PDA

View Full Version : proposal



Laurence
-7th May 2003, 23:46
i want to propose bringing back the system in place in all A grades into opens. byes to the 64 for the top 16. come on, how else will people learn what it's like to compete like a real fencer.

why should the top 16 be dragged in to take the piss out of 6 people early in the morning, we can do that in the 64 to whoever is lucky enough to get through.

controversial eh?

kingkenny
-8th May 2003, 07:28
It gives you a chance to work of some of those Pies.

haggis
-8th May 2003, 08:23
Yeah. A bit of early morning exercise would do you the world of good. Plus no Brits get to have a bye into the L64 at A grades anyway so it's hardly realistic preparation for British fencers. Maybe a better idea would be get the top 16 (who are presumably more likely to fence at A grades) to turn up even earlier, fence in two poules of 8 to seed the top16 and then wait for the L64. How does an 8 o'clock start sound to you Laurence?:grin:

Arturo
-8th May 2003, 08:58
From the point of view of one of those fencers you are likely to take the piss out of, it's the reason I occasionally go to big opens. Frankly, I would rather have a poule full of top 10 fencers who all beat me 5-0 than a poule with fencers of my own level. I learn more.

The top fencers have a responsibility to the rest of the fencing community to share their skills (not by coaching, but by demonstration). The grass roots fencer is just as important as the elite fencer.

Do you think you never get any benefit from fencing in the poules? Have you never been taken close to defeat by a non-elite fencer, or learned something about your own fencing by coming against somebody who is just damned awkward?

kingkenny
-8th May 2003, 09:18
Jon weeks gave him a run for his money the other day.
What was the score?
14 - 10

rory
-8th May 2003, 09:25
Then again, Jon Weekes is hardly a beginner... he's ranked 21 at the moment.

Gets his own fair share of 16s as far as I can see.

aao
-8th May 2003, 10:15
Well its not unheard of, I think the essex used to be run like that with the top 8 off the rankings having a straight bye into the 64. i much prefer Laurence's idea I mean as an epeeist who has slipped up on any number of occasions to the poule muppets I would much rather have a bye rather than have to keep conentrating for 6 fights bright and early in the morning!

and no jon weeekes is definately not a muppet!

rory
-8th May 2003, 10:22
From my perspective (not a muppet, but not fantastic), I've got mixed feelings.

There's a bit of me saying "Good! No really good people to lose to in the poules and bugger up my seedings", but then I realised that even if I came through the poule without dropping a hit, I'd then still be placed 17th, after the lazy swines who've been sitting about all mroning.

The other part of me is saying "Nah, keep 'em in so's I can beat them!" - I'm no longer a muppet, and I've run enough "really good" people close that I'm looking for scalps.

I want the top 16 in - then I can try to beat them in the poules. :-)

aao
-8th May 2003, 10:31
you see its exactly that kind of irrevrant attitutude which casuses such problems! ;)

Sheesh we've been over this in a different topic, if you come across a fencer with go faster international stripes then please give up immediately and let him/her win comfortably,

'think not what a high seed can do for you, think of what you can do for a high seed'

haggis
-8th May 2003, 10:37
I'd forgotten about Essex doing that! Was offered the bye a couple of times, took it once but not the other time. Particularly in epee the risk of running into someone who was totally up for it after the poules seemed too high and it seemed a long way to travel for a long lie and a maximum of half a dozen fights. Anyway epee seedings after the round always seem a bit of a mess. Take your bye and still get a horrible draw in the L32?

aao
-8th May 2003, 10:47
true but with the way epee seedings work don't take your bye and run into a seriously nasty fight in the 128/64 where somebody has been pissing around in the poules. I've tried it both ways round I've been the 1st seed and gone out in the 64 and been a seriously low seed and knocked one of the top seeds. Personally I'm all for not having to work till the 64 and if the top 16 have a bye I pretty confident of having not too nasty a fight till the last 16!

Laurence
-8th May 2003, 14:02
i think the score between me and weekes was 15-2. i think the word is in fact muppet. i like aao's thinking. svengali might be right, but he is overlooking the big picture, i can't be bothered to come in early just to fight 6 easy poule fights. and, no i don't think i have learned much from the poule fights in opens, cos i don't bother to fence hard and just try to take the piss as much as possible.

rory
-8th May 2003, 14:10
Hey guys... should we start a poll?
Is Laurence being
[list=a]
Really amusing
A bit cocky
Incredibly arrogant
Ironic
[/list=a]


(no offence Laurence! my sarcasm filter's just set a bit high today)

Laurence
-8th May 2003, 14:14
i don't think there would be many surprised faces around if the poll brought about a winning answer of 'incredibly arrogant', have you not heard of the famous salle paul spirit. or in fact the salle paul mafia?hehe

haggis
-8th May 2003, 14:55
Bloody hell, Laurence. What are you doing awake so early in the day?!?!

Aoife
-10th May 2003, 17:07
Frankly, I would rather have a poule full of top 10 fencers who all beat me 5-0 than a poule with fencers of my own level. I learn more.

I agree with Arturo there.





There's a bit of me saying "Good! No really good people to lose to in the poules and bugger up my seedings", but then I realised that even if I came through the poule without dropping a hit, I'd then still be placed 17th, after the lazy swines who've been sitting about all morning


And I agree with rory here.


I'd prefer them to be in. Why shouldn't they if they're just to lazy to turn up early?

Moose
-10th May 2003, 18:13
Maybe there is some kind of correllation between high seeded fencers, alcholol consumption the night before, and getting up early.

My theory is that high ranked fencers feel that they can tolerate more alcohol than us mere mortals, the result of this being that they wake up feeling far worse for wear than the other fencers. Now to compensate for the loss of their fencing abilty, due to inexplicable urge to foul one's mask, they are allowed to skip the poule stage where they would otherwise be torn apart by less experienced, but more sober fencers. The end result being that they only have to fence their own, hungover, kind. Thusly they are gentler with one another than a poule fencer would be.

This theorum also goes some way to demonstrating why fencers who win poules can sometimes go on to win the tournament, as the seeded fencers are ill prepared (excuse the pun) to deal with those who don't conform etiquette of the hungover fencers, that is to say that they dont roll over and play dead.

QED

:grin:

aao
-11th May 2003, 12:18
Darn it the truth is out ;)

Alas many of the high seeded kind are thrown to the less than tender mercies of sober poulites. where generally a nasty mauling occurs due to their inability to move rapidly or focus on just one opponent. This is particularily true in epee where shorn of the typical high ranking fencer defence of 'right of way' even the greenest begginer feels that they can 'have a go' and the top seed.

Proof of the above activities can be found by looking at the seedings after the poules and seeing how many of the top fencers are seeded outside the top 50. The top fencers only hope at this stage is that sobriety will kick in soon or that their opponent will be so overawed and dismayed at having drawn such a nasty draw they will ritually sacrifice themselves on the fencers blade.

Unfortunatley many a fine fencer comes a cropper at this point and ends up mumbling at how the competition wasn't important anyway and oh well at least they have a fiendishly difficult A-grade the following week to recover their lost points from

Aoife
-11th May 2003, 12:51
aao and Moose. I do believe you've hit the answer there!

It's all so much clearer for me now (though, obviously not for the high, drunker, fencers :) )

Moose
-11th May 2003, 15:52
Well, what can I say, when you see your team captain losing his stomach on the piste at Excalibur you KNOW there is something going on.

Jambo
-11th May 2003, 17:02
Originally posted by aao
you see its exactly that kind of irrevrant attitutude which casuses such problems! ;)

Sheesh we've been over this in a different topic, if you come across a fencer with go faster international stripes then please give up immediately and let him/her win comfortably,

'think not what a high seed can do for you, think of what you can do for a high seed'

I really really hope thats a joke. As a worse fencer its your duty to give any flashy bugger in go fasters a shock at least once!

Moose
-11th May 2003, 19:13
Without wishing to steal aao's thunder: I would imagine that it is intended to be read with tongue most firmly in cheek.

DonnCarnage
-11th May 2003, 19:54
If u were all world class winners*, then maybe yes, u are good enough to have a L16 bye.

But seeing that you are British, then NO.
Sorry Laurance.:tongue:

DC:pirate:

*maybe with the exception of Beevers and Kruse

aao
-11th May 2003, 23:56
Originally posted by Jambo
I really really hope thats a joke. As a worse fencer its your duty to give any flashy bugger in go fasters a shock at least once!

much as I wish it wasn't, last time I checked nobody had given up in terror at the prospect of having to fence me :( (well with the possible exception of my coach!) you can rest assured that every little bugger who gets on the piste seems hell bent on giving me a shock :dizzy: (although exactly how shoched you feel about having lost a fight when you're having trouble standing up and focusing is a matter open to debate ;) )

Laurence
-12th May 2003, 00:35
you may well be right donncarnage, richard and james aren't very close to being in the top 16 either. but we're working hard at it and getting closer all the time. i think we need all the experience we can get of being a top 16 fencer with priviliges as it won't be long now.
logical and precise i think.

randomsabreur
-14th May 2003, 12:30
The biggest problem for the rest of us would be that being top after the poules would be nastier if you fancied your chances of getting beyond the 16. Horribly arbitrary cut off wherever you put it. No 17 seed wins poule, drops 1 hit in the pool (has been done) Knows that will should get no 1 in L16. Not nice! Incentive to drop a few hits and get to ? 24th ish if you fancy you chances of a L8.

Also, potential lack of variety of opponents for those with a bye.

Not good training, or fun if you always fence the same person and lose several competitions running!

DonnCarnage
-19th May 2003, 21:52
reply the random saberuer's got it right

DC:pirate:

Ralph
-31st May 2003, 00:15
I was disgusted to see the arrogant attitudes of Laurence Halsted and his cronies at last years Essex Open - wearing Lame Jackets with “Salle Paul mafia” printed on. They have to remember that it may be easy enough for them to produce a last 8 (or better) result in a British open, but for others it is not so easy. There is no sportsmanship in doing what clearly is illegal and yes even you are not above the rules Laurence just because it’s “British” fencing. Now you are going on about an elitist system whereby the top 16 receive byes to the L.64. I believe you are just trying to provoke a reaction among us non elite fencers but old system in Essex is dated and is not how the game should be played today!!!

Moose
-31st May 2003, 05:38
Errrm, I don't know you, but its generally not considered polite to make your first post on a forum an all out attack on one of its members, such a thing is not only rude, but also rather childish. If you have a point to make then at least create something that resembles an arguable postion before you post it. Public forums are not the place for private grievance, if you have an issue and wish to make it public then you should at least have the decency to explain precisely what your grievance is.

Unless of course your a total muppet, in which case do continue to act like one :grin:

Ralph
-31st May 2003, 17:53
Yes I do apologise Mr Moose, if that is your real name, I suppose it was a little rude and after all the Salle Paul mafia boys were just a having a bit of a laugh in Essex. But where do you draw the line? I saw the similar bunch at Bristol open giggling and messing around because one of them had brought a walky-talky along and they were giving the competition organisers (who had walky-talkies to communicate with each other) the run around, for example announcing over the system that one of the pistes was faulty so they could watch one of the armourers rush out for no reason.. Also, they do not try hard in the pools (obviously I can not prove this, it just looks a little suspicious a top 16 fencer constantly coming back 2 and 4 after the first round!!!) so they intentionally mess up the seeding, which is ok for them because they are capable of taking out anyone good at any stage. All these stunts are of a joking nature and I suppose should just find them amusing, I’m just concerned that it is not helping our sport.

Moose
-31st May 2003, 17:56
Now you see thats better, you've explained a grievance rather than simply gone off on a flame fest. I dont condone these kind of actions, my point was that you were just being a little rude...

Cheetara
-31st May 2003, 18:06
Also, they do not try hard in the pools (obviously I can not prove this, it just looks a little suspicious a top 16 fencer constantly coming back 2 and 4 after the first round!!!)


Poule fights are different to DE fights so i'm not sure this is too suss.

But most of this thread does seem pretty arrogant on the part of certain posters though.

I do agree with random sabruer though. There are some seeding you really don't want after the poule. 17 being one of them.

Hudson
-31st May 2003, 18:07
or in my case 33 or 65

Cheetara
-31st May 2003, 18:12
One of the good things about Women's sabre you get higher placings :grin:

Moose
-31st May 2003, 18:14
Lol, maybe I should stick a chest protecter in and enter womens sabre :grin:

Hudson
-31st May 2003, 18:15
thought thats what you did antway moosett

Moose
-31st May 2003, 18:17
shhhhhhhhhhhhh that was supposed to be a one night thing and you promised never to talk about it.... you called me your special mooseykins :(

Hudson
-31st May 2003, 18:19
i'm sorry i've meet another who's coat was slikier

Moose
-31st May 2003, 18:22
Oh no! I can't feel my toes. <Looks down and yelps.> I don't have any toes! <Sits down.> I need a hug.

Hudson
-31st May 2003, 18:23
poor moose.

Moose
-31st May 2003, 18:24
*Sniff* <looks around for someone who'll give him a hug>

Hudson
-31st May 2003, 18:26
<looks in vain as nobody cares>

Cheetara
-31st May 2003, 18:28
I care, I need a hug too. I've come home for the weekend and my whole family's gone away and left me

Moose
-31st May 2003, 18:29
<hugs Cheetara for mutal support>

Hudson
-31st May 2003, 18:30
there you go moose.

Laurence is going to hate what we've done to his thread. oh well

Cheetara
-31st May 2003, 18:30
<hugs moose back>

Cheetara
-31st May 2003, 18:32
I think Laurence might just deserve it for saying nasty things about people who lose to people they shouldn't lose to

Hudson
-31st May 2003, 18:34
well he's going to have alot of posts to read whatever.

Rdb811
-31st May 2003, 23:03
For the umpteenth time - it's sabreur.

Laurence
-1st June 2003, 04:29
muppets

Hudson
-1st June 2003, 09:22
hi Laurence


hows the sun down under???:grin:

Rdb811
-1st June 2003, 11:21
Originally posted by Laurence
muppets

What - you've picked up a nasty dose of thm in Oz ?

Hudson
-1st June 2003, 15:35
sounds contaguss, best stay over there tillit's cleared up.

Cheetara
-1st June 2003, 20:38
We're over here too :grin:

Moose
-2nd June 2003, 05:23
Lawrence, we aren't muppets, muppents are cute and loveable, we arent.

Hudson
-2nd June 2003, 07:34
Originally posted by Moose
Lawrence, we aren't muppets, muppents are cute and loveable, we arent.

i am, just ask anyone that knows me

(i'll slip you £20 later Esther if you back me up)

Cheetara
-2nd June 2003, 09:27
I am too, ask Mantis, or at least I think he'll agree

Moose
-2nd June 2003, 12:05
Bout as cute as a baby crocodile, its all run and games until someone loses an arm.

Rhubarb
-5th June 2003, 16:05
I dont know why Laurence bothers getting up anyway. If the whole idea of fencing fellow members of the BFA is so boring he should stay at home polishing all his world championship and olympic medals......... or did I miss something then!?:moon: