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uk_45
-25th February 2004, 15:21
Now that we can officaly reverse the line of our sholders does any one know any good techniques for dodging matris style or any kind of dodge really!

Prometheus
-25th February 2004, 15:36
a) you can't reverse the line of shoulders because you will be covering target.

b) There is a query with the BFA on the timing and application of the rule change.

Nice try though ;)

uk_45
-25th February 2004, 15:42
How about in sabre and epee the that wouldnt be covering target.

rory
-25th February 2004, 16:15
In epee it's perfectly legal as long as you're fencing safely.

In sabre it's a very stupid thing to do.

Rdb811
-25th February 2004, 22:54
Originally posted by Prometheus
a) you can't reverse the line of shoulders because you will be covering target.



Err you can as I've seen fencingmaster do it.

rory
-26th February 2004, 08:17
Err you can as I've seen fencingmaster do it.


Sorry, Rdb11 - but you're wrong.
New change to the rules - the offence "reversing the line of the shoulders" is removed, and guidance for refs states that anyone reversing the line of the shoulders should be carded for covering.

Rdb811
-26th February 2004, 14:18
Originally posted by rory
guidance for refs states that anyone reversing the line of the shoulders should be carded for covering.

Hadn't seen that bit.

gbm
-5th March 2004, 15:19
What if you're not covering? There doesn't seem to be any difference to before...

Insipiens
-5th March 2004, 15:30
In another thread (I think), Australian suggested that by reversing the shoulders you would inevitably be covering the target.

If your arm is down then obviously you would be covering the body; Australian suggested that if your arm is up you wuld be covering the shoulder. I am not sure I agree with that, but the way the change is announced it certainly suggests that removing the reversal rule would not change things as it was already covered.

However, many fencers hold their back arm near the target in a way that would obstruct it if you were attacking that point; but they are not usually warned unless it actually gets in the way.

On that analogy if I reverse my shoulders and hit while my opponent is say trying to flick to the back I should be allowed my hit because my covering my chest is not interfering with his attempt to hit my target.

fencingmaster
-7th March 2004, 15:33
It is perfectly possiblke to reverse the shoulders and not cover.
At close quarters it can enable a hit whilst remaining protected as the fencers is within the oponents reach and cannot therefore be covering

uk_45
-7th March 2004, 17:29
yeah and this was my point that in sabre and epee you wouldnt be covering any way.

Rdb811
-7th March 2004, 18:30
Err - it's impossible to cover the target in epee.

And the only way to do it at sabre would be to get whacked on the left hand (ouch) or hop down the piste trying to get your knee in the way.

Winwaloe
-12th March 2004, 14:05
"It is perfectly possiblke to reverse the shoulders and not cover.
At close quarters it can enable a hit whilst remaining protected as the fencers is within the oponents reach and cannot therefore be covering


Agreed - - now let's educate a ref or three

ceprab
-16th March 2004, 17:06
Originally posted by Rdb811
Err - it's impossible to cover the target in epee.


That's what the guard on the sword is for.

gbm
-16th March 2004, 20:39
I could be the world's best epeeist, completely unhittable... if I was three inches tall.

Mantis
-16th March 2004, 22:22
Just for the record, it was never illegal to reverse your shoulders in epee or sabre, only foil.

Reversing shoulders, as far as I was aware, meant anything beyond having your chest facing dead straight forward. Therefore it is entirely possible to reverse your shoulders, albeit not to a great degree, without covering especially against someone left handed (or right handed, if you are left handed). It seems to me that the rule change gives the referee more freedom to use common sense rather than being restricted by a fairly arbitrary regulation.