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reposte
-13th March 2004, 20:10
what will the effect of the new point on flicking be, The tip having to travel longer?
Will you still be able to flick?

gbm
-14th March 2004, 20:16
I can't see flicks that don't stick working. I can see (as a possibility) a lot of white-and-coloured lights from where the resistance is too high, as the contact time is too short to let the full amount of charge required flow (I believe a capacitor has to be charged?). But maybe this would happen anyway at the moment if this was going to happen...

Many people believe it won't change anything (which I find difficult to believe, since it will be harder to hit than in epee).

But then I'm not a flicker so I'm optimistic.

Pointy stick
-15th March 2004, 06:35
Anything that reduces the odds of a flick registering will make a fencer that little bit less likely to use the technique, and a little bit less likely to succeed if (s)he does try. I doubt it will eliminate flicks, but it might change the balance of the game a bit.

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, which is a separate argument.

gbm
-15th March 2004, 10:03
Definitely good.

oddball
-15th March 2004, 11:13
I recon whatever they do, people will adapt their style to get round it.

Australian
-15th March 2004, 14:58
the good flicks will still land... its just the glancing ones that won't light because of the increased contact time.

It'll be like flicking an epee....

Pointy stick
-15th March 2004, 16:55
Perhaps the new tip will emphasise the difference between a "flick" and a "whip". A very quick movement with a sudden change of angulation is one thing; it's a completely different thing when the blade bends round a corner because the fencer has used a hand movement similar to that used in a wet tea towel fight.

At a recent competition (MOFT?) I have a memory of taking a lovely high parry (not my strongest suit) and watching my opponent's blade just wrap itself round my forte like a grappling line and hit me anyway. If the new rules eliminate some of that, I won't complain.

oddball
-16th March 2004, 11:22
Yes, and the type of hit that could be done with the average horsewhip, and with the same end in mind, aka causing discomfort and TRYING to get a hit. Feel sorry for them sometimes......

gbm
-16th March 2004, 12:14
It's whips I hate. Possibly the new tip will also prevent what a friend of mine calls 'flangy' hits (?). Such as where a beginner is hitting flat, because they are not aiming their ripostes, but it at least sometimes comes up and is slightly annoying when it does. While this is obviously not a major issue, perhaps the new point will increase consistency in what registers?

gbm
-16th March 2004, 12:18
And I've never seen an epee flick - how does that happen?

sparkymark567
-16th March 2004, 13:51
You can flick an epee quite easily, but it's not used that often. Probably because you'll get hit under the arm whilst perfoming the action.

Robert
-16th March 2004, 13:51
Originally posted by goodbadandme
And I've never seen an epee flick - how does that happen?

James Lockyer. Just outside the top 100. It happens very fast, sometimes preceded by a bind, up and down your arm for about 15 hits. Lots and lots of bruises. But out of 37 fights at opens that is the only one where I have been flicked.

Robert

Boo Boo
-16th March 2004, 14:03
Have seen lots of epeeists flick just over the guard (hit on the hand/wrist) - nice move... :)

Boo

randomsabreur
-16th March 2004, 14:09
I've seen Jon Willis and Dudley Tredger flick moderately often. But it is probably riskier at epee so will be done successfully by people with good distance control (so not at risk of stop hit to wrist while doing the flick) or as a first move to just beyond wrist where if it works great, if it doesn't don't care because I wanted you to react to it the way you did.

Not that I've ever done this, can't even get a blatently flicky foil to flick and actually struggle to hold an epee for the full length of a DE coz its so heavy

Threestain
-16th March 2004, 14:37
Flicking with an epee with incredibly easy. Seeing as I have lessons with four or five flicks to wrist, with and without takes, following each other, its a damn good thing too! If you watch the better epeeists here and abroad you'll see that a flick to wrist and beyond are common moves. In general Germans, Russians, Ukranians, Hungarians et al do it (ie everyone) and also the French even when pommelling. So therefore pretty easy eventually. Plus it doesn't have to hurt or even be felt - the epee world number one's flicks are actually pretty light/unfeelable, but when distance is slightly out and he hits the guard - bang, epee snaps. Oh and John Chalmers beat him at London, so he's not an invincible god (just does a lot of comps. Unlike the almost-godly Kolobkov who has a current 50% win record. That is he either gets knocked out on day 1 or wins the A Grade)

oddball
-16th March 2004, 16:16
Thats incentive to learn to flick at epee..

gbm
-16th March 2004, 20:39
Maybe all the foil-to-epee traitors will come back to foil when everybody (even not-good fencers) flicks in epee. :)
I've never been to a competition where a single weapon lasted more than a day, let alone an A-grade.
And you don't get hit in the back by a person standing in front of you in epee. How much the blade bend by anyway; I'd guess (correct me here) no more than 5cm of flex?
Whereas with a foil...

Threestain
-16th March 2004, 23:15
I can probably get my blade to bend to about a flex of roughly 10-15 cm. And yes you cna get hit in the back with epee. Easily. I would be really quite annoyed if no weapon lasted more than 1 comp. I would then take it back and get a replacement. My blades have lasted roughly 3 months I would say. And that's using one three times a week for lessons and fights, then most weekends. You are either using poor quality blades (which should also last longer than that) or are doing something very badly wrong with you distance and are probably hurting people (not that I hit lightly though). It might also be that the angle generated by using a french grip is too small to allow a good bend on impact, and so it more likely to cause a sudden snap.

Oh and foil to epee traitors? Well once people have stepped into the light they rarely go back. And if they do go back they'll just flick at foil. :tongue:

Australian
-17th March 2004, 09:56
Originally posted by goodbadandme
Maybe all the foil-to-epee traitors will come back to foil when everybody (even not-good fencers) flicks in epee. :)

not really :)

poor flickers in epee get hit. its as simple as that.

The only time i flick in epee is to the wrist, or to the body if i've drawn my opponents parry and i can't disengage.

Australian
-17th March 2004, 10:01
Originally posted by goodbadandme
And you don't get hit in the back by a person standing in front of you in epee. How much the blade bend by anyway; I'd guess (correct me here) no more than 5cm of flex?
Whereas with a foil...

but you don't need to hit on the back in epee.

flicking isn't the evil that some make it out to be.


At a recent competition (MOFT?) I have a memory of taking a lovely high parry (not my strongest suit) and watching my opponent's blade just wrap itself round my forte like a grappling line and hit me anyway. If the new rules eliminate some of that, I won't complain.

step back? move out of distance?

if parrying flicks isn't your "strongest suit", you can hardly complain when you stand there and get hit.

you don't need any new rules to eliminate it, you just need to know how to fence :)

even so, the new rules probably won't change it too much, a direct good flick to the shoulder should still light

Rdb811
-17th March 2004, 12:42
To make it clear to the foilists, the 'flick' in epee is a completely different beast to the flick in epee - more a twitch of the tip than the entire blade. It is a perfectly standard tactic - involving probably the same degree of risk as any other and a lot less painful than a straight thrust into the bend of the arm.

Prometheus
-17th March 2004, 13:56
'flick' in epee is a completely different beast to the flick in epee

RDB811 - Not sure you meant to say what you did, but it is different and only due to the need to protect your wrist during the action as in many other actions in epee.

In foil - to make a flick attack work requires skill and precision, different action but the same level of skill, against a good foilist (some one in top 50-ish).

I wouldn't be surprised that you would be unaware of this not being a good foilist . Ha :)

Threestain
-17th March 2004, 14:15
I don't think that RDB811 is right at all. The flick in epee is very similar to the flick in foil (assuming that's what you meant to say). To "twitch the tip" enough to bend around a guard you have to produce a bend of at least 2-4cm. That's if you're doing it correctly with your hand raising at the same time (though admittedly this causes more hits under the hand). Other wise you need to cause a much bigger bend, requiring more force. And as both foils and epees are pieces of metal the same principles apply. The only difference is the amount of care that goes into protecting the wrist.

Prometheus
-17th March 2004, 14:40
I suppose one thing is true, that without ROW you cannot afford to use the wrist/arm as liberally as sometimes used in foil. Still correctly executed flick actions are usually a finger action rather than the agricultural arm action common at certain [mid] levels in foil.

Threestain
-17th March 2004, 16:06
I would say wrist and fingers, unless you are Hungarian where the wrist is far more rigid than other styles (I could be wrong but that's what I have picked from watching and having lessons from Hungarian coaches). The Italian and Soviet schools are far more wrist based and loose, for example.

Prometheus
-17th March 2004, 16:55
agreed

Pointy stick
-17th March 2004, 17:12
Originally posted by Australian

if parrying flicks isn't your "strongest suit", you can hardly complain when you stand there and get hit.


I'm still in the transitional stage between relying mainly on quarte/sixte parries and starting to use the others. My point was I was quite chuffed to get the blade in the (almost) right position to parry, and startled to find how far my opponent's blade wrapped around it. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm stilll learning the game.This was one of those learning moments. Nevertheless, I did feel a twinge of "You never saw swords bend like that in Carrots of the Pirabbean.";)

Rdb811
-17th March 2004, 22:00
Originally posted by Prometheus
RDB811 - Not sure you meant to say what you did, but it is different and only due to the need to protect your wrist during the action as in many other actions in epee.

In foil - to make a flick attack work requires skill and precision, different action but the same level of skill, against a good foilist (some one in top 50-ish).

I wouldn't be surprised that you would be unaware of this not being a good foilist . Ha :)

What makes you think I'm not a good foilist, but choose to hide my light under a bushell ?? Or inded that I think the flick hit in foil doesn't need skilll ? Nothing like an ad homimem argument if logical fials.

In epee the hand is still pointing toward the opponent; in foil it is in a different plane.

Prometheus
-17th March 2004, 22:18
nunc est bibendum, quod erat demonstrandum

Rdb811
-17th March 2004, 22:39
I'll rephrase - you don't get big flicks iin epee and it doesn't have the same effect on the ROW as in foil by definition ( or cause such controversy. )


(shuffles back down the piste)

Threestain
-18th March 2004, 07:13
Yes you do, just not as often. And it doesn't have an effect on ROW as it doesn't exist

rory
-18th March 2004, 08:08
cf Jon Willis.
Watching the Bristol L8 fights in September: step back, big seconde beat parry, flick to back of shoulder.
Sometimes with a jump.

Oh, I forgot: no-one flicks at epee.

Rdb811
-18th March 2004, 11:30
Originally posted by Rdb811
( or cause such controversy. )


I give up.

Tubby
-18th March 2004, 11:53
Originally posted by Robert
James Lockyer. Just outside the top 100. It happens very fast, sometimes preceded by a bind, up and down your arm for about 15 hits. Lots and lots of bruises. But out of 37 fights at opens that is the only one where I have been flicked.

Robert I fence Jim most weeks and when he's on song my wrist and thumb joints are useless for a couple of days after. If I'm static enough he is able to flick to hand with a fleche which is quite hard to pick as I think he is out of range, relax, bang - ouch!

Dalby
-18th March 2004, 12:28
One point we've all overlooked here.

I've always found it jolly easy to flick at epée - even while using a French grip - simply because the tip is a lot heavier than the typical foil tip; greater momentum and all that.

If this new mini-epée tip for foils is any weightier than the existing foil tip then it should be possible to get an even greater curve on the blade and make landing flicks easier, not harder?

Just a thought.

gbm
-18th March 2004, 20:00
Originally posted by Threestain
I would be really quite annoyed if no weapon lasted more than 1 comp. I would then take it back and get a replacement. My blades have lasted roughly 3 months I would say. And that's using one three times a week for lessons and fights, then most weekends. You are either using poor quality blades (which should also last longer than that) or are doing something very badly wrong with you distance and are probably hurting people (not that I hit lightly though). It might also be that the angle generated by using a french grip is too small to allow a good bend on impact, and so it more likely to cause a sudden snap.


(I know this response is a bit late; I've been in hospital proving that I was perfectly healthy, at least I was when I went in!)
I meant I've never been to a single competition where the event for one weapon lasted more than one day, sorry. I've only broken two foil blades in five years at two sessions a week of light usage, and they were non-maraging swords, one of which was second-hand.
As for the french grips, I've heard they are actually safer, as the blade snaps out of the hand when blade breaks, whereas with a pistol grip it tends to continue in its previous direction (i.e. towards the other persons chest), but this may be propaganda. I personally think you are less likely to break a sword with a French grip.


Oh and foil to epee traitors? Well once people have stepped into the light they rarely go back. And if they do go back they'll just flick at foil. :tongue:

oooohh... :)

Australian
-19th March 2004, 13:45
Originally posted by Pointy stick
I'm still in the transitional stage between relying mainly on quarte/sixte parries and starting to use the others. My point was I was quite chuffed to get the blade in the (almost) right position to parry, and startled to find how far my opponent's blade wrapped around it. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm stilll learning the game.This was one of those learning moments.

you say it yourself :)

foils are like that, and you should learn from it. The most important thing in defending flick hits is distance.

Btw, rapiers and foils/epees/sabres are completely different things :)

Dalby
-19th March 2004, 13:52
Originally posted by Australian
Btw, rapiers and foils/epees/sabres are completely different things :)

Mainly true, but the modern epée is basically a blunt "court sword" with a rather utilitarian hilt & guard. The court sword itself evolved out of the rapier (The Royal Armouries at Leeds have some interesting transitional swords from the period 1650-1680).

Pointy stick
-19th March 2004, 16:47
Well, Mr. Dalby, if one is to examine things in such detail, a sabre is a very different thing from a sabre too. The three main fencing weapons (I exclude spring bayonet and single stick;) ) are all artificial weapons designed to interact with the rules to produce a game which emphasises different aspects of good swordsmanship.

They are all designed, of course, to eliminate one of the fundamental purposes of good swordsmanship.

As for the utilitarian guards: weren't they the chaps who were facing the wrong way when Caesar was stabbed?:tongue:

oddball
-2nd April 2004, 16:58
ooooh, a fight is probable here..

ceprab
-5th April 2004, 18:01
In that case, bet on the guy using the non-fencing swords.

devalleassoc
-6th April 2004, 03:21
Originally posted by oddball
ooooh, a fight is probable here..

SSsshhh, they're just getting warmed up. Perpare to jump in as the opportunity presents itself!!

jamie
-3rd May 2004, 13:25
Originally posted by reposte
what will the effect of the new point on flicking be, The tip having to travel longer?
Will you still be able to flick?

Ive read the artcicle in the new sword issue about the new foil timings and stuff and it looks to me that if u can flick in epee then you can flick in foil still.....and as an epeeist who flicks then i think that flicking willl still be used in foil

gbm
-3rd May 2004, 18:29
The new tip would actually be more difficult to make a hit register than an epee, as it has the same weight (750g) but twice the travel (2mm) I think. But the critical difference is that currently there is no requirement in either foil or epee for 'hold' the point down for more than 1-2ms. With the new changes, the point must remain depressed for 15ms to register a hit. Compare 15ms with the epee blocking time of 40-50ms, and you see it is a significant, although short, period of time. In fact flicking is very heavily reduced just by the new timing, without altering the tip at all. So it will be much more difficult to flick in foil than in epee.

Neo
-12th May 2004, 00:17
Originally posted by Pointy stick
Perhaps the new tip will emphasise the difference between a "flick" and a "whip". A very quick movement with a sudden change of angulation is one thing; it's a completely different thing when the blade bends round a corner because the fencer has used a hand movement similar to that used in a wet tea towel fight.

At a recent competition (MOFT?) I have a memory of taking a lovely high parry (not my strongest suit) and watching my opponent's blade just wrap itself round my forte like a grappling line and hit me anyway. If the new rules eliminate some of that, I won't complain.

I like that against left handers with strong parries... (left handers kill me) in this case you want em to parry and parry hard... and the blade bends right round and bob's your uncle. Don't manage to pull it off very often, but its nice when it does :P

Neo
-12th May 2004, 00:23
Originally posted by Threestain
I can probably get my blade to bend to about a flex of roughly 10-15 cm. And yes you cna get hit in the back with epee. Easily. I would be really quite annoyed if no weapon lasted more than 1 comp. I would then take it back and get a replacement. My blades have lasted roughly 3 months I would say. And that's using one three times a week for lessons and fights, then most weekends. You are either using poor quality blades (which should also last longer than that) or are doing something very badly wrong with you distance and are probably hurting people (not that I hit lightly though). It might also be that the angle generated by using a french grip is too small to allow a good bend on impact, and so it more likely to cause a sudden snap.

Oh and foil to epee traitors? Well once people have stepped into the light they rarely go back. And if they do go back they'll just flick at foil. :tongue:

I think he meant weapon lasting more than one day as in the competition for that weapon didn't last more than one day :P

oddball
-12th May 2004, 10:04
Flicks at epee always miss if im doing them!

jamesthornton
-12th May 2004, 16:16
.[
The new tip would actually be more difficult to make a hit register than an epee, as it has the same weight (750g) but twice the travel (2mm) I think.


if the travel was 2mm compared to 1mm at epee tehn it wouls surely be easier to hit as it would not have to travel as far.

also the worls number 1 at epee christof marek (not sure how spelt) when having a warm up lesson before the london epee did almost nothing but flick.

i dont get the big fuss about a new foil tip especialy as no1 has seen one yet. i realy cant see it being brought in for another few years

Neo
-12th May 2004, 17:04
As people have noted, you can still flick in epee, so you will still be able to flick in foil. The only difference will be that it will be only the people who actually can flick who'll be able to. After the changes a flick will need a lot more strength, speed and accuracy behind it in order to register. At the high end I doubt it will affect anybody's ability to flick, however the people at the other end who rather whip instead of flick will no longer be able to do so.

gbm
-12th May 2004, 17:58
Apparently the tip will not be brought in next season as was originally planned, only the timing alterations. And 2mm of travel would make it harder - the travel is the minimum distance that the point has to move before a hit can be registered. In epee, to enable easy testing, it is required that total travel be greater than 1.5mm and that the tip does not trigger until within the last 0.5mm.

Neo
-12th May 2004, 18:20
Originally posted by goodbadandme
Apparently the tip will not be brought in next season as was originally planned, only the timing alterations.


No surprise there. I suspect we won't be seeing it for some years. After all, it would seem rather difficult to bring in something which doesn't yet exist.


And 2mm of travel would make it harder - the travel is the minimum distance that the point has to move before a hit can be registered. In epee, to enable easy testing, it is required that total travel be greater than 1.5mm and that the tip does not trigger until within the last 0.5mm.

You said that already I believe. Its sad that the archaic "it just isn't what it used to be" school of thought won through on these, fencing has evolved since classical fencing in that it is now a sport rather than purely a combat discipline. Might be an idea to send them all back to steam fencing and let the modern fencers fence :0 (or better yet, let them use real swords :D)

But where there's a will there's a way, I strongly suspect flicks won't be disappearing any time soon ;)

gbm
-12th May 2004, 18:35
I don't think the FIE really care whether fencing ends up classical or not - they just don't want foil to end up as fencings fifth wheel, which it is rapidly becoming.
And the 'natural evolution without modification' school of thought wouldn't have removed the fleche from sabre, which I'm guessing most people now agree with.

Neo
-12th May 2004, 18:47
Originally posted by goodbadandme
I don't think the FIE really care whether fencing ends up classical or not - they just don't want foil to end up as fencings fifth wheel, which it is rapidly becoming.
And the 'natural evolution without modification' school of thought wouldn't have removed the fleche from sabre, which I'm guessing most people now agree with.

There's nothing wrong with changing the rules, however not when that action takes a step backwards instead of forwards.

Also talking about flicky foils - it won't make much difference, there's plenty of people atm with foils that can bend a lot more than 2cm (my GB Pro I could probably bend to about 10/15/20cm) its whether its bent when you come on guard that counts - so straighten with a very slight bend at the tip and you can still flick to your heart's content

gbm
-12th May 2004, 19:06
Is it a step backwards when you are sliding downhill? Backwards is possibly the way up, both to 'fix' foil and to permit it to evolve down more productive routes.

And you can of course just straighten your sword every time. However this will probably lead to demand for stiffer swords just because doing this every time you come on guard is a PITA, especially if you are trying to get a 1cm bend and not just unkink it from your last hit.

Also the bend must be uniform and towards the centre of the blade, so you aren't allowed a big kink at the end!

Neo
-12th May 2004, 19:12
my blades fairly stiff anyways with a slight bend (that varies in size depending on how much I do it underfoot) in the top half. I generally straighten it once or twice per night when fencing... and it flicks rather nicely indeed :D

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, people will still flick, however the opportunity to do it will be decreased as only good flickers will be able to do it (and accurately).

gbm
-12th May 2004, 19:21
Won't it be good when only good fencers are able to hit! Instead of whoever lets rip first.
I think the majority of the 'problem' flicks that do not land on target but fly off it will not register 80% of the time, period. No matter how good a flicker you are. Or at least it will be so difficult a chest hit will be hundreds of times easier. The 'problem' with 'problem' flicks is that they allow the raising of the wrist to attack, causing ROW confusion, and they allow the distance to be overshortened, allowing marching attacks more (which also cause ROW problems).
With the lack of reports of testing with the new timings, it is hard to predict what effect they have. Has anybody tried them yet (who isn't an epeeist!)? Preferably a very good flicker? Have any of the good, forward thinking clubs sent any boxes for modification yet?

Neo
-12th May 2004, 19:30
Originally posted by goodbadandme
[B]Won't it be good when only good fencers are able to hit! Instead of whoever lets rip first.

That was my point :P (ps I'm not very good either :P)


I think the majority of the 'problem' flicks that do not land on target but fly off it will not register 80% of the time, period.

If a flick doesn't land on target, then it shouldn't register anyways :P

No matter how good a flicker you are. Or at least it will be so difficult a chest hit will be hundreds of times easier. The 'problem' with 'problem' flicks is that they allow the raising of the wrist to attack, causing ROW confusion.B][/QUOTE]

Only if the referee is crap.

You can still flick to chest, there's one guy I fence in particular and for some reason a flick on preparation around his blade to around the stomach area seems to always land (with a direct attack I would need to take his blade out of the way first)

gbm
-12th May 2004, 19:44
Originally posted by Neo
If a flick doesn't land on target, then it shouldn't register anyways :P

Sorry, wrong word. I should have said sticks to target for at least a fraction of a second.


Only if the referee is crap.

Look around! If the referee can't even understand what is going on, how are spectators meant to?


You can still flick to chest, there's one guy I fence in particular and for some reason a flick on preparation around his blade to around the stomach area seems to always land (with a direct attack I would need to take his blade out of the way first)

Is that with a glancing flick that may stick for less than 15ms?

And one of my favourite quotes from one of my favourite fencers again:


Originally said by Sergei Golubitsky
When a fencer is going to finish his attack with flick it creats no problem. The problem appears when a fencer (fencer A) is walking forward, pretending to have right of way, in fact is waiting for "counter attack" of opponent (fencer B). Of course it's important how fencer B is performing his attack on preparation (body language). Fencer A finishing his "attack" with flick (if he'd finish it with touch/thrust, his mistake would be too obvious for referee and point would be given against him. Therefore he has no choice but to finish with flick).

It's very difficult to win a tempo against "flicker".And again we've arrived at point when the role of referee is very important. He is the one who has to "read" intentions of fencer A. Attack which lasts 30 minutes isn't attack anymore. Promenade isn't attack. Fencing developed the way that arriving to the top you "forced" to use flick more frequent then touch. I'd say it's because of poor technical and tactical repertoire rather than being up-to-date.

In the end of my career I returned to touching technique,while right after Junior age preffered flicks (at that time it was hot, it was a "new wave"). For the present Senior and Junior generation the fencing is good the way it is. But they didn't see "the good old fencing" (I did. I even fenced with Romankov from 1989 thru 1991 for the USSR team.) It's very popular these days complain about "oldies" which don't understand anything in modern fencing.

I'd say that fencing 10, 20, 25 years ago was much more interesting than nowadays. Fencers like Gregory, Cerioni and others agree with me. So,assuming all this, I guess, some changes have to be done in today's foil fencing.

I can't help but read that regularly.

oddball
-13th May 2004, 10:04
Ah well, it will stop one of our fencers slapping with the blade under the impression that she is flicking!

Saxon
-13th May 2004, 10:49
Originally posted by Neo

...so straighten with a very slight bend at the tip and you can still flick to your heart's content...

...my blades fairly stiff anyways with a slight bend (that varies in size depending on how much I do it underfoot) in the top half...

m.8
The blade should be as straight as possible. Any curve of the blade must be uniform and the maximum bend must in any case be less than 2 cm; it is only permitted in the vertical plane and must be near the centre of the blade.

Have seen very few referees enforce this, PinkElephant being one of them - very funny, the girl in question got quite irritated, taking three attempts to get the bend legal :)

gbm
-13th May 2004, 15:02
I'd do it - but then I'm that kind of belligerent individual (I'm sure you were all blissfully unaware of this).
I remember when the new FIE rules came in a while ago this rule was restated but it was not actually a change - the FIE just wanted to emphasise it and make sure it was enforced.

Neo
-13th May 2004, 15:07
Originally posted by Saxon
m.8
The blade should be as straight as possible. Any curve of the blade must be uniform and the maximum bend must in any case be less than 2 cm; it is only permitted in the vertical plane and must be near the centre of the blade.

Have seen very few referees enforce this, PinkElephant being one of them - very funny, the girl in question got quite irritated, taking three attempts to get the bend legal :)

I can straighten mine with one movement under the foot so no problem there, but conversely with one foot movement I can put a 6cm bend in it. The blade is sufficiently stiff that it will stay roughly in whatever its put into. :)

oddball
-14th May 2004, 11:41
Let it be known that I envy that greatly..

Neo
-14th May 2004, 13:24
I'm rather fussy (and also rather protective) about my blades :)

Neo
-14th May 2004, 13:31
I'm sure given time it will go, but for now its yummy :)

I have to give credit to LP for sorting me out with exactly what I wanted. Allstar on the other hand gave me a random blade and said "its not the blade that flicks, its the fencer"... ;)

oddball
-14th May 2004, 19:05
Well that is true to a point, the fencer flicks the blade, but then the blade is flicking and the fencer is flicking so it is both right and wrong at the same time...

gbm
-14th May 2004, 20:33
The fencer flicks the blade so that the blade is being flicked. Now a blade flicking a fencer would be far more amusing...

Neo
-14th May 2004, 20:41
Originally posted by oddball
Well that is true to a point, the fencer flicks the blade, but then the blade is flicking and the fencer is flicking so it is both right and wrong at the same time...

Yep, but the fact that I'm asking for a flicky blade isn't directly because I want to flick, its mainly a reference to the blade consistency that I want, so in view of that the response was rather unhelpful.

Also, Allstar give you the impression they're just out to sell you stuff.... (like the blade they happened to pick up when I asked was in fact a top of the range BF FIE)

gbm
-14th May 2004, 20:45
I have a theory that once a company reaches a certain size, it becomes incapable of a significant amount of innovation, possibly because of things like the costs of retooling, but more likely simply because they don't need to - they have a large established customer base and don't really care about individuals because they are too big.