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uk_45
-23rd April 2004, 16:34
Barry can we be expecting a new set of jackets and breeches called the "Athens kit" as we have Atlanta and Sydney?

Barry Paul
-24th April 2004, 11:36
Certainly an Athens lightweight plastron with added feactures.

We might come out with an Athens range next year. Barry Paul

reposte
-24th April 2004, 12:31
I've always been curious why do you take so much bother with coming up lightweight products for items of clothing which are already very light weight and might deter fencers with their prices, rendering it too much of an expense for such a slight difference in weight?

Why not invest in more palpable differences to existing products like better blades, different types of designs for the mask, spice up the "look" department for fencing clothes etc. ?

Threestain
-24th April 2004, 12:46
Probably because there is a great demand for lighter weight clothing - dries more quickly, feels better, not as cumbersome, more supple. Also because the other manufacturers do it so you have to compete or else you might get left behind.

I would say its one of the most palpable differences - blades are all essentially the same (except for leon paul's rolled steel? design). Masks are limited by their very nature.

Bear in mind that many of these palpable innovations are dependant on the FIE for approval. For example the Adidas stripes might have 'spiced' up the look, but have been banned.

reposte
-24th April 2004, 13:19
How more lightweight can you get when it comes to a lame jacket?

And it is because all blades are the same that an effort towards cheap durable blades is much more to the relief of the fencer then any other item I should think.

Masks aren't that limited in shape...

Let's face it, don't you all get the feeling that you get pretty crappy stuff for a lot of money paid? I'm not talking about LP stuff cause I have no experience with it, but all fencers have reached that conclusion I think regardless of which brand they use.

nirvana
-24th April 2004, 13:40
Kit these days is practily the same, but at least LP r trying to be dirfferent. With counter fit etc

nirvana
-24th April 2004, 13:42
oh and what r these new changes for the light weight under plastron going to be?

Barry Paul
-24th April 2004, 13:49
Lame jackets are not likely to get much lighter otherwise they will not be strong enough.

However the search for lightness, comfort and good design is part of our stratergy to improve the top end products.

Helping the users perform better. Lightweight, climate control in clothing is obvious, less fatigue, comfort and ease of use. In weapons accelleration is proportional to the force x weight. The less the weight the faster you can move your weapon. (for all the expert fencers that talk about weight in the hand and balance I am afraid they just have it wrong, but that arguement is for another day)

As in the long term we cannot compete on price with the developing countries, but we can on inovation design and development. Like all such developments it eventually improves the stardard kit.

Barry Paul

Threestain
-24th April 2004, 13:51
but then again how different can kit be? Much like cricket kit - all essentially the same. And besides how much further can blade technology advance? Blades are never going to be that cheap as there isn't the demand for them to be made in the amounts required for them to be that cheap - the steel used isn't exactly that expensive and I'm pretty sure that steel science is pretty advanced these days.

Neo
-24th April 2004, 14:24
I only have lighweight stuff - lets face it, £20 difference on a lame isn't exactly a big deal. I would also pay more for blades for something innovative (I use GB Pro's atm, so when I say more I mean *more* :P)

Barry Paul
-24th April 2004, 14:33
Don't be so sure, recent experiments with surface treatment of our etoile blades, gave such an improved result that on testing with our official F.I.E. test rig it passed the 18,000 cycle test ie. we could get them F.I.E. approved. Barry Paul

Neo
-24th April 2004, 14:42
I just find GB Pro's feel lovely to fence with, so I'm happy to pay the difference (or rather I'm happy to get my parents to pay the difference :P). On a side note, should tip tape go from the point down or from the end of the tip to point or does it matter?

Threestain
-24th April 2004, 14:52
That is interesting Barry - are you going to go for FIE approval? Would surely lead to a general reduction in price and also a rise in quality (of foreign blades) as they are forced to compete. Sounds good to me.

gbm
-24th April 2004, 14:59
Leon Paul still manage to be quite innovative. And there are differences in kit, and many manufacturers that don't really really think their kit through...
Like two-prongs and bayonets. And Leon Paul three-pin sockets are better due to the angulation (at least until they snap!) as opposed to those silly pin spreaders. And the Golubitsky Pro (which is so cool...). And Contour-Fit. And the X-Change system. And the design of the Vision 2000 shows good thinking and design. And I hear the lames on sabre masks always wear out; room for improvement there. Fabrics can still improve; sweat migration technologies that cool you and things. Certainly there is still a long way to go with reliability in some things; spools and swords in particular (although LP is quite good in this regard).
Tolerances in machining point parts can always improve. Probably wireless equipment will replace spools before there is any great innovation with them, and then there will be plenty of work for the manufacturers! (are LP looking at any wireless systems?).

PS when it comes to balance, I'm not sure if it has an effect with french grips (would it work without a pommel ask LP? result: the carbon fibre grip), but I can't imagine it has any effect with pistol grips (since the balance point is in front of your hand anyway).

PPS Carbon steel blades are alright, but I find they quickly tend to get funny kinks and bends.

PPPS I tape from the top of the point downwards so I can be sure I'm right up to (but not over) the end of the point. I assume you realise that you should use two different tapes - a PVC insulation tape around the tip, and a cloth tape to 15cm from the base of the point, which is stretched along the blade lengthways and then around?

PPPPS Golubitsky's are only a little bit more than LP maragings, and cheaper than Flickmasters, aren't they?

PPPPPS If Paul Etoiles could get FIE approval, what about Paul Frances?

Neo
-24th April 2004, 15:12
I know, just got both this morning. I've done the tip tape already, its just the point. I did it the other way round (tip downwards) so I could make sure I didn't get any overlapping at the end (which was problem when I last put tape on in a rush a competition).

as to price, yes they're about £85 - between flickmasters and maraging (want a flickmaster next! but gotta get full FIE kit and full sabre stuff first :S)

ps. I noticed on GFC's site that a golubitsky grip is due - when's that available? (says march on their site, but can't see any on LP site)

uk_45
-24th April 2004, 18:23
Barry and chance of a sabre lamé that doesn't trap sweet?? Ie is wicking.

gbm
-24th April 2004, 18:50
I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you just said. :)

Neo
-24th April 2004, 18:52
I think he means that doesn't trap moisture

uk_45
-24th April 2004, 18:53
Ok it should have said a lamé that doesnt trap sweat as electric sabre gets very hot and sticky in the summer. Sorry i'm half asleep here!

Steve
-24th April 2004, 20:45
I'm on my second flickmaster... nice:)

symon
-25th April 2004, 20:14
just been having a flick around some of the international fencing sites and have noticed Blue Gauntlet make an Athens Uniform!!!!!!!!!

gbm
-25th April 2004, 20:17
Let's just hope Leon Paul make a London uniform some day...

uk_45
-25th April 2004, 20:49
I'll go woth that!!

gbm
-25th April 2004, 21:00
Of course it will probably be 2000N kit by then...

J_D
-26th April 2004, 10:27
Originally posted by Neo
I just find GB Pro's feel lovely to fence with, so I'm happy to pay the difference (or rather I'm happy to get my parents to pay the difference :P). On a side note, should tip tape go from the point down or from the end of the tip to point or does it matter?

And for those of us who have to pay for our own kit or haven't got rich mummies and daddies to support our demands for the latest thing?

Neo
-26th April 2004, 18:05
actually having said that, my first GB Pro was a present from my (now ex) gf

gbm
-26th April 2004, 20:08
I used non-maraging blades until recently, and I think the Golubitsky-Pro is good value for money considering what it puts up with.

J_D
-26th April 2004, 22:08
On that note I used to use Paul France blades until I found they were only lasting me about 3 weeks, now I usually get 9 months to a year out of the Paul maraging blade, better value for money even if the initial outlay is higher.

gbm
-26th April 2004, 22:14
I found that the Paul Frances would last for a few years (with only two nights a week then), but quite soon after getting them they had bent inelastically i.e. they had funny bends and kinks in them. And you had to keep straightening them out after every hit. Whereas with my new (ram-rod straight) Golubitsky (with reinforced forte, which helps even more), I can hit someone in the chest, have the blade bend horribly the wrong way, and still it goes dead straight afterwards without having to rebend it.

devalleassoc
-27th April 2004, 05:02
Originally posted by Neo
actually having said that, my first GB Pro was a present from my (now ex) gf


Really? How nice, you should'nt have dumped her.