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Gav
-2nd May 2003, 07:31
Well they ARE tis weekend in Glenrothes., It looks like the turnout will be poor [as usual]. Should we continue to hold them when we consider that SF must make a loss on organising the event?

Gav
-2nd May 2003, 07:39
For the record I put down that I care. I mainly care because there are some competitions that get organised and no-one seems to want to go. It has been suggested to me that SF should hand the trophy to the best performing Scottish fencer of the year [based on rankings]. If no-one is willing to fence for the title then this seems logical however I would rather see people fence for it. There are a few competitions that just do not seem to get off the ground in Scotland these days. Is apathy to blame?.


Tournaments that have problems getting off the ground:


One Hit Epee (I see that Dundee has started its own).
Adult novices.
Adult Intermediates.

Sasori
-2nd May 2003, 13:38
All those comps can and should run. The enthusiasm is there amongst the fencers. Advertising is the problem.

Before anyone asks, NO, I'm not willing to put my money where my mouth is and start organising comps...

gofence
-2nd May 2003, 14:25
Gav,
As you know I would like to care and do care - but cant show my caring because SF have sold their soul to AllStar UK for a few shekels and a camel!

There are probably numerous reasons for poor attendance at these events (the adult novices was cancelled this year because the hall hire was twice the income from entry fees) such as poor publicity and marketing but I would also like to raise the possibility that many fencers from smaller clubs (such as mine) may feel intimidated and relucant to turn up and make fools of themselves. I think they would probably surprise themselves, and a few others, but they need to be sold the idea of turning up at a fun day out.

By the way, the reason I am not competing at the Scottish Open is because I will be supporting my daughter who is competing in the U13 championship on the same day. Its difficult for a fencing dad to be in two places at once.

I have been giving serious consideration to organising and sponsoring competitions because SF have totally ignored me - too busy getting into bed with AllStar instead. As a result I will probably end up supporting and sponsoring club events rather than SF events.
goFence

kingkenny
-2nd May 2003, 15:17
If a comp was run well it would be great but so many comps are run badly. Organisation is the key there is no reason the Scottish Championship could not be as good as the comps in france and Germany the fencing might not be as good but I knew the supports would.

bydande
-2nd May 2003, 15:35
Speaking of supporters - after wednesdays game of footba' (and I use the terms "game" and "footba'" loosely) there must be a large number of Scottish supporters looking for an alternaive sport to support. It would mean moving the pistes closer to the bar and having a pie shop open during the DE breaks - but surely it would be worth it to get a good crowd in.

FossilFoil
-2nd May 2003, 16:33
This forum seems to be taking off rather well perhaps this would be as good place as any to start advertising all British Comps (attching entry forms etc). A full calendar of all the comps would be great to have in one place - one could then pick and choose quite easily. As it is you need to go to several places to get all the competition info. I'm not sure how Scottish Fencing would feel about advertising on a Leon Paul sponsered site, though (impartial as i'm sure they are)!!:confused:

haggis
-3rd May 2003, 20:32
Went along to the Scottish Championships today and found that hardly anyone cares. 15 fencers in the MF and 7 in WF. Embarrassing.

bydande
-3rd May 2003, 22:20
Although we are happy to blame SF for many things - I wonder if the clubs should also shoulder some of the blame for poor attendence at the Scottish Championships. Neither of the fencing clubs I regularly attend made any effort to encourage me or other members to enter.

Whilst I was wandering around the half empty hall today, I heard that in the past the Scottish Championships has been a by "invitation only event" with only the best fencers invited and everybody else excluded. Do you think that this "elitest" past might be putting off many fencers from entering.

In any event, I think it is a real shame that so few people entered and personally I point the long thin knobbly finger of blame at both SF and the clubs who should do more to publicise the event with a "more the merrier" approach.

Would a "plate" competition for all those fencers knocked out in the first DE round encourage more people to attend.

bydande
-4th May 2003, 09:05
Do you think it would make the Scottish Championships any more popular if it was combined with one or more of the other poorly attended competitions like the novices and intermediates?

It could be done on a division basis with prizes for the winners of each division. Winners of the lower divisions would be automatically promoted but at least it would give them some opportunity to compete and win fights beore coming cannon fodder for the top fencers. And for some people the idea of "winning" promotion would be a real incentive to turn up.

Obviously a lot of things would need to be considered to make it work - like the division eligibilty rules - but do you think it would encourage more people to turn up?

Arturo
-4th May 2003, 14:40
Yeah,

As usual Scottish Champs turnout was a disgrace. From a personal POV, the medal I won was pretty worthless, as I didn't have to beat anybody decent to win it. As far as I'm concerned, somebody of my level shouldn't be able to get to the last 4 in the Scottish Champs 2 years in a row, as there are many better fencers than me out there. They just don't turn up, thus devaluing the whole competition.

As to why the experienced fencers don't turn up, I don't know. This year I think it was better publicised than normal, yet the attendance was still poor.

From talking to a few beginners, they don't want to come because they think the level at the Scottish Champs is going to be higher than that of a normal open. Basically, they don't want to go along and get a mega ass-kicking, as opposed to a standard ass-kicking. Did persaude our star beginner to come along, and she had fun, despite getting beat up. Hopefully her experience will encourage more of our beginners next year.

Perhaps we need cash-money prizes, or more prestige for this title. Big ceremony, a crown, a sash and picture in the Daily Record next to scantily-clad females.

I did like the idea of compulsory attendance for members of the Scotland team in the Commonwealth year (even though I believe they flexed it). How about a rigid rule which states that all fencers who wish to be picked for Scotland in that given year have to fence in the Scottish Champs? No exceptions and no rule bending. If everybody know this to be the case, then knowing that the 5 or 6 top Scottish fencers were going to be there might encourage others to come along.

Don't know if the divisional idea is a goer. I'm not sure we have enough fencers in Scotland to support this.

haggis
-4th May 2003, 15:47
Worthless medal...Arturo

Saw a few of your fights and, even in a poorly attended, thought you fenced pretty well. Even in the fight where you were knocked out you gave a much more experienced (and better) fencer a pretty hard time. Focus on performance and results will come. Focus on results and always be disappointed. On top of that you were the first fencer I've seen tucking into a doughnut during the minute break. :cookie:

Plus you can always blame your exit on the poor quality refereeing.

:shrug: <- Haggis refereeing!?

Regards

Haggis

Arturo
-4th May 2003, 16:44
Cheers, Haggis!

TBH, I am focussing on performance. I went to the Champs with the simple goal of fencing properly the whole day, and I didn't care if I finished last. Normally I just stop thinking and charge in. Yesterday I actually thought about what I was doing and my tactics. So, yes, think I did fence not bad, but had all the best fencers in Scotland turned out I wouldn't have reached the semis.

Do intend to get a couple of lessons a week now, coz I do think if I give myself a chance I could be not bad. Better do it now before age gets a hold of me!

BTW, I said I would eat the whole donut within the first minute break as a reward for making it that far. Failed in that as well, as I only managed 3/4!

Wish I could have blamed your presiding. Alas, there was nothing wrong with it. Conrad had one perfectly executed and timed stroke that I couldn't handle, and he scored repeatedly with it. Feel I let him control the fight in first three minutes. Once I started to take it to him a bit more I got more hits, although that could just have been because he felt it was wrapped up. Main thing was, I enjoyed it!

Sasori
-5th May 2003, 14:59
The Sunday wasn't much better attended.

15 Mens epee, 9 Ladies Epee, 9 Mens sabre, 5 Ladies Sabre (I pity the one ladies sabreur that DIDN'T get a medal!)

We did our best to encourage fencers from our club to go along, and got 5 medals to show for it, but like Arturo says, what are they worth? (No offence to those who won them of course)

Advertising of the event seemed to be the main problem. I'd forgotten all about it till Gav asked me for a lift to it!

It's just a real shame that they couldn't repreat the entry from last year. That was a competition worth winning, but it was only busy cos you had to be to get a commonwealth place, but that's another story...

haggis
-5th May 2003, 15:24
Sasori

What do you mean the Men's Epee medals weren't worth much? A reliable source tells me that although the entry was small, the quality was unprecedented, the medallists all outstanding fencers and the winner a man of fencing genius!! Since you were there surely you would have to agree!?

Congratulations

Haggis

Sasori
-5th May 2003, 15:48
Haggis,

Flattery will get you... well anything you like really!

My Mum's dead chuffed though! :tongue:

I do feel a little like it's was worth less than some of the opens, like I said, if they could regularly get the attendance they had last year. Myself, I'll be happier when I win Inverclyde, so watch out!

I guess it's not up to just SF to get folk there though. Each club has to do it's bit to get folk there.

Going back to what Bydande said about the divisional thing, that's what the Adult Novices and the Intermediates are, and anyone who is a member of SF can enter the championships, so I don't see a need for them to be combined, only for them to run.

Sasori,
RCPFC Epee Champion, West of Scotland Champion, Scottish Champion.

Gav
-5th May 2003, 15:51
RCPFC Epee Champion

You're only that because I couldn't make it!

haggis
-5th May 2003, 15:54
Sasori

I'm sure you will be happy when you win Inverclyde. In fact, looking at the entries that are in already you'll be rightly f***ing delirious.;)

Sasori
-5th May 2003, 16:03
Originally posted by Gav
You're only that because I couldn't make it!

And that stands for yesterday too right! :moon:

Gav
-5th May 2003, 16:04
And that stands for yesterday too right!


Aye! :yoda:

Sasori
-5th May 2003, 16:05
Originally posted by haggis
I'm sure you will be happy when you win Inverclyde. In fact, looking at the entries that are in already you'll be rightly f***ing delirious.;)

I will think more of it, as it was the first Competition I ever went to, so it has a special place in my heart. If no-one else turns up, that's not my fault, I'll gloat all the same!:tongue:

twohappyhippos
-5th May 2003, 16:08
im london based, but fence for scotland. i didnt hear about these champs untill it was mentioned on this forum thnread. A bit of bad organisation me feels.i would have gone up for them, but seeing as i didnt know about it, and the fact that it was run on the same weekend as the excalibur i didnt go.

rory
-6th May 2003, 10:06
Scottish Champs results I know of:
MF (15 entrants):
1) Keith Cook
2) Conrad Chin
3) Mike Logan
3) Scott Brodie
5) Rory Gibson
6) Anthony Duffy
7) Mark Donaldson
8) ???
...
15) ??

LF (7 entrants):
1) Anna Bentley
2) Tracy McKenzie
3) Lisa McKenzie
3) ??
...
7) ??


Anyone else care to post the rest of the results?

And on another note, have you epeeists noticed that Marek Stiepen is fencing the Inverclyde? Go and fence or at least - he's worth watching. Not often you see world class athletes at the Inverclyde.

Except me, of course. (Yeah, right)

Sasori
-6th May 2003, 11:06
Mens Epee (15 entrants)
1st Derek Robertson RCP
2nd Sam McFarlane EFC
3rd= Mark McKenzie GWEFC
3rd= Brett Sheffield RCP

then in the last 8 were Stephen Miller, Henri Techer, James something and a kid who's name I can't remember. Don't know whet the final order was though.

Ladies Epee (9 entrants)
1st Judith Holmes RCP
2nd Christine day RCP
then 7 others...

Mens Sabre (9 entrants)
1st Chris Jamieson, or was it Gordon, I can never remember
2nd Rob Anderson

Ladies Sabre (5 entrants)
1st dunno
2nd dunno
3rd= Elaine Kellet GWEFC
3= dunno
5th dunno

That's all I can remember...

Sasori
-6th May 2003, 12:20
Mens Foil

11th Brett Sheffield RCP

Ladies Foil

3rd= Christine Day RCP

Arturo
-6th May 2003, 14:29
Ladies' Saber:

3rd Kirsty McIntyre GLASGOW UNI

Best looking bloke of weekend award:

ME

Best shade of ginger hair award:

ME

Hudson
-6th May 2003, 14:37
Fencer with biggest ego.
Arturo
:grin:

haggis
-6th May 2003, 14:50
Sorry Arturo. Anyone eligible for second category :eek: is automatically disqualified from the first ;)

rory
-6th May 2003, 15:02
Arturo also wins the "scariest driver" award.
"White-knuckle ride" doesn't come close!

:dizzy:

Hudson
-6th May 2003, 15:05
Carful if it carries on like this someone will start a society for the protection of Arturo
:grin:

haggis
-6th May 2003, 15:08
Hudson

A one-member society?

Arturo
-6th May 2003, 16:09
Please stop. You know how sensitive I am and how deeply these barbs wound me. I was only trying to boost my fragile self-esteem by pretending I could be a worthwhile human being even though I am cursed with the ginger gene.

When they find my body, dangling limply from a beam (if I can find one), they will pluck a tear-stained note from my hand, and the names of Haggis, Hudson and Rory will be writ large as those responsible for my suicide.

Anybody want me to leave them anything in my will? Obviously not any of my fencing kit because, frankly, it smells like my rotting corspe is going to in a few days.

I hope you're all happy.

haggis
-6th May 2003, 21:02
I'm happy.

I'll take your foils though. Presumably they can't smell too bad. Oh and if you've got any money, nice cars, property, that sort of thing, they'd be nice too.

Seriously, Arturo, don't take on so. Some of my best friends are ginger (actually that's not true) Besides you've got to receive Inverclyde entries. Maybe wait til the end of the Inverclyde weekend and find a nice steel beam in the sports hall....then one less ginger plaguing the planet!!:grin: ;)

Arturo
-7th May 2003, 10:22
OK. Will wait until after Inverclyde medal ceremony as grand finale to tournament. Perhaps I should sell rotten fruit at 5p a pop before I jump so that people can pelt my corpse. Then I can leave you the profit in my will, as well as my foils.

How's that?

haggis
-7th May 2003, 10:28
Sounds great!! Can I pre-order a £1 bag of rotten fruit now. It reduces my profit a little but I think it'll be worth it.:grin:

Arturo
-7th May 2003, 11:14
No probs. Do you want Exotic (Kiwi, Mango, Star Fruit & Paw-Paw) or Trad (Apple, Orange, Banana & Tomato)?

Sasori
-7th May 2003, 11:49
how much for coconuts??

Arturo
-7th May 2003, 12:22
You're in luck. I just got a lovely bunch. Very cheap. Not sure you're physically capable of lobbing a coconut, though. Maybe a grape is more your mark.

Mark
-8th May 2003, 21:58
Many moons ago the Scottish Championships was a really good tournament. It was restricted to the top 16 in each weapon and everyone fought hard to get the points throughout the year to be able to enter.

It lost interest when it was cancelled one year becaused it clashed with the Commonwealths.

The points system in Scotland has started again but so far I don't think many people have paid much interest to it ( points are awarded for results in the 5 Opens).

Lets get the points system working again by using it to gain entry to the Scottish Champs. This way the Opens will all be better attended and the Scottish Championships will once more become a tournament everyone wants to win. Then all the top fencers will come back to it.

Adam
-11th April 2007, 13:21
Notice this is penciled in for the 9th of June on the Scottish Fencing calendar.

As this is going ahead, now is not a bad time for members to cock an eye to June and make noises at their clubs. Plenty of lurkers and non-forum (ie, sensible) people who would love to do this.

Based on the faces that arrived at the excellent 48er run recently by Glasgow West End fencing club and comparing with the entry to the Edinburgh Open, there really are lots of fencers that enjoy and want to fence. Preconceptions of an 'appropriate' tournament and potential feelings of intimidation should be arrested now!

Difficult not to mention that some of the names listed previously on this thread are those of positively crabbit characters who cast their long shadows over my first weeks fencing!

Aye, so express the situation in the club and pub. :grin:

HB Pencil
-11th April 2007, 13:49
I started fencing in Scotland nearly 3 years ago and have attended nearlyevery Scottish Comp since i started tho i missed the scottish open this year as i was in Spain - the joy of being a uni fencer and having field work!

I even attended intermediates last year finished 3rd :S but since then ive finished in last 8s etc so cant attend these comps. Yet i have never heard of a Scottish Championship until i read this on the Forum today. So ive got to blame bad publicity as i would have other wise gone.

KJK
-11th April 2007, 13:54
The points system in Scotland has started again but so far I don't think many people have paid much interest to it ( points are awarded for results in the 5 Opens).

Where are these ranking lists then? I can only find them for the Junior/cadet fencers. DO they exist for the adult fencers? I did see them up when Commonwealth selection loomed but cannot spot them at the moment. Guidance would be appreciated.

Tubby
-11th April 2007, 15:06
Is the Scottish Championships to clash with the Scottish LPJS (foil and epee)? Dusty will just love that...

Gav
-11th April 2007, 17:15
Are we certain that this has been resurrected? Has anyone contacted rumour control (aka SF admin)?

Some tournaments seem to be kept in the calendar in case they run...

Adam
-11th April 2007, 23:25
Spoke with SF before making post. All signs are pointing to yes.

O*N
-12th April 2007, 09:10
All signs are pointing to yes.

Did they decide to host it based on the opinion of a Magic 8-ball? ;)

D'Artignan
-12th April 2007, 11:02
Did they decide to host it based on the opinion of a Magic 8-ball? ;)
That's what the Government appear to do before deciding some of their policies, so why not?

uphillstruggler
-12th April 2007, 18:07
Given the poor turnout, would it not be prudent to link this with selection. I have seen many of the SF team lists and some lack genuine Scottish fencers. I understand demographics and population shift change the domestic location of families and therfore lineage is used. But would compulsory attendance at the Scottish Championships, (given a suitable non-clashing date - if there is one!) make selection more justified and at the same time improve the quality and the attendance.

fencingmum
-12th April 2007, 19:17
Have to admit I hadn't even noticed it was on - would normally have encouraged fencingdaughter to go.....
mind you, am now discovering why so many uni fancers stop doing the open circuit....

fencingmum
-12th April 2007, 19:39
Oops! Ever felt an idiot - just looked at the dates on this thread!
Must now go and read properly.....

Mum
-13th April 2007, 18:53
The Scottish Championships WILL take place this season.

However it will not be on 9th June as previously advertised. SF Administrator is currently sourcing a venue for the preceeding weekend, to avoid the Clash with the LPJS. As soon as this is confirmed the details will be available on the Scottish fencing website.

Adam
-16th April 2007, 13:57
Scottish rankings are now up on the SF website.

http://www.scottish-fencing.co.uk/pages/detail.asp?article_id=360

Lynne
-16th April 2007, 14:01
Given the poor turnout, would it not be prudent to link this with selection. I have seen many of the SF team lists and some lack genuine Scottish fencers. I understand demographics and population shift change the domestic location of families and therfore lineage is used. But would compulsory attendance at the Scottish Championships, (given a suitable non-clashing date - if there is one!) make selection more justified and at the same time improve the quality and the attendance.

In Commonwealth selection years, Welsh Fencing insist on attendance at the Welsh Closed Championships.

AussieSabreur
-27th April 2007, 17:49
16+17th June, in Grangemouth.

http://scottish-fencing.com/pages/detail.asp?article_id=230

D'Artignan
-28th April 2007, 00:13
Grangemouth???!!! I'd have to get out of my kip more than ten minutes before check-in!!! Bring it back to Glenrothes.:D Even if I did miss it a couple of years due to work "forgetting" I'd asked for the time off...:(

NLSC Sabreur
-30th April 2007, 10:05
Given the poor turnout, would it not be prudent to link this with selection. I have seen many of the SF team lists and some lack genuine Scottish fencers. I understand demographics and population shift change the domestic location of families and therfore lineage is used. But would compulsory attendance at the Scottish Championships, (given a suitable non-clashing date - if there is one!) make selection more justified and at the same time improve the quality and the attendance.

Could you give your criteria for non-genuine Scottish fencers?

Mum
-5th May 2007, 20:02
Will all trophy holders from the last Scottish Championships please make themselves known to the SF Administrator? We'd like to have a full set of trophies available for what we hope will be a vibrant and exciting Championships this year.........Get your entries in soon!!

uphillstruggler
-6th May 2007, 17:01
Could you give your criteria for non-genuine Scottish fencers?

Surely this an emotive subject and I do not want to add fuel to the flames of patriotism. My suggestion was if you claim to be Scottish then you put your loyalty to the test by fencing at the Championships for the country you wish to represent. I would say the same for England, Ireland, Wales and any other country.

KJK
-7th May 2007, 14:14
If the dates had not changed:( then we would have attended. As it stands we have other commitments now on the 16th and these cannot be changed. To give everyone a fair chance of entering, the dates really need to be published well in advanced. I think the idea of a Scottish Championships is a good one but when you have worked your season out in advance then late changes to the calendar are not easy to slip in particularly when the fencers concerned are in the middle of sitting very important exams. The 9th would have been good but the 16th is a no go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NLSC Sabreur
-8th May 2007, 10:44
Surely this an emotive subject and I do not want to add fuel to the flames of patriotism. My suggestion was if you claim to be Scottish then you put your loyalty to the test by fencing at the Championships for the country you wish to represent. I would say the same for England, Ireland, Wales and any other country.

Like KJK I need advanced warning and I need to be sure of the date. Time off, travel and accommodation need to be arranged in advance. The following weekend is the Cole Cup for which everything has been arranged well in advance. If I was in Scotland a few weeks notice would probably be fine but I'm not and I wont be there.

fencingmum
-9th May 2007, 10:02
That's also the weekend when several of the Edinburgh FC members have booked flights to Milan for a fencing excahnge trip. So count them out too. Flights are paid for.

rory
-9th May 2007, 12:00
This competition really is cursed, isn't it?
On the few occasions it has run in the last few years it's been a disaster... looks like 2007 will be no different.

MrsWFFC
-9th May 2007, 14:28
I'm not sure that several fencers telling us they are unable to attend is sufficient grounds for saying the competition is going to be a disaster - IMHO that's one way of helping to put people off entering it and we should be trying to encourage folks to do it!

A small competition with few entries doesn't automatically make things a disater a poorly run competition is a disaster and this can only be decided AFTER the event and can happen at large and small events. :)

The Champs haven't been held since 2004 as far as I can find out and certainly in 2004 they were not hugely attended if memory serves but I think I'm right in saying it was a post Commonwealth year and quite often numbers are lower at many competitions post Commonwealth.

If some of our "in with a chance of winning" fencers from EFC and other places are disappearing to warmer climes or unable to attend for other reasons that merely opens the field for the "up and comers" to have a pop at achieving a Scottish Championship title...........


It is a shame that SF have had to move the dates but we don't know why this was done it may have been completely outwith SF's control. Last minute changes to the calendar are always annoying but sometimes it can't be helped and you change your plans according to your priorities - for me I probably won't go to Inverclyde cause I'll be doing the Youth series and the Leon Paul and the Champs and I felt 4 weekends on the trot was too much so something had to give and its probably Inverclyde (not that I would have been fencing so the organisers aren't losing out on anything other than my presence!)

But the upshot is get your entries in if you can and help to make the competition a success - I'm sure the organisers will be doing their best to make it a fun day for everyone who attends

Skartha
-7th June 2007, 13:22
My entry's sent off - anyone got an idea what the best way of getting there is? Bus? Train? (I don't remember a Grangemouth station, though I may be mistaken).

NLSC Sabreur
-11th June 2007, 12:31
Good luck to everyone involved.

On the details page this appeared.
"Please note that the organisers reserve the right to cancel any competition that does not have a reasonable number of entrants on the closing date."

It's an honest statement but not exactly heart warming. As the closing date is 3 days before the competition it doesn't exactly encourage making plans for it. If the competition is cancelled only 3 days before surely the organisers wont get much of the hall hire fees back for such a late cancellation?

I think that the more usual method (such as 2 weeks before £15 charge, with late entry £20, and £30 on the day) would be better.

Scottish Fencing has people's emails? (they have mine anyway). I think a mass e-mailing promoting the competition would not be out of order when things are being organised late. Perhaps my spam box eat such an email but other messages from Scottish Fencing have reached me.

Bambi
-11th June 2007, 14:31
So who is all going?? I've only just found out it its still running and that it has changed to next weekend so about to send off my entry, hopefully will get there before closing date!!

HB Pencil
-11th June 2007, 18:46
HAHA ill b seeing you there bambi just sent emailed to let everyone know that i shall be attending :D
hopefully i can shift this chest infection b4 saturday or ill be the whooping boy :S

Tho i bet ud luv that bambi :P

AussieSabreur
-11th June 2007, 19:52
I'll be there, hopefully with a few more glaswegians in tow.

Nick_C
-12th June 2007, 13:05
What is the point of National Championships now (excluding the British ones)? What does entering them or winning them actually achieve? Having entered and won the Welsh Closed sabre this year and not been selected for anything, I have been asking myself this question. Are these comps just for fun now? If so, that's probably why the good fencers dont turn up.

Commander
-13th June 2007, 11:59
What is the point of National Championships now (excluding the British ones)? What does entering them or winning them actually achieve?

It must be pointed out that a high proportion of Scottish fencers rarely or never cross the border to compete, whether they're adult, junior,cadet or
vet.
Therefore, it makes sense for SF to organise as many competitions as possible
in Scotland to generate an interest.
It will be a low standard competition with a very small number of entrants, but
I do not think it matters.
The point is to provide an opportunity to compete and have fun for the fencers who are ubable or not willing to travel out of Scotland to attend
proper competitions. YES! FUN! Don't we all fence for fun and love of the sport?
It happens to be called 'Scottish Championship' but no one expects it would even remotely resemble the British Championship in anyway, it would be closer to the Leon Paul Junior Series. So, it doesn't matter what ever it is called - 'ROB ROY CUP' or 'HAGGIS SHIELD' perhaps?
Anyway, whoever takes the Scottish titles at the end of the day will have a tale to tell his or her grand children, "I was once a Scottish Champion ......."
Isn't it FUN?
Good luck!
Commander

Lynne
-13th June 2007, 12:59
What is the point of National Championships now (excluding the British ones)? What does entering them or winning them actually achieve? Having entered and won the Welsh Closed sabre this year and not been selected for anything, I have been asking myself this question. Are these comps just for fun now? If so, that's probably why the good fencers dont turn up.


Same as regional championships really - to be able to bring in some revenue for the region, and to be able to say that you won it :) The Welsh Champs are used to help with selection in Commonwealth Years, although there's always that caveat that selectors can select whomever they deem fit anyway.

The Tigress
-14th June 2007, 09:04
So, it doesn't matter what ever it is called - 'ROB ROY CUP' or 'HAGGIS SHIELD' perhaps?


How about the "Clarke Trophy" to sum up Scottish Fencing.

Scotland has a hand full of good fencers and most live in England.
Few if any will make the effort to show their faces at this competition.
The standard in most weapons is low which creates a very poor impression for the sport, especially because this is to crown the champions of Scotland in fencing.

No wonder funding bodies like Sports Scotland do not take fencing seriously especially when a very average fencer can become a champion of a country,
the same fencer would probably be cut at the British Nationals.

Helen Mulrine
-14th June 2007, 09:43
How about the "Clarke Trophy" to sum up Scottish Fencing.

Scotland has a hand full of good fencers and most live in England.
Few if any will make the effort to show their faces at this competition.
The standard in most weapons is low which creates a very poor impression for the sport, especially because this is to crown the champions of Scotland in fencing.

No wonder funding bodies like Sports Scotland do not take fencing seriously especially when a very average fencer can become a champion of a country,
the same fencer would probably be cut at the British Nationals.

QUOTE Scotland has a hand full of good fencers and most live in England. Few if any will make the effort to show their faces at this competition.

I find this comment a little unfair. My daughter also lives far from the venue, but it absolutely wasn't the question of NOT making an effort to show her face, what Scot would not like a bash at having the title of Scottish Champion....The point is we found out about this comp way far too late to make any arangements and she already had a comp organised in Italy along with a few fencers from EFC. Like many fencers we organise our fencing year usually when all the nominated comps have been announced, although the Scottish championship MIGHT not give much NIF points ,had we known about it , it would definately have been on our list. I'm sure many other Scots scattered around the country who already have a full fencing calandar and have to work out dates and financial costs do the same as us.
Hopefully the Scottish championships will be organised in 2008 but PUBBLISHED at the same time as the rest of the calandar. (At least before Chirstmas)

Bambi
-14th June 2007, 10:06
[QUOTE]Scotland has a hand full of good fencers and most live in England. Few if any will make the effort to show their faces at this competition[QUOTE]

I hate it when people use distance as an excuse. Studying in Aberdeen means I have to travel about 2 hours to get to a comp, the doric open and dundee duels are the only exeption.

AussieSabreur
-14th June 2007, 10:19
The standard in most weapons is low which creates a very poor impression for the sport, especially because this is to crown the champions of Scotland in fencing.

No wonder funding bodies like Sports Scotland do not take fencing seriously especially when a very average fencer can become a champion of a country, the same fencer would probably be cut at the British Nationals.

I'm beginning to feel that if I want to retain any credibility as a fencer then I have to not show up! :confused:

The competition, like all competitions, will reward the best fencer on the day. If the 'good' fencers don't show up then that's their choice, but whatever your ranking you can't be the best fencer on the day if you aren't there to prove it.

I won a club championships once, means nothing in the grander scheme of things of course, just that I was best at that event on that night and got to take a trophy home. Nobody ever suggested it was silly for the club to run a championship when it was a lower standard than the state championships and some of the club members couldn't make it.
Scotland may be a country rather than a club, but I don't think the principle is any different.

Helen Mulrine
-14th June 2007, 10:20
I personally wasn't making distance an excuse, my only argument is that this comp was made known to the fencing community far too late. When exactly was it announced? I read about it on this forum for the 1st time on this fencing forum 2ndMay? I may well be wrong in this but I personally must be a little distract if I missed it and if so I apologise.

Helen Mulrine
-14th June 2007, 10:34
just re-read this thread and noticed that the comp was 1st mentioned this year 11th April 07 (being penciled in the Scottish Calandar for 9th June)
FAR TOO late to complain about entries
Daughter in season 2006/07 has competed in 27 comps travelling thousands of miles some time for each comp, these things take organisation, if you want the higher ranked fencers they too will have to get organised an now about the championships in good time.

AussieSabreur
-14th June 2007, 10:41
I found out the date & location on April 27th (and immediately posted it here ;) ) As a club secretary I assume I was told as soon as possible.
Which really is very late for anyone who plans ahead, the advance organisation leaves a lot to be desired. The only reason I can go is because I'd already decided not to do Newcastle this year. The main reason I am going is in the hope that a successful comp will lead to better organisation next year.
(I'm such an optimist :rolleyes: )

Gav
-14th June 2007, 10:41
I find this comment a little unfair. My daughter also lives far from the venue, but it absolutely wasn't the question of NOT making an effort to show her face, what Scot would not like a bash at having the title of Scottish Champion....The point is we found out about this comp way far too late to make any arangements and she already had a comp organised in Italy along with a few fencers from EFC. Like many fencers we organise our fencing year usually when all the nominated comps have been announced, although the Scottish championship MIGHT not give much NIF points ,had we known about it , it would definately have been on our list. I'm sure many other Scots scattered around the country who already have a full fencing calandar and have to work out dates and financial costs do the same as us.
Hopefully the Scottish championships will be organised in 2008 but PUBBLISHED at the same time as the rest of the calandar. (At least before Chirstmas)

Tigress is not pointing any fingers but making a very valid general point. It has certainly not helped that the published details were not out sooner. However there are people who are not attending because of... apathy. I would certainly however other priorities take me away. I am also led to believe that there are a few fencers who cannot make it for certain reasons.

Peter Pan
-14th June 2007, 14:18
Scotland has a hand full of good fencers


Of the 33 GB Olympic Pathway fencers, 8 are Scots – rather better than the 10% we’d expect on a pro rata population basis.


and most live in England

Of the 8 Pathway Scots, I believe only 2 were based in England before the pathway required a further 2 (Ed & Liz) to live in London.


From Helen Mulrine My daughter also lives far from the venue, but it absolutely wasn't the question of NOT making an effort to show her face, what Scot would not like a bash at having the title of Scottish Champion....The point is we found out about this comp way far too late to make any arangements and she already had a comp organised in Italy along with a few fencers from EFC.

I’m sorry about this Helen – in SF’s defence, the date of 9th June had been in the calendar until we were informed that the date published in the BF calendar for the Scottish LPJS was wrong, and clashed with the proposed Scottish Championships. We were rather slow though in confirming a new time and venue and I apologise for that.

We very much appreciate that your family and your daughter have always represented and supported Scotland. I was most grateful to your father for coaching my daughter in the breaks of her L16 fight (v Jo Bowyer) at the Inverclyde (I was with some sabre cadets in Somerset at the time). Mind you, the Mulrines got the last laugh as your daughter finished her off ruthlessly in the L8!



How about the "Clarke Trophy" to sum up Scottish Fencing?


I’m not sure if this is intended as a complement! I’ve heard some grey haired, over-weight old guy called Clarke has entered the MS – his “last ever competition” (again!). If he wins (and I’m on pretty safe ground here), at your suggestion it will be re-named “The Clarke Trophy”!

From SF’s point of view – it seems we’re damned if we do put this competition on, and we’re damned if we don’t. If you fancy a shot at being Scottish Champion, come along and enter. Otherwise, stay away and don’t moan!

rory
-14th June 2007, 15:19
From SF’s point of view – it seems we’re damned if we do put this competition on, and we’re damned if we don’t. If you fancy a shot at being Scottish Champion, come along and enter. Otherwise, stay away and don’t moan!

Good post, but I've got to take issue with the last point (quoted above).
Yes, SF are damned if they don't run this competition - and rightly so, because it's the Scottish Championships.

The problem is that when we *do* run it, we run it in a horrible venue (that sports centre is a dump) outside of a major population centre where the students live, inconvenient for public transport, at a date that's changed too late, and without incentivising the top fencers by making it mandatory for team selection.

These are the reasons I'm not travelling 4.5 hours up from Yorkshire to fence - and even if I still lived in Glasgow I'd think twice.

Commander
-14th June 2007, 16:21
Of the 33 GB Olympic Pathway fencers, 8 are Scots – rather better than the 10% we’d expect on a pro rata population basis.
Of the 8 Pathway Scots, I believe only 2 were based in England before the pathway required a further 2 (Ed & Liz) to live in London


I am interested who these Scottish fencers are or is it classified?

I can guess the first 2 you mention, they do not live or train in Scotland, that is easy. The others are more difficult to guess. You mention Liz and Ed, ok, that leaves 4 others. Harry Moncrieff and Keith Cook were probably
training and living in Scotland when the pathway was started. It is the last
2 of the 8 that has got me stuck, please tell.

rory
-14th June 2007, 16:33
Having a good look at the scottish ranking lists will probably assist you in your quest.

I think it's 3 MF, 2 MF, 1 MS, 2 WS though I'm a little out of touch at the moment ;)

Peter Pan
-14th June 2007, 16:46
I am interested who these Scottish fencers are or is it classified?



The list was given to me in confidence - I'm not sure if it is still to be kept confidential but I'm not going to post it. I tried to send you a pm but you can't receive them - please pm me for more info.

HB Pencil
-14th June 2007, 18:13
I think people just need to let this rest and see how the comp goes this year and hopefully in following years the Scottish Champs will continue to run and hopefully more fencers shall make an appearence.

This year has had its problems with dates being changed etc so lets just see how this year goes and hopefully next year shall see the Scottish Champs get back on its feet.

Got to admit im heading along using it for preperation which shall have more fencers and using Doric as prep for the British Champs. + due to illness i havent fenced since Inverclyde so people just need to use it this year for practice or something and just go to enjoy the sport they participate in :D

So ill be seeing all the mens epeeists on saturday :D

Does anyone know if Chris Harding is going? Im determined not to let him hold every scottish open mens epee gold at any one time but so far he is doing pretty well. LOL

Firthy
-14th June 2007, 18:41
Last I heard Chris is not going as he has a music exam so that will leave more chance for the rest of us.

See all you men's epeeists on the saturday.

D'Artignan
-14th June 2007, 21:12
Have to say that I probably would have entered if I didn't have money issues, which lead to time issues (ie having to work stupid amounts of hours just to break even). Bit disappointed that I can't go, but good luck to those who are, and I'll be back to kick some ass next season!:cup:

Commander
-14th June 2007, 21:52
The list was given to me in confidence - I'm not sure if it is still to be kept confidential but I'm not going to post it.

Do not worry PP I will not ask anymore, obviously some secret between Scottish Fencing and London. Nudge nudge say no more. Good luck to it.

Commander

myopic
-15th June 2007, 11:26
From SF’s point of view – it seems we’re damned if we do put this competition on, and we’re damned if we don’t. If you fancy a shot at being Scottish Champion, come along and enter. Otherwise, stay away and don’t moan![/QUOTE]

I don't normally use this forum to sound off, but I must back Rory up in taking exception to this - mostly due to where it comes from. Thinking back a couple of seasons I can't imagine PP taking 'don't moan about SF' very well, given his history on this here forum.

I imagine his point is about negative feedback being detrimental to the event, but I'm afraid this is what a public forum is for, and given PP's track record at geneating negaitive scuttlebut (I'm not saying it was all unjustified) I'm afraid it's a case of live by the sword, die by the sword.

Scottish Fencing's choice of date, venue, their publicity efforts and indeed the meaningfulness of this event are all valid points to be debated here.

'Don't moan' is dictatorial and verging on the hypocritical.

Baldric
-15th June 2007, 11:39
I love watching the scots row, it makes England Fencing look like a model of unity! :)

On a serious note, if you will forgive the intrusion of a sassenach, at least PP backed up his moaning with action, and stepped up to try to do better.

On the wider point of "whats the comp for" we have had the same discussion in England. The prevailing wisdom seems to be that an adult HC championship isn't worth having, for all the reasons that seem to be-devil the Scots.

If you make it mandatory for selection, you risk not being able to pick your strongest team as some top fencers won't come anyway. If you don't make it mandatory, in a crowded calendar many of the top fencers won't come, so the title is devalued.

I'm glad we (EF) are not on the same merry-go-round.

Best of luck with it.

Baldric

Gav
-15th June 2007, 12:04
I love watching the scots row, it makes England Fencing look like a model of unity!

If we're not complaining about you lot we're complaining about each other. We like it that way. People get the wrong idea about us Scots - we just get irritated by everyone, even each other, not just the English.

It's probably got something to do with the amount of rain we have to put up with.

gbm
-15th June 2007, 13:05
It's probably got something to do with the amount of rain we have to put up with.

Edinburgh's got nothing on Cardiff when it comes to rain... :whistle:

Gav
-15th June 2007, 14:05
Edinburgh's got nothing on Cardiff when it comes to rain... :whistle:

And we hate the Welsh for that too.

Although you can keep Cardiff - Cardiff evokes feeling of pity for the welsh.

Peter Pan
-15th June 2007, 14:42
geneating negaitive scuttlebut

:eek: Woaahhh – One of the most colourful (if badly typed) insults I’ve received – well, this week, at least.

OK, I accept that one of the burdens of high office is to forego my right to tell people not to moan – so I unreservedly withdraw that comment. Please moan all you like; please enter the Scottish Championships – even do both! ;)

But please do not accuse me of trying to stifle debate on the topic. :dont: All views offered in the right spirit are welcome and will be listened to, both here and directly.

I have already offered an explanation for the change of date and an apology for the inconvenience; we then took too long to finalise the new date but even then we gave 7 weeks notice. I accept this is not good enough and I apologise for that. We are trying to improve administrative matters generally.

Moving on to the venue question, first, Rory – we have oddly disagreed about the quality of venues in the past; I’m sure there is a degree of subjectivity here – I personally think Grangemouth is one of our middle/better quality venues. The floor is good, the staff are helpful, the changing rooms are clean and there’s a café. There are certainly far worse venues used for some competitions. The main point here though is cost. If we had had a repeat of 2004’s entries we couldn’t even afford the weekend hall hire for Grangemouth (about £1,000) from the entry fees, let alone medals, ref costs and so on. A better quality venue like Fettes would have incurred over a £1,000 loss on the hall hire alone before we’ve paid other costs. As chairman of the company I have a duty not to risk members’ assets. I recognise your argument “invest for a better return” but we decided Grangemouth was the right level to pitch at this time.

I do accept your view about location though; that said, there are very few venues which are easily accessible by public transport and those that are (apart from Inverkeithing!) tend to be at the top of the market. It’s probably had a minimal impact this time as most students are already away and it tends to be students who most depend upon public transport (this does raise the question of timing though!). It is, however, very central for car users. If anyone cares to suggest more suitable venues generally, please let SF know – I think we should review this.

Whilst a couple of year sago I might have considered the “Make the championships count for selection” argument this simply can’t happen in the conditions prevailing leading to 2012. As I said yesterday, we have 8 fencers on the Olympic Pathway and there’s a further 6 in the support group. That’s a fair chunk of a 6 weapon squad who could either be unavailable because of GB competition schedule or simply not allowed to attend by their coach or GB performance manager as happened at this years 5 nations. We have to accept that our top fencers all have to make their own decisions.

I just wish those who can enter this would do so. Even with the paltry entries in 2004, Keith Cook and Anna Bentley made sure they were national champions. We do have one entry making a 700 mile round trip for this one. I spoke about this to Don McKenzie last week and he said he never cared who else entered – he just kept entering to make sure no-one else got their name on the trophy!

Speaking of trophies, they were almost all lost before the 2004 championships and although we’ve located a couple we haven’t got them back – so we’ve bought some modest engraved trophies for the winners as interim prizes – we’ve also managed to persuade GB’s highest qualified FIE ref to attend for at least one of the days.

A final thought – I understand entries could reach about 90. Given almost 15% of our membership is too young to enter, this actually represents nearly 20% of the eligible membership entering- which pro rata on membership makes it bigger than the British Nationals!

doobarz
-15th June 2007, 14:46
Whilst a couple of year sago I might have considered the “Make the championships count for selection” argument this simply can’t happen in the conditions prevailing leading to 2012. As I said yesterday, we have 8 fencers on the Olympic Pathway and there’s a further 6 in the support group. That’s a fair chunk of a 6 weapon squad who could either be unavailable because of GB competition schedule or simply not allowed to attend by their coach or GB performance manager as happened at this years 5 nations. We have to accept that our top fencers all have to make their own decisions.

If your top flight fencers are unavailable for selection for Scotland for the 5 Nations, then could the 'must attend to be selected' rule not make even more sense?

fencingmum
-15th June 2007, 16:51
Re Five Nations selection v. Olympic pathway

If I remember rightly, some of the Olympic pathway fencers were "asked" politely NOT to take part, much to the disappointment of the relevant teams. Most obeyed. Some went anyway and risked it.

The Tigress
-15th June 2007, 16:54
Of the 33 GB Olympic Pathway fencers, 8 are Scots – rather better than the 10% we’d expect on a pro rata population basis.

Of the 8 Pathway Scots, I believe only 2 were based in England before the pathway required a further 2 (Ed & Liz) to live in London.

PP, the fact you boast there are 8 Scottish fencers on the olympic pathway you should be willing and proud to name them. These are our athletes and we are paying for them in one way or other. WHY THE SECRECY?

I can add Anna B. to the names commander suggested. That leaves 1 mystery individual. Why can you not name them?

Has there been some underhand way to get them on the pathway!
This cloak of secrecy makes you think they are not a suitable candidate for the olympic pathway.

You boasted there are 8, you should name all 8. I cannot accept this kind of secrecy from the top man at SF. You may wish to explain on the forum why this fencer cannot be named, a sensible reason I am certain would be acceptable.

The Tigress
-15th June 2007, 16:56
Of the 33 GB Olympic Pathway fencers, 8 are Scots – rather better than the 10% we’d expect on a pro rata population basis.

Of the 8 Pathway Scots, I believe only 2 were based in England before the pathway required a further 2 (Ed & Liz) to live in London.

PP, the fact you boast there are 8 Scottish fencers on the olympic pathway you should be willing and proud to name them. These are our athletes and we are paying for them in one way or other. WHY THE SECRECY?

I can add Anna B. to the names commander suggested. That leaves 1 mystery individual. Why can you not name them?

Has there been some underhand way to get them on the pathway!
This cloak of secrecy makes you think they are not a suitable candidate for the olympic pathway.

You boasted there are 8, you should name all 8. I cannot accept this kind of secrecy from the top man at SF. You may wish to explain on the forum why this fencer cannot be named, a sensible reason would be acceptable.

Hungry Hippo
-15th June 2007, 18:18
At least this problem does not seem to filter down to the youngsters - a recent visit to the LPJS Scotland was well attended by plenty of local fencers.

There were also quite a few fencers from both England and Wales and even a group from Northern Ireland made the trip. One guy made a 980 mile round trip by road from the deep south to see his youngster do well.

Hospitality was great, as mentioned on the LPJS thread, and the venue was prefectly adequate, although admittedly not easy to get to by Public transport. The only problem with the sports hall was the lack of drinking fountains in the place, but otherwise, it did the job well.

A pity the adults can't take a lead from their younger brethren.

Gav
-15th June 2007, 18:27
Tigress you don't allow anyone to contact you so can you contact me and provide an address I can contact you at?

Peter Pan
-15th June 2007, 18:27
PP, the fact you boast there are 8 Scottish fencers on the olympic pathway you should be willing and proud to name them. These are our athletes and we are paying for them in one way or other. WHY THE SECRECY?

I can add Anna B. to the names commander suggested. That leaves 1 mystery individual. Why can you not name them?

Has there been some underhand way to get them on the pathway!
This cloak of secrecy makes you think they are not a suitable candidate for the olympic pathway.

You boasted there are 8, you should name all 8. I cannot accept this kind of secrecy from the top man at SF. You may wish to explain on the forum why this fencer cannot be named, a sensible reason I am certain would be acceptable.

Tigress, I'm sorry I am in a difficult position here - first, I received this information as a board member of BFA, not as Scottish Fencing. I received it from Graham Watts in an email which included this:
"Because I have largely written the whole document myself (with contributions from James and Dan at EIS) and because it has not been seen (in its final form) by other Performance Staff and the NGB Board, I would like to give members a week to see it and comment on it before I finalise it for UK Sport. However, it should not now change!"

It's possible that this is now in the public domain (it would have been sent a week ago) but it was sent it in confidence - I'm not sure if the annex including the names was intended also to be in confidence but I feel I shouldn't make that call. I shall try to find out.

I wish I hadn't mentioned it - there were many other examples of strong representation by Scottish fencers! But this is not some dark secret involving SF. It's just a normal process but BF has to follow agreed procedures with UK Sport who are funding the process, and I am on the periphery of that process. It has nothing to do with SF.

Perhaps you can work it out as you say. I'm sure the full (and current) list will be published soon

Gav
-15th June 2007, 18:29
I received this information as a board member of BFA, not as Scottish Fencing

Are you not a board member because of your connection with SF?

Peter Pan
-15th June 2007, 18:43
Are you not a board member because of your connection with SF?

Yes, but a) this doesn't mean I share BF confidential matters with the board of SF - as a board member (but not Director) I still participate in the business of that company and have to keep it separate from SF business when appropriate, and b) this doesn't mean SF members are privy to everything that I am privy to.

MrsWFFC
-16th June 2007, 18:43
2007 Scottish Champions

Men's Epee Jamie Firth

Men's Sabre Glen Sancroft

Women's Foil Natasha Thomson

Peter Pan
-16th June 2007, 20:13
How about the "Clarke Trophy" to sum up Scottish Fencing.




PETER PAN I’m not sure if this is intended as a complement! I’ve heard some grey haired, over-weight old guy called Clarke has entered the MS – his “last ever competition” (again!). If he wins (and I’m on pretty safe ground here), at your suggestion it will be re-named “The Clarke Trophy”!

I am sorry to report the MS trophy will not be renamed "The Clarke Trophy"

Mum
-16th June 2007, 21:13
Full results from Saturday are available here:-

http://www.scottish-fencing.com/pages/detail.asp?article_id=382


CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE NEW SCOTTISH CHAMPIONS!

Spider5
-17th June 2007, 20:08
2007 Scottish Champions

Men's Epee Jamie Firth

Men's Sabre Glen Sancroft

Women's Foil Natasha Thomson


Well done to all, especially Jamie seeing as he fenced like a dork the week before but managed to save the decent stuff for the competition ;)

Peter Pan
-18th June 2007, 07:44
Sunday was a day for the more "Experienced" fencers

Scottish Champions 2007:

WE Val Cramb
WS Car Stevenson
MF Stan Stoodley

Well done to all!

The Tigress
-18th June 2007, 08:46
Tigress you don't allow anyone to contact you so can you contact me and provide an address I can contact you at?

Sorry Gav, anything that has to be said to me can be said on the forum.

PP arrogantly bragged there are 8 Scottish fencers on the olympic pathway.
Unless he willing to give details he should keep his mouth shut. I hope this has taught him a lesson, he needs one!

He said names were given to him in confidence so why did he mention Ed and Liz if everything is so confidential, naughty naughty PP!

I now know who the mystery individual is. Received email last night with the "CLASSIFIED" information. I do not see what all the fuss is about, except the boy is very young. PP should be proud to name him. What a great president SF has!

Gav
-18th June 2007, 09:24
Sorry Gav, anything that has to be said to me can be said on the forum.

PP arrogantly bragged there are 8 Scottish fencers on the olympic pathway.
Unless he willing to give details he should keep his mouth shut. I hope this has taught him a lesson, he needs one!

He said names were given to him in confidence so why did he mention Ed and Liz if everything is so confidential, naughty naughty PP!

I now know who the mystery individual is. Received email last night with the "CLASSIFIED" information. I do not see what all the fuss is about, except the boy is very young. PP should be proud to name him. What a great president SF has!

Ok. Fair point. And as you have received your classified document there is obviously nothing further to be said.

I am going to stick up for PP on this point and just say that I don't think that PP is part of any grand conspiracy.

coachcarson
-18th June 2007, 11:01
Well done to Laura Hunter-Thomas, so near to doing the treble! Scottish Cadet Champion; Scottish Junior Champion; 2nd Scottish Championships. I don't know if its ever been done before, but best of luck for next year.

MrsWFFC
-18th June 2007, 11:33
Yep, Natasha Thomson currently holds the Scottish U17, U20 and senior ladies foil titles as well as being British U16 foil champion.

Well done to all our Scottish Champions for 2007.

Tubby
-18th June 2007, 12:09
Yep, Natasha Thomson currently holds the Scottish U17, U20 and senior ladies foil titles as well as being British U16 foil champion.And according to my daughter, is an extremely nice girl.

coachcarson
-18th June 2007, 12:41
Wow, impressive stuff. One title is an achievement, two quality, but all three is superstar status.

silvercross
-18th June 2007, 19:17
For the record I put down that I care. I mainly care because there are some competitions that get organised and no-one seems to want to go. It has been suggested to me that SF should hand the trophy to the best performing Scottish fencer of the year [based on rankings]. If no-one is willing to fence for the title then this seems logical however I would rather see people fence for it. There are a few competitions that just do not seem to get off the ground in Scotland these days. Is apathy to blame?.

Hmmmm.... joining the argument late and not being from Scotland (though I will cling to the fact that it was the first place in the UK I lived in when I was a small child and my dad was studying at Glasgow uni as a means to 'honorary' resident of Scotland' myself :D), but just being a die-hard fan of the 'what if?' scenarios...

What if the Scotish National were a qualifier for the British Nationals (from that rationale we'd assume the other home nations would also use their nationals..[England get crackin']), so that only...say, the top eight qualified to the Big event in Sheffield (an equi-distant venue for all)

(Hidding under desk now to avoid the high amount of flak to be thrown my way...)

Adam
-19th June 2007, 10:09
For all the hoohah on the t'internet, Sunday was a great example of tight and aggressive.

Lots of friendly fencers, organisation felt very professional and smiles all around from the attendees. Aye, a good day.

Chuffed that Mr Stan has endowed my pointy stick with his magic, Thanks! :D

cookie
-19th June 2007, 23:31
I would have loved doing the Scottish Championships and I can say the same for Ed but we have been fencing for GB in Cuba and Ven. I had won the Scottish Champs 4 years in a row until they stopped it in 2004 and I still would like to win it more times that Don. I remember a time when you had to be invited to the Scottish Championships and only the top 16 in Scotland where allowed to enter.

Bambi
-19th May 2008, 11:24
Nearly that time of year again so thought it pull this thread back from extinction.

This years scottish champs are on the 15th of june again in the sunny town of Grangemouth.

All the weapons are being done on the Sunday, does this mean SF are expecting a small turn up??

http://www.scottish-fencing.com/pages/detail.asp?article_id=563

So who will be making an apperance?

NLSC Sabreur
-19th May 2008, 14:15
This doesn't appear on the British Fencing website and I don't remember seeing it elsewhere. It may have been the same time last year but unless something is reliably on for many years I just wont remember.

Less than a month is not a great notice period. I had been thinking of a trip to Scotland to see relatives and it would have been nice to do a competion in the same week but not in this time frame with the need to make arrangements.

Perhaps next year there could be more notice?

Spider5
-19th May 2008, 14:26
Thinking about it but depends how many fencing passes the family allows me... Inverclyde, Doric and the Edinburgh LPJS are all around that time.

Bambi
-19th May 2008, 14:40
This doesn't appear on the British Fencing website and I don't remember seeing it elsewhere. It may have been the same time last year but unless something is reliably on for many years I just wont remember.

Less than a month is not a great notice period. I had been thinking of a trip to Scotland to see relatives and it would have been nice to do a competion in the same week but not in this time frame with the need to make arrangements.

Perhaps next year there could be more notice?

I agree, last year i only found out about it a week before the event. TBH i had almost forgotten this event even took place.

Its probably been said somewhere in the 5 pages of posts but you'd think SF Champs would be better advertised.

Will be interesting to see what happens if there is a surge of entries and we all have to share the one hall. Even then it wil be tight, or has the sports centre built a new hall since last year or have SF gained use of another?

Mum
-19th May 2008, 18:35
In response to your question, let me reassure you that SF have hired two halls at Grangemouth, so there will be plenty of pistes and space available for fencing. We hope to have a large entry and to have a very enjoyable day of fencing.

HB Pencil
-19th May 2008, 23:53
Ill be going again :) seems i get very bored very quickly if im not doing something to do with fencing so..........count me in.......better go find the entry form now.......

scottishsabreur
-20th May 2008, 22:02
Ill be going again :) seems i get very bored very quickly if im not doing something to do with fencing so..........count me in.......better go find the entry form now.......

HB...that's cos you are a big fencing geek and will be suffering from withdrawal symptoms by the Scottish Champs! :p ... having said that, I'll be there and I imagine Glenn, Alan, and several others from West Section clubs will be attending, Strathclyde and Glasgow unis have a few enthusiastic beginners.

Though, as has already been said, a bit more warning would probably be useful for the event. I'm just a slacker student so it doesn't matter to me that it's short notice but for those who work shifts etc. it would be nice to have some warning so shift swapping or holidays could be arranged.

Also, just checked the website and the link for the entry form isn't working...so it might be a bit difficult to enter... :s

Adam
-21st May 2008, 08:35
Fencing, what? Aye, I'll be there.

Peter Pan
-22nd May 2008, 06:37
Also, just checked the website and the link for the entry form isn't working...so it might be a bit difficult to enter... :s

Now fixed :)

scottishsabreur
-22nd May 2008, 09:04
Thanks!

scottishsabreur
-3rd June 2008, 11:20
Ok...so I've put in my entry for this comp but I have only heard about 3 other people say they have or will be entering...

Is anyone else planning on going to this comp? Any ideas on what the entry will be like?

And who is taking bets on whether Car will fence to defend her title of Scottish Champ? :p

fencingmum
-9th June 2008, 21:56
Did they happen? And if so, does anyone know the results?

Bambi
-9th June 2008, 22:06
Did they happen? And if so, does anyone know the results?

Not yet, maybe next sunday though!!

fencingmum
-9th June 2008, 22:14
Oops! Thanks, could have sworn they were this weekend.

Peter Pan
-12th June 2008, 08:55
Unfortunately Scottish Fencing has to announce that the three ladies competitions have been cancelled this year due to lack of entrants :( .

The three men's competitions will still take place as scheduled - and additional entries will be welcome on the day

Apologies for any inconvenience caused by cancelling the ladies competitions - it was left until the closing date (last night) but unfortunately the last minute deluge of entries from the women didn't materialise.

scottishsabreur
-13th June 2008, 11:33
Does anyone think it would make a difference if Scottish Fencing went back to having entry for the Scottish Champs by invitation only? I know this was done before my day but just wondering what other people's opinion on this is.

Other suggestions I have heard (all based on the invite only idea) include;

1. Offering a "prize" for the winner or top 4 in each weapon.

2. Turning it in to an Inverclyde type competition with a dinner/buffet dance idea at the end of the comp.

3. Arranging for FIE refs to ref all semi finals and finals.

These suggestions aren't really meant as options but more of a, "what combination do you think would work?" I will admit now that these ideas have all been borrowed or adapted from various sources.

Anyone got any ideas or other suggestions?

cookie
-13th June 2008, 13:38
Im hoping to enter the foil on the day. What was the entery last year?

rory
-13th June 2008, 13:54
This is actually a good plan - but might not be workable (c.f. Royal Armouries competition that used to do this at a BF level, offered decent prizes to invited top-10 fencers, and no-one showed).

Certainly something needs to be done to make this comp attractive again.

Moving it out of that horrible venue in Grangemouth (hard to get to, dark, cold, nasty floor) might be a start.

Peter Pan
-13th June 2008, 14:13
Im hoping to enter the foil on the day. What was the entery last year?

Good Man Cookie! Glad you're sticking to MF here - don't want you upsetting the sabreurs again like in January! :dont:

MF Entry last year was 20 - we're still a few short of that this year but I was recruiting extras last night at EFC who are keen to get their hands on the trophy. So far the "more mature" fencers who dominated last year's championships haven't entered - so please come along and keep the whippersnappers in their place - and bring your pals

Harty
-13th June 2008, 18:56
I'll probably be there too. Will just be nursing a bit of hangover, but that's ok with 2 rounds of poules!

OrchidNoire
-14th June 2008, 09:30
Sad to hear the female side of the competition has been cancelled - as a complete beginner I was considering this to be my first comp ...unless I show up sporting a rather fetching moustache... :whistle:

I think moving it out of Grangemouth altogether would help a lot - it's not exactly the nicest place and it's absolute pain to get to, and as Scottishsabreur mentioned the idea of having something like a dinner and dance would really add something to it.

There's also the problem of how little advertised the comp was - I only found out myself through word of mouth and then rifling through Scottish Fencing - if it had it's own dedicated website like I've seen with the Inverclyde Open, Doric Open, Glasgow Open etc giving people a place to see a proper overview of the comp - where, when, current entries etc - would really help! :)

Helmet
-14th June 2008, 21:05
OrchidNoire, if you are looking to go along to your first comp why not give the Doric a go?? :) there are plenty of other people who would vouch that it's a good wee (but growing each year!!) friendly comp where you are guaranteed a good weekend with plenty of fencing (courtesy of the free secondary comp) and a good night out on the sat night!!!

I can also guarantee no cancellations :p

Harty
-15th June 2008, 17:49
The obvious answer to the problem is to integrate the Scottish Champs with the Scottish Open. In the event that someone from Scotland doesn't win then the highest ranked Scot is simply awarded the title. Of course, the actual winner would still be the Scottish Open champ.

There is precedent for this in other sports. The US Pro Cycling Champs is an open event so if an American doesn't win the actual race, the highest placed American is the US Champ.

Problem solved!

Adam
-15th June 2008, 20:29
[QUOTE=Harty;197889]The obvious answer to the problem is to integrate the Scottish Champs with the Scottish Open. ...QUOTE]

An interesting idea but I must disagree on the principle that Scots ought to be directly responsible for beating up and out other Scots. In an event as you describe, the finishing position of nationals and non-nationals may be reasonably seperated and sorted. If the Scottish Open were used as the medium for establishing the winner of this title it is conceivable that the performance of non-Scots may exclude Scots from being ranked according to their performance relative to other Scots, due to the format of poules and DEs.

A fairer but less meaningful extension to this idea would be to use the national rankings, therefore awarding it to Mr Kruse. This probably misses the point of having championship title.

In my humble opinion, the greatest challenge facing expanding the Scottish Championships (and also the Scottish Novices, et al) is one of marketing. As has been mentioned previously, information and timing are the two greatest issues (venue may be understood here in terms of timing).

I appreciate SF emailed every Scottish Club with a schedule. This is not sufficient. The schedule must be established earlier in the calender, if possible avoiding any clashed with UK Opens/International commitments/Cadet and Junior events; I appreciate this is easier said than done! Fencers need to be informed, then reminded, cajoled, romanced and generally contacted. Once the tournament is done and dusted, the champions ought to be suitably named, shamed and celebrated!

Regarding Data Protection, I think the Scottish Fencing membership application contains a proviso for contact from SF. Next year, once the tournament is up in lights it would be a small but potentially effective exercise to contact -every- eligible Scottish fencer and remind them about this great event. Ask some questions, flatter us with attention, seduce us with information! I appreciate these types of sales calls may be annoying for some, but yes they work. So how about a lovely letter/flyer posted out to all Scottish fencers once the schedule is established, with follow up contact by phone or email?

I was impressed by how seriously some of the (rare on the ground) big guns took the championship, today. Great example to the rest of us. And it was fun!

Bambi
-15th June 2008, 21:07
Fencers need to be informed, then reminded, cajoled, romanced and generally contacted. Once the tournament is done and dusted, the champions ought to be suitably named, shamed and celebrated!



Agreed, and on that note can i remind eveyone about the Doric Open next month?? 5th and 6th of July!!!

As for today had a great time, only wish i had fenced better or had an easier set of poules, they were seriously nasty!! Thanks again to SF for running it.

D'Artignan
-15th June 2008, 22:07
Any news/gossip? And how many of the big guns did actually turn up?

D'Artignan
-15th June 2008, 22:18
Never mind, got the results from the SF website. Almost makes me wish I'd phoned in sick for work.....