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haggis
-26th January 2004, 21:06
Following on from another thread - To try and establish what people would be willing to pay for coaching and how much a coach should earn in a year I'm putting myself up for auction. Hopefully this will allow people to assess a coach, his qualifications and experience and come up with a figure that could reasonably be generated in their own area. A brief description of the item being auctioned follows and all bids will be considered.

Item: fencing coach (primarily foil and epee)
Age: mid 30s
Qualifications: BFA/Hungarian Diploma
Experience: currently coaching individuals 3 nights per week, approx. 2.5 hours per night. Have regularly coached successful high level fencers at cadet, junior and senior level.

For further details or explanation please PM me.

Auction closes 6 p.m. Sunday 1st February.

(Note: not for real, right. ;) )

Gav
-27th January 2004, 05:25
Tuppence!

srb
-27th January 2004, 08:30
One whole 'English' pound (if I've got one spare!).

srb

whizzkid1982
-27th January 2004, 08:31
depends where will you travel to?!?!!?

Robert
-27th January 2004, 15:54
Originally posted by haggis
To try and establish what people would be willing to pay for coaching and how much a coach should earn in a year I'm putting myself up for auction.

I used to pay 20 an hour for ballroom/latin lessons. He had qualifications like yours and was of a reasonable standard in his youth (top-100 in the country sort of thing). A friend though it was a bargain because she paid more for a less experienced tennis coach.

Robert

P.S You're not in my area. If you were and I was serious I wouldn't think twice about paying 15 an hour for three/four hours a week.

Boo Boo
-27th January 2004, 16:13
The going rate in my area appears to be 25 an hour. Some coaches include travel/expenses in that, others don't... Am hoping for no prices in the near future, otherwise ChubbyHubby is going to have to start selling himself on the street to pay for it...

So 25 an hour and the cupboard under the stairs (accomodation).... not sure I could pay the commuting expenses, mind you... :(

Apparently there is no shortage of work in the South... I know someone who has just set themselves up as a "professional" coach (very little in the way of coaching qualifications or competitive fencing experience). He is charging 20 an hour and is working 20 or 30 paid hours a week. Also managed to get council grants to set himself up with equipment, I believe...

Boo

Prometheus
-27th January 2004, 22:45
Originally posted by Boo Boo
Apparently there is no shortage of work in the South... I know someone who has just set themselves up as a "professional" coach (very little in the way of coaching qualifications or competitive fencing experience). He is charging 20 an hour and is working 20 or 30 paid hours a week. Also managed to get council grants to set himself up with equipment, I believe...

Boo

Oh no - it' srb!! :o only joking.....:rolleyes:

Seriously: That's quite a lot of hours though for not much- take out taxes,pension, etc. - should think he'll pay for that in the long term!!

I was paid 20/hour for evening coaching at a local PSchool but I got fed up with it being a baby sitting service - it ain't the money, it's the attitude of the fencers/parents that matters to me.

Admittedly I have a reasonably well paid job (for these parts) that subsidises my complete lack of business acumen :)

Prometheus
-27th January 2004, 22:50
I think 25 minimum per hour in a managed club would be the right offer - open afternoons for kiddies and evenings for seniors. A club manager could organise such a thing. Hang-on, what's a club manager - this sounds too professional for a British club!

srb
-28th January 2004, 08:22
Originally posted by Prometheus
Oh no - it' srb!! :o only joking.....:rolleyes:



No its not srb - no plans for coaching just yet.

However I do know who Boo Boo is talking about, and srb without any experience or qualifications could do a whole lot better.

srb (almost feeling a JohnL moment coming on)

Rdb811
-28th January 2004, 11:35
I saw haggis being stabbed by a man mumbling something in patois in a Stockwell boozer on Saturday.:grin:

haggis
-28th January 2004, 16:44
Rdb811

A relative. A few of them always seem to get it around this time of year.:grin:

So, to date we're looking at an hourly rate ranging from 15 - 25 quid an hour (ignoring Gav's offer of tuppence and srb's of one pound, which I know is earmarked for someone else). Assuming 25 hours a week for 46 weeks of the year that means an income of 17 - 28K per annum (before tax, NI, travel and kit expenses, pensions, etc.). Factor in that a lot of coaching work probably would not be for 46 weeks of the year (schools, universities, etc) and the lack of job security that most full-time coaches face.

Perhaps this explains why I, and plenty of other good coaches, don't really see full-time coaching as a viable career. Certainly coaching, in most other sports that I knowa little about, commands considerably higher fees than fencing. Does the relatively small fencing market mean that coaches have to accept lower fees than a similarly qualified or even less well qualified coach in other sports. Apparently so.

Regards

Hagggiz (sticking with the alternative spelling to maximise my market appeal)

Rdb811
-28th January 2004, 17:34
I'll raise it to the BAF scale rate of 28 (which looking at it is too low, but don't tell my lot). Having a second part time job where you can control the hours would help. Realistically you are looking at 38 weeks a year.

Knock off say 25% to factor in the effects of being self employed, multply by four and take the result round to an estate agents.

haggis
-28th January 2004, 21:32
Originally posted by Rdb811
I'll raise it to the BAF scale rate of 28 (which looking at it is too low, but don't tell my lot). Having a second part time job where you can control the hours would help. Realistically you are looking at 38 weeks a year.

Knock off say 25% to factor in the effects of being self employed, multply by four and take the result round to an estate agents.

The result gets a a largish cardboard box in one of the less salubrious areas of London, a moderate one bedroom flat in Edinburgh, maybe a two bed flat in some parts of Glasgow. As I said, full-time coaching doesn't make financial sense as a career on the basis of what most fencers (cheapskates, I think was word Laurence used) are prepared to pay.

Looking on the bright side (??), Gav offered to give me a hug if I ever feel undervalued:dizzy: :upset:

Gav
-29th January 2004, 05:35
Originally posted by haggis
The result gets a a largish cardboard box in one of the less salubrious areas of London, a moderate one bedroom flat in Edinburgh, maybe a two bed flat in some parts of Glasgow. As I said, full-time coaching doesn't make financial sense as a career on the basis of what most fencers (cheapskates, I think was word Laurence used) are prepared to pay.

Looking on the bright side (??), Gav offered to give me a hug if I ever feel undervalued:dizzy: :upset:

Don't forget about the two cats!

Boo Boo
-29th January 2004, 09:25
Originally posted by haggis
Gav offered to give me a hug if I ever feel undervalued:dizzy: :upset:

How can any of us compete with that? :grin:

I think that quite a few full-time coaches probably survive with the help of larger contracts with schools and maybe other (equipment resale) businesses on the side.

Boo

Prometheus
-29th January 2004, 09:36
So, not likely to be a millionaire from doing coaching then. :(

Haggis, I think there's a lot more work available (at least in my area) than you could possibly have hours available for.

25 hours-ish sounds more like toward the maximum time you could physically work It doesn't sound like a lot but that's 5 hours a day of intense concentration (or perhaps that just me being an inefficient coach not sparing myself), communicating and exertion then include travelling ?

Insipiens
-29th January 2004, 11:56
Originally posted by Prometheus

Admittedly I have a reasonably well paid job (for these parts) that subsidises my complete lack of business acumen :)

I take it that business acumen is not therefore required in your well paid job?
;)

Prometheus
-29th January 2004, 12:38
Depends on whether my Boss is describing me or not ;)

As it happens I'm an ERP Analyst so I told a porky about the business bit :moon: but acumen? I don't own the business :( and it made a loss last year so perhaps I do or I don't.......

oddball
-20th February 2004, 18:57
I know of a old maid, ( in Jersey, not in Guernsey thank God) who would be VERY interested in a coach to battle with of a dark night..........................................




.............best start running Haggis!!