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British Fencing
-9th September 2011, 23:13
9th September 2011

As part of the British Fencing “3G” strategy, and specifically the “Gold” aim to develop and train young talent, Alex Newton (British Fencing’s Performance Manager) has invited PHILIP MARSH (the Junior World Champion) to join the British team at the World Championships as an observer.

The objective is to give Philip experience of the atmosphere and special competitor demands of a major championship. He will also be able to give sparring assistance to the epee contender Jon Willis.

For further information, contact Alex Newton, Performance Manager.

aao
-9th September 2011, 23:26
Great that he is going, shame he's not allowed to compete though. Having 'experienced' watching the senior Europeans, and having won two senior opens in a row i can't help but think he would have gained more by actually being able to participate.....

JohnL
-10th September 2011, 01:14
I know I'm dim, but let me get this straight;

We are trying to obtain the "Gold" part of the BF objectives. So;

We select our world junior champion to go to the world senior championships. GREAT. The first bit of forward thinking I've heard so far.

And we're taking him to go and WATCH.

He is good enough to be a warm up partner for Jon Willis, but not good enough to fence in the Championships!! Give me a break. Hell, he's going to be there, in kit, warming up with a competitor. For christ's sake, let the guy fence. I understand the guy's young but even if he looses in the poules, what's the down side? If he's so damn fragile that he's going to be ireperably damaged by having his a$$ handed to him, he clearly isn't the prospect we think he is. He's also the world junior champion, hell, he might even get through the poules. THAT'S CALLED GAINING EXPERIENCE.

Maybe all the coaches and fencers have to be careful what they say around the new all seeing, all knowing performance director, as they're dependent on her for funding and selection in the future, but I sure as hell don't. This is the action of someone who clearly has no knowledge of what it takes to become a top level fencer and learning on the job isn't an option. You're putting the future of international fencing in the hands of a sports bueaurocrat who has no idea of what it takes in this sport.

God help you all.

Yours in total disgust!!!

fenderstrat
-10th September 2011, 08:53
^this^

Highlander
-12th September 2011, 17:15
I think its time to correct the whole policy of trying to avoid sending our best fencers to A grades World and European championships and the HOME Olympic games 2012


How best to acheive this I realy don't know.
One way , would be for noone outside of the top 10 to 20 fencers to pay membership to the BFA unless the BFA is commited to sending full teams of our best fencers,
If you don't fence internationally BFA membership is not required. And if the Board are going to ignor the rank and file members then it really is a waste of money.
The way it should work is:
1. WE all join the BFA,
2. cometitions are run and points are added to the rankings,
3.the rankings then mean something,
4.our best fencers are selected according to rank and a full team is sent to all championships.


Not sending our best fencers is a kick in the teath to anyone who is connect to fencing and this cannot be allowed to carry on any longer.

Any other ideas?
We really must not let this drop!!!!

Mellish
-12th September 2011, 17:33
All future BFA election candidates will have to make a statement on this - and we should all vote accordingly...!

Highlander
-12th September 2011, 17:52
Agreed
Also, I would like to see the results of all VOTES at board level.
Who voted for what etc.
That way we know who to vote off
Everthing should be transparent

Basically most fencers have lost faith in the board and things have to change.

PM1
-12th September 2011, 20:55
No home country membership, no competitive fencing , remember.......for any age.....Only £20 of your fees goes to BF.

WhatEveryoneIsThinking
-12th September 2011, 21:13
Only £20 of your fees goes to BF.

That's £20's too much to these jokers

What a tough position Marsh is now in, you can't fence at the Euro's or Worlds but miss a week of school come and play our game to make us look like we care about epee.

PM1
-12th September 2011, 21:17
My post was made in direct response to the post of Highlander and his suggestion that only the top 10 - 20 fencers pay BF membership, and to remind folk that not all the fee goes to BF. Informative is all.

TBennett
-12th September 2011, 21:25
What a tough position Marsh is now in, you can't fence at the Euro's or Worlds but miss a week of school come and play our game to make us look like we care about epee.

Not entirely sure this is the point of him being sent... At least Jon has a sparring partner for while he is out there and Phil will see epee on a slightly different level to Juniors.

wix
-12th September 2011, 22:25
True...but he has just started AS in a brand new school. Not the best timing for him really ..........

Highlander
-12th September 2011, 22:50
negative rep
"you really think this is going to help in anyway? and just because the people you speak to have 'lost faith' does not mean that most fencers have"
That may or may not be the case mr/mrs invisible!

The people I speak to are competition organisers,coaches,mothers and fathers of fencers,fellow fencers old and young.

and all I'm saying is what they are thinking and saying (off camera so to speak)
so feel free to back up these stupid, disrespectfull and damaging decisions of our board and lets openly debate the issue and maybe, just maybe we may get something out of this debacle. So come on BFA board how about it?
How about having clear concise wording to anything you publish.
How about clear and open selection policy.
How about clear and concise detail of selection voting.

Most people think the BFA has change so much for the better, myself included. Out with all the stuffyness.
But unfortunately that is al undone by a selection policy that is not fit for purpose ( unless you are trying to disenfrachise a generation of fencers.

Close your eyes!!!
Picture a young man fencing Epee at the world junior championships.
can you see him, trying hard to win for Great Britain his coach cheering him on.
He wins, fantastic, the future beckons!
can you still see him, now slapped down as not good enough yet "maybe his win was lucky"
can you still see him, now picture a different senario, picture him as a FOILIST.

If there was no one else picked for mens foil and we had a 16 year old WORLD JUNIOR CHAMPION
I have a feeling he would be fencing and not watching his first world champs.

Sorry to rant and I really have no personal gripe with anyone but this sport is as much mine as anyone elses and things have to change and now!

Jeff

WhatEveryoneIsThinking
-14th September 2011, 10:43
"This post is a joke, so you must be a 'joker' too." to post 9

It's not a joke, I really do feel sorry for Marsh being used this way.

He is not good enough to be on funding, he is not good enough to fence at the Euro's, he is not good enough to fence at the Worlds, but we will take him to watch the worlds instead to show that we care about epee fencing in the UK.

Heaven help him if he dares to says no to the powers that be.

randomsabreur
-14th September 2011, 14:22
See for once I actually agree with the BFA approach - if Philip Marsh were female or in one of the priority weapons it might make more sense for him to be at the World Championships as his FIRST EVER senior international, but at ME, he'd be pitted against men who are larger, stronger and some of whom will have been fencing at senior level for longer than he's been alive.

Add in the fact that as the new Junior World Champion he'd be considered a "threat" and therefore wouldn't be "unexpected" by the fencers, and might be considered a good target to bully as far as the rules (and the referee) allows.

Makes far more sense for his long term development to not be thrown into the shark infested pond that is senior Men's epee at he worlds, but allowed to grow as one of the larger sharks in the smaller pond that is juniors.

If we want to develop fencers for the long term, why rush them into something they haven't been prepared for (if he'd done a couple of senior A-Grades I'd be of a different opinion).

hokers
-14th September 2011, 14:35
Just out of interest, how many other countries are entering juniors in the ME? Regardless of their senior ranking or past experience.

cesh_fencing
-14th September 2011, 17:53
he'd be pitted against men who are larger, stronger .

You obviously have not fenced him then... Built like a brick s*** house... Even though only 17...

aao
-14th September 2011, 18:05
Just out of interest, how many other countries are entering juniors in the ME? Regardless of their senior ranking or past experience.

The Danish definately do, I was talking to their president at the Europeans and he felt it was vital for their younger fencers to gain experience at senior Internationals so that when they became seniors themselves they would be as well prepared as possible to compete (the epeeists who were 16/17 made two L64's I believe from memory). The Turks definately do, and from memory (distant memory) when fencing at senior A-grades I came across fencers from a whole host of countries who were juniors.

hokers
-14th September 2011, 19:25
That was meant to be the cue for someone with access to the entry list to check really...

TBennett
-15th September 2011, 07:09
Is there an entry list out already?? My estimation is that less than 5% of ME entrants will be under 20..

hokers
-15th September 2011, 09:34
Wow. Only 1 of the top 100 in ME have 91 or later birthdays!
9 in MF, 6 in MS.
6 in WS, 13 in WF, 12 in WE.

That is a pretty big surprise, suggests that experience makes a bigger difference in ME maybe?

To be honest, this makes the decision a bit more credible. I'd still say let him have a try as he's there, but perhaps the Worlds is not the *best* place for a first senior international.

Highlander
-15th September 2011, 09:57
only 1!!

How many people have been Mens world Junior Epee champion at 16?

Surley if Philip is a ground breaker, he should be allowed to break further ground and fence in the Worlds.

Cyranna's Father
-15th September 2011, 10:13
only 1!!

How many people have been Mens world Junior Epee champion at 16?

Surley if Philip is a ground breaker, he should be allowed to break further ground and fence in the Worlds.


Does anyone know if he actually wants to?

Red
-15th September 2011, 10:26
If he and Sue wanted him to fence, I'm sure they made their case to the PM.
Besides, he has three more years as a junior and if he wants it, then I'm sure he'll qualify for and fence in the senior worlds in that time.

The Driver
-15th September 2011, 10:42
Wow. Only 1 of the top 100 in ME have 91 or later birthdays!

.... whilst 34 (if I counted correctly) have 1981 or earlier birthdays. This is an interesting demographic in itself and is in no way intended to reflect on PM and whether he should or should not fence at the Worlds.

marg
-15th September 2011, 15:15
I would think his coach, Sue Benney, who knows him inside out would have an opinion as to whether he should be fencing or watching and also have an opinion on whether he is ready for Senior International fencing. I presume and I hope she has been involved every step of the way!

WhatEveryoneIsThinking
-24th September 2011, 06:54
Is he going? The news seems to have gone from the British Fencing website.

rpryer
-24th September 2011, 09:29
Is he going? The news seems to have gone from the British Fencing website.

No it hasn't - http://britishfencing.com/news/latest-news/?n=380