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Gav
-9th March 2004, 15:07
Thanks to Veeco on Fencing.net for posting this.

Have a look at these two clips. They are of two high level French Epeeists getting a lesson from one of their Maitre's.

http://www.escrime-ffe.fr/MONAL/Leš...VIER-SICARD.wmv
http://www.escrime-ffe.fr/MONAL/Le%...ISSE-SICARD.wmv

I found the clips illuminating and entertaining. Makes me want to get fit and fence better.

James
-9th March 2004, 19:27
dead links. i'd be onterested to see that if you can get them working.

frazzled
-9th March 2004, 20:49
Aah

I thought I was being a dork when they wouldn't work.

Perhaps I shouldn't have thrashed the computer with that branch so hard.........................................

rpryer
-9th March 2004, 20:50
Try

here (http://http://www.escrime-ffe.fr/MONAL/Lešons%20BOISSE-SICARD.wmv)

and

here (http://www.escrime-ffe.fr/MONAL/Lešons%20JANVIER-SICARD.wmv)

frazzled
-9th March 2004, 21:05
First link "non"

(picks up branch and threatens computer)

Second link - WOW..................

James
-9th March 2004, 21:38
i wanna fence like that...:(

clockity
-9th March 2004, 21:51
Originally posted by frazled

First link "non"

(picks up branch and threatens computer)

Second link - WOW..................



First Lesson (http://www.escrime-ffe.fr/MONAL/Lešons%20BOISSE-SICARD.wmv)

(I edited rpyer's first link, as it had two "http://" that mucked up IE).

Second Lesson (http://www.escrime-ffe.fr/MONAL/Lešons%20JANVIER-SICARD.wmv)

Now, I need to work on my speed... (and fencing) :confused:

uk_45
-9th March 2004, 21:57
Youch!!


But Epee in a t-shirt that has to be a bad idea!

Rdb811
-9th March 2004, 22:31
Not if the coach knows what he is doing.

Awesome footwork.

<Vows to give up food and drink>

hokers
-9th March 2004, 23:22
Stunning use of the fleche in the first. Just an incredibly smooth movement starting with the step and constantly going forward into the fleche.

Very fast lunges in the second, would love to be that quick. He's got a funny en-garde position tho hasnt he?

Rdb811
-10th March 2004, 00:19
Becasue he's using his left hand :grin:

If you slow it down it looks like a leftie aao.

Gav
-10th March 2004, 09:15
Oops sorry about posting bad links - dunno how it happened they were just copied over. The links were taken from the Monal challenge website.

I like the clip featuring Janvier - I wish I could fence like that! Time to work hard, get fit, fence better!

aao
-10th March 2004, 10:22
Originally posted by Rdb811


If you slow it down it looks like a leftie aao.

errr yes, if you slow it down alot! :dizzy: (the thing is of course while he might have a passing resemblence to my on guard postion, I can assure you from experience that they are both alot faster and more accurate than I have ever been! :(

The thing to take from the video is that simple well timed, well executed actions can be devestatingly effective!

Threestain
-10th March 2004, 12:47
not bad, not bad at all. Janvier is the Frenchmen I respect the most. He doesn't resort to such dodgy "cheating" tactics as pommelling ;) and is wonderfully light on his feet, and seemingly a nice enough bloke. Boisse on the other hand is a bit more stereotypically "french" in character. And not as light on his feet (and actually rather poorly timed fleches which is bizarre seeing as they're all he does).

But I like Sicard's lessons. Why aren't all british coaches that agile?

aao
-10th March 2004, 13:02
because most british fencers (&me!) have enoughy trouble trying to hit a stationary target without over complicating the issue by running towards oir away from you! ;)

(admittedly I haven't found too many international fencers who seem prepared to stand around passively while I try and fleche them! :( )

((the ones I have are usually up to something truely nasty :dizzy: )

Threestain
-10th March 2004, 13:30
But if you're only trained by stationary coaches then you will have trouble hitting moving things - therefore coaches should move all the time from the beginning, at least half the time, or else it breeds bad habits. Besides the more you TRY and hit something the worse it gets.

pinkelephant
-10th March 2004, 17:06
You mean the idea is to HIT something? So that's where I've been going wrong.:grin:

gbm
-14th May 2004, 10:34
I have an idea which will seem obvious to some people - but when you are lunging, you have three choices - to retreat, to lunge full length, or to fleche off the end of it. And presumably (I can see this sort of thing in the video) you make this choice no later than halfway through the lunge? I notice in the second video, sometimes he makes a really really long lunge and hits, and sometimes as he lunges he starts to bend his rear leg to retreat really early.
Does this make any sense to you better fencers (who will already know this to be true/untrue)?

Prometheus
-14th May 2004, 11:50
perception - the fundamental of good fencing.

gbm
-14th May 2004, 12:00
Are you suggesting that I have in fact perceived the truth, or that the key is perceiving what your opponent is doing (e.g. stepping in, holding ground, retreating) and finishing your lunge appropriately?

Prometheus
-14th May 2004, 14:04
:cup:

gbm
-14th May 2004, 14:25
So which one, or both, is it?

BigPappaBear
-14th May 2004, 15:30
So how do you train someone to be that in control of there lunge. I understand the concept of a progressive attack, but at least all the momentum is moving forward. The real trick is being able to put the brakes on get the front foot on the floor and then start to move backwards... Any tips on how you would get this into a lesson?

gbm
-14th May 2004, 15:47
How about training reactions like this...
Fencer lunges from full lunge distance- coach does one of three things:
a) Stands ground, parries and ripostes.
Correct response - Fencer parries and counter-ripostes.
b) Steps in with a parry
Correct reponse - Fencer retreats from lunge quickly or doesn't lunge fully, parries and counter-ripostes.
c) Retreats instead of/with parry.
Correct reponse - Fleche off lunge with either a remise or a redouble (counter-riposte unlikely?)

Comments? I'm not too sure about b), for a start.

BigPappaBear
-16th May 2004, 07:09
Well I could always try! I'll let you know if it works...

gbm
-16th May 2004, 07:30
I've never tried it, so if it doesn't seem to work very well don't try to hard to make it.
Comments from the coaches on this forum would be nice.

DrT
-18th May 2004, 08:14
my coach uses that sort of footwork variety when introducing the counter reposte. I think it helps develop the coordination of hand and foot, as well as start that process the of perception and appropriate reaction.

aao
-18th May 2004, 09:03
Originally posted by goodbadandme
How about training reactions like this...
Fencer lunges from full lunge distance- coach does one of three things:
a) Stands ground, parries and ripostes.
Correct response - Fencer parries and counter-ripostes.
b) Steps in with a parry
Correct reponse - Fencer retreats from lunge quickly or doesn't lunge fully, parries and counter-ripostes.
c) Retreats instead of/with parry.
Correct reponse - Fleche off lunge with either a remise or a redouble (counter-riposte unlikely?)

Comments? I'm not too sure about b), for a start.

I think you would rather appreciate Steve Pauls lessons if these are the kind of sequences you're after....

a) doable but very rarely do the top guys stay stationary on the lunge they'll probably be moving forward or backwards while parrying.

b) won't work, if you fully commit to a lunge you are unlikely to be able to recover in time, angle your wrist around the parry (especially if quarte) and renew. If you want to draw the parry, start with and extending arm and a floating lunge which will draw your opponents response, but also give you time react.

c) yes

a very good (if painful) exercise Steve is keen on is start on a full lunge, with your point on his chest, he will then either move forward or backwards while trying to find your blade, you have to react accordingly (either recover backwards with a disengage repost to body or disengage fleche, somethime he'l start forwards and then retreat and you have to change direction very rapidly!) much harder than it sounds but supurb for reactions.

gbm
-18th May 2004, 09:34
I'll probably try that. What should you do when your opponent steps in with a parry, and how would you get that into an exercise?

Threestain
-18th May 2004, 11:26
3 should also be a hit to foot - nearest target and a complete change of line. Obviously not for foil. Standing ground is very rarely a good idea - movement with the parry is better.

To get an step in would require you to do a feint, in order to draw the counter-attack - the idea of the step in is so that attack misses, falls flat etc. The correct response should be something like changing the lunge to a step or merely an arm movement.

Chris Morgan
-23rd May 2004, 16:48
I Love to hit the feet, i was in austria fighting in an international and i beat an israli 5-1 with 4 hits to foot, he was good but very tall and slow with big feet, very essential to good fencing are foot hits

Green
-23rd May 2004, 16:57
Originally posted by Chris Morgan
very essential to good fencing are foot hits

Thats sounds like a Yoda sentence construction
"The shroud of the darkside has fallen. Begun the clone war has."

Should Chris' sentence not read "Foot hits are essential to good fencing"?

dunastor
-23rd May 2004, 18:29
The Yoda expression would be:

Very essential to good fencing, foot hits are..

or

essential to good fencing, foot hits are very...

or

use the force....

aao
-23rd May 2004, 18:53
Originally posted by Chris Morgan
very essential to good fencing are foot hits


Very foolish is the opponent who get hits on the foot 4 times out of 5.......

gbm
-23rd May 2004, 19:04
Either that or they have duck-sized giant feet...

Ulrika
-23rd May 2004, 19:09
Originally posted by dunastor
The Yoda expression would be:...or use the force....
Or "May the schwarz be with you!" :tongue:

Chris Morgan
-24th May 2004, 19:33
HAHAHA! i never saw tht green! very funny, yes this guy did have huge feet, funny thing is though i lost in the 64 round and he went on to get to the last 8... very annoying, also two other guys i beat in the poules finished 1st and 3rd

:mad: should of seen my face after i found out

gbm
-24th May 2004, 21:13
I've heard some fencers will 'throw' fights in the poules to ensure they come up against other members of their club (or is it the other way round?).

Chris
-24th May 2004, 21:29
What? Throwing members of their club, so that they'll be assured of a fight in the poules?

gbm
-24th May 2004, 21:33
I have made a resolution never to shorten 'laugh-out-loud' to a certain three letter acronym, but now would be an appropriate time otherwise :tongue:

No, I meant that they might want to not come up against other members of their clubs in the DE. Or they might, I don't know what the tactical advantage to either way is.

Green
-24th May 2004, 22:19
With the modern system of 1 round of poules and then DE it is impossible to dictate who you will fence by throwing a fight. Especially in a big competition.

In the old system were it was poules right through to the final if you were already through you could throw a fight against your team-mate that he had to win so that you both go through to the next round of poules.

Think foreigners used to shaft British fencers in Internationals doing this so that why it changed to DEs

Hope that makes sense!

MiniMelia
-17th February 2005, 10:26
uh might be going back quite far into the post but the links that any of you guys sent dont work? Should I also take a branch to my comp or is it the link? I'll try again tomorow and see if it works then. Hope I get to see the lessons from what I've read they're really good.

Shall I beat my comp? or is it the links?

Gav
-17th February 2005, 10:29
Looks like those links have expired. It was inevitable that they would take the page down at some point.

gbm
-17th February 2005, 13:45
Very temporary links on this thread...
http://fencingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4105