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el-sheepo
-7th February 2004, 13:22
After getting slaughtered alot, hence like a lamb to the slaughter. Deciding to take up refereeing, the question is how? (in foil and epee, sabre is too much off together for my liking :) )

UglyBug
-8th February 2004, 21:05
There is NOT too much together in sabre - just too much that looks like it! Apart from at Slough - Peter Wright invoked the Passivity rule on a couple of girlies. Anyway, the way I see it, to become a ref - invest in some reasonable body armour, develop selective deafness and be authoratative about whatever you say - regardless of what it is! (There was a thread arguing that point elsewhere...)

In all seriousness, the best way is to learn to fence the weapon first so that you understand it - learning the rules from the book is helpful, but not the be-all and end-all. On top of that, watch loads of fencing and practice loads at your club - fencers tend to get a bit irritated if you use opens to learn!

JohnL
-10th February 2004, 21:58
Oh God

Someone else who can't hack it as a fencer, so decides to judge people who can!

There is clearly no point in living any more.

There are already to many people like you in fencing. (And one would count as too many.)

Prometheus
-10th February 2004, 22:11
A bit like being a driving tester who can't drive!

Rdb811
-10th February 2004, 23:52
Originally posted by JohnL


There is clearly no point in living any more.


Yippee !!!;)

el-sheepo
-11th February 2004, 00:02
PPl like me can fence, just that those who referee can't tell the difference between a broken arm attack and straight arm attack!!

so I will break my foil in half and fall upon it! :)

Boo Boo
-11th February 2004, 09:29
Originally posted by el-sheepo
between a broken arm attack and straight arm attack!!

Ouch! Have never tried a broken arm attack myself :grin:

Boo

Prometheus
-11th February 2004, 10:29
that's the attack that happens when you tactically apply 'bent time' isn't it?:rolleyes:

Boo Boo
-11th February 2004, 10:32
Am not sure, I did manage to deliver a "broken rib attack" once (think that was due to "bent time"...), but I try to avoid those these days (especially in training - you end up with few people willing to fence you!)

Boo

Prometheus
-11th February 2004, 10:35
Originally posted by Rdb811
Yippee !!!;)

I hope not as then I would worry that there's not some one more sardonic than me on this forum:(

JohnL - We need you to elucidate these perplexing threads!

Rdb811
-11th February 2004, 11:21
JohnL = Johnny Lydon ?

Prometheus
-11th February 2004, 12:28
Rdb811 - the punk rocker!!

I suspect some colourful embellishments to this statement could be forthcoming from JohnL:rolleyes:

JohnL
-11th February 2004, 13:18
Jonny Lydon never had my style.

haggis
-11th February 2004, 16:45
Originally posted by JohnL
Jonny Lydon never had my style.

Only your use of colourful language.

Barry Paul
-15th February 2004, 15:47
under the LPJS series. We have just started a scheme to train young refs. See http://www.leonpaul.com/lpjs/lpjs_referee.htm for details. Barry Paul

PKT
-21st February 2004, 05:28
Originally posted by JohnL
Oh God

...


Now that's the correct respect feners should give refs...:grin:

PKT
-21st February 2004, 05:40
the first step is obviously do more refing in your club, which is something we force everyone to do, evne the 9-year olds under the ever watchful eyes of senior fencers.

Watch how qualified refs ref and you make the calls as the action is taking place and compare your call against those of the Q. ref. this can be done in tournaments or in the club, or watch videos with the refs showing...This is where the new hand signals really help.

I think in the USFA site, there are study guides for those wanting to become refs...

Once you got more practice under your belt, then you should read the Rule Book. Buy one and keep it religiously updated.

Read the general section, the weapon(s) you're interested in, and the Discipline - card - section. Section O (competition) and M (Material) are useful to know but not 100% necessary to become a ref but helpful.

then you find out where and when you can write exams and do your practical...

Good luck,
PK

gbm
-23rd February 2004, 16:04
On the link given by Barry Paul, the picture at the bottom has the overlaid caption "and remember a referee's decision is final". But I don't think that's actually true?
The referee's decision regarding a 'point of fact' i.e. what he says happened cannot be appealed against, but I believe you can appeal against a referee who is ignorant of a rule or who misapplies a rule or does something not in the rules? Like if you and him both agree that your opponent was advancing with a bent arm, but the referee believes the advance gains your opponent ROW against your in-time stop hit? (Of course, this doesn't just apply to my unnecessarily controversial example, but also to things like the ref giving you a red card for something the penalty for is a yellow)
If your appeal to the DT is not justified, then you get a yellow card, but there is this appeal against a referee incorrectly applying the rules (but not against misinterpreting the fencing phrase).
Am I wrong? I could very well be...
And I wouldn't like to try it...

JohnL
-23rd February 2004, 18:46
Hate to burst the bubble, but it was interesting seeing Barry post the link with the captioned photo saying, "and remember a referee's decision is final."

From my memories, Barry always considered a referee's decision as a starting point for negotiation!!!!!

Barry Paul
-23rd February 2004, 19:21
my brother graham. Any way in the good old days there was no black cards. I only once had a hit given against me when the ref had the score down wrongly and I pointed out the error of his ways. Barry Paul m.D. Leon Paul

JohnL
-23rd February 2004, 21:25
No Barry, no confusion.

Graham never waited for the referee's decision before starting negotiation. :)

tigger
-23rd February 2004, 21:33
Originally posted by JohnL
Oh God... etc


Painful, but I'm afraid broadly true...how many truly good refs (and I don't just mean people who can wing it in the pool round of an open) are there who weren't also either very good fencers, or at least very good coaches? A tiny handful I'd say...

oiuyt
-24th February 2004, 16:29
Pascal Cantin (FIE A-level referee from Canada) was a not particularly good fencer before becoming a referee from what I've heard. He would certainly need to be included in your relatively tiny handful.

-B :)

PKT
-25th February 2004, 21:35
Originally posted by oiuyt
Pascal Cantin (FIE A-level referee from Canada) was a not particularly good fencer before becoming a referee from what I've heard. He would certainly need to be included in your relatively tiny handful.

-B :)


oiuyt ,

Some facts and some opinions.

Pascal, good ref that he is, is 'only' an FIE B in sabre and epee:
http://fencing.ca/referees/refereelist.htm

both Poz & Montano, whose 1/4 final bout Pascal refed, would have disagreed with you.

Watch the video and decide for yourself. I have a video of that bout...Craig's DVD does not include that bout.

The FIE definitely did disagree with you: Pascal failed to earn his FIE A in sabre as a result of his performance in Havana.


PK

Rhubarb
-26th February 2004, 09:52
But he IS going to the Athens Olympics, nominated by the 'americas zone' of the FIE.

PKT
-26th February 2004, 20:21
Originally posted by PKT
oiuyt ,

Some facts and some opinions.

Pascal, good ref that he is, is 'only' an FIE B in sabre and epee:
http://fencing.ca/referees/refereelist.htm

...


PK


Have to correct myself:
looked at the latest FIE ref list -which I couldn't find yesterday because of the new FIE format - Pascal got his B-ranking in all 3 weapons in the 2003-2004 season.
http://www.fie.ch/download/documents/fr/Arbitres-referees-arbitros%20FIE.pdf

that still does not discredit him as a capable ref or bar him to ref in Athens.

PK

Barry Paul
-23rd March 2004, 17:01
In the 70/80. In the top 6/8 in the U.K. ranking. Won the British Foil Team Championships with me, when we beat the Salle Paul A team. (Difficult to believe I was fencing in the B Team). Barry Paul

Marcos
-24th March 2004, 08:27
interesting (and amusing) as all this is, none of it answers the original question...
:beer:

JohnL
-24th March 2004, 12:58
If you check back, the original question was answered in the 3rd post of the thread.

As far as refereeing goes, I hope he has crawled back into the hole he recently emerged from.

Rdb811
-24th March 2004, 22:23
Originally posted by Marcos
interesting (and amusing) as all this is, none of it answers the original question...
:beer:

If you need to ask, you shouldn't be one.