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Clare Halsted
-4th March 2004, 08:57
The Foil Committee are taking up the suggestion to produce a handbook - predominantly for young fencers + parents - to pull together information and useful advice for those setting off along the rather complicated fencing path. Once several sections are ready they will go on the LP and BF sites, to be added to as we go along. (Rather than wait until it's perfect which could be ages!)

Hopefully, once we have done our bit, epee and sabre sections can be added as well.

We are including everything relevant we can think of but if anyone spots omissions or errors I rely on you lot to let me know.
I hope to have the first sections ready by end April.

Clare Halsted

Chair Foil Committee

Australian
-4th March 2004, 12:19
as i've said already to you, if you need a hand with anything, give me a yell

PM1
-4th March 2004, 20:26
Typical !! I hadn't read today's postings but added similar info to Steve Jackson's thread on the GB appendix to the FIE rules....ah me....:rolleyes: Great minds.....

gbm
-5th March 2004, 14:58
Sounds like a tough job - although I think it should probably be required reading for some older fencers as well (myself included!).

I can see more parents coming up and complaining about refereeing decisions once they have half an idea what's going on (as if the foilists complaining was not enough!)

I think it is important to teach younger fencers especially what is correct and what is not (in the FIE sense of action correct or incorrect) early, and explain that when they see older fencers charging down the piste with bent arms, that they are not 'attacking' in the rule sense, but there is a reason WHY they are doing what they are doing (but don't try and do it just yet!).
I live in what could be called the 'edges' of competitive sport, and there's probably not a person in my club who really knows what an attack is, so when a kid goes to a competition and sees an entirely different sort of fencing (i.e. a 'better' sort) then they will get confused.
And tell people what a flick is, so that they don't try simply hitting people with their sword instead of whipping with it (this happened to me before I knew what a flick was either).
Young fencers will copy what they see without understanding.

I only wanted to say a few words, but I seem to have gotten carried away!

Wandering off topic:
Maybe we should have a competition - 'define the attack, using no more than 2000 words'.

gbm
-5th March 2004, 15:02
Originally posted by PM1
Typical !! I hadn't read today's postings but added similar info to Steve Jackson's thread on the GB appendix to the FIE rules....ah me....:rolleyes: Great minds.....

Where is that thread? I can't find it :(

stevejackson
-5th March 2004, 16:43
goodbadandme, don't worry I can't find it myself half the time, I swear it walks around on its own. Offically its under the off piste section.

PM1
-5th March 2004, 19:33
ah, bless the man........don't THINk Gav has moderated you......:confused:

Australian
-7th March 2004, 09:08
Originally posted by goodbadandme
'define the attack, using no more than 2000 words'.

The attack is the initial offensive action made by extending the arm and continuously threatening the opponent’s target, preceding the launching of the lunge or flèche.



Threatening means that the blade cannot be pointed at the ceiling whilst the fencer is running forward. An attack does not have to have a lunge or a fleche, however if it does, then the extension must precede it.



If people understood this then i would have much less angst about the standard of refereeing in this country.

gbm
-7th March 2004, 09:55
If every fencer in the country knew that off by heart it would be a good start. What people probably also need to know is basically when you can stop hit, which I think is:
() before the opponent's attack (before the initial extension)
() one period of fencing time before the final action of a compound attack
() against a bent arm (with a simple attack at least)
() against a riposte which is not immediate, but is delayed
() against a person making continual crossings of the feet
Any others?

(The one thing that really winds me up if people drawing their arm back so that they can bend it forwards and then furiously wiggle it as if they have the attack, when in fact their arm is now more bent than before they started, but if you stop hit into the bent arm the other good fencer who's reffing gives it as a continuous attack.)

I think the call which needs to be heard more is 'Attack incorrect, counter attack good'.

Australian
-7th March 2004, 10:02
Originally posted by goodbadandme
I think the call which needs to be heard more is 'Attack incorrect, counter attack good'.

you obviously haven't seen me referee foil

my preparation hand signal got a fair bit of use with the u/16 boys foil at the home international yesterday...

*sigh*

PM1
-7th March 2004, 20:26
...so what were the results from today, then??????

gbm
-7th March 2004, 21:48
Originally posted by Australian
you obviously haven't seen me referee foil

my preparation hand signal got a fair bit of use with the u/16 boys foil at the home international yesterday...

*sigh*

Good for you. Show those youths what fencing really is. :cool:

Incidentally, what do you mean by 'preparation hand signal'?

Australian
-8th March 2004, 09:27
Originally posted by goodbadandme
Good for you. Show those youths what fencing really is. :cool:

Incidentally, what do you mean by 'preparation hand signal'?

for preparation you should use the signal of "attack incorrectly executed"

this involves the elbow pointing down, and your hand moving from your shoulder to about 45 degrees out, on the side of the fencer that infringed

have a look in the rules if i'm not that clear

Australian
-8th March 2004, 09:28
Originally posted by PM1
...so what were the results from today, then??????

england won everything except one or two

i think final results were

1. England
2. Northern Ireland
3. Scotland
4. Wales

2 and 3 might be mixed up tho...



wales didn't get above 3rd in any weapon

gbm
-8th March 2004, 09:51
That' depressing... (see where I live to see why).
So 'preparation' is your (?) name for 'attack incorrect'. I think I understand now (although I have to admit that I would feel silly waving my arms around at the club, so I just try and stick to the FIE terms!)

Australian
-8th March 2004, 11:06
Originally posted by goodbadandme
That' depressing... (see where I live to see why).
So 'preparation' is your (?) name for 'attack incorrect'. I think I understand now (although I have to admit that I would feel silly waving my arms around at the club, so I just try and stick to the FIE terms!)

well yes, attack into preparation (actually i say: in your preparation, attack) is how i phrase it, as do most other high level referees