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coach carson
-21st December 2010, 16:55
A bit late in the day, but looks like Graham Watts is out and a new un-named group is in charge.

munkey
-21st December 2010, 17:15
Yes, its farewell then Graham Watts and we'll have to wait and see what the new structure is and what the new Performance Manager's role involves. Will there be huge change to the personnel (fencers and coaches) involved the WCPP? I doubt it. There are plenty of things I would like to see changed in the World Class program and have been critical of many decisions in the past. Presumably, having front-loaded their funding in the first 2 years of the current Olympic cycle and probably not achieved the targets, there will be less money available ove the next eighteen months so some tough decisions will need to be made on how to make best use of that money to achieve the targeted medal in 2012 - a tall order no matter what had been done over the last few years.Munkey

munkey
-22nd December 2010, 21:01
Unless of course the appointment of a Performance Manager from outside fencing, like our CEO, makes BF a more attractive proposition for UK Sport and with an active Elite Performance Group, we might be able to develop a coherent long-term strategic plan for World Class performance. Maybe more money (better spent) and beyond 2012? Rio for the best of British fencing rather than London. For a sport like fencing which hasn't produced an Olympic medal for half a century, the WCPP probably needs longer than 6 years (2006-2012) to reach it's potential. Perhaps our new Performance Manager will have a lot more than 18 months to make a difference and to move the elite end of the sport forwards beyond the progress made under GW's part-time stewardship. No doubt all will be revealed in time but feeling slightly more optimistic than in my previous post.

Munkey

DSSabre
-7th January 2011, 17:19
Munkey i like your optimism.

Albern
-29th January 2011, 19:43
They all are playing good role on their positions and as DSSabre says i like your optimism.

Thanks
Albern

Harty
-7th February 2011, 11:07
under GW's part-time stewardship.

Munkey

This is the thing that I find most incredible. c40k a year to do a part-time job!! Why did BF allow this to happen?

Anyway, let's move on and look to the future.

Keith.A.Smith
-9th February 2011, 10:48
Harty,

Who are you saying got 40k for working part time. I am intrigued.

Keith

Harty
-14th February 2011, 18:10
It's obvious from the quote, isn't it? Perhaps I got the figure wrong but I got it from a well-placed source. Regardless, I think it is clear that the PM job should be full-time. I hope that lessons (assuming there were some) have been learnt and that our fencers go from strength to strength ahead of 2012 and beyond, especially now with such an excellent sponsor now on board.

Why aren't we allowed to critique BF/UK Sport paid employees in the same way as, say, football managers? Why is everyone always so coy and defensive about everything? More transparency would be welcome when public money is being spent.

Foilling Around
-15th February 2011, 14:11
It's obvious from the quote, isn't it? Perhaps I got the figure wrong but I got it from a well-placed source. Regardless, I think it is clear that the PM job should be full-time. I hope that lessons (assuming there were some) have been learnt and that our fencers go from strength to strength ahead of 2012 and beyond, especially now with such an excellent sponsor now on board.

Why aren't we allowed to critique BF/UK Sport paid employees in the same way as, say, football managers? Why is everyone always so coy and defensive about everything? More transparency would be welcome when public money is being spent.

I remember over 2 years ago there being a lot of talk about the PD job going full-time but, despite all the changes elsewhere, it never happened. It did seem to be a strange post to be part-time. I have no idea about salary I am simply commenting on the commitment to the role which by definition cannot have been total when only part time.

There is a subtle difference between football managers and fencing. First of all some of those defending the organisation are directors or officials. Wouldn't you expect the directors of a football club to defend the manager. I some cases they may have been involved in making decsions which lead to appointments are the direction of policy. So they can be expected to defend those policies.

We are also a small community where everybody knows, or knows of, everybody else. That does make criticism that bit more personal. It is not like Joe Bloggs from Northampton criticising Alex Ferguson when they don't know each other and are never likely to.

That does not mean that should not make constructive criticism, but that we should be aware of the imapct it can have in an enclosed community.

munkey
-15th February 2011, 21:43
I believe GW was employed on a consultancy basis for the last few years. I don't know what a consultant PD can expect to be paid but I would have thought that UKSport have guidelines. I don't see what the big secret is and now I'd like to know.

Regards

Munkey

Ronald Velden
-16th February 2011, 08:42
I would not have thought that there are many experienced Performance Directors with specialist background in fencing, but my
understanding from one source on continent is that such people would be expecting to earn between Euros 9,000-10,000 per
month.

That is not dissimilar to what top ranked coaches are earning in United States.Interestingly National Coaches in Italy are not
paid huge salaries, but they receive a substantial cut of bonuses paid to fencers who win medals at Olympics and World Championships. Since Italians are regular winners I suspect that they are also earning a good living!

I doubt that British Fencing's current budget allows them to pay anything like that figure, which may explain why they are looking for Manager rather than Director.

Keith.A.Smith
-16th February 2011, 11:07
The decision was originally taken to fund fencers and coaches and not have a full time PD as we did not have the funds and still do not from UKS. However, now we will have a full time Manager and it may be that we have to remove some fencers funding for that. I am sure the Board will be updated on what is happening at their next meeting. My only concern earlier was not about transparency and I agree all UKS and BFA funded personnel ought to be appraisede and given targets, but that asserttaiioons as to salary were being mader that were very wild of the true figure and was intrigued as to how these figures had been arrived at. Clearly it may also be that our new sponsor will be supporting fencers.

Clearly Piers is currently managing this situation and will update us at our next meeting.

Hungry Hippo
-17th February 2011, 07:28
......... Wouldn't you expect the directors of a football club to defend the manager ...........

Not sure too many people in Fencing would be assured by this analogy. How often do we hear of football managers recieving the dreaded 'vote of confidence' from their board, usually with inevitable results soon after!

Harty
-22nd February 2011, 21:39
Keith,

Thanks for your posts. I obviously got duff gen, so I apologise for any confusion I may have caused.

However, I do think that, from a members' perspective, things remain a touch opaque and would welcome greater clarity on these issues. I look forward to Piers' updates in due course.

Regards,

Harty