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jonny
-11th February 2004, 20:36
Ok just making sure I've got my facts straight because I was preaching at the club earlier and want to make sure I wasn't getting it all wrong.

It's hard to describe, but the move where you bring the foil around your back (not the back of the head, round the torso) and turn to hit an opponent thats right infront of you is now illegal, isn't it?

Mantis
-11th February 2004, 21:50
Reversing your shoulders is illegal in foil and so I think the move you described is not possible unless you happen to be very flexible. In epee and sabre you may get away with it, though, as you can probably do it without actually turning your back.

Boo Boo
-11th February 2004, 22:27
Originally posted by Mantis
Reversing your shoulders is illegal in foil and so I think the move you described is not possible unless you happen to be very flexible.

Actually, nolonger true (as of January 2004, as decided at the 2003 FIE Congress - http://www.britishfencing.com/Congress%20Decisions%20Dec%2027.doc):

"The offence ‘inversion of shoulders at foil’ is removed (it is covered by ‘covering’)."

So someone is allowed to reverse their shoulders PROVIDING that they don't cover with their non-sword arm...

Boo

Mantis
-11th February 2004, 22:34
I stand corrected. I always thought it was a silly rule anyway.

So where does the original poster stand? It seems to me that the manoeuvre is therefore legal, provided the fencer does not turn round.

Boo Boo
-11th February 2004, 22:54
Originally posted by Mantis
So where does the original poster stand? It seems to me that the manoeuvre is therefore legal, provided the fencer does not turn round.

I believe that you are right, and that J.Harris is wrong (he would have been right before 1st January!). As far as I can tell, there is nothing illegal about what he describes providing the the fencer doesn't turn their back or cover with their none sword arm.

(am sure that someone, like Ian Hunter or 3CT, will correct me if I am spreading misinformation :) ).

Boo

pinkelephant
-12th February 2004, 07:18
There is also the risk of the blade shorting out the jacket, with older type boxes.

Mantis
-12th February 2004, 08:08
Originally posted by pinkelephant
There is also the risk of the blade shorting out the jacket, with older type boxes.

Ah-ha! Yes, it is illegal to touch an uninsulated part of your sword against your jacket. So it is still possible, but very difficult unless you happen to be Mr Tickle. :grin:

jonny
-12th February 2004, 08:18
Ok, well thanks guys, I'll go back after half term with my head hung in shame :upset:

Australian
-12th February 2004, 08:48
Originally posted by Mantis
Ah-ha! Yes, it is illegal to touch an uninsulated part of your sword against your jacket. So it is still possible, but very difficult unless you happen to be Mr Tickle. :grin:

wouldn't matter on the FIE boxes.... :)

Boo Boo
-12th February 2004, 09:32
Originally posted by J.Harris
Ok, well thanks guys, I'll go back after half term with my head hung in shame :upset:

That's ok, you weren't wrong, merely a tiny bit out of date... ;) (it's pretty difficult to keep up with the updates - unless you know where to look and/or hear about them from people who keep up with the rules and referee a lot...)

By the time half-term is finished, everyone will have forgotten about it anyway... ;)

Boo

Prometheus
-12th February 2004, 09:38
Ok, well thanks guys, I'll go back after half term with my head hung in shame

Do what I do. Blag it....

Just say that the FIE changed the rules after you had made the original statement. Remember as a foilist it's all about guile and sneakiness :rolleyes:

JohnL
-12th February 2004, 15:04
When you hit by putting the foil behind your back, don't look at it shorting out on the jacket (on older boxes) as a risk.

I always thought it was one of the benefits.

oddball
-5th March 2004, 19:22
Yes, but how many people would risk doing it in electric foil?

oddball
-5th March 2004, 19:24
Though it's useful for the irritating "how did that happen" type hit at steam foil if you have a good referee.