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Jambo
-3rd May 2003, 20:09
I know there's already been a thread on this, but never mind. Got a lame on order from Duellist. As many of you know, with France lames going bust, they're having big probs getting lames in. Planning on cancelling the order and getting one elsewhere.

Where's my best bet for a good light lame? LP? Gofence? Battling?

Any advice appreciated.

Gold
-3rd May 2003, 22:36
recently bought lp light weight pinstripe lame very pleased with it makes huge difference to flexibility and noticeably lighter than normal lame highly recommend it to all sabreurs out there;)

bydande
-3rd May 2003, 22:46
Jambo,
As I understand it - and I might be wrong.
The lightweight lame material was developed by TCA in the US and they hold the US patent for it. LP have since developed lightweight lames using the same material. I was told that TCA actually licence their lightweight material to PBT.

Apart from the fact that the LP lame is shinier than the TCA version I dont think there is much difference in the lightweight material used by TCA, LP and PBT. Which means it probably comes down to cut, price and/or brand loyalty.

The TCA lames from gofence have panels of stretch lame material in the shoulders and flank to give greater freedom (I am not sure if the LP lames have these) but they have american zips in them which is wierd the first time you do it up. The first time I put my lightweight TCA foil lame on I thought I was losing my finger co-ordination but it was just that the zipper was different. Now I dont even notice it. The other difference of course is price - the LP lightweight lame is a lot more expensive than the TCA one from gofence.

Hope this info is useful

Jambo
-4th May 2003, 11:44
Cheers for the advice. I'd preferably like a stylish one :)

Thinking LP or Allstar coloured at the mo. The gofence look quite cool too.

Barry Paul
-4th May 2003, 22:34
Hi,

The leon Paul light weight lame, is made from a lame manufactured for Leon Paul and is not the same as the lame used by TCA.

The lame used by TCA was developed by a USA Company and without consultation TCA took out a UAS Patent, which from my own view is not defendable it was using a known material in a known use.

This lame was used(not licenced they just purchased lame from TCA) by PBT for there own lame jackets but they stopped using it due, as I understand to the growth of fungus in humid conditions. The material is and I have no better term than lacking in life, it's dead.

Battling, their original lame was easily torn, wether this has changed I don't know.

As with much in life you get what you pay for, you must consider, cost, expected life, cut/design, lightness, pre and after sales service (can the zip changed?)

Clearly I might be biased so I suggest you ask some fencers.
As for which is best ask the fencers?

bydande
-5th May 2003, 07:53
I heard a slightly different version of the lightweight lame material story. What I was told was:

TCA were the first company to make jackets from the lightweight material and these were first used in a major competition by the American national team at some sort of World championships in 1995 - junior or Cadet or something, I cant totally remember. The story goes that the Russian team complained about the jackets until they acquired a set for their own team - when of course they withdrew their complaint.

At some stage after this TCA gave LP one of their ultralight lames to test - not sure why they did this. The person who told me the story thought it was because TCA thought LP were considering buying the material from them like PBT were. Anyway, whatever the reason, TCA were later surprised to discover that LP had found somebody to make a version of the lightweight lame material for them. As a result, TCA consider the LP lightweight material to be a copy of their original ultralight lame material.

Now I have not been involved in fencing nearly long enough to know what really happened and now having heard a slightly different story from either side I am not sure what to believe. I suppose I am also not really that bothered who copied who, as long as I get to buy a lightweight lame from somebody. And thats because I think the lightweight lame material is really cool - whoever makes it. I find it more comfortable to wear and the lack of a "baco foil" effect means that I stay cooler.

Barry Paul
-5th May 2003, 08:28
Both accounts are not mutuially exclusive. The important issue is to understand that the two firms use different lightweight lame cloth, which are significantly different in look feel and performance.

As a matter of fact Leon Paul first made 20 years ago a prototype lightweight lame from a cloth made with nonmetallic electrically conductive thread. Looked perfect until sweat was found to ruin the conductivity even quicker than the old lame.

bydande
-5th May 2003, 08:55
Barry,
Can you tell me how the lightweight lame material is made?
You can make it reasonably technical as I have a degree in Physics & Chemistry - from a long time ago though. Somebody else did try to explain the process to me a few weeks ago but as they were passing on 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge it was a bit vague.
Thanks

Barry Paul
-5th May 2003, 15:16
Sorry can't help, all I can tell you is it a very high cost conductive man made fibre wovern with standard fibres into a fabric. The more the conductive fibre the higher the cost.

Jambo
-8th May 2003, 20:39
Well I just ordered an LP lightweight. I'll just shout at Barry on here if it rips :grin:

tigger
-10th May 2003, 11:37
I've had an LP lightweight sabre lame for nearly a year, and train twice a week with it and have used it at about 20 competitions. No probs, no rips. Definitely more comfortable. The only downer is that your name fades off the back really quickly! Don't know if they'll come up with a solution to that.

Barry Paul
-10th May 2003, 14:56
We are working on this problem. We have solved it on foil/epee Jackets. But the lightweight lame just does not want to take the dye. Barry

Hudson
-10th May 2003, 18:57
Is there anyway you can redo names on jackets as mine has faded in places?

Jambo
-10th May 2003, 20:33
For those of us who sadly lack go faster stripes etc that is no real worry!!

Cvillefencer
-31st May 2003, 02:55
Don't know who came first, TCA or LP, but I can say that the Infinity Lame is the lightest I have ever seen made by anyone! It is quickly becoming a favorite here in the states. You can order it through Bladerunners at WWW.wearefencing.com

It really is rather special. My only experiance is with the foil version, but it is the most lightweight, breathable, and spiffy looking (it is a kind of hematite gunmetal grey) Lame I will never own! They do not make custom sizes and I am just to D**n tall to ever have one. If you are of more normal porportions, give it a try.

The price is comparable to the Uhlmann/TCA in USD, so you guys will get it for about 40% off with the strength of the Pound!

I will stick Justin Meehans (He is a Somebody in US epee fencing and coaching *and sells the product so it might not be a review but a sales speach.*) review at the bottom. The price for the Saber is US$210/GBP$128 and for the foil it is US140/GBP$85. I would love to have one, so let me know your thoughts if you pick one up!

Justin Meehan *who sells the product*said of this Lame:
This metallic Fencing Jacket is the lightest, most breathable lame' on the market. Durable and Long-lasting this new lame' is a proven winner. These new lame's have a net lining and screen-like conductive material; this material has been tested by FIE technicians and will be passed at all International events. Some other improvements include a Quick Release Clip, a YKK Sports Zipper, and it is Machine Washable.

This lame is made out of an extremely lightweight and corrosion resistant washable material. The inner linear is a simple mesh resulting in almost no heat being trapped. This material resists oxidation, but lightweight is lightweight. It's like you are wearing no lame at all. If you are fencing a thug, this offers no extra protection. This lame is a favorite for top competition, daily practice and fencers just looking to beat the heat.

Good Luck!

*Stuff in stars * have been added by kenny as part of advertising forum rules.*

Moose
-31st May 2003, 06:06
Not wanting to be annoying, but may I suggest you read this thread (http://fencingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=224) with specific referrence to the no advertisting clause. Just to save a mod coming down on your head. Also its unfair to those from others who have advertised on here and had posts edited, etc.

Sorry to be a pain, and no I'm not a mod, just a board troll :grin:

Cvillefencer
-31st May 2003, 12:28
Um, oops. I guess I am not really to clear on what is advertising and what is "this is the coolest fencing thing ever made!" If you list a link does that make it an advertisment? I am not affiliated with any vendor, I just have very stong opinions after having used/worked on just about everything out there!

How do you draw the line between discussing the prices/coolness of a thing and advertising for it? Or is any post that does not say LP is the coolest count as advertsing? :-)

Thanks for the warning. Sorry if I have offended.

Moose
-31st May 2003, 16:20
You didnt offend, was just trying to save you from a telling off :grin: Generally it can be seen from the tone of your message, to me you're tone had "Advert" written all over it, but then I tend to read into things :)

Again, you didnt cause offence, its just a sore issue on here.

Cvillefencer
-31st May 2003, 16:31
I can see your point, and I guess it was an advert in that I think they are great and was trying to convey that! Thanks for looking out for the new guy!:grin:

Moose
-31st May 2003, 16:33
You're American, so I'll let you off :grin:

Marcos
-18th June 2003, 16:33
I've got LP light-weight lames - one for Foil, and one for Sabre.

For Sabre I find that I last that bit longer during a comp - in the old style lame I found I got very hot and so tired quicker. I can definately say that I would be a place or two lower down the Ireland ranking if I had the old style lame.


Only problem is that when you have a sabre mask and glove, the material doesn't match - lame is gold, mask and top of glove are silver.


Reason for buying the foil one was that as I am the only sabreur in Ireland who has a gold lame (which all the girls love) I thought it fun to get a foil one the same. Don't think it adds too much.

hokers
-19th June 2003, 09:09
Originally posted by Marcos

Reason for buying the foil one was that as I am the only sabreur in Ireland who has a gold lame (which all the girls love)

Sounds like time to ressurect the "Barry White" nickname to me....

:D

kingkenny
-19th June 2003, 09:29
As for adverts I dont mind if its impartial advise but if you are conected then I do.
I saw those lame the other day it needed a name put on it nice but:
this material has been tested by FIE technicians and will be passed at all International events.
That sound like its not FIE so whats the point in spending the money if its not FIE.

As for the review I might add that the guy is not just a coach but sales the product so its less of a reveiw and more of a sales speach.

Moose
-19th June 2003, 09:56
Surely as long as it covers the required area of the body and passes the resistance tests that is enough.

Marcos
-19th June 2003, 10:19
Originally posted by hokers
Sounds like time to ressurect the "Barry White" nickname to me....

:D

almost forgotten - hey, I like the ladies

kingkenny
-19th June 2003, 11:19
Has to have two layers and stuff don't realy know but still needs needs to be passed or it is not fie. Ask someone who knows the rules. :grin: