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graham paul
-14th September 2010, 13:47
Currently any fencer who wins a National vets title, open, 40-49, 50-59, 60-69 is banned from fencing in that event at the vets Winton.
The committee claim that this was because Bobby Winton wanted similar restrictions as are in the Open Winton that prevent British team members from competing. This was to allow 'lesser' fencers to compete. I have been informed that this is mistaken and it was the Vets committee that came up with this principle. I believe that this principle is mistaken for a number of reasons-

Every year there have been teams short of members and I have no doubt that next year will be the same, so there is no point in banning some fencers, nobody is being deprived.

There is no ranking system for the Vets. It is clearly nonsense to equate category 1 with category 3. The winner of the over 60s is unlikely to be as strong as the runner up in the 40-59 category.

There is no fair way of ranking the veteran fencers, so any system that tries to do this will be inherently unfair. Bobby winton would never have approved of an unfair system, especially one that increased the shortage of fencers at the competition.

marg
-14th September 2010, 17:14
Currently any fencer who wins a National vets title, open, 40-49, 50-59, 60-69 is banned from fencing in that event at the vets Winton.
The committee claim that this was because Bobby Winton wanted similar restrictions as are in the Open Winton that prevent British team members from competing. This was to allow 'lesser' fencers to compete. I have been informed that this is mistaken and it was the Vets committee that came up with this principle. I believe that this principle is mistaken for a number of reasons-

Every year there have been teams short of members and I have no doubt that next year will be the same, so there is no point in banning some fencers, nobody is being deprived.

There is no ranking system for the Vets. It is clearly nonsense to equate category 1 with category 3. The winner of the over 60s is unlikely to be as strong as the runner up in the 40-59 category.

There is no fair way of ranking the veteran fencers, so any system that tries to do this will be inherently unfair. Bobby winton would never have approved of an unfair system, especially one that increased the shortage of fencers at the competition.

Well said Graham.
Of course a category winner can always fence with a different weapon, but as category winners are the ones selected for world championship teams and the worlds are only three weeks away that is a not a very sensible option.

pinkelephant
-14th September 2010, 19:09
Well said Graham.
Of course a category winner can always fence with a different weapon, but as category winners are the ones selected for world championship teams and the worlds are only three weeks away that is a not a very sensible option.

Since when have Vets been sensible?;)

Linda L
-14th September 2010, 21:30
[QUOTE=graham paul;239023]Currently any fencer who wins a National vets title, open, 40-49, 50-59, 60-69 is banned from fencing in that event at the vets Winton.
The committee claim that this was because Bobby Winton wanted similar restrictions as are in the Open Winton that prevent British team members from competing. This was to allow 'lesser' fencers to compete. I have been informed that this is mistaken and it was the Vets committee that came up with this principle. I believe that this principle is mistaken for a number of reasons-

Hi Graham,
I am sorry if we suggested that Bobby imposed there restrictions on the Vets Winton - he did not. The committee wrote the rules, as I recall Bobby only wanted geographically defined areas that the teams came from- so we can have London as a team even though it is not a region for instance, that was his only wish.
We looked at the original Winton to write the rules, and we may have got this wrong. It is the fencers event and if the wishes of most fencers are that we allow the Vets Winton to be open to all- great !!

We are always looking at the rules and, as main organiser, I have asked all the team captains to comment on any rule changes that they think we should look at.
So we are looking again Graham and your email to me has been sent on to the entire committee for consideration at the next committee meeting.

I hope you enjoyed the weekend regardless !!
PS yes we are also looking at a different hotel !!
Linda

cesh_fencing
-16th September 2010, 22:04
I feel any restrictions on either the Cadet, Senior or Vets Winton Cups make the events pretty meaningless (await for the barrage of complaints)

If the events are to identify the strongest Region for the catagory of fencing, let national champions and internationals compete in their own event and represent their region to identify the strongest team.

If the events are simply social occasions or to identify the region with the best 'not so good' fencers, I find it hard for anyone to justify the expence of these events being run, apart on just a fun experience basis, but is there enough cost/benefit if that is the case.

Fencing is Fun Scotland
-18th September 2010, 21:27
...If the events are simply social occasions or to identify the region with the best 'not so good' fencers, I find it hard for anyone to justify the expence of these events being run, apart on just a fun experience basis, but is there enough cost/benefit if that is the case.

I'd guess the answer to that depends on whether the event is self-financing, or is subsidised.

I'm guessing it's self-financing, so that would demonstrate sufficient cost/benefit, surely?