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Gildas Braine
-29th February 2012, 01:30
Good luck to all the GBR fencers going to Croatia to compete for Great Britain at the Cadet and Junior European Championships 2012 in Porec, Croatia. I'm flying out tomorrow morning for 10 days of refereeing!
Fencing starts on Thursday, the full timetable can be found here:
http://www.eyoungfencing2012.com/en/programme.aspx
(http://www.eyoungfencing2012.com/en/programme.aspx)I will be giving updates on twitter (#Porec2012 (https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/%23Porec2012)) when possible, you can follow me on @gildasbraine
(http://www.twitter.com/gildasbraine)

tigger
-1st March 2012, 13:06
http://www.mszag.hr/2012EP/EPresults.htm

Results from Porec

Pools
Sleeman 4/2
Ruaux 2/3
Daykin 2/4
Lewis 1/5

Sleeman bye to L32, Ruaux to fence in L64
Daykin and Lewis cut

tigger
-1st March 2012, 13:09
That was WS

MF Pools
Bailey 2/4
Birch 3/2
Deamer 3/3
Feaster 1/5

Feaster cut, others through to L64

Deamer and Bailey out in L64

Birch made L32 but lost out to Denis (FRA)

HelenC
-2nd March 2012, 13:28
From the Cadet Men's Epee:- two L32s (Harrison Nichols, Laurence Peplow) and a L64 (Nicholas Beaumont), Tommy Curran-Jones cut in pools.

No more details I'm afraid.

Helen.

J4G
-2nd March 2012, 13:50
WF Pools

COLLISTER 5/6
KING 3/3
FIHOSY 2/3
KUBLER 2/6

Seeds after pools:

COLLISTER 15
KING 28
FIHOSY 36
KUBLER 50

COLLISTER fences KUBLER in the L64

cesh_fencing
-2nd March 2012, 14:24
From the Cadet Men's Epee:- two L32s (Harrison Nichols, Laurence Peplow) and a L64 (Nicholas Beaumont), Tommy Curran-Jones cut in pools.

No more details I'm afraid.

Helen.

Looks like Harrison had a close one losing 14-13.

Good luck to the Girls in the Epee tomorrow and the other weapons when they are going...

J4G
-2nd March 2012, 14:24
KING (28) beats HENDRICHOVA (37) CZE to make the L32.

COLLISTER (15) beats KUBLER (50) GBR to make the L32.

FIHOSY (36) beats SCHREIBER (29) SWE to make the L32.

KUBLER out in the L64.

J4G
-2nd March 2012, 15:14
ORAVECZ (5) HUN beats KING (28) in the L32.

CIPRESSA (18) ITA beats COLLISTER (15) in the L32.

CALUGAREANU (4) ROU beats FIHOSY (36) in the L32.


COLLISTER out in the L32

KING out in the L32

FIHOSY out in the L32

KUBLER out in the L64

Danum
-2nd March 2012, 15:17
Looks like they all lost 15/8.

cesh_fencing
-3rd March 2012, 10:26
All the girls epeeists into DE, Becs gets last place through!!

cesh_fencing
-3rd March 2012, 11:05
All the girls epeeists into DE, Becs gets last place through!!

Rebecca wins 15-0 to join Frankie and Ellie in L64. Elizabeth out.

HelenC
-3rd March 2012, 11:58
All girls now out in 64

Helen.

Red
-3rd March 2012, 15:30
CMS

Amsalem - cut
Horrix - out 15/7 in L64 to a Romanian
Deary - wins 15/6 in L64 against a Hungarian and out 15/11 to a German
Webb - bye through L64, wins 15/13 against Horrix's Romanian, has a German in the L16 in about 20 minutes' time

Red
-3rd March 2012, 15:50
He appears to be 8/3 down at the break.

Red
-3rd March 2012, 16:00
He's out 15/12.

And that L16 is the best cadet individual result at these championships.

Tubby
-3rd March 2012, 18:01
He's out 15/12.

And that L16 is the best cadet individual result at these championships.If memory serves, that equals the performance in Bourges w.r.t. individuals. MFT was 4th in Bourges.

Ronald Velden
-3rd March 2012, 19:08
Well done JJ a good result.

Interestingly Rinaldi [Italy] only reached last 32 at Camden International and Annic [France] his opponent in final only reached
last 64. Such is the unpredictability of Cadets!

Red
-3rd March 2012, 20:08
Well done JJ a good result.

Interestingly Rinaldi [Italy] only reached last 32 at Camden International and Annic [France] his opponent in final only reached
last 64. Such is the unpredictability of Cadets!

And yet JJ's result in relation to other Brits suggests a certain consistency.
As does the fact that Rinaldi was ranked 4th in Europe (3rd seed at the beginning the competition). Annic was 25th (16th seed). Perhaps Camden wasn't the best demonstration of their abilities.

Of the top 8 seeds, 3 did not make it to the L16. One was Turkish, another Belgian and the third was a Russian.
The Russian and the Turk were both knocked out by the same Russian 15/14 (who was then knocked out 15/14) and the Belgian was eliminated in the poules.

To me, this doesn't look at all surprising or unpredictable.

cesh_fencing
-4th March 2012, 08:47
Slightly freaky draw in the teams.

Three events and in all three GBR vs POL in the first match. Pretty tough draw whatever weapon, even when GBR are the higher seed..

Ronald Velden
-4th March 2012, 10:19
Red

Cadets particularly in boys sabre this year are unpredictable.

The Italian team selected for Camden based on their rankings at that time was 1. Bonsanto 2. Lecci and 3 Castello with
Rinaldi in 7th place.Lecci had to drop out through illness but won Pisa two weeks later. The current top ranked Cadet is now
De Meo who like Lecci did not compete in Europeans.

Six of the fencers who reached Final Tableau in Europeans also competed in Camden, but only Bonsanto made final Tableau
at Camden.

European Rankings are not neccessarily a barometer of best fencers. Yildirim competed in a lot of tournaments and accumulated the nucleus of his points in the weakest events such as Sofia and Reykjavic.

Two of the other Champions in Mens Foil and Womens Sabre competed virtually not at all on Cadet Circuit.

Red
-4th March 2012, 13:20
Red

Cadets particularly in boys sabre this year are unpredictable.

The Italian team selected for Camden based on their rankings at that time was 1. Bonsanto 2. Lecci and 3 Castello with
Rinaldi in 7th place.Lecci had to drop out through illness but won Pisa two weeks later. The current top ranked Cadet is now
De Meo who like Lecci did not compete in Europeans.

Six of the fencers who reached Final Tableau in Europeans also competed in Camden, but only Bonsanto made final Tableau
at Camden.

European Rankings are not neccessarily a barometer of best fencers. Yildirim competed in a lot of tournaments and accumulated the nucleus of his points in the weakest events such as Sofia and Reykjavic.

Two of the other Champions in Mens Foil and Womens Sabre competed virtually not at all on Cadet Circuit.

If you discount most of the obvious tourists (Turkey, Belgium), then the European rankings aren't a bad indication of form. It's certainly better than using their results at one event on the edge of Europe with its own unique challenges.

The fencers that performed ahead of their ranking in CMS were Hungarian and French. What are they doing that the Russians and Italians aren't? What are these four nations (and the Germans) doing that we can use?

Romania and Belarus are strong senior MS nations. Neither nation had anybody in the top 16. Is this normal for them? Is this a routine part of how they win senior world and Olympic medals? If so, what can we learn from them?

Red
-4th March 2012, 13:30
Briefly back to today...

MET - out 41/37 to POL in L16.
MFT - out 45/40 to POL in L16.
WST - out 45/27 to POL in L16. Lost to Belgium in 9th place fight. 10th/10

Matches for places don't appear to be on the results page.

But according to BF twitter...

WST - lost 9th place match 45/44 to BEL
MFT - beat Denmark in 9-16, beat Serbia in 9-12
MET - lost to Belgium in 9-16

Ronald Velden
-4th March 2012, 14:02
Red

I think that the British results in Cadet and Junior Sabre have not been bad and a considerable improvement on recent years.

Two juniors have won World Cup Medals and also reached Finals and one Cadet has reached 2 Final Tableau and 2 last 16. The Cadet Boys have also been very consistent in team events finishing second once and fourth on two other occasions. That included a narrow defeat by one point to Germany and a victory over the French first team, which included yesterday's silver medallist.

Frankly I think that we are moving in the right direction, because our fencers are now more competitive, but perhaps we need more clubs in system like Camden and Truro. Other countries have more depth.

Red
-4th March 2012, 16:43
Red

I think that the British results in Cadet and Junior Sabre have not been bad and a considerable improvement on recent years.

Two juniors have won World Cup Medals and also reached Finals and one Cadet has reached 2 Final Tableau and 2 last 16. The Cadet Boys have also been very consistent in team events finishing second once and fourth on two other occasions. That included a narrow defeat by one point to Germany and a victory over the French first team, which included yesterday's silver medallist.

Frankly I think that we are moving in the right direction, because our fencers are now more competitive, but perhaps we need more clubs in system like Camden and Truro. Other countries have more depth.

Point by point and sticking with MS only...

While the results aren't all bad, they're far from setting the world on fire.
This year we've had one cadet and one junior making it to the L8 of nominated foreigns.

While it's been a good year for JJ, two or more made it to that stage or better in 09/10, 06/07, 04/05, 03/04 and 01/02.
Curtis' results are among the best of the last six years, but like the other years where somebody has made to the L8 or better he's been the only one. Those other years were 10/11, 07/08 and 06/07.

When we have 2 or more making it to the L8 in junior world cups or the same in cadet foreigns, then I'll agree with you that there has been 'considerable' improvement.

On a similar vein, we've not had more than one fencer progress beyond the L64 at the cadet worlds since 1998. At the junior worlds, this hasn't been done since 2004. Two L32s or better at either would be a considerable improvement.

But if none of that success translates to Olympic or senior Worlds medals then it's all a bit pointless. Fun, but ultimately pointless.

Hungary has a small number of clubs that produce good sabre fencers in Budapest and one in Godollo. That's it. All of their good sabre fencers are from one relatively small city. Having more clubs 'like Camden and Truro' only solves the problem if we have a means of training lots of high quality coaches to work in them. The Hungarians have that which is how they manage to do what they do with a smallish number of clubs.

I still want to know how Russia, France, Belarus, Romania, Hungary and Italy work in more detail than I do now. If any further insight into how they work can help me (or any other British coach) to train better fencers, then it's worth it.

Ronald Velden
-4th March 2012, 19:04
I can only speak for Camden. We have a team of good coaches and the training has been upgraded this year.

We have also a very good group of Junior and Cadet fencers at club and if you look at last three years three fencers [2 boys and 1 girl have won International Cadet or World Cup Medals. Three other fencers have made either a last 8 or last 16. Also
last year three fencers at our club made last 16 results in World or European Championships.

For one club that compares very favourably with any other club in Europe notwithstanding that we do not have the dedicated facilities on offer elsewhere. Five or six years ago Britain would have struggled to get more than one or two fencers in a last
64 in an international event and certainly not from a single club.

Similarly Truro have also made considerable progress and now have a very good coaching team led by Jon Salfield and are able to offer excellent training.

I must point out also that three of the four fencers including JJ who competed yesterday will still be Cadets next year so that
there is still room for them to improve at this level.

As I pointed out previously the priority for the sport in this country should be to deliver a quality club system to create a larger pool of talent plus of course training and recruitment of better coaches.

Red
-4th March 2012, 20:02
I'm well aware of Camden's achievements and you should be applauded for them. But while that is fantastic for a club, in general British results in men's sabre haven't progressed much.

I agree with you on almost everything, however the facts aren't with you when you say 'Five or six years ago Britain would have struggled to get more than one or two fencers in a last 64 in an international event and certainly not from a single club.'

Five years ago, six junior MS fencers made at least one L64. Three of those were from the same club (Brentwood). The number that made a L64 or better in each junior world cup event were 5, 3, 3, 5 respectively.
Six years ago, six also managed the same with four from the same club (Brentwood). For each event 2, 2, 2, 3, 4 got L64s or better.
Seven years ago, five did the same with three from the same club (Brentwood). 2, 1, 1, 3.
Eight years ago (2004/05), eight managed it with two clubs with two fencers each (Brentwood, Shakespeare's). 6, 3, 3, 6.

HelenC
-5th March 2012, 09:58
Congratulations to the Foil girls, won their L16 fight 45-33 to be the first cadet team to make the L8.

Helen.

Shaka
-5th March 2012, 10:18
Congratulations to the Foil girls, won their L16 fight 45-33 to be the first cadet team to make the L8.

Helen.


Well Done Girls!!!!!!!

HelenC
-5th March 2012, 10:19
Girls epee (seeded 13) out to France (4) in the L16, should have Sweden next.

Helen.

Baldric
-5th March 2012, 11:02
Well Done Girls!!!!!!!

What he said!

HelenC
-5th March 2012, 12:27
Epee girls bt Sweden 45-36 to move into 9-12 against Finland

Helen

Red
-6th March 2012, 20:24
Summary of yesterday...
CMST lost 45/40 to ROU in L16, beat ESP 45/39 then lost 45/43 to BLR to finish 10th/13
CWET lost 45/36 to FRA in L16, beat SWE 45/36 then lost 45/41 to FIN and 45/39 to BLR to finish 11th/18
CWFT beat BLR 45/33 in L16 then lost 45/30 to RUS in the L8. Then lost 44/36 and 43/36 to GER and HUN respectively to finish 8th/14

WF seems to be the strongest cadet weapon with 3 in L32 of individual and L8 in the team.
MS has the best individual with a L16.

Is this good enough? Given that BF thinks cadet is about development, do these results matter?

Today...
Tofalides, Archer and Rattan out in L32 of JMF. Hendrie out in L64.
The same fencer took out both Hendrie and Tofalides.

Itzkowitz out in L32 of JWS.

So far in the sabre competitions, the same 7 nations (RUS, ITA, HUN, FRA, GER, UKR, POL) appear to be way ahead of everybody else. Those 7 were the top 7 in each of the team competitions.
JJ and a Turkish cadet girl were the only sabre fencers from a nation other than those 7 to appear in the top 16 of the CWS, CMS or JWS competitions. Of that group Poland had the fewest fencers in the top 16, but it was still double the total of all other nations combined.

Perhaps it will be very difficult to join that group...

jmayle
-7th March 2012, 10:33
CWET lost 45/36 to FRA in L16, beat SWE 45/36 then lost 45/41 to FIN and 45/39 to BLR to finish 11th/18

Is this good enough? Given that BF thinks cadet is about development, do these results matter?

Having just returned from Porec following the CWE, I think the results need to be viewed with certain things in mind. The FRA match was much closer than it looked. The FIN match should not have been lost, both of these situations were not aided by decisions made by the management. By the time the girls got to BLR they were quite dispondent and again the BLR fencer who had won Heidenheim was possibly underestimated.

I will be starting a thread regarding the need for a dedicated Epee National Coach and its merit in the "development" of our Cadets and Juniors to give them the best chance when abroad. I think this, included with the National Academy, which I believe will become the chosen pathway for selection in the first place, will give these young people better preparation for the considerably higher standards they meet overseas. Masses of work backlog to sort out first mind.

In Porec, the vast majority of Nations was accompanied by a salaried National Coach with excellent knowledge, not only of his own fencers but with knowledge of the strengths, weaknesses and tactics of those they met.

As I said to Alan Rapley on leaving, non of this is rocket science, he only need look to EU nations to see what they are doing that we clearly are not.

Well done girls, on a hard job, made harder that was very well done and a Huge Thank You to the Finnish coach who picked up the demoralised girls and treated them to lovely large ice creams to lift their spirits.

Coupe du Nord
-7th March 2012, 11:01
both of these situations were not aided by decisions made by the management


Can you explain this a little more please June.

Thank you.

HelenC
-7th March 2012, 11:05
As a parent involved in this team, I don't intend commenting on the management or performance of the team on a public forum, although I will be doing so privately through the appropriate channels.

However, I fully support the need for a dedicated epee national coach to support the cadet and junior teams. Asking a coach to step in and manage a team and make crucial decisions about team selection, running order and substitutions without knowing the fencers involved, their aptitudes, personalities, tactical strengths and attitude to team fencing is asking for trouble. (although you would think that not a great deal of knowledge and experience would be needed to avoid substituting in a fencer for a last fight against an opponent who beat them 15-3 in the individual competition)

There also seems to be a tendency amongst ďad hocĒ squad coaches, who havenít had an opportunity to build up a relationship with their team, to focus on tactics designed to minimise losses rather than strive for success, to ďhold the scoreĒ and fence passively even when itís clear that if the match is to be won someone needs to go out on a limb and actually try to win it. This isnít unique to cadets, but was evident at the senior Europeans in Sheffield. It almost seems like holding on for a narrow loss is somehow seen as preferable to striking out for a win and maybe failing by a bigger margin. Hopefully allowing a coach time to actually build up a relationship with a squad, and learn how they can best be used in a match, will produce a better situation than one where a fencer was actively discouraged from scoring hits in a single bout because the match plan was to hold the score steady, despite an 11 hit deficit.

(The fencer in that situation failed the team, and ignored the match plan, in scoring 14 hits in the 3m instead.)

Right, Iím drifting into commenting on particulars so Iíll stop now.

Helen.

jmayle
-7th March 2012, 11:32
both of these situations were not aided by decisions made by the management


Can you explain this a little more please June.

Thank you.

Hi, you have read HelenC's comments above, which I fully endorse. It would be improper for me to comment more fully on the details of this matter but as with Helen, I am considering a formal direct approach regarding the situation.

This situation is now in the past, lessons must be learned for the future, more specifically before Moscow to avoid any similar issues arising there, where our young team could well be more vulnerable as on the whole they are without the support they had in Porec.

cesh_fencing
-7th March 2012, 11:51
Hi, you have read HelenC's comments above, which I fully endorse. It would be improper for me to comment more fully on the details of this matter but as with Helen, I am considering a formal direct approach regarding the situation.

This situation is now in the past, lessons must be learned for the future, more specifically before Moscow to avoid any similar issues arising there, where our young team could well be more vulnerable as on the whole they are without the support they had in Porec.

Similar strange decisions seemed to have occurred in the Boys Epee, with our top 2 in the individual being subbed in and out in the important first 2 matches (and not being the 9th fight match) rather than being the core team members with those less successful in the individual being the 3rd fencer.

I agree that a coach going with the squad should know all the fencers, have been with the fencers at events and seen them fencing a many events in the past (ideally for several years to know their ability to take pressure). Tactical decisions at this level is key for teams and I think having a experienced ex-international or such with tactical knowledge of team events is more impotant than a coach without much experience in these things.

Unfortunately a paid coach is key, as all the successful coaches in the UK are generally going to lose income from coaching at these events and to attend them need to be re-numerated at a sensible rate.

I had hoped to go to Porec as an individual coach as I had 2 boys and 1 girl from R&REC fencing as well as knowing pretty much all the other fencers well from the EEJS set-up, however as well as the expence of travel etc (£500+), I would have lost out on approximately £500 of income to attend so could not justify the cost. This is a big issue for those of us who are 'self-employed' and cannot simply take leave/holiday from work.

Hansei
-7th March 2012, 13:01
Hopefully allowing a coach time to actually build up a relationship with a squad, and learn how they can best be used in a match, will produce a better situation

This is a totally rational argument and one would expect it to be at the heart of BF's policy for selecting coaches for major championships. However BF have chosen not to send Peter Barrett, Junior Men's Epee Coach, to the Junior World Championships, despite his considerable experience of coaching our Junior Men's Epee Team on the international stage, his knowledge of the fencers involved and the fact that our Junior Men's Epee Team could be a serious medal prospect. Further, Peter has actually coached this group in an international team event this season in Lignano, where they achieved some very promising results.

If decisions like these continue to be made, the same situations will continue and our teams will not reach their potential. I don't want to discourage you from writing to BF, but I fear it may be an uphill struggle.

HelenC
-7th March 2012, 13:17
However BF have chosen not to send Peter Barrett, Junior Men's Epee Coach, to the Junior World Championships

That's sad - our Junior men's epee team have a serious chance at a medal. If they won't send a coach with them, it does make one wonder who they will send a coach for.

Helen.

ED_R
-7th March 2012, 13:18
I wasnt at the Europeans, but would like to suggest a slightly different but not opposing view.

We have always found the British Fencing coaches to be excellent in the normal European Cadet Circuit, and it has seemed to me that what stopped them being really effective was that they had to spread themselves so thin. Supervising 12 fencers is just not possible however good a coach you might be.

When we started out in cadet fencing I felt the best thing was to stand right back and let BF get on with it. I felt slightly critical of parents who went along. One of them implied to me in a private email that they knew I thought them "over-controlling" by accompanying their fencer but they said I would come to the view that the fencers needed the support that they get at domestic events - and when they do, they do better.

They were right.

Albeit based on the experience of just one season, we have found that having your own personal coach along might be a luxury, but it really improves results. I am slowly coming to the view that changing the support that a fencer gets completely between domestic events and the international ones has a bad effect on the international results.

I would be interested if someone was able to do a systematic comparison of results from accompanied fencers to unaccompanied. Having a coach who is very well known to a fencer but not their usual may be better that having an unknown coach. But the best of all could well be to recreate the support that a fencer is used to.

HelenC
-7th March 2012, 15:02
And on a more cheerful note......Leah King (WF) is into the L16, taking out the No. 9 seed from Italy in the L32.

Helen.

jmayle
-7th March 2012, 15:40
[QUOTE=cesh_fencing;260105]Similar strange decisions seemed to have occurred in the Boys Epee, with our top 2 in the individual being subbed in and out in the important first 2 matches (and not being the 9th fight match) rather than being the core team members with those less successful in the individual being the 3rd fencer.

I agree that a coach going with the squad should know all the fencers, have been with the fencers at events and seen them fencing a many events in the past (ideally for several years to know their ability to take pressure). Tactical decisions at this level is key for teams and I think having a experienced ex-international or such with tactical knowledge of team events is more impotant than a coach without much experience in these things.

Unfortunately a paid coach is key, as all the successful coaches in the UK are generally going to lose income from coaching at these events and to attend them need to be re-numerated at a sensible rate.

I had hoped to go to Porec as an individual coach as I had 2 boys and 1 girl from R&REC fencing as well as knowing pretty much all the other fencers well from the EEJS set-up, however as well as the expence of travel etc (£500+), I would have lost out on approximately £500 of income to attend so could not justify the cost. This is a big issue for those of us who are 'self-employed' and cannot simply take leave/holiday from work.[/QUOTE

I suspect the same problems ensued, I know there were some other issues with the boys but cannot speak first hand as we were not in the building, I do believe however from someone very sensible who was that the boys were perhaps not in the best frame of mind come the start of the teams.

There were good tactical coaches there, accompanying the girls and the boys but they were told not to interfere with the decisions of the epee coach elected into the trip. It is a shame, I am confident that had the girls just got on with it, with the experience of the two older ones in team fencing, they would have acheived a L8 possibly and certainly, in my opinion 9th or 10th if the worst had happened with France.

They work so hard to these majors, only to have the experience marred by the inexperience and ego's of others.

jmayle
-7th March 2012, 22:59
And on a more cheerful note......Leah King (WF) is into the L16, taking out the No. 9 seed from Italy in the L32.

Helen.

Well done to Leah, does anyone know what the final result was?

Foilling Around
-7th March 2012, 23:23
And on a more cheerful note......Leah King (WF) is into the L16, taking out the No. 9 seed from Italy in the L32.

Helen.

Taking out Calissi was no mean feat, she is number 2 in the world and has won 2 JWCs this season.

Volpi beat Mancini in the final so Italy still continues the women's foil production line.

cesh_fencing
-8th March 2012, 00:15
Well done to Leah, does anyone know what the final result was?

Ended up 15th.

Other GB result Georgia Hannay 40th, entry of 52.

Ronald Velden
-8th March 2012, 14:11
Poole Results from Junior Mens Sabre

Curtis Miller W4 L1 Seeded 15th
Soji Aiyenuro W4 L2 Seeded 23rd
Harry Boteler W2 L3 Seeded 41st
Kirk Slankard W1 L4 Seeded 54th

Messrs Miller,Aiyenuro and Boteler qualified for DE, Slankard eliminated.

Ronald Velden
-8th March 2012, 15:38
Junior Mens Sabre

All are now out.

Boteler loses to Lehnert in L64
Aiyenuro beat Van Eckhern in L64 and then loses to Laurence [Fra] in last 32
Miller loses to Buisson [Fra] in last 32

J4G
-9th March 2012, 10:02
JMF into last 8 with a 45/17 win over Denmark. They now fence Germany for a place in the semis.

J4G
-9th March 2012, 10:43
JMF lose 45/39 to Germany in the last 8.

Jacdaw
-9th March 2012, 17:35
Not sure if this has been linked or not: http://www.mszag.hr/2012EP/EPresults.htm

JohnL
-9th March 2012, 19:36
From British Fencing website

"JME Jack Hudson Philip Marsh James Frewin Reserve Chris Hay and 4th for team"

According to the website results, only Chris Hay showed up.

Did we miss something in the translation?

jmayle
-9th March 2012, 19:54
From British Fencing website

"JME Jack Hudson Philip Marsh James Frewin Reserve Chris Hay and 4th for team"

According to the website results, only Chris Hay showed up.

Did we miss something in the translation?


Only Chris Hay was there, don't think the others intended going. I think the team line up as above is the one destined to go to the Worlds in Moscow.

Danum
-9th March 2012, 22:22
June is right. The JME team is for the Worlds.

JohnL
-9th March 2012, 23:05
June is right. The JME team is for the Worlds.

And no-one thought the Europeans might be good preparation?

TomA
-10th March 2012, 02:24
And no-one thought the Europeans might be good preparation?Of the four fencers in the team for the worlds, James didn't achieve the selection criteria in time, Jack has exams and Philip is focusing on senior competitions. Chris was the only one qualified and available.

Whether there should have been qualification criteria for this competition is a separate question...

Red
-10th March 2012, 07:14
And no-one thought the Europeans might be good preparation?

The fencers that qualified for the Europeans (except Hay) chose not to go.
If they had chosen otherwise or more fencers had qualified, then there would have been a team.

The qualifying standard was 1 L32 or 2 L64s.

Tubby
-10th March 2012, 10:22
And no-one thought the Europeans might be good preparation?Marsh fenced in Tallin which was only a few days after the Euros.

Gildas Braine
-11th March 2012, 10:13
A big shout out to Harry Boteler of Truro, Curtis Miller and Soji Aiyenuro of Camden, and Kirk Slankard of City for their excellent day yesterday coming 6th in the men's sabre team at the junior Europeans. A superb team performance that saw them beat Poland, lose narrowly to France, take out Italy, and lose to Turkey for 5th. A super team performance where all 4 played their part, and made me very proud to be British. Congratulations.

Shaka
-11th March 2012, 11:27
A big shout out to Harry Boteler of Truro, Curtis Miller and Soji Aiyenuro of Camden, and Kirk Slankard of City for their excellent day yesterday coming 6th in the men's sabre team at the junior Europeans. A superb team performance that saw them beat Poland, lose narrowly to France, take out Italy, and lose to Turkey for 5th. A super team performance where all 4 played their part, and made me very proud to be British. Congratulations.

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hokers
-11th March 2012, 12:32
Was very surprised to see this not get more attention yesterday, this sounds like a huge result to me, taking out big fencing nations and very narrowly missing out on a medal (45-39). Congratulations to the guys, this is great work.

Ronald Velden
-11th March 2012, 13:21
Patricia Aiyenuro spoke to me last night and said that despite the score the match against France could have gone either way.
We were leading at one point.

The match against Italy was a stunning result when you look at the Italian team which included Scepi,Curatoli and Riccardi.
Both Scepi and Curatoli are ranked in top 10 in World at U20 level and they have won World Championship medals.