) thought should have have gone the other way - and in fact my daughter acknowledged to her opponent that she though it should go the other way as well. The supporter then wondered across and commended me for my daughters good sportsmanship. Next play the referee gives the point to my daughters opponent even though everybody thinks it should have gone to my daugter - the supporter of my daughters opponent even acknowledges to me that it was the wrong decision. So at this stage we have the scenario where the referee appears to have made a couple of wrong decisions and is starting look nervous. Both groups of supporters are cogniscent of this but are behaving in a dignified manner without any direct attempts to influence or question the referee.

But then another supporter of my daughters opponent turns up. A young guy in a GBR tracksuit who proceeds to openly question the referees decisions - trying to explain to the referee why she has just made a wrong a decision - and openly coach my daughters opponent. The referee being much younger than Mr GBR tracksuit (and maybe intimidated by the GBR tracksuit) does nothing. so what am I mean to do now? Do I :
a) try to counter Mr GBR tracksuit's influence by doing exactly the same thing myself - obvioulsy I dont want to do this because it is unfair on the already stressed referee and two wrongs dont make a right.
b) confront Mr GBR tracksuit face to face so that he is prevented from influenceing the referee or coaching his fencer. Might stop the problem but might also escalate it.
c) go to the DT and get somebody to come and sort the troublemaker out. Best solution - but fight might be over by the time I get back.

In the end I have to admit that I go for option B and at least it results in Mr GBR tracksuit trying to argue with me rather than the referee. But this is hardly ideal behavour in front of kids is it. Then, thankfully, at the first break the referee decides that she is out of her depth (or just too stressed) to continue and gets a more mature male referee to take over. So things now beome a bit more stable but then there are a couple of "togther - one light" decisions to my daughters opponent and my daughter asks the referee to test her foil - but the referee turns round to see that Mr GBR tracksuit has stepped onto the piste behind his back and disconnected the opponents sword for "straightening" thereby negating the validity of testing for a problem in the opponents circuit. Anyway, it turns out that my daughter has lost the tip from her foil so the referee annuls the last point - at which point Mr GBR tracksuit steps forards and argues as to whether this should happen or not. All in all it was a really unpleasant experience but luckily the behaviour of Mr GBR tracksuit so annoyed my daughter that it merely increased her determination to win - which thankfully she did.

But having said that we still enjoyed the day (amazing what a medal does for team moral) and will definately be coming back next year. So thanks to everybody for a fun day out.

Alex

ChubbyHubby
-27th January 2004, 10:57
at the first break the referee decides that she is out of her depth (or just too stressed) to continue and gets a more mature male referee to take over.

I remember that fight because the poor girl (the ref) came over and literally begged me to take over refereeing the fight as if her life depended on it.

Fortunetly for me as the 1 minute break came to an end I got called to ref another fight (even though I had no intention of taking over that fight :confused: ).

"Mr GBR tracksuit" doesn't worry me, on many occasions I've just said "[his name], please go away", and he does - even if he creeps back. It's his boss you have to worry about...

Boo Boo
-27th January 2004, 11:05
Blimey, he (Mr GBR Tracksuit) had quite a day on trying to intimidate refs on Sunday...

... personally when he tried it on me I just ignored him - I had to, in order to keep my mind free to referee correctly and unbiasedly: you can't let yourself be intimidated or your refereeing be distracted or influenced. Also, like animals, once they begin to smell fear... you've had it :(

... will be working on the "go away" and carding tactics though :)

Boo

Australian
-27th January 2004, 11:12
i very nearly carded him in the u/14 boys final, but he stopped and left before i reached for my pocket

bydande
-27th January 2004, 11:28
I felt really sorry for the girl (the referee). My daughter and I chatted to her before the fight and she seemed a nice cheerful girl who was doing the decent thing by helping out with some refereeing. Its a real shame that she has probably been put off refereeing for life.

2ndpl=1stloser
-27th January 2004, 11:31
It would be wrong for anyone to infer from this comment that I am talking about the same guy...

One coach at a Premier Series event was reffing a fight between his fencer and my daughter. In between some curiously awarded points he actually coached his fencer in a laughable stage whisper.

It was a truly amazing performance. My daughter found it hysterical.

He may or may not have been wearing a baseball-cap. I can't remember.

Prometheus
-27th January 2004, 11:34
A perennial issue then

The problem is confidence of referees from the sounds of it.

How do you get the strong refs to attend. At the Juniors/Cadets there was none of this, I guess mainly because these coaches knew what would occur.

Boo Boo
-27th January 2004, 11:58
2ndpl=1stloser, that is shocking!!! Coaches should not be allowed to referee their own fencers in the first place... (although, I know that some can referee fairly and unbiasedly in such a situation, its not a good idea at all...).

Not sure it is the confidence of the referees, exactly... more the coaches "trying it on" - they see if they can get away with it (one way or another). If they can't, they give up... Even if you are completely confident in your refereeing, having a coach "try it on" can be pretty nasty.

I know what Australian is talking about: certain coaches have made an absolute art of making some out-of-order comment and then walking very quickly away (to avoid arguing/being carded)...

Still it is an issue. Getting enough referees is difficult enough. Getting enough that can/will put up with hassle will get increasingly more difficult.

Boo

Prometheus
-27th January 2004, 14:26
Sorry - didn't clearly state what I meant. Confidence to card.

So not just the referees at this particular competition but in general. Only at Internationals do you actually tend to get professional refs in any abundance and even then the behaviour that has been tolerated has been quite extreme.

Perhaps it is the British habit of wanting to avoid an awkward situation that is the cause but for instance the only black card I have seen given was by a Hungarian to a Dane........

Of course that's not to say no such thing has occured involving British Presidents but purely statistically is that an anomaly or does it back up my a priori hypothesis.....

You notice in clubs how unwilling intermediates are to give cards for turning, corps a corps etc. etc.

Really quite shocking when you consider it!:eek:

I remember when I first arrived at the club I now trained at and I presided a bout and carded one for turning , the response was - we don't bother to do that here as if it were some insult I had uttered.:confused:

Anyway they do it now :moon: because I make'em.

So I would say 'you' are all in some way responsible not directly perhaps but until rules are applied strictly from top t' bottom you can't really expect it applied at all competitions, can you?

Rhetorically: So Boo, how often do you card at your club (don't tell me they never commit offences, been there and I've seen it)? Or are you worried about offending people?

Australian
-27th January 2004, 14:41
i might not be british, but i have no hesitation of handing out cards - but at club level they should be used in order to correct faulty technique, rather than to penalise.

tho giving cards for covering target rather than reversing line of shoulders is incredibly weird to me...

Boo Boo
-27th January 2004, 14:41
Ok, rhetorically I don't card at clubs - I do warn people though.

To be fair, there are not many cardable offences where I fence...

Do many people card at club training?

Boo
(realising that carding confidence is definitely something to work on....)

Rhubarb
-27th January 2004, 14:42
Same old people causing the same old problems.......foil will REALLY have to clean its act up or end up with no-one willing to be the one taking abuse.
We do have refs in this country whom these people respect/ are wary of*(delete as appropriate). Mike was there at the w/e and from what I hear, representations against him were made to the organisers. Keith Smith and Ian Hunter were reffing @ the men's sabre 'a' grade. All of these guys (and others) can handle themselves but when it comes to interference being run behind the scenes you have a problem. Until the 'chinese whispers way of running foil comps in this country is tackled then I foresee major problems because I can't identify the NEXT lot of up and coming foil ref's. And who can blame people for being unwilling to participate in an ongoing horror show

Australian
-27th January 2004, 14:45
but thats ok tho....

if a coach/spectator/fencer has a problem with a referee, it should be directed at the DT, not the referee him/herself.

If anyone had any problems with my refereeing i would want it to be directed at DT, rather than me being confronted with it during or after a fight.

2ndpl=1stloser
-27th January 2004, 16:08
It would be helpful, then, to receive a clear statement from event organisers regarding what is acceptable behaviour and what actions are open to any attendee if they feel that the rules are being broken.

Many parents are uncertain what to do, either in how far they can go in encouraging their own child or addressing objectional behaviour. For example, didn't think of the DT option, whatever the DT is.

It doesn't have to be that long, I wouldn't have thought.

If coaches are making a habit of interfering during fights but are sly enough to spread their poison thinly to avoid censure from one particular referee in one particular fight, then that referee should immediately bring that person to the attention of the rest of the referees. If he or she opens his mouth again he will immediately be carded.

Not that difficult, surely.

Marcos
-27th January 2004, 16:18
carding at club training

depends - yes for an illegal move (such as crossing feet in sabre) but not for equipment and stuff

club comps or a "serious" bout in training yes...gets ppl used to it.

at a local comp I feel sorry for a student who turns-up with uni kit that doesn't work, but you got to card them as it holds-up the entire event

a right pain having to preside but someone gotta do it - would be hard to give more than a red tho. have been temnpted to give a black to disruptive spectators but couldn;t go through with it.

doobarz
-27th January 2004, 16:23
I have asked my club to consider including teaching of the rules to beginners. I think people piste side should be aware of what they can and cannot do - no parent would want to be rewd carded and have a hit awarded against little Jonny I'm sure...

Maybe the BFA should produce guidance for parents, then they could tell their wee ones to pull their socks up with authority....

Rhubarb
-27th January 2004, 16:33
Doobarz Wrote:-I have asked my club to consider including teaching of the rules to beginners. I think people piste side should be aware of what they can and cannot do - no parent would want to be rewd carded and have a hit awarded against little Jonny I'm sure...

Sorry to be a pedant but little Jonny is not penalised by the actions of his maniac parent. This is how eroneous interpretations of non-existant rules come about.

Boo Boo
-27th January 2004, 16:50
Originally posted by doobarz
Maybe the BFA should produce guidance for parents, then they could tell their wee ones to pull their socks up with authority....

This sounds like a VERY good idea: BFA guidelines for parents/supporters (to include coaches)...

The resource could be kept online and you could give copies out to parents before and/or at the BYCs/EYCs/Juniors/Cadets etc...

Boo

Insipiens
-27th January 2004, 17:15
May be this seems a bit unrealistic, but if you have a spectator/coach etc persistently making comments and then making a swift retreat from the piste, should the confident presidents (like Australian) not card them as they walk away?

:gunner:

I cannot remember (am too lazy to look it up) whether cards awarded to spectators only last one bout (I would have thought not) but it would perhaps deter some hit and run interference.

After all it seems fairly clear that some persistent perpetrators are farily recognisable?: :vader:

doobarz
-27th January 2004, 17:27
Originally posted by Rhubarb
Sorry to be a pedant but little Jonny is not penalised by the actions of his maniac parent. This is how eroneous interpretations of non-existant rules come about.

Apologies, a slight confusion over the rules for individual and team competitions.

So the parent is just red/ black carded, with little Jonny's embaressment being the only penalty.

PM1
-27th January 2004, 19:49
Doobarz/Boo Boo - handouts for parents, etc... BRILLIANT idea. Must talk to somebody about it, and soon.

Actually, it might be something that LPJS take up ? Loadsa kids start with LPJS and the season is now upon us, so possibly not this year/end of the season, but in a bit.

Talking about pulling socks up........refs don't seem to do this very often - more important at epee I guess, but shouldn't they all be at least capable of being pulled up over the knee/to meet the breeches??

I've even offered to go into DT (Directoire Technique - HQ) myself next year, or even out on the floor proper - that'll scare the b......ds.......:grin: :grin:

doobarz
-27th January 2004, 21:24
Originally posted by PM1
Doobarz/Boo Boo - handouts for parents, etc... BRILLIANT idea. Must talk to somebody about it, and soon.

Tell you what, I'll start it, and then get someone official to proof read it and correct the errors....

Saxon
-27th January 2004, 21:50
Even had a comment from one parent (who is also a fencer, coach and referee) that when they spoke to another "supporter" (one who should know better) about his side-of-piste coaching, the reply was "I'll do it until the referee tells me to stop".

I sense that most of the people this weekend were enjoying the competition, and treating it as a competitive yet friendly event, whereas there were some who knew exactly what they would be able to get away with, and exploited it to the full.

One solution would be to treat the various "offenders" differently - if someone really doesn't understand, then relative leniency and an explanation will work fine, but for someone who should know better (e.g. "that riposte under the arm isn't working, try somewhere else"), then make sure they don't (or can't) do it again.

I suppose that this would depend on the less qualified referees knowing they will be backed up by DT provided they have correctly applied the rules. Also, to a certain extent, not caring whether their removal of a "top" coach/referee from an event will have a detrimental effect on them in the future.

From my point of view, I'm not a foilist, so it wouldn't bother me one bit if I never got invited to referee at certain events because I had annoyed certain people.


Apart from anything else, if I annoy enough people, I get a load more free weekends

:grin:

Prometheus
-27th January 2004, 22:57
Originally posted by Boo Boo
Ok, rhetorically I don't card at clubs - I do warn people though.

To be fair, there are not many cardable offences where I fence...

Do many people card at club training?

Boo
(realising that carding confidence is definitely something to work on....)


hmmm carding - you get used to it - in fact you become a power crazed madman rushing around weight checking peoples' weapons on a club night - hang on - I've said too much :o

Sorry Boo, shouldn't have used you and your excellent club as an example earlier - very caddish of me :(

Prometheus

(not expecting anything but a complete thrashing from chubbyHubby next time I see him :confused: - what again!)

PM1
-27th January 2004, 22:58
Doobarz - go for it. One of Keith/3CT/Ian etc will check it out, I'm sure. Just let me know what you want me to do......:grin:

Prometheus
-27th January 2004, 23:09
I can save you the trouble:

If you check out http://www.usfencing.org/ (www.usfencing.org)

Go to the Committee Websites section and then 'USFA Parents committee'

You'll see a parent guide to fencing, it covers this question in it plus some other useful stuff........

PM1
-27th January 2004, 23:39
Ta - will go visit......tomorrow:)

PM1
-27th January 2004, 23:48
ok - I lied - VERY interesting, and of course, very Americanised, but a very good place to start.

Doobarz - you still game??

Keith - are you happy that we do this??

(what the hell am I letting myself in for................will somebody save me from myself......)
:grin:

Tubby
-28th January 2004, 01:13
This reffing thing is why I've bought the daughter 3 epees (2 size 2 and a 5) and she'll be let loose onto the LPJS epee circuit. Sure, she will continue to fence foil but its a tricky one - how do you philosophise with a 10 yr old about "well honey sometimes you get a dodgy one" (and we've all been there) without denting her competitive edge where she shrugs her shoulders and gets demoralised by a decision or worse get confused about how to fence in order to get ROW.
Don't get me wrong. I have no complaints about the reffing in any of her matches on the weekend and for the most part thought the standard of reffing very good. Though I don't think any ref should apologise to any fencer for giving a hit against them even if they're wearing GBR on their lame - as I saw happen on Saturday. Thats totally unfair on the other fencer. Anyway back to my point which is as you travel around the country you come across different standards of reffing which of course is understandable. I applaud folk who actually give up their time to help run comps and put something back into fencing. However, when you've got a less than average ref, and even though the daughter has won the gold and been undefeated on the day, she'll be sitting in the car on the way home wondering why a couple hits didn't go her way, then you get the question, "dad.....". Of course she never asks why she got points she shouldn't have. But on such little things hangs a good weekend or one full of recriminations. And a dodgy ref has an impact long after the comps finished, and by the way they are never forgotten.

So do I keep the girl wrapped in cotton and tell her foil is only for fun but epee is for serious competition? Or give her character building lessons by letting her roll the dice on the foil circuit? There is a Rubicon in this household that needs to be crossed.

By the way Boo reffed a couple of my daughter's fights and did an excellent job. And no, the daughter didn't win in case you were wondering.

On the subject of objectionable coaches/supporters, at one of the LPJS Foil events last year, one such person a fencer, was shouting instructions to their fencer, the ref then asked him to leave the side of the piste which was then followed by a very robust argument with the ref. A "dad" then stepped in between the ref and the supporter and very politely asked him to step off the piste (as he had by then ended up on it with the two fencers looking on). The supporter then offered to fight the dad on the piste. By this time the DT had been called and the unrepentant young man was asked to leave the piste (but not evicted or carded). Don't know what can be done, I know what should have been done, but I'd have been in front of the beak if I had. Its a pity the kids had to see it and when the daughter asked whether the guy was on drugs all I could offer was a probably.

Prometheus
-28th January 2004, 08:18
Tubby,

Where's m'black card!!!

It's all a question of education. The whole purpose of the penalty system is the provide limits for safety and fair play. If this penalty system is not used then you get this situation develop.

I guess as far as wrong decisions are concerned I know the feeling you have, having been at the LPJS with my fencers there are on occasion some inteesting reffing gaffs e.g. giving double hits in the U9 foil :). OK , perhaps an amusing rather than terrible example. This though was caused as there were not enough refs present on the day such that a parent presided who use to fence many years previously and at Sabre. He hadn't realised that he was doing it wrong until I (politely) drew him aside and offered to take over.

It goes to show that there are not enough refs being drawn to these competitions.

My attitude to wrong decisions by refs is to tell my fencers that it is part of the game and to not mull on it. I found myself as a foilist that by allowing myself to be upset it would affect my game so I now just tut tut and get on with it.

As far as taking up epee. Hmmm, I'm not a fan of starting epee at a young age due to the heavier weight etc. and the classic arguement that foil teaches honed technique etc. I realise this only my opinion and I know there to be successful examples of this being done but it is your decision of course, what does your coach think?

Gav
-28th January 2004, 08:39
Reffing from the side isn't just a problem at junior tourney's - as we all know. Recently I was fencing someone and his coach was coaching him from the side. No-one was doing anything about it. I wouldn't have minded too much except for the fact that he was waving his hands about and I could see them out the corner of my eye. It was distracting so in a break I walked over and told him to p*** off. No-one carded me for that either.

I like this idea for hand outs.

Neil Brown
-28th January 2004, 09:00
I've written (plagiarised) one already. It includes repechage tables for cadets fencing in Germany.

Go to www.fencingcoach.net & look for - Click here for information for British cadet (U17) sabre fencers & their parents

Rdb811
-28th January 2004, 11:40
Originally posted by Prometheus

As far as taking up epee. Hmmm, I'm not a fan of starting epee at a young age due to the heavier weight etc. and the classic arguement that foil teaches honed technique etc.

Having seen some kids clatter into one another as beginners I'm now very much against the idea of starting on epee - a steam foil is pretty forgiving if you haven't got your co-ordination right.

Tubby
-28th January 2004, 12:39
Originally posted by Prometheus
some interesting reffing gaffs e.g. giving double hits in the U9 foilOh yes - Cambridge, I was so confused by the scoring as I wasn't really watching, just keeping an eye on the score as you do. Ha!

Anyway the daughter's coach thinks its a good idea as if nothing else it may encourage her to keep the parries neater when fencing foil.

The daughter's coordination is very good and she can actually beat on the backfoot step into a lunge which I can't do with any certainty! So her coordination isn't a problem. She's also a larger boned child (sturdy) so can actually manipulate a size 2 epee with lightweight guard.

bydande
-28th January 2004, 13:47
I saw a lot of body contact at the BYC's, especially in my younger daughters category - U12. In most cases the fencer at fault wasnt even warned let alone yellow carded and in one pool the referee didnt even call halt for it. Picture it - two wee girls clatter into each other, both turn to look at the ref who just looks back at them so the girls then start sawing at each other from -1 inch range until a light comes on.

To be honest my own wee girl was as often cuplrit as victim when it came to corps a corps and I would have been perfectly happy to have seen her yellow carded when she clattered into her opponent - because she needs to learn not to do it. And conversely, I would have also liked to see some of the much bigger girls who almost knocked her off her feet on occassions also get warned/yellow carded.

It may seem a bit heavy to yellow card the kids for this when many are not actually in full control of heir bodies but that is exactly why physical contact is a potentially dangerous occurence for the U12's and worthy of more consistent handling by the referees.

Tubby
-28th January 2004, 15:07
I know what you mean. Contrast that to one of my daughter's opponents who on weapons check, foil failed the weight test, yellow card, second foil failed the weight test, red card. Third foil passed. Daughter one up and an opponent who will not make the same mistake again.

Australian
-28th January 2004, 15:15
that very easily could have been one i was refereeing....

did that to a girl on the sunday

Tubby
-28th January 2004, 15:28
Yep - the aussie tracksuit sort of gives it away. Not like me to give compliments to aussies over here (as most of the time during the summer I'm taking it under the ribs if its too full to duck under or fetching the ball back from over the fence) but you did a good job reffing on Sunday. Though , and I'm being churlish now, if you're going to go the hand signals, do the hand signals and not the cut down version (though you may have been saving your strength for the finals or realised that the girls didn't know what all the hand waving was about). :tongue:

Tubby
-28th January 2004, 23:43
Two last comments about refs at the BYC on Sunday - promise.

Opponent of the daughter half way through a fight lunged, daughter parried, reposte off target onto the non-fencing hand clutched to opponent's chest. As the opponent is shaking her hand because it hurt she gets a yellow card. 30 seconds later daughter lunged opponent parried but brought her non-fencing arm across her body - red card. And quite right too.

Who was the distinguished white haired gent in the suit reffing on Sunday? Ohh he was very good. That is until - opponent attacked, daughter parried quasi hit to flank one light on ref showed her a black card. "What tha....." I took two steps forward, like you do, to make polite enquiries as to what the bloody hell was that for when I notice him starting to write on the black card which turned out to be a black Handspring Visor (or similar PDA) which he had been holding in his left hand when he was signalling a point to his left! :tongue: Swear to god, it looked like a black card, and I'd thought it was all over.

doobarz
-28th January 2004, 23:50
Originally posted by Tubby
Who was the distinguished white haired gent in the suit reffing on Sunday? ...black card which turned out to be a black Handspring Visor (or similar PDA)

That would be Mike Thornton, scribe of the Unofficial Rules...

Australian
-29th January 2004, 10:34
Yeah, he has a little fencing program on his PDA, allowing him to score, and all sorts of things.... wonderful device really.

Tubby - maybe i was holding a clipboard + timer + pen or something...i dunno? Thats the only reason i can think of why i would slack off on my hand signals... i'd like to think i'm usually pretty good with them.... meh :)

Boo Boo
-29th January 2004, 10:49
Tubby, please empty your inbox - I have the second half of a PM to send you... :)

Boo

bydande
-29th January 2004, 11:07
Anybody know when the full BYC foil results will be published on the BF website - or have they already been published elsewhere? Will we have to wait till after the Epee/Sabre weekend for all the results to be published together.

Tubby
-29th January 2004, 12:17
Originally posted by Australian
maybe i was holding a clipboard + timer + pen or something...i dunno? Thats the only reason i can think of why i would slack off on my hand signals... i'd like to think i'm usually pretty good with them.... meh :) Fair play - you were holding a clipboard + pen + stopwatch, sometime clip board stuck under your arm which made the parry signal a bit awkward :grin:

Aoife
-29th January 2004, 13:04
didn't see Aoife there... tho i'm guessing she eventually got there

Yeah I did. However, I wasn't feeling overly great for the first poule, so I was shrinking into my seat a lot.



I saw Aoife, she looks just like the photos and as tall, but I didn't let on as I thought how would it look if I went up to a 16 year old girl and said "you're Aoife aren't you", "yes I am", "good luck then", "thank you", "bye", "bye" - see? A total non starter!

I was confused for a second then with "and as tall" thinking 'hey, I'm not tall... oh." :)

I wouldn't have minded a hello, it was rather alienating at first the way that everbody there knew each other from other competitions, and I still didn't know how to plug in my electrics!

Pink Elephant said hi, but as it was in the first poule I'm afraid I may have just grunted a little (it wasn't going well, and my coach didn't turn up so I was feeling rather hopeless, I picked up in the second poule though, and raised my ranking two places by actually managing to beat somebody! :) )



I also saw Aoife, but only from a distance whilst I was refereeing. I did attempt to find her to say "hello", but I think she went pretty quickly (because I couldn't see anyone who looked like her).

I was knocked out in my first DE. But I didn't mind, I was utterly enthralled at playing on a real piste- and a copper one at that! :grin:



Do many people card at club training?

I warn and occasionally yellow card the kids (only if they're mucking around, just to get them to stop it).



Talking about pulling socks up........refs don't seem to do this very often


My Dad, who doesn't fence, but by the nature of being near me gets the jist, was moaning every few minutes about people he'#d seen fencing without socks up. It's his major bug-bear.

ihunter
-29th January 2004, 18:27
I look forward to seeing/meeting some of you guys at the epee&sabre w/e. Remember your plastrons:cool:

PM1
-29th January 2004, 20:28
Tubby - that white haired guy - Mike Thornton - is an FIE epee ref. And I'll rib him about this, if he hasn't read it already.....I see a decent bottle of red coming up, of yes I do.......lol

Sorry I didn't get to speak to you, Aoife....I THINK i saw you, and asked our Rebbeca if you were in her poule, but she doesn't remember names. Typical. Hope you enjoyed the experience - and your dad.

Andy W.
-31st January 2004, 21:31
Having recovered from the jet lag involved in slapping up to Stoke and back I'd like to join the general love in about how good the ref'ing was. From the youngest to the oldest the standard was good and objective. (is it a sign of age that the refs seem to be getting younger? I'd swear one lad was only just older than the competitors in the U12! Even so he was one of the best, clear signals and audible scoring). If only the standard could be as good on the rest of the circuit.

I saw a lot of hands/arms in front of target and none of our refs carded anyone, one sharp off target to the hand seemed to remind the less expereinced why their coaches spend so much time to keep their hands to the rear! The nationals are the only comps where I have ever seen any attempt at weapon checking (in the Uk) perhaps it would help if this could be taken up on the LPJS? I don't want to scare people off just stop them getting unnecessay penalties at their first 'big' comp.

However, I see i was not alone in witnessing a pretty appalling bit of bullying by a certain coach. The ref involved may have been young but he was right. DT might have usefully been a bit more visible when he was around.


:)

3 Card Trick
-31st January 2004, 22:53
The nationals are the only comps where I have ever seen any attempt at weapon checking (in the Uk) perhaps it would help if this could be taken up on the LPJS?



The Arnold and Warwick LPJS are weight and gauge tested throughout.

Tubby
-31st January 2004, 22:58
Ahh, good old epee - thanks for the warning. I'm hoping to enter the lass for those comps and better brush up on my epee armoury skills (like acquire some)

pinkelephant
-1st February 2004, 09:45
Hi guys - just caught up on this lot having been away for a week inspecting a school (referee at the weekend, inspector all week - I just want someone to love me!!!!!)

Nice to see Aoife, who was obviously nervous in her first pool, which was full of VERY experienced fencers, but she didn't look out of her depth and was making her opponents work for their victories. Keep it up, kid!!!!

Will be at BYC epee, but probably not sabre due to the clash with Slough. May well not be reffing epee after the events of last weekend - will be supporting son and other pupils instead. (Son will be fencing not reffing this time). (Usually don't get a chance to support puppils as reffing instead - seem to have a different set of priorities to some people.) Nice to see Boo, ChubbyHubby &co - Boo, do you EVER stop smiling? And nice to meet Australian, who is an excellent referee.

pinkelephant
-1st February 2004, 09:54
Originally posted by Tubby
Ahh, good old epee - thanks for the warning. I'm hoping to enter the lass for those comps and better brush up on my epee armoury skills (like acquire some)

What we do at both competitions is this. During the pools, weights and gauges are used. If a weapon fails, no card is given, but the weapon may not be used. This gives time to get them sorted out before the DE, where rules are fully enforced, with cards. This enables the less experienced fencers to get used to the idea that weapons have to be legal, while not disadvantaging anybody. We like to be legal but nice!!

PM1
-1st February 2004, 23:45
AAAAhhhh!!! But you are ALWAYS nice, and helpful, pinkelephant !!will take great delight in introducing you to Tubby if I can persuade him over to Arnold, and if he survivies a comp he is running on 15th Feb, poor b.......:grin:

Marcos
-9th February 2004, 16:29
results are up - not a bad haul by the Northern Irish lads

and well done to Chris Schofield!

gladiator
-9th February 2004, 17:34
Congratulations to all who fenced at the BYCs epee and sabre last weekend. I was pleased by the fencing standard (sabre anyway, don't know anything about epee!) and behaviour over the weekend with the odd usual exception. Was good to see all the usuals there to ref as well as meet Australian who has now learnt to ref sabre as well! Was also surprised to see there were two DTs called during the epee on saturday. There was a female sabreur who was quite het up, never found out why, anyone know? Think she was shouting and swearing and having a go about the ref afterwards (just out of earshot of me and the ref), not sure though.

U16 Boys Sabre was more interesting than normal due to certain members of the Brentwood team being in training for Plovdiv so absent. Was also impressed by tigger's little u14 sabreur James Honeybone. First time I think I've watched him fence. It was a good final too.

A big thank you as well to Steve and Ismay Cowen and their team who all worked very hard to pull it all off, despite computer trouble!

Exgeordielass
-10th February 2004, 11:03
Originally posted by Marcos
results are up - not a bad haul by the Northern Irish lads

and well done to Chris Schofield!

Thank you Marcos. Son was definitely on form, was worth the horrendous journey up Saturday night. :grin:

NIce to see you again on Saturday.

Exgeordielass
-10th February 2004, 11:06
Where are the results by the way?

I can only find the BYC Foil results on the website.

Boo Boo
-10th February 2004, 11:10
http://www.britishfencing.com/bycepsb.html

Hope that helps :)

Boo

Exgeordielass
-10th February 2004, 14:08
Originally posted by Boo Boo
http://www.britishfencing.com/bycepsb.html

Hope that helps :)

Boo

Thank You.:)

Boo Boo
-10th February 2004, 14:09
Any time :)

madfencer
-26th January 2006, 10:37
Originally posted by Australian
it was lots of fun....

we were refereeing non stop.... so it was hard work, but i still enjoyed it

Got to do the girls u/18 final, and the boys u/12 and u/14 finals, so i'm happy :)

urgh I didnt know it was you there reffing there for the U18 girls...I was there cheering on Lisa like crazy...I was standing right by you...I would have said hi if id known it was you! hope u had a good time anyway even if it was a bit tiring!

ChubbyHubby
-26th January 2006, 10:53
Originally posted by madfencer
urgh I didnt know it was you there reffing there for the U18 girls...I was there cheering on Lisa like crazy...I was standing right by you...I would have said hi if id known it was you! hope u had a good time anyway even if it was a bit tiring!

Don't think Australian was there this year, unless he has put on 40 years or so! I think this is the 2004 thread for bycs.:lolbash:

Foilling Around
-26th January 2006, 10:56
Actually it is the thread from 2004!!!

Australian
-26th January 2006, 11:05
Originally posted by madfencer
urgh I didnt know it was you there reffing there for the U18 girls...I was there cheering on Lisa like crazy...I was standing right by you...I would have said hi if id known it was you! hope u had a good time anyway even if it was a bit tiring!

heh, nah i'm actually in Chennai as we speak, so i'm guessing it was unlikely to be me.

Maybe i'll be there next year....

madfencer
-26th January 2006, 11:52
Originally posted by Australian
heh, nah i'm actually in Chennai as we speak, so i'm guessing it was unlikely to be me.

Maybe i'll be there next year....

oh right must have misread your post then :dizzy:

madfencer
-26th January 2006, 11:55
Originally posted by ChubbyHubby
Don't think Australian was there this year, unless he has put on 40 years or so! I think this is the 2004 thread for bycs.:lolbash:

why was this thread up for new replies then...?? that is so strange! i replied coz i thought it was a new reply.... :dizzy: oh great another thread reactivated for no reason...sorry Gav! :confused:

pinkelephant
-26th January 2006, 12:02
U18 final THIS year was reffed by Jim Philbin, who is not, and never has been, Australian.

Boo Boo
-26th January 2006, 12:33
Originally posted by pinkelephant
U18 final THIS year was reffed by Jim Philbin, who is not, and never has been, Australian.

and is one or two years older than Australian... ;)