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Shaka
-28th March 2012, 12:38
Good Luck to the GBR Cadets & Juniors flying out to Russia!!!!!

The first set left this morning - CWF and CMS, and will start the tornament off fencing on Sat 31st Mar.

The website for full details and results can be found at:

http://www.juniorfencing2012.ru/


:thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up

Danum
-28th March 2012, 20:29
All safely arrived. Huge hotel. Very cold and snowing. Must go and pack. Up at 05.00.

Shaka
-30th March 2012, 17:09
Poules are up on the website for tomorrows' CWF & CMS.

Go GB!!!!!!!!!!

asaba
-30th March 2012, 22:45
All the cadets have now arrived safely in Moscow.

Fencing begins tomorrow with Cadet Men Sabre and Cadet Women Foil.

Good luck to the team.

asaba
-31st March 2012, 06:42
JJ Webb 5V 0D
Rubin Amsalem 4V 1D
Jack Horrix 2V 3D

After the poules ranking[Jonathan Webb 6th and jack 48 and rubin 16
JJ on at 11 30 the others shortly][/B]

Mr Wise Guy
-31st March 2012, 07:00
Jack beats 17th seed in 64 15-13 after being 8-4 down at break and rubin wins 15-12 to set up clash with jack in 32 jj yet to fence

Mr Wise Guy
-31st March 2012, 07:20
JJ wins 15-9

hokers
-31st March 2012, 07:39
Video here, but they're not on at the moment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FIEvideo?ob=0&feature=results_main

hokers
-31st March 2012, 07:58
Rubin vs Jack on now

Shaka
-31st March 2012, 08:08
CWF
Collister 4V 1D
Fihosy 3V 2D
King 3V 2D

hokers
-31st March 2012, 08:10
Rubin beats Jack 15-13 to move into the L16. Nice fight.

hokers
-31st March 2012, 08:42
JJ wins 15-11 vs Lysenko (UKR) to also move in to L16

Mr Wise Guy
-31st March 2012, 09:07
Rubin beaten 15-9

hokers
-31st March 2012, 09:30
JJ out to Platanov (UKR) 11-15

Ronald Velden
-31st March 2012, 09:37
Congratulations to both JJ and Rubin in making last 16 at World Championships. Both are second year Cadets and will have an opportunity to better this performance next year.

HelenC
-31st March 2012, 13:10
and congratulations to Stephanie Collister for an excellent 10th place in the women's foil (entry 77)

Helen.

Baldric
-31st March 2012, 19:57
Well done to Steph, JJ and Rubin!

tigger
-1st April 2012, 07:23
WS
Sleeman 5V and 0D
Ruaux 3V and 2D
Daykin 3V and 3D

Both Daykin and Ruaux won tricky 64s and join Sleeman in L32

tigger
-1st April 2012, 08:15
All 3 lost in L32

TBennett
-1st April 2012, 08:21
All girls out in 32 sadly.

Daykin out 15-6
Ruaux out 15-7
Sleeman out 15-8

Coupe du Nord
-1st April 2012, 08:28
All out in the 32.

British Fencing
-1st April 2012, 09:05
U17 Worlds MF 1stRd: Birch V4D1, Feaster V2D3, Bailey V1D4 #gbrfencing

Seeding: Birch 19, Feaster 48. Both have bye to 64. Bailey placed 74th and out.

British Fencing
-1st April 2012, 09:08
U17 Worlds MF 64: Birch v Petrovic (SRB), Feaster v Alarcon (CHI) #gbrfencing

British Fencing
-1st April 2012, 09:41
U17 Worlds MF 64: Birch bt Petrovic(SRB)15-12, Feaster bt Alarcon(CHI) 15-11 #gbrfencing

British Fencing
-1st April 2012, 10:20
U17 Worlds MF 32 draw: Feaster v Biren (TUR), Birch v Sakata (JPN) #gbrfencing

Feaster match will be on broadcast piste 11.35 GMT http://www.youtube.com/user/FIEvideo

British Fencing
-1st April 2012, 12:08
Biren def Feaster 15-12
Sakata def Birch 15-7

Jacdaw
-1st April 2012, 15:47
MATSUYAMA of japan wins the cadet mens foil

Hassan
-1st April 2012, 16:20
Why does the English commentator on the live feed keep saying 'block' rather than 'parry'?

HelenC
-2nd April 2012, 06:31
Cadet women's epee:-

Powell, Cormack both 4up, 2down in pools, seeded 30th and 32nd and bye into L64

Summers 2 up, 4 down, unlucky to be 1st fencer cut from pools.

Helen.

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 07:49
Cadet men's épée- curran jones 2up 4down he won two 5-4 and 5-1 and lost four 5-4 5-4 5-4 5-4 has good indicators should make cut, peck 3 up 3 down, d. 4,2 and 2 and v, 5-1 5-1 and 5-1, peplow wins his poule with 5up 1 down has good indicator it's very tight at the top from my calculations still waiting for ranking.

Danum
-2nd April 2012, 07:56
First fencers back last night after a 90 minute delay as the cargo load wasn't balanced correctly. The sun shone as we left for the first time since our arrival. The venue - Olympic venue - was well laid out and the event ran on time if not even ahead of time on occasions. The hotel was huge and very busy but surprisingly very quite at night so sleep - once we got to bed - was undisturbed. Transport to and from the venue was well organised with buses on the half hour. More fencers out today and more back this evening. Carry on the good work one and all.

HelenC
-2nd April 2012, 08:03
Girl's Epee - Cormack out 15-7 in L64, Powell through to 32 15-8 and meets Roberta Marzani (Ita)

Helen.

jmayle
-2nd April 2012, 08:10
Girl's Epee - Cormack out 15-7 in L64, Powell through to 32 15-8 and meets Roberta Marzani (Ita)

Helen.


Tough draw for Elisabeth but we have everything crossed for her..

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:15
Powell fencing Marzani 3rd seed leading 3-2

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:17
End of period 1 Powell leads 5-3

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:20
8-5 Powell leads

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:22
End of second period 9-9 tight match

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:25
Powell leads 12-10

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:26
13-11 Powell leads

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:27
13-13

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:28
Powell wins 15-13 well done excellent fencing

Danum
-2nd April 2012, 08:32
and a victory to Elisabeth knocking to 3rd seed 15-13

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:32
Harry peck loses in 128 15-8 to mikayelyan of Armenia

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:33
Curran jones to fence jeskov of Estonia in a few mins peplow 7th seed after poules

HelenC
-2nd April 2012, 08:34
Well done Lizzie! Excellent result beating the winner of Klagenfurt this season.

Keep it up!

Helen.

SAD
-2nd April 2012, 08:46
Why does the English commentator on the live feed keep saying 'block' rather than 'parry'?

most likely because he is working with an American

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:48
Curran jones is losing 7-6

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:51
Curran jones losing 9-7

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 08:52
Curran jones loses 15-10 good fight though

hokers
-2nd April 2012, 09:09
most likely because he is working with an American

Nah, it will be because they have been told not to use fencing specific jargon, in an effort to make it all more accessible to non-fencers, betcha. Pretty sure the demographic is 90% fencers at the moment though.

J4G
-2nd April 2012, 09:13
Powell wins 15-13 well done excellent fencing

Amazing effort, keep going!

British Fencing
-2nd April 2012, 09:23
U17 Worlds WE 32: Powell bt (#3 seed) Marzani (ITA) 15-13 #gbrfencing

British Fencing
-2nd April 2012, 09:33
Powell faces Khlystunova BLR in 16, we will try to cover live

HelenC
-2nd April 2012, 09:42
Lawrence Peplow wins his L64 fight 15-11 to move into L32

Helen.

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 09:47
End of 1st period Powell trails 6-4

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 09:53
End of period 2 12-12 close fight

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 09:56
Powell loses 15-12 well fought unlucky

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 11:11
Peplow fencing 6-4 leading

Meg_SF
-2nd April 2012, 11:19
Peplow 11-8 up at the 2nd break. LIVE on Youtube! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2dWyoVYzKg&context=C48c8924ADvjVQa1PpcFN_IJr71x7c59dMMgjs8c5K GThEq5wlIXI=

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 11:19
11-8 peplow leads going into third period

Mr Wise Guy
-2nd April 2012, 11:25
Peplow loses 15-13 end of British intrest today

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 06:46
U20 Worlds MS 1stRd: Aiyunero V4D2, Boteler V3D2, Miller V2D4 #gbrfencing

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 06:59
Curtis Miller through 128 over Vega (MEX) 15-7. Aiyenuro and Boteler bye to 64.

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 07:02
Live feed from Moscow should start 8.10 GMT http://www.youtube.com/user/FIEvideo/featured

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 07:16
Now 12.10 starting with L32 MS

Danum
-3rd April 2012, 07:16
For those who may have heard about the fire in a market in Moscow - it does not affect any of the GB team. Oh yes - it is snowing again!!!

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 07:34
Boteler out in L64 15-8 to Chang (HKG), Aiyenuro through to L32 def Harima (JAP) 15-13, Miller on at 11.40 local time

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 07:35
That's a 9.10 start GMT

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 07:42
U20 Worlds WF Prelim: Leah King V5D1

HelenC
-3rd April 2012, 07:44
Great performance by Leah in the pools, lost narrowly to current Junior world champion Nzinga Prescod 4-5 and only dropped three other hits in the pool - should have a good seeding for the DE.

Helen.

Mr Wise Guy
-3rd April 2012, 07:52
Curtis loses to berre 15-7 soji only Brit in 32

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 07:55
U20 Worlds MS L64: Miller out in L64 to Berre (ITA) 15-7

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 08:13
We're about to go live with U20 Men's Sabre L32 at Cadet & Junior World Championships http://bit.ly/H6vSfl Aiyenuro v Low (HKG)

Mr Wise Guy
-3rd April 2012, 08:18
King seeded 11th after poules

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 08:23
U20 Worlds WF update: King ranked 11th after first round and gets a bye through 128 #gbrfencing

Mr Wise Guy
-3rd April 2012, 08:31
Soji losing 8-4

Mr Wise Guy
-3rd April 2012, 08:41
Soji loses 15-8 disappointing day for the junior men sabreuers

HelenC
-3rd April 2012, 09:36
What's going on with Leah? Two red cards and the bout hasn't started yet?

Helen.

pinkelephant
-3rd April 2012, 09:36
Leah appears to be on 2 red cards before we even start - equipment? (Are we the only country that doesn't send an armourer as one of the officials?)

Gav
-3rd April 2012, 09:41
Well we Brits do so enjoy shooting ourselves in the foot.

Hassan
-3rd April 2012, 09:47
Leah appears to be on 2 red cards before we even start - equipment? (Are we the only country that doesn't send an armourer as one of the officials?)

If an armourer isn't considered necessary even for our elite fencers, there's not much chance of one for cadets/juniors....

At the Bonn WC team event I observed how each German fencer would come off the piste and hand his foil straight to an armourer to make sure it was ok for his next fight. No worries, no stress for the fencer.

tigger
-3rd April 2012, 10:06
That seems like a poor excuse! Surely fencers who are experienced enough to make the worlds should be able to prepare and look after their own kit? We all complain about the costs of trips - would everyone be happy to pay more to cover costs of another member of staff?

British Fencing
-3rd April 2012, 10:22
U20 Worlds WF 32 draw: King v Cellerova (SVK) due on at 12.20 BST #gbrfencing

HelenC
-3rd April 2012, 10:29
Previewhttp://www.fencingforum.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.png



Surely fencers who are experienced enough to make the worlds should be able to prepare and look after their own kit?


Unfortunately, not that straightforward for those weapons with working components - i.e. tips which can be perfectly prepared and maintained but still fail over the course of a fight/pool/competition because that's what bashing the tip against the opposition time and time again does, and which require fiddly maintenance which might not be the best preparation, say, for a fencer who needs to be on the piste fencing in the world championships in five minutes time. It's perfectly possible for all four weapons to go down during the course of a competition and fail weights/gauges without any negligence on the part of the fencer.

Still don't think you need armourers, though, just a competent team coach who can fix a tip reasonably quickly, or stick a new blade in.

Helen

Hansei
-3rd April 2012, 10:44
Previewhttp://www.fencingforum.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.png





Unfortunately, not that straightforward for those weapons with working components - i.e. tips which can be perfectly prepared and maintained but still fail over the course of a fight/pool/competition because that's what bashing the tip against the opposition time and time again does, and which require fiddly maintenance which might not be the best preparation, say, for a fencer who needs to be on the piste fencing in the world championships in five minutes time. It's perfectly possible for all four weapons to go down during the course of a competition and fail weights/gauges without any negligence on the part of the fencer.

Still don't think you need armourers, though, just a competent team coach who can fix a tip reasonably quickly, or stick a new blade in.

Helen

I could not disagree more. Looking after your weapons/equipment is the personal responsibility of the fencer. Yes, it would be an advantage to have an armourer do it for you; however even when there is an armourer with the squad, the final responsibility rests with the fencer. The fencer will be the person going on to the piste, the fencer will be the person who presents their weapons to the referee and the fencer will be the person who receives the yellow card if the weapon fails. Even if there was an armourer with the team, what would happen if he/she was busy with another fencer's weapons? Similarly, what happens when the team coach is busy with another fencer?

Further, your comment about "weapons with working components" neglects to mention how it is quite easy for a fencer who has a text box, weight, (gauge for epee) and spare body wire to check their weapon as soon as they come off the piste. If the weapon fails and this is after a DE fight, they will have time to fix the weapon and prepare themselves effectively for the next fight. If the weapon fails and it is during a poule, the fencer can then decide to use another weapon if their next fight is imminent or fix it if they have a longer gap.

Looking after your weapons is not a difficult skill; however like all skills it requires practice and it relies on the fencer incorporating the immediate checking of their weapon after a fight into their post fight routine. It needs to become a habit. Personally, I believe that fencers who have been selected to represent their country at a major championships should have developed these skills and habits already.

HelenC
-3rd April 2012, 10:58
I don't disagree that a competent fencer should be able to do all of this, and especially a fencer competing at international level. However, I would distinguish "could" from "should" at major championship level.

I think the quote below:-



If the weapon fails and it is during a poule, the fencer can then decide to use another weapon if their next fight is imminent or fix it if they have a longer gap.

Suggests we have a different approach as to how a fencer should be using their time between fights - personally I think at this level, especially in junior/cadet championships where many opponents are unknown, they should be paying 100% attention to the other bouts and identifying strengths/weaknesses/tactics that might help them in their future fights. Spending 10m between fights replacing the travel spring in an epee or retaping a foil while their next opponent is fencing wouldn't, to me, be the best use of time - but everyone's different.

I'm sure Andy Murray knows how to restring a racket - but nobody suggests he should get on with it in the breaks between games! (although it might make Wimbledon more exciting - only four rackets each, and all in-match repairs to be carried out by the players themselves in the 3m breaks!)


Helen.

Meg_SF
-3rd April 2012, 11:17
Leah King appears to be on the LIVE feed on youtube now 5-2 up going into the second period - woop!
http://www.youtube.com/user/FIEvideo/featured

Hansei
-3rd April 2012, 11:24
I think at this level, especially in junior/cadet championships where many opponents are unknown, they should be paying 100% attention to the other bouts and identifying strengths/weaknesses/tactics that might help them in their future fights. Spending 10m between fights replacing the travel spring in an epee or retaping a foil while their next opponent is fencing wouldn't, to me, be the best use of time - but everyone's different.


I agree that the time between bouts is better spent analysing an opponent; however if the weapon fails later in the poule (when 2 other fencers against whom you have already fought are on the piste) then that presents an opportunity to fix the weapon. I did say - in the sentence you quote - that the decision lay with the fencer, and I would hope they would take all circumstances into account before choosing to fix a weapon during a poule. I was not advocating immediately fixing the weapon regardless of other factors. Personally, I would put the failed weapon to one side and use another. This, of course, relies on you having several spare weapon and we could go on with the "what ifs" ("If I hadn't broken one in the warm up. . ." etc.), but I still maintain that looking after your kit is the individual fencer's responsibility and is not difficult to do yourself - even in the biggest competitions.

pinkelephant
-3rd April 2012, 11:28
Video feed is now considerably behind the Ophardt live scoring.

Meg_SF
-3rd April 2012, 11:33
King defeats Cellerova of Slovakia to move into the L16

Meg_SF
-3rd April 2012, 11:33
Video feed is now considerably behind the Ophardt live scoring.

Mine seem to match up (at least right now)

Hassan
-3rd April 2012, 11:35
Personally, I believe that fencers who have been selected to represent their country at a major championships should have developed these skills and habits already.

Fine, but economics plays a role here.

What usually happens is that more affluent fencers have a bag of five or six working weapons meaning there is no need to carry out running repairs and less fortunate others have to soldier on with two or three weapons repairing them as they go along through a competition. This is the case even at Senior elite level.

Ronald Velden
-3rd April 2012, 11:43
Firstly many congratulations to Leah on reaching the last 16 of World Championships whilst still a Cadet. A brilliant performance.

I do think that there are more important discussions than attaching blame to Leah [the fencer] or BFA in the matter of weapon failure. Such situations do happen to even the best prepared fencer or team.

pinkelephant
-3rd April 2012, 11:52
Fine, but economics plays a role here.

What usually happens is that more affluent fencers have a bag of five or six working weapons meaning there is no need to carry out running repairs and less fortunate others have to soldier on with two or three weapons repairing them as they go along through a competition. This is the case even at Senior elite level.

You can only put a maximum of 4 weapons through weapon control.

Stretching a spring which has gone light is one thing. Finding and fixing a fault like a short circuit is another thing entirely. And how many of you have tried to rewire a blade at a competition yourself, even supposing you had the relevant bits of equipment with you - let alone when you are supposed to be preparing for your next fight. Foils are notorious for developing all sorts of weird and wonderful faults.

Fencer91
-3rd April 2012, 12:30
anyone know when leah king is on?

JohnL
-3rd April 2012, 12:36
Let's hope they show Leah on the live feed.

Best of luck to her

Fencer91
-3rd April 2012, 12:42
on now

Meg_SF
-3rd April 2012, 12:48
http://www.youtube.com/user/FIEvideo/featured King vs Mancini (L16) on now

Fencer91
-3rd April 2012, 13:02
Some nice fencing in the second period from King shame a little too late. Thought she found the blade on the final hit, unlucky.

Tubby
-3rd April 2012, 17:46
Congratulations to Leah. I think that is the best JWF result at the Worlds for over a decade and one of the best junior women's result in the same period.

HelenC
-3rd April 2012, 18:07
I think that is the best JWF result at the Worlds for over a decade

And achieved by a cadet!

Well done to Leah and her coaches.

Helen

Ronald Velden
-3rd April 2012, 18:27
This is the best British result in Womens Foil at a World Championships since 1999 when Michelle Glisson reached the Final Tableau in Kesthely, which I attended. I believe that the best results since then at U20 level have been last 32. For the record
Michelle had turned 20 when she competed.

I would hope that she will get credit for this rather than some of the silly remarks about who is responsible for equiptment
failure whilst she was still fencing.

I would like to also congratulate Soji Aiyenuro on reaching the last 32 in mens sabre. He has been consistent this year at this
level in all World Cup Tournaments in which he has competed. Hopefully the British Mens Sabre Team will replicate their
excellent performance in Europeans where they finished 6th having defeated both Italy and Poland.

HelenC
-3rd April 2012, 18:49
Really, Ronald, silly? In what way? Please do explain.

Helen.

Meg_SF
-3rd April 2012, 19:17
Congratulations Leah and Coaches :-)

Mr Wise Guy
-4th April 2012, 08:06
Aliya loses in 32 to Judith Kusian of Germany 15-11

Mr Wise Guy
-4th April 2012, 08:08
Alex tofalidies is second seed aFter poules well done!!

Mr Wise Guy
-4th April 2012, 08:30
Rattan fencing in the 128

Mr Wise Guy
-4th April 2012, 08:41
Rattan defeats a higher seed 15-6

Mr Wise Guy
-4th April 2012, 08:41
Archer About to fence in the 128

Mr Wise Guy
-4th April 2012, 09:06
Archer loses in 128 15-13

Jacdaw
-4th April 2012, 09:13
Rattan defeats a higher seed 15-6
Thought he would, he had a pretty difficult poole. He deserves to be higher!

J4G
-4th April 2012, 09:15
All to wonder if he can pull something out of the bag against #1 seed next...wouldn't an all British final be great? :P

Jacdaw
-4th April 2012, 09:20
All to wonder if he can pull something out of the bag against #1 seed next...wouldn't an all British final be great? :P
You know what time they will be fencing? will it be shown on the live feed?

J4G
-4th April 2012, 09:30
You know what time they will be fencing? will it be shown on the live feed?

I think I just heard them say that MF were on their way out, hopefully it'll be shown once these matches are over. Also, WS are already finishing their last 8 fights?!?

British Fencing
-4th April 2012, 10:03
MF L32 now scheduled for 11.55 GMT start, though they have been ahead of that schedule all day. L64 is still going on.

Rattan now out to Italian Nista 15-6

J4G
-4th April 2012, 10:13
Tofalides goes 7-5 up at the start pf 2nd period. Came back from 5-1 down

J4G
-4th April 2012, 10:26
Tofalides starts the 3rd period 11-12 down.

J4G
-4th April 2012, 10:29
Tofalides def KONTOCHRISTOPOULOS (GRE) 15-13 to make the L32

DuckHitToWrist
-4th April 2012, 10:30
Tofalides starts the 3rd period 11-12 down.

and he scrapes through.

Lefty Foilist
-4th April 2012, 11:55
Tofalides vs Degtyarev (L32 I think), live on the FIE Youtube feed now.

pinkelephant
-4th April 2012, 12:10
Video a minute behind the live score again.

pigeonmeister
-4th April 2012, 12:12
I see Tofalides still conducts himself on the piste in his own unique way. He won, by the way...

Lefty Foilist
-4th April 2012, 12:15
Faces Alex Massialas (USA) in the L16. Here comes the tricky bit.

Lefty Foilist
-4th April 2012, 13:22
Tofalides down 8-10 going into a 10 minute injury break taken by himself. Much to the annoyance and chagrin of the audience commenters!

Fencer91
-4th April 2012, 13:35
What an embarrassment!

Gav
-4th April 2012, 13:37
Was all of that Alex's gameplan?

Fencer91
-4th April 2012, 13:40
Was all of that Alex's gameplan?

Apparently he has problems with his knees, however it didnt seem to affect him in his earlier DE's and whenever he was actually fencing he seemed to be ok. He also did the same thing against the same opponent at the Junior Olympics last year vs the same opponent so yeah essentially its the typical game plan of Tofalides

Jacdaw
-4th April 2012, 13:40
not just Tof tho, luperi had injury time too.

DuckHitToWrist
-4th April 2012, 13:42
What an embarrassment!

What happened? I only managed to see the first couple of minutes.

Gav
-4th April 2012, 13:42
Some people are just like that I suppose. I can't help think he might have had more of a chance if he'd just gone for it. Oh well - next time I suppose.

Jacdaw
-4th April 2012, 13:43
Some people are just like that I suppose. I can't help think he might have had more of a chance if he'd just gone for it. Oh well - next time I suppose.
I think the same thing, its harder to get back into the correct frame of mind and standard after having such a long break, best to of just continued!

Fencer91
-4th April 2012, 13:44
What happened? I only managed to see the first couple of minutes.

He kept appearing injured first his weapon arm, then his right knee then his left knee and yet miraculously managed to do some extremely dramatic fleches.

Fencer91
-4th April 2012, 13:46
I think the same thing, its harder to get back into the correct frame of mind and standard after having such a long break, best to of just continued!

Not necessarily after the injury time he closed the score gap to within a point i think. Also if your opponent is on a run of hits then your intention may be to disrupt their momentum. There is a shred of logic in what he was doing even though it was completely out of order

thefiftyniner
-4th April 2012, 13:48
Tof fenced perfectly well in his previous fight.... in fact I would say (despite a 'loose' style) impressively. Then this unsportsmanlike behavior. Feigning injury to unsettle opponent once in a while is sneaky ... this was just scandalous.

I am a GB supporter through and through however .... !

Gav
-4th April 2012, 13:48
If gamesmanship was the plan then it was being used too much. If you need to disrupt the game then do it when it counts - not all the time. According to the feed the coach (Macek?) chewed him out during the break.

Fencer91
-4th April 2012, 13:50
Half his game is gamesmanship VS anyone. I'v definitely been on the end of it and credit to Massialas for being so calm about it

Gav
-4th April 2012, 13:52
Half his game is gamesmanship VS anyone. I'v definitely been on the end of it and credit to Massialas for being so calm about it

Well he is in the top 10 in the world...

Jacdaw
-4th April 2012, 13:54
Well he is in the top 10 in the world...
I would love to hear what massialas's coach said to him to keep him so cool

DuckHitToWrist
-4th April 2012, 13:56
He kept appearing injured first his weapon arm, then his right knee then his left knee and yet miraculously managed to do some extremely dramatic fleches.

Yes, I saw when he faked the first two injuries. To be honest there is nothing wrong with faking injuries as it is very tactical, i.e. giving you time to think a game plan and it can even frustrate your opponent, getting them angry for wasting time, especially when they can see it is clearly being faked, and by frustrating the hope is for them to make mistakes.

Gav
-4th April 2012, 13:56
I would love to hear what massialas's coach said to him to keep him so cool

Probably "Here we go again, just keep going..."

J4G
-4th April 2012, 13:58
I would love to hear what massialas's coach said to him to keep him so cool

Massialas is, I hear, quite an intelligent and calm person and fencer anyway. I have heard of him not arguing with refs in the past as he deemed it "better to have a bad ref than a biased one". If the way he acted is true then it's maturity well beyond his age.

Gav
-4th April 2012, 14:00
You're not the first person I've heard say that about Massialas.

Fencer91
-4th April 2012, 14:04
Yes, I saw when he faked the first two injuries. To be honest there is nothing wrong with faking injuries as it is very tactical, i.e. giving you time to think a game plan and it can even frustrate your opponent, getting them angry for wasting time, especially when they can see it is clearly being faked, and by frustrating the hope is for them to make mistakes.

Correct however when you are deliberately impeding the fight by feigning it and time wasting then there is something wrong with that

hokers
-4th April 2012, 14:08
Tof fenced perfectly well in his previous fight.... in fact I would say (despite a 'loose' style) impressively. Then this unsportsmanlike behavior. Feigning injury to unsettle opponent once in a while is sneaky ... this was just scandalous.

I am a GB supporter through and through however .... !


Yes, I saw when he faked the first two injuries. To be honest there is nothing wrong with faking injuries as it is very tactical, i.e. giving you time to think a game plan and it can even frustrate your opponent, getting them angry for wasting time, especially when they can see it is clearly being faked, and by frustrating the hope is for them to make mistakes.

Pretty sure these two quotes are libellous.

Exactly how is it that you know he was completely unhurt when he called for a medical break?
How are you going to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he was in no pain from an injury?
Did you guys see an X-ray I didn't?

Is it not possible that his fleches involved him gritting his teeth through the pain?
Is it not possible that it didn't cause him any discomfort when fleching, only when on guard?

What happened to "innocent until proven guilty?" Or are we going with "no smoke without fire" now?
"Disgrace to british fencing" was said more than once on the youtube feed, WTF is the matter with you? How about supporting our competing juniors?
Tofalides went pretty close with a top 10 senior ranked fencer, and had a go the whole way through! He also made the L16 at the Worlds, I think we should be congratulating him for getting that far, not dragging him through the mud.

Fencer91
-4th April 2012, 14:12
Massialas is, I hear, quite an intelligent and calm person and fencer anyway. I have heard of him not arguing with refs in the past as he deemed it "better to have a bad ref than a biased one". If the way he acted is true then it's maturity well beyond his age.

I like that quote, sounds extremely intelligent...not sure i have the temperament for it though.

thefiftyniner
-4th April 2012, 14:53
Hokers ... I apologize, you are quite right there may be valid reasons for his behavior " innocent until proven guilty principle should be held to". The contrast to his L32 performance, however, was stark.

DuckHitToWrist
-4th April 2012, 15:07
Hokers ... I apologize, you are quite right there may be valid reasons for his behavior " innocent until proven guilty principle should be held to". The contrast to his L32 performance, however, was stark.

I agree and apologize too.

Jacdaw
-4th April 2012, 15:28
The commentators on the live feed keep referring to Tof and his injury :/

J4G
-4th April 2012, 15:34
Didn't expect Massialas to keep repeating an attack, which failed, for 5 consecutive hits. Much more dynamic match than the other semi, but interesting to note the efficiency of the fencing with the Greek and Italian.

pigeonmeister
-4th April 2012, 15:37
Safin is wonderful to watch; such beautiful timing and technique... he was picking off Massialas' preparation at will. Fantastic lunge and flick to shoulder also. Should be a great final with the equally impressive Italian.

Oh and with all due reverence to presumptions of innocence and the demands of patriotism, I have never liked how Tofalides conducts himself on the piste. Nothing I have seen today has changed my mind. Sorry.

pigeonmeister
-4th April 2012, 16:08
Great gameplan from Safin. Garozzo's style is one of slow, patient build-ups, using small-steps to draw the counter. He also has a great holding parry, again quite slow but extremely precise. Safin played against both beautifully- mixing up his footwork and distance, occasionally dropping his shoulder and using feints, to break up Garozzo's long and usually remorseless attacks. At the same time, he pushed in a few quick remises to capitalise on Garozzo's slow reposte. All in all Safin made himself unpredictable as Garozzo completely failed to pick up his tempo or read his distance. And what a fantastic flick to win it!

Fencer91
-4th April 2012, 16:16
He fenced extremely well in the 32 and the only reason i had to criticise him for "feigning injury" is that he has been known to employ the tactic on numerous occasions in particular when he has fenced Massialas along with other unsportsmanlike conduct on the piste. Fair enough know one is to know (apart from those there) whether he was really feigning injury, but the fact that he didn't call for an injury time out earlier on in the fight is a little bit suspicious. Also the referees and DT were clearly of the opinion of a strong possibility of feigning injury taking place as it was immediately carded in the semi final Garrozo VS Massialas. He also has a reputation for doing it both domestically and internationally. And as far as claims of libel this is a forum meant for discussion and debate know one has levelled accusations just voiced opinions.

pinkelephant
-4th April 2012, 16:28
When does an opinion turn into an accusation? I thought he was definitely moving differently after the break, and it looked like his right (rear) hip. As I used to suffer from cramp in that region, I know how intermittent the pain can be, and how it disappears when standing more upright (or, indeed, fleching).

Secondly, there is EVERYTHING wrong with feigning an injury. It is not gamesmanship, it is cheating, and is a cardable offence (group 2, instant red). The medics evidently did not think he was feigning, and, as they are medically qualified and I am not, their opinion is good enough to me.

Fencer91
-4th April 2012, 16:40
There is every possibility that is true but cry wolf too many times and well eventually no one is going to believe you. Also it was not just his leg/hip/knees he was complaining about. He was time wasting constantly throughout the fight for instance he did not need to fleche so far off the piste that he actually left the carpeted run off as well

Jacdaw
-4th April 2012, 17:17
Just to clarify, im not against anyone :) I thought Tof did brilliant today. Im just pointing out what the commentator was saying :)

Threestain
-4th April 2012, 23:18
pure enquiry as did not see the incident...

I was under the impression that it was a new injury, only, that was allowed a medical timeout. previously incurred injuries are ignored (as you entered with it etc).

I know of many a fencer who has carried an injury been relatively disabled but unable to take a time out. surely if preceding difficulties with an area this would fall under this category?

pinkelephant
-5th April 2012, 07:41
pure enquiry as did not see the incident...

I was under the impression that it was a new injury, only, that was allowed a medical timeout. previously incurred injuries are ignored (as you entered with it etc).

I know of many a fencer who has carried an injury been relatively disabled but unable to take a time out. surely if preceding difficulties with an area this would fall under this category?

True - but this did appear to be a new problem.

Barry Paul
-5th April 2012, 07:45
From F.I.E. ranking list Massialas is ranked 10 and Alex is 182. Unlucky to meet such a high ranked fencers at this stage. Great that he did so well especially when having muscle/medical problems.

I think some British fencers and visitors to the forum are under the impression that fencing is some sort of superior sport in which it is not winning but taking apart with style and integrity is the point. It is not about taking part but taking apart your opponent, winning within the rules, is the game.

ED_R
-5th April 2012, 07:54
From F.I.E. ranking list Massialas is ranked 10 and Alex is 182. Unlucky to meet such a high ranked fencers at this stage. Great that he did so well especially when having muscle/medical problems.

I think some British fencers and visitors to the forum are under the impression that fencing is some sort of superior sport in which it is not winning but taking apart with style and integrity is the point. It is not about taking part but taking apart your opponent, winning within the rules, is the game.

Hear hear.

Threestain
-5th April 2012, 08:21
True - but this did appear to be a new problem.

Fair enough - just checking I hadnt gone totally senile!

J4G
-5th April 2012, 09:10
GB MJE:

Marsh 5V1D
Frewin 6V
Hudson 4V2D

TBennett
-5th April 2012, 09:27
Mr Frewin No.1 seed after poules..! Good man.

pinkelephant
-5th April 2012, 09:36
Mr Frewin No.1 seed after poules..! Good man.

Not a bad effort!!!

Mr Wise Guy
-5th April 2012, 10:00
marsh into 64

Mr Wise Guy
-5th April 2012, 10:05
hudson loses 15-14 was 14-10 down

cesh_fencing
-5th April 2012, 10:24
Was there kit problems in Jack's match as there seemed to be a whole lot of Jack's lights during halted periods?

pigeonmeister
-5th April 2012, 10:27
I think some British fencers and visitors to the forum are under the impression that fencing is some sort of superior sport in which it is not winning but taking apart with style and integrity is the point. It is not about taking part but taking apart your opponent, winning within the rules, is the game.

I wonder what club the fencer in question is from?! Anyway, even if we accept that integrity can be abandoned in pursuit of victory, which at a stretch I possibly could; even if we give fencers carte blanche to behave as they like as long as they win (and we accept the younger impersonators of this behaviour as collatoral damage); even then we are left with the fact that Massialas generally conducts himself with dignity, composure and respect...and still won.

Anyway, I didn't really want to open up a debate on ethics on sport. The good news is that Frenwin and Marsh seem to be fencing well and let's hope they keep going.

BTW: yesterday Kareem Bashir ventured that this was the strongest U20 event he had seen (or words to that effect). The senior rankings held by some of the JMFs also seems to confirm that the gap between U20 and senior levels is closing. I haven't watched enough U20 fencing, but do others believe this?

British Fencing
-5th April 2012, 10:49
GB Men's Sabre Team (16) to face China (17) in 32 on Friday

Mr Wise Guy
-5th April 2012, 11:22
Marsh is out losing 15-14 whilst frewin goes through 15-10

TBennett
-5th April 2012, 11:31
Ouch. Frewin now has Glazkov (RUS), former Junior and Cadet World Champion.

Meg_SF
-5th April 2012, 11:51
http://britishfencing.com/news/latest-news/?n=534

Zonal Qualification selections are out

Meg_SF
-5th April 2012, 11:54
Ouch. Frewin now has Glazkov (RUS), former Junior and Cadet World Champion.

Ouch indeed! Yet, if he is going to win the competition, he has to beat the best anyway. Fingers crossed!

hokers
-5th April 2012, 12:32
http://britishfencing.com/news/latest-news/?n=534

Zonal Qualification selections are out

Reposted as a new thread, good spot.
http://www.fencingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?16472-European-Zonal-Qualifier-team-selection-released&p=261255#post261255

TBennett
-5th April 2012, 12:54
Frewin out 15-7

Ronald Velden
-5th April 2012, 14:05
Interesting. Not a single top 8 seed after poules has made final tableau in either mens or womens epee.

TBennett
-5th April 2012, 14:21
Interesting. Not a single top 8 seed after poules has made final tableau in either mens or womens epee.

Thats just epee! :P

DuckHitToWrist
-5th April 2012, 14:22
For the GBR team there were so many great hopes but all ending in utter disappointment. It seems the GBR fencers are good at fencing up to five, but up to fifteen they’re easily worked out. Biggest disappointment was Marsh, not being able to defend his title and also being knocked out by the 83rd seed.

cesh_fencing
-5th April 2012, 15:07
Thats just epee! :P

Totally agree.

Unlike foil and sabre where usually the top fencer will be significantly better than their opponent, in Epee the playing field is much tighter (especially at Junior/Cadet level) so it is often the case that those ranked in the top 8 going into the event or after round 1 will not be the eventual winner..

This is why Epee often seems to bring out what appear to be 'freak results', however for Epeeists these are just normal variation and the toss of a coin in 14-14 situations (as Phil had 2 or 3 of last year)..

You have to be there to start off with and a good seed will hopefully help with your path to a good result, however in Epee there is rarely 'an easy path' through the tableux..

Lefty Foilist
-5th April 2012, 15:20
For the GBR team there were so many great hopes but all ending in utter disappointment. It seems the GBR fencers are good at fencing up to five, but up to fifteen they’re easily worked out. Biggest disappointment was Marsh, not being able to defend his title and also being knocked out by the 83rd seed.

Defending titles is a harder task than winning them, in my view. Marsh has a couple more years (can't remember exactly how many) to get his title back. As for Frewin; I heard on the commentary that Glazkov is a former Cadet and Junior world champion, so tough draw there. And of course it's epee, the craziest thing in fencing!
All to play for now in the teams though, come on GBR!

TBennett
-5th April 2012, 16:07
Defending titles is a harder task than winning them, in my view. Marsh has a couple more years (can't remember exactly how many) to get his title back. As for Frewin; I heard on the commentary that Glazkov is a former Cadet and Junior world champion, so tough draw there. And of course it's epee, the craziest thing in fencing!
All to play for now in the teams though, come on GBR!

I do agree with that in part as there is always that added pressure of expectation to deal with. Just hope the teams can produce something special now.

Ronald Velden
-5th April 2012, 16:16
Another interesting feature is that this year's winner in Junior Mens Epee is a 16 year old Korean who came 7th in the Cadets!

thefiftyniner
-5th April 2012, 16:20
Totally agree.

Unlike foil and sabre where usually the top fencer will be significantly better than their opponent, in Epee the playing field is much tighter (especially at Junior/Cadet level) so it is often the case that those ranked in the top 8 going into the event or after round 1 will not be the eventual winner..

This is why Epee often seems to bring out what appear to be 'freak results', however for Epeeists these are just normal variation and the toss of a coin in 14-14 situations (as Phil had 2 or 3 of last year)..

You have to be there to start off with and a good seed will hopefully help with your path to a good result, however in Epee there is rarely 'an easy path' through the tableux..

After watching Park just win a few things come to mind:

1. a gentleman's match - sportsmanlike behavior at the conclusion

2. epee is a little more involved than I thought ( although I agree a lot of 14-14 deciding matches during the day)

3. it seemed to me Park won this a) because the hungarian couldn't cope with this guy's level of imagination combined with his athleticism and b) as not prepared to let him come to him to counter or stop hit him on his long attacks.

4. Pay more attention to Asia and get to know your un-ranked opponents better?

Having said that brilliant entertainment !!!!!

TBennett
-5th April 2012, 16:29
Another interesting feature is that this year's winner in Junior Mens Epee is a 16 year old Korean who came 7th in the Cadets!

Reminds me of something that happened last year in Mens's Epee!

Jacdaw
-5th April 2012, 17:12
Another interesting feature is that this year's winner in Junior Mens Epee is a 16 year old Korean who came 7th in the Cadets!
Shows epee is so random and can go either way!

TomA
-5th April 2012, 17:44
Reminds me of something that happened last year in Mens's Epee!I think Phil just retains his record of being the youngest to win it (by about 10 days).

Hungry Hippo
-5th April 2012, 18:08
Plus ca change! I remember him doing this in an LPJS U13 event..............undoubtedly talented, but oh, the baggage! Guess that's what you get if you throw pots of money at it!

Hungry Hippo
-5th April 2012, 18:21
Posted by Lefty Foilist
'Tofalides down 8-10 going into a 10 minute injury break taken by himself. Much to the annoyance and chagrin of the audience commentaters!'

Plus ca change! I remember him doing this in an LPJS U13 event..............undoubtedly talented, but oh, the baggage! Guess that's what you get if you throw pots of money at it!

Red
-6th April 2012, 08:58
I'm here in Moscow. I was there during the fight. I know what the medical delegate said.

It was real. It was perfectly justified. The end.

Tubby
-7th April 2012, 08:45
Alex T fencing out of his skin vs China, game on.

TBennett
-7th April 2012, 09:31
Men's Foil lose to China in L16 45-40

Tubby
-7th April 2012, 11:03
Alex T scores 27 of the 40 hits. Exceptional effort.

Tubby
-7th April 2012, 11:15
Anyone know what happened in the ISR v IRI match? Is it more of the same from previous years?

pinkelephant
-7th April 2012, 11:52
According to somebody on Youtube, Iran refused to fence Israel. Possibly true as this would result in a black card for Iran, and they are not listed.

Of course, they could have just not turned up this morning, in which case it would be exclusion not a black card (the difference being whether an automatic 2 month ban is applied).

Foilling Around
-7th April 2012, 12:31
Alex T scores 27 of the 40 hits. Exceptional effort.

Always difficult to second guess from many thousands of miles away, but when Amol has lost his first two fights to 1 it would have seemed a good idea to sub Callum in for the last fight. He certainly could not have done worse.

Good fencer Amol but obviously having a bad day!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

pinkelephant
-7th April 2012, 12:35
Especially as Callum did so well in the first match.

Red
-7th April 2012, 15:32
On IRI/ISR... You have two options.

1 - stay in the hotel and continue participating in the sport you love.
2 - fence, but go to prison and never take part in that sport again.

Be thankful that you will never have to make that choice.

Danum
-7th April 2012, 17:02
I believe the rule on subbing is only in case of injury - not tactical.

miraberis
-7th April 2012, 17:31
I believe the rule on subbing is only in case of injury - not tactical.

Really??? [Runs to find rule book.]

pinkelephant
-7th April 2012, 19:24
Not true. You may be confused with the previous rule at Olympics (which is changing for London).

miraberis
-7th April 2012, 21:28
Tactical substitution is part of what makes team matches interesting, glad it's not forbidden.

Fencer91
-7th April 2012, 21:33
Its because of tactical substitution that china beat france in the worlds finals

TBennett
-8th April 2012, 09:47
Mens Epee GBR lost to Germany in L32 45-34. Bit of a bum draw for a 32 team match

Fencer91
-9th April 2012, 00:36
Congratulations to Toffy for his effort in the team it sounds like he was unstoppable!!

german_fencer
-10th April 2012, 14:29
Anyone know what happened in the ISR v IRI match? Is it more of the same from previous years?
As every IRI fencer who was in a pool/de bout with an ISR fencer did not fence as well, due to this:


On IRI/ISR... You have two options.

1 - stay in the hotel and continue participating in the sport you love.
2 - fence, but go to prison and never take part in that sport again.

Be thankful that you will never have to make that choice.
Really sad, but true :/