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Keith.A.Smith
-12th July 2014, 13:25
Good luck to the GB team competing at the Kazan World Championships.

Best wishes and fence well.

I hope results can be posted here. The competition starts on Tuesday.

Keith

gethylogic
-13th July 2014, 15:58
Have to second what you've just said Keith while I've just had a quick glance on the Eurosport schedule. They're showing live coverage on Eurosport 2 from quarter to five to half five in the afternoon while a highlights program will be at 11:15 at night on Eurosport 1. They also have something on Saturday morning on Eurosport 1 at 7:30am and Sunday night at 11pm. While on Monday the 21st they're showing live coverage from 4:15 to 5:45 in the afternoon on Eurosport 1.

More information can be found here: http://tv.eurosport.co.uk/tvschedule.shtml

gethylogic
-13th July 2014, 16:18
Quick correction; they're showing the first part of the coverage on Friday.

Keith.A.Smith
-13th July 2014, 19:39
Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday are the preliminaries this year. The latter stages start on Friday. The FIE has decided to showcase the top 32 in each weapon.

Good luck to our fencers.

Keith

Keith.A.Smith
-13th July 2014, 19:41
Correction the top 64 of each weapon as in previous years.

JohnL
-14th July 2014, 13:48
Does anyone know if the FIE will be running a live feed on the Internet??

Gav
-14th July 2014, 15:58
Does anyone know if the FIE will be running a live feed on the Internet??

Hard to imagine that it won't. Keep an eye on here: https://www.youtube.com/user/FIEvideo

Keith.A.Smith
-14th July 2014, 20:45
Looking at the FIE site we should know who has made the top 64 in MS by about 4pm Kazan time tomorrow.( no WS entries by GB).

JohnL
-14th July 2014, 21:28
http://www.fencingworldwide.com/en/

Found the above link on the US Fencing site

flyboy
-14th July 2014, 22:14
I am relatively new to this forum, and only slightly familiar with international events and their structure, but I have a question which maybe the more experienced among you might be able to answer. I note that we have four entries in the men's foil, but only one in the women's foil. I know that we have done very well in recent times in men's events, with JD winning the European championships and RK getting great results too, but why can't we at least have our full quota of four competitors in the women's event, as many other nations seem to have? Is it (i) we are ashamed that they would do too badly (ii) there is a qualifying yardstick set by FIE that only NS can achieve (iii) lack of money (iv) lack of interest (v) Kazan being too far away or (vi) several or maybe all of these?

Apologies if my question sounds basic, but I really don't know and would be interested to find out...

munkey
-14th July 2014, 23:54
Given my history of comment on GB selection policy in the past, I'll restrict myself to providing a link to senior selection policy 2013/14. It's not exactly a thrilling read but mostly answers your question, flyboy.

http://www.britishfencing.com/uploads/files/senior_selection_policy_2013_2014_-_final.pdf

hokers
-15th July 2014, 11:41
Given my history of comment on GB selection policy in the past, I'll restrict myself to providing a link to senior selection policy 2013/14. It's not exactly a thrilling read but mostly answers your question, flyboy.

http://www.britishfencing.com/uploads/files/senior_selection_policy_2013_2014_-_final.pdf

Again, despite the temptation to dive in with both boots on, I'd say there's a wider problem in most weapons where there aren't enough fencers who want to take up the option of international places to fill our quota. Have a look at the stats on here:
http://www.fencingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?18375-GBR-International-participation-numbers-2012-2013-season

Mike Selig
-15th July 2014, 11:58
Very good start from the male sabreurs.

Honeybone 5V 0D ranked 24th, bye into L64. If my calculations are correct he fences winner of ABEDINI (Iran) and SMANDI (Tun) in L64.

Miller 4V 2D ranked 48th fences QUINTERO (Ven) for place in L64

Aiyenuro 4V 2D ranked 54th fences VU (Vietnam) for place in L64

Crutchett 3V 2D ranked 59th fences Szatmari (Hun) for place in L64.

Hardish draws all around, v tough for Crutchett. Honeybone if he wins his 64 will likely face Montano in the L32.

Go get em guys.

Double Riposte
-15th July 2014, 12:33
Miller loses to Quintero 15-10

Double Riposte
-15th July 2014, 12:48
Aiyenuro loses to Vu, 15-2

Crutchett loses to Szatmari, 15-9

Only James through to the L64.

JohnL
-15th July 2014, 13:11
Just saw the results.

Hey, come on guys, I'm 5 hours behind you!!

I think the guys will be a bit disappointed to not get 2 into the L64. They all performed well in the poules giving each of them a good seed and a chance of getting through. Some tough matches so hope they don't get too down on themselves.

Well done James for a storming poule and straight through to the L64.

Best of luck in the next DE's

hokers
-15th July 2014, 14:33
Very good poule results from the Brits, unfortunate they couldn't all convert, good luck to James in L64.

For the record:
James VVVVV +12
Soji V1VV2V +4
Curtis 4VVV1V +7
Alex V14VV +6

Spider5
-15th July 2014, 14:36
Vamos Hames Honeybone!

JohnL
-15th July 2014, 18:05
JH gets Abedini

WR about 30 above James, but got a boatload of points from the Asiatic champs but otherwise a L64 performer.

I say, James takes him apart!!!

Keith.A.Smith
-15th July 2014, 18:18
Well done to James. Good luck for the 64.

Good luck WF and MF tomorrow.

munkey
-16th July 2014, 09:48
Good start from Natalia Sheppard 5v1d in WF poules. Straight into L64 where she'll fence Nicole Ross (USA) on Saturday.

Peter Pan
-16th July 2014, 10:10
Good start from Natalia Sheppard 5v1d in WF poules. Straight into L64 where she'll fence Nicole Ross (USA) on Saturday.

Arithmetic letting you down there Munkey! She fences JESZENSZKY Szilvia (Hun)

munkey
-16th July 2014, 10:14
Arithmetic letting you down there Munkey! She fences JESZENSZKY Szilvia (Hun)

Oops! My arithmetic usually much better. Honest!

Double Riposte
-16th July 2014, 12:52
MF:

Davis bye to L64

Tofalides 3v 3d ranks 74th
Kruse 5v 1d ranks 27th
Mepstead 3v 3d ranks 67th

I think Richard gets a bye to L64 after that.

munkey
-16th July 2014, 13:13
You've jumped the gun there, double riposte. There was still one set of poule results to come in.

Kruse 27th
Mepstead 70th
Tofalides 78th

The on-form team in the poules was undoubtedly Hong Kong. They only dropped 2 fights between the four of them!

JohnL
-16th July 2014, 13:19
All got pretty good results in the poules.

JD automatic into L64 - 1st big seed he fights (providing he wins early fights) would be Aspromonte in the L16

RK direct through to L64 - 1st big seed would be Chamley-Watson in the L32.

Tof has Perez (Ven) in the L96 - WR 132
Mep has Santos (Por) in the L96 - WR 358

Looking forward to Tof and Mep doing the business and all 4 Brits in the L64.
:)

JohnL
-16th July 2014, 13:20
You've jumped the gun there, double riposte. There was still one set of poule results to come in.

Kruse 27th
Mepstead 70th
Tofalides 78th

The on-form team in the poules was undoubtedly Hong Kong. They only dropped 2 fights between the four of them!

Agreed

I saw the poule results and thought of sending a note to the FIE suggesting the entire team be drug tested!!!

munkey
-16th July 2014, 13:24
Richard goes straight through to L64. Marcus and Alex get byes into second preliminary DE where Marcus fences Santos of Portugal and Alex gets Perez of Venezuela. David Alexander, fencing for Ireland, faces Sritang Orn of Thailand in the first round of preliminary DEs.

JohnL
-16th July 2014, 14:04
No L64 fight is going to be easy, but I'm hoping Tof/Mep avoid the bottom 1/4 of the draw.

The direct seeds in were Ma and Massialas, and then Avola, Le Pechoux, Simon, Ota and Choupenich joined them.

OUCH!!!!

Double Riposte
-16th July 2014, 14:12
You've jumped the gun there, double riposte. There was still one set of poule results to come in.

Kruse 27th
Mepstead 70th
Tofalides 78th

The on-form team in the poules was undoubtedly Hong Kong. They only dropped 2 fights between the four of them!

Ahh, apologies.

Re the Hong Kong team, spent a little bit of time fencing with the top 6/7 foilists in HK a year or so back (purely out of chance), and was very impressed with the whole set-up and their absolute total commitment to fencing at such a young age. Unforutnately they were known to me by their 'English names' so I've no idea which of them are at the Worlds and performing so well!

munkey
-16th July 2014, 14:22
Disco Date Alexander into the 2nd round of DE with a 15-9 win. Now faces Chen of China.

JohnL
-16th July 2014, 14:44
Looks like Tof lost 15-14
:(

Double Riposte
-16th July 2014, 14:46
Looks like Tof lost 15-14
:(

Yep, was up at the break but then went 13-9 down, managed to pull it back to 14-14 but not quite enough. Fingers crossed for Marcus now!

Keith.A.Smith
-16th July 2014, 15:26
Any news on Marcus?

Mike Selig
-16th July 2014, 15:46
Marcus through 15-7.

The bottom L16 looks tasty: Ma, Avola, Ota and Le Pechoux!

Davis's draw does look workable to me. Likes of Aspro and Lefort while obviously very very good can be a bit hold and cold.

Kruse has a tough draw (Bachman, then probably Chamley-Watson, then possibly Baldini), but you never know.

Keith.A.Smith
-16th July 2014, 16:10
Well done to Marcus.

So far into 64

1 x MS
1 x WF
3 x MF

Good luck to Corinna and WE for tomorrow.

Keith

Fleetfoot
-16th July 2014, 21:47
Having real trouble finding the rankings, the tableau on men's foil on Kazan website.
Please could someone post the link?
Thanks much.

JohnL
-16th July 2014, 22:34
Having real trouble finding the rankings, the tableau on men's foil on Kazan website.
Please could someone post the link?
Thanks much.

http://www.fencingworldwide.com/en/

breckenridge
-17th July 2014, 02:30
Marcus through 15-7.

The bottom L16 looks tasty: Ma, Avola, Ota and Le Pechoux!

Davis's draw does look workable to me. Likes of Aspro and Lefort while obviously very very good can be a bit hold and cold.

Kruse has a tough draw (Bachman, then probably Chamley-Watson, then possibly Baldini), but you never know.

David Alexander lost to Chen of China, but his Irish teammate Brendan Cusack edged Strachkynskyy of Ukraine 15-14 to reach the 64.

cesh_fencing
-17th July 2014, 08:23
Corinna wins 3 in 1st round, ranked 66 out of 132

Bye through 1st prelim round and has Gudkova, Rus (World 35) in 2nd DE round to get into L64

rake
-17th July 2014, 09:55
Corinna ahead 5-3 going into the first break :D

Keith.A.Smith
-17th July 2014, 09:55
Any news on how Corinna did in DE? Is she in to 64?

rake
-17th July 2014, 10:00
Through 15-8 :) Cracking result. Not sure who she'll fence on Sunday but best of luck!

Keith.A.Smith
-17th July 2014, 10:03
Corinna wins.

6 GB fencers into their respective top 64 tableaux.

MS 1
WF1
WE 1
MF 3

Good luck to all of them and here's hoping for a really good result.

munkey
-17th July 2014, 12:21
Corinna fences Candassamy of France in the 64.

JohnL
-17th July 2014, 13:15
Excellent win to get into the L64

Now it's scalp taking time!!

Double Riposte
-17th July 2014, 15:37
Well done to Corinna, and great to have 6 into the L64 - surely an improvement on the last couple of years?

Good luck to all!

JackSparrow
-17th July 2014, 17:27
Well done to Corinna, and great to have 6 into the L64 - surely an improvement on the last couple of years?

Good luck to all!

Last year we had five (2 MS, 1WF and 2 MF), in the last 64.

hokers
-17th July 2014, 17:32
Well done to Corinna, and great to have 6 into the L64 - surely an improvement on the last couple of years?


2013 2xL64(MS) 1xL64(WF) 1xL32 1xL64(MF) Total 1xL32 4xL64
2012 was team only for non-olympic team events
2011 1xL64(MS), 3xL64(WF), 4xL64(WS), 1x32 3x64(MF) 1xL16 1xL64(WE) Total 1xL16, 1xL32, 12xL64
2010 1xL64(MS), 4xL64(MF), 2xL32 2xL64(WS), 1xL32 2xL64(WF), 1xL64(ME) Total 3xL32, 9xL64

So not really better unless you compare with last year.

But I have high hopes for them all to progress further from tomorrow!

Keith.A.Smith
-17th July 2014, 19:49
2013 2xL64(MS) 1xL64(WF) 1xL32 1xL64(MF) Total 1xL32 4xL64
2012 was team only for non-olympic team events
2011 1xL64(MS), 3xL64(WF), 4xL64(WS), 1x32 3x64(MF) 1xL16 1xL64(WE) Total 1xL16, 1xL32, 12xL64
2010 1xL64(MS), 4xL64(MF), 2xL32 2xL64(WS), 1xL32 2xL64(WF), 1xL64(ME) Total 3xL32, 9xL64

So not really better unless you compare with last year.

But I have high hopes for them all to progress further from tomorrow!

Results not yet back to the best, but we have 6 fencers in the 64 and I think we can hope for some top 32 results and better over the next three days.

The UKS target is a top 16 in the individual and I think we will get that.

Good luck for the next three days of individuals.

hokers
-17th July 2014, 20:24
Results not yet back to the best, but we have 6 fencers in the 64 and I think we can hope for some top 32 results and better over the next three days.

The UKS target is a top 16 in the individual and I think we will get that.

Good luck for the next three days of individuals.

I agree, I was really commenting about breadth. Certainly didn't have a European champion and a WCG champion going into previous Worlds.

Adam Blight
-17th July 2014, 21:07
I've been over here in Kazan with David Alexander and the Irish contingent. For David, the pool went as planed except for one crucial bout with Gomez MEX which came out 5-3 when we needed a win to get a 0.6 rather than a 0.4 first indicator (being one of the 2 pools of 6). First D.E., Nuanphlap THA had been training with Dave all week in the camp, and Dave had lost twice 15-14 to him in the camp so it was a good win. Beating Chen CHN to make the 64 proved too much of a chalenge and he lost 15-7. We are disappointed not to get the 64, it was there to be taken, without that loss to Gomez I think we would have had it. Brenden Cusack fenced outstandingly to beat Syrachynskyy UKR to make the 64 (even having to be physically sick and one point, only being able to find his own bag as a receptical). I have to try and help Brenden in his match against Chermisinov on Saturday, presumably with Cerioni in support. We'll definitely give it our best shot.

Double Riposte
-17th July 2014, 21:36
2013 2xL64(MS) 1xL64(WF) 1xL32 1xL64(MF) Total 1xL32 4xL64
2012 was team only for non-olympic team events
2011 1xL64(MS), 3xL64(WF), 4xL64(WS), 1x32 3x64(MF) 1xL16 1xL64(WE) Total 1xL16, 1xL32, 12xL64
2010 1xL64(MS), 4xL64(MF), 2xL32 2xL64(WS), 1xL32 2xL64(WF), 1xL64(ME) Total 3xL32, 9xL64

So not really better unless you compare with last year.

But I have high hopes for them all to progress further from tomorrow!

Ahh of course. Those lofty days feel like an age ago, but here's hoping that it won't be too long until we are back at that level.

In fact this squad could easily match the numbers getting into the L32 in those previous years, so fingers crossed for some great results!

munkey
-17th July 2014, 22:46
FIE Video - the odd couple summarise each day of the preliminary rounds. The observation that Hong Kong had a good day in men's foil on day 2 seems vaguely familiar from somewhere...

http://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdNA_ybrJjfnbVjuhdLhtjIt7n0rrQnpY

hokers
-18th July 2014, 11:59
Men's Sabre L64 live now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms2VzR1vU2Q

Keith.A.Smith
-18th July 2014, 12:04
How is James doing?

hokers
-18th July 2014, 12:07
Not visible, but results say he lost 16-11 to the Iranian.

Spider5
-18th July 2014, 12:09
I saw on Ophardt that James lost 15-10

:-(

hokers
-18th July 2014, 14:23
Some good matches in L32 now. Szilagy vs Limbach was very good.

ChrisHeaps
-18th July 2014, 14:50
Opening ceremony starting within the hour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtoXm_ujhIw

I've heard a rumour that Kim Kardashian is going to mime the Tartastani national anthem and there is going to be a wardrobe malfunction due to non FIE compliant breeches.

:moon:

JohnL
-18th July 2014, 18:30
Saber world champions are Kovalev (Rus) and Kharlan (Ukr)

Good luck to our Men and Women Foilists tomorrow!!!!

gethylogic
-18th July 2014, 19:27
Are we sure Kharlan's Coach didn't train the Karate Kid? That was a remarkable recovery after her fall.

Keith.A.Smith
-18th July 2014, 20:33
64 results will all be known by 8.30 our time. Fingers crossed.

munkey
-19th July 2014, 07:03
Natalia wins 15-4. Fences Boubakri of Tunisia in L32.

Fleetfoot
-19th July 2014, 08:17
Looks like men's foil is underway in the last 64.

Is there a live feed anywhere?

The youtube channel seems to he historic.
Thanks.

Fleetfoot
-19th July 2014, 08:26
Looks like James has beaten Austrian Poscharnig 15-11.
Marcus has gone out to Choupenitch.
Richard still to fight.

Keith.A.Smith
-19th July 2014, 08:56
Richard lost. Good luck to Natalia and James in the 32 fights.

cesh_fencing
-19th July 2014, 10:09
Natalia out 15-4.

JohnL
-19th July 2014, 10:13
Both baldini and aspromote out in the L64

Shows how tough this round is.

Anyone found a live feed?

Mike Selig
-19th July 2014, 10:19
The FIE youtube stream works for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KBfaAuDTK8 (it may go offline when they switch back to men's foil, in which case the best algorithm is to go to youtube.com/user/FIEvideo and access the live stream from there).

Good to see Natalia get into the L32.

Aspro's loss opens it up that bit more for Davis, although I have to say (based purely on results) Lei looks like he might be a handful. Still I guess when you're European champion you can take on anybody. :)

Mini Musketeer
-19th July 2014, 10:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KBfaAuDTK8 working for me

Keith.A.Smith
-19th July 2014, 13:02
James into the top 16. Equals results of James Beevers in 2005 and Richard Kruse in 2009.

Good luck for the top 16 fight.

Mike Selig
-19th July 2014, 13:02
Davis makes it through to the L16 with a tough 15-12 win over Perrier. Which incidentally achieves BFA's first target (individual L16) for these worlds (which is important from a funding perspective I guess).

James fences winner of Rajski (POL) and Byk (BLR) in last 16. Whilst there's obviously no easy fights at this stage, looking at the other fencers left in you couldn't have asked for much better.

Keith.A.Smith
-19th July 2014, 13:18
James gets Rajski of Poland, who won his 32 fight easily and quickly.

JohnL
-19th July 2014, 13:48
2 good wins for James.

They've switched to the 3rd fie link for the day. Anyone know where it is?

Csshearman
-19th July 2014, 13:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USdWSHFLv0I

Peter Pan
-19th July 2014, 13:57
2 good wins for James.

They've switched to the 3rd fie link for the day. Anyone know where it is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USdWSHFLv0I

Double Riposte
-19th July 2014, 14:34
James wins 15-10!

Into the L8, up against Lefort which will be tough.

Keith.A.Smith
-19th July 2014, 14:37
Well done James. Great win and into top 8. Now for our first medal at senior level since Hoskyns in 1965.

You can do it James. Good luck.

JohnL
-19th July 2014, 14:48
3 good wins from James to get into the L8

Well done!!

I have no doubt he and Ziemek will have a game plan for the next fight.

Interesting that both Bachman and Choupenitch who beat RK and MM respectively, while they might have seemed an easier draw compared to some of the higher ranked fencers, have both made it into the L8

Double Riposte
-19th July 2014, 15:33
Sadly not to be - Lefort was on absolute top form in that match.

Great performance to get into the top 8 though, well done James!

Cyranna's Father
-19th July 2014, 15:34
3 good wins from James to get into the L8

Well done!!

I have no doubt he and Ziemek will have a game plan for the next fight.

Interesting that both Bachman and Choupenitch who beat RK and MM respectively, while they might have seemed an easier draw compared to some of the higher ranked fencers, have both made it into the L8

JD gone to LeForte 5 : 15, a good run & nice try.

pigeonmeister
-19th July 2014, 15:40
Davis out 15-6. Looked very comfortable then lefort took him apart. The Frenchman fences at a distance that takes advantage of his physical attributes. He has this huge step forward and then his hand comes after- caught Davis trying his retreat counter, at which he excells, time and time again. Then Davis tried to come forward and lefort showed his distance skills are equally going backwards. Great game plan well executed. I watched him get absolutely smashed by the Italian team a year or so ago but he's a real handful now. Could go all the way. But not the best tactics or decision making by Davis in this match. He had a great chance for a medal today. L8 is brilliant, though. Onwards!

JohnL
-19th July 2014, 15:40
Looked like James had trouble assessing and dealing with leforts attacks.

L8 is a great result though!!

Well done to both James and Ziemek

Keith.A.Smith
-19th July 2014, 15:43
Well done to James on making the top 8 today. Well done too to Ziemek and James' training set up in the USA.

Good news for BFA too, as exceeds the UKS individual target.

Good luck to Corinna for tomorrow and the all important team events.

Spider5
-19th July 2014, 16:11
Very good result, well done to James.

cesh_fencing
-19th July 2014, 16:53
Complete domination of WF from the Italians as usual. None of them have lost a fight to a fencer from another country.

2 Italians in Final 2, 1 Bronze and one last 8 (losing to a teammate)..

Keith.A.Smith
-19th July 2014, 18:13
Second gold for Russia. Men's sabre and foil plus a bronze at MF and two bronzes at WS. Their hiring of Bauer and Cerioni was clearly good value for money.

munkey
-19th July 2014, 19:00
Second gold for Russia. Men's sabre and foil plus a bronze at MF and two bronzes at WS. Their hiring of Bauer and Cerioni was clearly good value for money.

I'm sure that when BF has a rumoured budget of half a million a year for 2 coaches salaries, we'll be hiring like that too!

Keith.A.Smith
-19th July 2014, 20:36
According to the FIE site James ends the season ranked 6th in the world. A great season for him.

Fleetfoot
-19th July 2014, 21:04
Thanks for the rankings info, Keith.

Excellent work by James and all those on the team supporting him.

Also good to have two in the last 64.

If Tofalides is disappointed to be out of the 64, I'd argue that he has had an outstanding season,
And that his victory over Peter Joppich earlier this year set out a marker for victories to come.

Reasons to be cheerful.

Purple Fencer
-20th July 2014, 04:10
Second gold for Russia. Men's sabre...

Oh man....that MS final was just brutal for Gu. I thought a gold medal bout couldn't get any more lopsided that MS at the 2012 O Games, but then THIS one came up..

Adam Blight
-20th July 2014, 09:35
A funny little moment from yesterdays Men's Foil semi with Ma and Safin. During the injury break when the ref made sure that Cerioni stayed in his box, Cerioni used his translator to shuttle messages between himself and Safin and the ref only picked up on this during the last minute of the injury break. Very cheeky.

rake
-20th July 2014, 10:16
Corinna Lawrence loses 15-10 to Marie-Florence Candassamy to finish 51st. A shame as she led narrowly at both breaks, but Candassamy pulled out a string of hits in the third period.

Keith.A.Smith
-20th July 2014, 12:37
MS team lost 45-44 to Spain in the 32. They seemed nicely in control
and then it slipped away.

I am sure they will be disappointed with this result, as they are clearly capable of top 16 team results and these will come next season and beyond.

Good luck to the MF team who have their 32 tomorrow.

Keith.A.Smith
-20th July 2014, 19:13
Now the individuals are over and the winners are all European and from the big fencing nations.

MF. Russia
MS Russia
ME France

WF Italy
WS Ukraine
WE Italy

Now for the team events.

rake
-20th July 2014, 19:32
Another quiet year from the Asian nations. Are China/Korea/Japan staying focussed on Olympic cycles or is something happening in Asian fencing? Compare five individual medals from four events in London with three medals from six events in Kazan this year.

Gav
-20th July 2014, 19:36
Gutted that Park didn't take gold, I was rooting for him.

Great fencing from the Italian to beat Heidemann for gold.

cesh_fencing
-20th July 2014, 19:42
MS team lost 45-44 to Spain in the 32. They seemed nicely in control
and then it slipped away.

I am sure they will be disappointed with this result, as they are clearly capable of top 16 team results and these will come next season and beyond.

Is a real shame as it would have been a great experience to have met the Koreans (3rd seeds) in the last 16, and if they had not succeeded then in the place fight offs.

Gav
-21st July 2014, 08:04
One question I've not seen anyone pose is how the community feels about the cheerleaders during the break?

coach carson
-21st July 2014, 09:51
USA put out Ukraine in the WS semi-final. Interesting choice of tactics from the Americans in putting Wozniak on last instead of Zagunis. And a very brave counter-time action on the final hit to win 45-44.

Keith.A.Smith
-21st July 2014, 10:02
France having a good day too, having beaten Hungary, Russia and Italy.

Keith.A.Smith
-21st July 2014, 10:04
Good to see our MF team safely into the top 16 tomorrow. Good luck for the match against Poland.

hokers
-21st July 2014, 10:35
Shame we have no WS individual or team entries. Was only a couple of years ago that we had plenty of strength in depth in this weapon.
Jojo, Chrystall and KK made a L8 in March 2013 by knocking out China, yet only a couple of individual L64 results this year.

JohnL
-21st July 2014, 13:30
One question I've not seen anyone pose is how the community feels about the cheerleaders during the break?

It's a dumb idea in sports here in the US.

In fencing, it's equally dumb!!

JohnL
-21st July 2014, 13:33
MS team lost 45-44 to Spain in the 32. They seemed nicely in control
and then it slipped away.

I am sure they will be disappointed with this result, as they are clearly capable of top 16 team results and these will come next season and beyond.

Good luck to the MF team who have their 32 tomorrow.

Spain's team fight higher than their ranking. In the next round they took Korea (3 seed) to within 3 hits)

The team will be disappointed but the more they hang with the big boys, the better they're going to get!

Well done guys.

JohnL
-21st July 2014, 14:11
Good to see our MF team safely into the top 16 tomorrow. Good luck for the match against Poland.

Looks like GB gave JD the day off. (Good idea) Get's Toff/Mep back into the run of things and if you can get through (against Thailand) without your highest ranked fencer, fine.

Poland used all 3 top ranked fencers in their prelim match.

GB/Poland is an interesting match up. Hope the guys do well.

Keith.A.Smith
-21st July 2014, 18:36
Good wins by USA and Germany in WS and MS team today. Surprisingly no medals for Russia in team sabre.

munkey
-21st July 2014, 19:30
Surprisingly no medals for Russia in team sabre.

Suddenly, Russian sabre a disaster. I blame the coach...

Keith.A.Smith
-21st July 2014, 19:54
Suddenly, Russian sabre a disaster. I blame the coach...

Hardly a disaster with a world champion and two bronzes, but they would have expected a medal today. Great win by Germany, who had been having a modest championships by their standards.

Keith.A.Smith
-22nd July 2014, 07:58
Very good news. MF team beat Poland 45-42 and progress to top 8.

The team last made top 8 in 2009 and 2010.

Well done.

cesh_fencing
-22nd July 2014, 08:22
Very good news. MF team beat Poland 45-42 and progress to top 8.

The team last made top 8 in 2009 and 2010.

Well done.

Italians next. The beat Brazil 45-28 in the L16..

Keith.A.Smith
-22nd July 2014, 08:26
Italy is a very tough match, but the GB team has achieved the UKS target of top 8, maintained their 8th seed and fenced well to make the top 8.

Good luck for the next 3 matches.

Gav
-22nd July 2014, 09:37
Watching the GB L8 at the moment. Everything feels strangely muted. Looks like a good one between China and USA.

hokers
-22nd July 2014, 11:06
Italians next. The beat Brazil 45-28 in the L16..

Doesn't seem to have been on the live feed for some reason, but GBR lose 32-45 to ITA in L8.

Keith.A.Smith
-22nd July 2014, 12:15
Any news on USA match? I cannot access Ophardt for some reason.

Gerrit
-22nd July 2014, 12:38
GBR lose to USA 40 : 45. Match seemed very close all the time and GBR leading for much of the match, well at least till the 7th relay when Imboden stretched it to a 5 point lead for USA. Well done though - excellent show.

Gerrit
-22nd July 2014, 12:48
GBR against Germany on red piste at present
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s0IvVQJE3nc

JohnL
-22nd July 2014, 14:02
Unfortunately the Feed went dead just as the last 3 fights of the Germany v GB fight was getting interesting.

Looking at the Poland result (Well done team) the score details (if correct on the site) were;

JD (-8)
RK (+13)
MM (+1)
Tof (-3)

A BIG thanks to RK for a stunning performance. In particular taking over the penultimate fight at 29 - 35 down, demolishing Rajski 9-0, and handing over to JD for the final fight at 38-35 up!!!

Making this last 8 was important for the team as achieving the goals set is significantly important in the funding.

Would have liked to see them get closer to the Italians. Hey, not many people get close to the Italians!!

Keith.A.Smith
-22nd July 2014, 14:39
GB coming 8th and maintaining their initial seeding was a great achievement today.

Well done to the team and keep it going all the way to Rio.

MF have exceeded their UKS targets and that has to be good news.

Congratulations to Ziemek on the performance of his fencers and to all the coaches of the GB team.

Now enjoy the summer break.

Vicomte_de_Bragelonne
-22nd July 2014, 15:04
Very good news. MF team beat Poland 45-42 and progress to top 8.

The team last made top 8 in 2009 and 2010.

Well done.

And also in 2013 in Budapest.

Despite finishing ahead of both Poland and Japan it looks like GB ranking will drop from 8 to 10 as both Poland & Japan scored more points than last year's WC and GB only matched last year's points so stay the same.

My reckoning:

8 Japan 197 pts
9 Poland 195 pts
10 GB 193 pts

Rudd
-22nd July 2014, 16:21
Talking of the Italians, they dominated Russia in the Bronze medal match.

JohnL
-22nd July 2014, 16:28
Talking of the Italians, they dominated Russia in the Bronze medal match.

That was what you call a dumping!!!!

Keith.A.Smith
-22nd July 2014, 17:17
And also in 2013 in Budapest.

Despite finishing ahead of both Poland and Japan it looks like GB ranking will drop from 8 to 10 as both Poland & Japan scored more points than last year's WC and GB only matched last year's points so stay the same.

My reckoning:

8 Japan 197 pts
9 Poland 195 pts
10 GB 193 pts

I had forgotten GB made top 8 in 2013. Good consistency and a bit tough it might actually see our world ranking drop.

Rudd
-22nd July 2014, 18:21
That was what you call a dumping!!!!
Maybe another one in the final. France 30-16 up against China.

cesh_fencing
-22nd July 2014, 18:44
45-25 to France. Huge win...

Keith.A.Smith
-22nd July 2014, 21:00
FIE end of season rankings are up. MF team ends season ranked 10th.

France is very clearly 1st.

Using Olympic Qualifications for the team events, GB is currently behind Germany as the best European nation. However, two full seasons to go. Egypt who are currently 11th would go as the best African team.

JohnL
-22nd July 2014, 21:27
The good part though is that they have 3 results at the beginning of the season where (if they make the L8) would improve their ranking.

Keith.A.Smith
-23rd July 2014, 08:02
John, I totally agree. I think the team has every possibility of improving their world ranking, as does the Men's Sabre team.

Double Riposte
-23rd July 2014, 12:27
John, I totally agree. I think the team has every possibility of improving their world ranking, as does the Men's Sabre team.

Indeed. It has been quite an inconsistent season for the MS guys but hopefully with the new funding kicking in, they can push on next year more consistently - there are certainly several teams in the top 16 of the rankings who our sabre guys definitely have the potential to be beating.

(MS team end the season ranked 17th)

hokers
-23rd July 2014, 13:31
Indeed. It has been quite an inconsistent season for the MS guys but hopefully with the new funding kicking in, they can push on next year more consistently - there are certainly several teams in the top 16 of the rankings who our sabre guys definitely have the potential to be beating.

(MS team end the season ranked 17th)

Hopefully a new national sabre coach will be in place by then as well.

ChrisHeaps
-23rd July 2014, 15:49
Great bronze match between Swiss and Russia men's team epee, very exciting finish.

Mike Selig
-23rd July 2014, 18:27
France win the men's team épée with a wonderful show of controlled attacking fencing in the final (45-39 over Korea). France world champions in men's team épée - does that mean the world is back to normal?

It's been a good worlds for the French. Good to see Grumier back near his best as well.

Ronald Velden
-23rd July 2014, 18:38
John L/Keith Smith

I think that it will be very difficult for GB Mens Foil to qualify for Rio.

Leaving aside for a moment that we are the 5th ranked European team and we could possibly move above Germany and Poland.

The other 3 teams in Europe are significantly stronger than Britain so that the only hope that we have to qualify
would be that they all finish in top 4 rankings and we then become the lead European nation outside top 4.

China is now in top 4 so that it needs only USA or Korea to supplant one of European teams as well and the place
is out reach. Both USA and Korea tend to do well in Olympic year.

Keith.A.Smith
-23rd July 2014, 18:55
Ronald,

No one is saying or thinks it will be easy for MFT to qualify, but you have to aspire to qualify or give up now.

It will be massively harder for Men's sabre to qualify in 2020, but both weapons have fencers who want to give of their best and masses of public funding.

I feel we should support them and ideally other weapons.

Keith

Keith.A.Smith
-23rd July 2014, 18:58
France and Russia ended on a high today with two more Gold medals.

Interesting that the pre Olympics world championships will also be held in Russia ( Moscow). I wonder if other countries will even bother bidding in future as Russian Fencing now has such enormous financial backing.

Cristiano
-23rd July 2014, 21:05
I don't know if the decision affects all 3 weapons but I know for sure that the WF Team competition won't happen in Rio. I read somewhere that at every Olympics few competitions get scrapped to make room for other (sports). As I said I can't speak for Épée and Sabre (and I'm not sure if it affects MF too) but for sure we will see my Italian WF Dream Team competing only for the individual medals. Sigh.

rake
-23rd July 2014, 23:52
I don't know if the decision affects all 3 weapons but I know for sure that the WF Team competition won't happen in Rio. I read somewhere that at every Olympics few competitions get scrapped to make room for other (sports). As I said I can't speak for Épée and Sabre (and I'm not sure if it affects MF too) but for sure we will see my Italian WF Dream Team competing only for the individual medals. Sigh.
There are only ten medals available for fencing at the Olympics; since the inclusion of Women's Sabre (team and individual) from 2004, that means only four of the six team events will run in any given Games. I think the team events omitted for 2016 are WF and MS.

Foilling Around
-23rd July 2014, 23:54
John L/Keith Smith

I think that it will be very difficult for GB Mens Foil to qualify for Rio.

Leaving aside for a moment that we are the 5th ranked European team and we could possibly move above Germany and Poland.

The other 3 teams in Europe are significantly stronger than Britain so that the only hope that we have to qualify
would be that they all finish in top 4 rankings and we then become the lead European nation outside top 4.

China is now in top 4 so that it needs only USA or Korea to supplant one of European teams as well and the place
is out reach. Both USA and Korea tend to do well in Olympic year.

That's fine Ronald, we'll just give up then. Let pessimism rule and save our money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ronald Velden
-24th July 2014, 00:05
Ronald,

No one is saying or thinks it will be easy for MFT to qualify, but you have to aspire to qualify or give up now.

It will be massively harder for Men's sabre to qualify in 2020, but both weapons have fencers who want to give of their best and masses of public funding.

I feel we should support them and ideally other weapons.

Keith

I don't disagree with what you say. You need to be positive, but also you need to be realistic. Britain are ranked
10th at moment with 5 European,3 Asian and USA ranked above us.

Only top 4 teams in final rankings are guaranteed place in Olympics. The point I made was that if anyone of top
3 European Countries drop out of top 4 then they will qualify as next top team from Europe.

Perhaps of greater concern is that if we don't qualify a team only one British Foilist might qualify for Rio. James
is at moment ranked in top 10. Even if Richard finished in top 10, but behind James he would not qualify under
present formula.

Double Riposte
-24th July 2014, 00:17
John L/Keith Smith

I think that it will be very difficult for GB Mens Foil to qualify for Rio.

Leaving aside for a moment that we are the 5th ranked European team and we could possibly move above Germany and Poland.

The other 3 teams in Europe are significantly stronger than Britain so that the only hope that we have to qualify
would be that they all finish in top 4 rankings and we then become the lead European nation outside top 4.

China is now in top 4 so that it needs only USA or Korea to supplant one of European teams as well and the place
is out reach. Both USA and Korea tend to do well in Olympic year.

Nobody is saying they have an easy route to qualify, and the fencers and BF are fully aware of that.

But what we do have is the number 6 ranked fencer in the world who is (highly likely) to improve yet further in the next two years backed up by a veteran who is still easily strongest performer in the team event week in week out, who regularly pulls off stunning performances against the best teams.
And we have a bag full of cash to throw at MM and Alex Tofalides over two years in the hope that they can continue to improve to the standard whereby our MFT are of the very highest quality.

All of the fencers, coaches and staff involved know that qualifying will be tough, but we have a couple of great fencers, and a few fencers to support with a lot of funding.

I for one know that they will give it their all and I think they have the potential to get the job done.

MST in 2020 is the one that sadly might be a stretch too far.

Ronald Velden
-24th July 2014, 00:28
Nobody is saying they have an easy route to qualify, and the fencers and BF are fully aware of that.

But what we do have is the number 6 ranked fencer in the world who is (highly likely) to improve yet further in the next two years backed up by a veteran who is still easily strongest performer in the team event week in week out, who regularly pulls off stunning performances against the best teams.
And we have a bag full of cash to throw at MM and Alex Tofalides over two years in the hope that they can continue to improve to the standard whereby our MFT are of the very highest quality.

All of the fencers, coaches and staff involved know that qualifying will be tough, but we have a couple of great fencers, and a few fencers to support with a lot of funding.

I for one know that they will give it their all and I think they have the potential to get the job done.

MST in 2020 is the one that sadly might be a stretch too far.

Sabre is not under discussion for 2016, because there is no team event. 2020 is a long way off. I am not selling
their prospects, because the mens sabre weapon is dominated by Central and Eastern European Countries.

As I suggested Mens Foil's best chance is that France,Russia and Italy remain in the top 4 ranking, which is the
case at moment.

Double Riposte
-24th July 2014, 01:36
Sabre is not under discussion for 2016, because there is no team event. .

I know - that's why I wrote 2020.

As it happens I know both teams will give it their all as will BF in the support that they can offer. Good luck to them both.

Keith.A.Smith
-24th July 2014, 09:40
The Russian Federation has hired Mazzoni of Italy to be their épée coach from this September.

Clearly they have unlimited financial resources and intend to do exceptionally well in Rio.

JohnL
-24th July 2014, 14:11
Despite Ron's eternal pessimism I look always to the future and try to see the best way forward. A few observations;

Men's Foil

JD and RK are both World Class fencers and will form the basis of the team for the near future. No-ones getting close to them.

MM is now 24 and while OK as a 3rd/4th team member and has improved over the past couple of years is only WR'd 77 and sometimes making L64's in A grades. (Some see L64's as a success, I see this as a stepping stone result.) I don't belittle his achievements, but as an earlier posting, I don't believe there's a significant step up he can make. In addition, he's completed Uni and the funds from the BF awards do not equate to a salary or bode well for a future employment strategy.

Tof - At 21 he's shown talent and could still improve. He's making L64's and L32's which is good and he's solid as the 3rd/4th team member. Clearly he has, "Issues," and these need to be somehow dealt with as they only detract from his capabilities.


Like it or not, those are the quartet for the run up to Rio. No-one else is pushing nor likely to. (Archer accepted although he's in the US)

In that case, I again put forward that BF needs to look further to the future. 2020 and 2024. In fencing terms, these are NOT far away. If you're looking to produce international fencers and you don't have a base core of quality to choose from. I suggest the program needs to look at cultivating from the 15-16 age group as these will be the 21-25 age group by the years I note. If they're left until they're 18-19, it'll again be too late and BF will have missed the boat.

Men's Saber

These guys I have the utmost respect for as a group of youngster's (and their coaches) who refused to lie down and die despite receiving zero help. They put in the effort, succeeded and now seem to be reaping the rewards.

While they cannot (JH excepted ) be considered World Class (as defined in an earlier post) and the help they are getting may be too late, they deserve applauding.

The appointment of a National Saber coach (who looks to have better credentials than the MF coach) is obviously a step forward, however the questions I have are;

Is the coach relocating to the UK and is this a full time or part time appointment?

Where will he be coaching?

Is it BF's intention to have a centralized training squad for Saber as they have for foil?


While it's great to have a coach of this quality, whether the system in place will get the results desired is questionable until the system is explained further.

cesh_fencing
-24th July 2014, 15:27
In that case, I again put forward that BF needs to look further to the future. 2020 and 2024. In fencing terms, these are NOT far away.

It will be interesting whether funding for MF is continued in the run up to Olympics when MF is not a team event and whether just the real medal potential individuals will continue to be supported, or whether a 8 year view over 2 cycles will be kept..?

Keith.A.Smith
-24th July 2014, 15:32
The FIE qualification system for Rio is on the FIE site Urgent letter 12 2014.

Double Riposte
-24th July 2014, 21:57
JohnL;

No MF team event in 2020, so it'll be interesting to see what happens to the funding and the team as a whole - whether the likes of Alex and particularly Marcus consider it viable to carry on fencing after 2016.


As for sabre, I agree totally with your point - the current group and their coaches deserve medals for their sheer determination and effort to continue at the international level over the past few years whereas other weapons are now barely represented at all.
This IS a 2020/2024 project - and there are some very talented individuals in MS in this country at junior and cadet level and hopefully with the right programme, funding and coaching in place, can realise their potential.
I find it sad that apart from JH who definitely still has an opportunity to compete at the highest level, the new sabre coach is perhaps arriving a couple of years too late to benefit some of the guys who are currenty - or could have been - invovled in the team.

Ronald Velden
-24th July 2014, 23:00
Despite Ron's eternal pessimism I look always to the future and try to see the best way forward. A few observations;

Men's Foil

JD and RK are both World Class fencers and will form the basis of the team for the near future. No-ones getting close to them.

MM is now 24 and while OK as a 3rd/4th team member and has improved over the past couple of years is only WR'd 77 and sometimes making L64's in A grades. (Some see L64's as a success, I see this as a stepping stone result.) I don't belittle his achievements, but as an earlier posting, I don't believe there's a significant step up he can make. In addition, he's completed Uni and the funds from the BF awards do not equate to a salary or bode well for a future employment strategy.

Tof - At 21 he's shown talent and could still improve. He's making L64's and L32's which is good and he's solid as the 3rd/4th team member. Clearly he has, "Issues," and these need to be somehow dealt with as they only detract from his capabilities.


Like it or not, those are the quartet for the run up to Rio. No-one else is pushing nor likely to. (Archer accepted although he's in the US)

In that case, I again put forward that BF needs to look further to the future. 2020 and 2024. In fencing terms, these are NOT far away. If you're looking to produce international fencers and you don't have a base core of quality to choose from. I suggest the program needs to look at cultivating from the 15-16 age group as these will be the 21-25 age group by the years I note. If they're left until they're 18-19, it'll again be too late and BF will have missed the boat.

Men's Saber

These guys I have the utmost respect for as a group of youngster's (and their coaches) who refused to lie down and die despite receiving zero help. They put in the effort, succeeded and now seem to be reaping the rewards.

While they cannot (JH excepted ) be considered World Class (as defined in an earlier post) and the help they are getting may be too late, they deserve applauding.

The appointment of a National Saber coach (who looks to have better credentials than the MF coach) is obviously a step forward, however the questions I have are;

Is the coach relocating to the UK and is this a full time or part time appointment?

Where will he be coaching?

Is it BF's intention to have a centralized training squad for Saber as they have for foil?


While it's great to have a coach of this quality, whether the system in place will get the results desired is questionable until the system is explained further.

You are like a lot of people who criticise me and talk a lot bs and contribute absolutely zippo to the sport. That is the problem with fencing in this country. Too many people who have not got a clue how to organise a sport and
contribute frankly fa.

Well I like to think that I have contributed more than most. I founded Camden which has now 140 members and
includes 4 members of WCP Sabre Programme. I have recruited over 13 years a number of coaches including
the current crop which now includes Ian Williams, Richard Kruse and Joannah Hutchison and overseas coaches
like Leo Suarez and Gabriella Varga.

I set up and financed Camden International which has been operating now for 8 years and is the first and only
International Tournament to use Copper Box in Olympic Park.

When I make the point that it will be very difficult for Britain to qualify for Olympics it is not because of pessimism, but realism. The British Foil Team does from time to time produce some excellent results but to
overtake France, Russia and Italy you need to beat them in competitions which matter on a consistent basis.
Also you need a squad of 4 World Class Fencers. At the moment we have two with another couple good enough
to make last 32 or 64 results.

Anyway I am now retired and I will leave it to experts like you and Paul Sibert to drive the sport forward.

TomA
-25th July 2014, 00:34
Interesting fact for you all to throw into the mix: when Ma Jianfei was 24, he finished the season ranked 225th and had previously not been higher than 83rd. He is now world number 1.

I do think we've got a bit too stuck to models of athlete development with silly acronyms. Fencing's a great sport because you can make one change and suddenly you're beating everybody. You can't predict it, you've just got to train hard enough that you're in a position to capitalise on it should it happen. It could happen when you're 18, or when you're 28.

Marcus Mepstead is 24. He's got plenty of time to get better, and there is no reason to think he's peaked.

For anyone trying to predict what will happen at the Olympics in two years' time, I'll say this. In 2010, how many of us thought the team for London would be Richard Kruse, Laurence Halsted and one of Ed Jeffries and Jamie Kenber, and no one else would get a look in? How many of us thought that in 2011? How many of us still thought that on 01/01/2012?

Well, we got Kruse right...

JohnL
-25th July 2014, 04:08
Interesting fact for you all to throw into the mix: when Ma Jianfei was 24, he finished the season ranked 225th and had previously not been higher than 83rd. He is now world number 1.

I do think we've got a bit too stuck to models of athlete development with silly acronyms. Fencing's a great sport because you can make one change and suddenly you're beating everybody. You can't predict it, you've just got to train hard enough that you're in a position to capitalise on it should it happen. It could happen when you're 18, or when you're 28.

Marcus Mepstead is 24. He's got plenty of time to get better, and there is no reason to think he's peaked.

For anyone trying to predict what will happen at the Olympics in two years' time, I'll say this. In 2010, how many of us thought the team for London would be Richard Kruse, Laurence Halsted and one of Ed Jeffries and Jamie Kenber, and no one else would get a look in? How many of us thought that in 2011? How many of us still thought that on 01/01/2012?

Well, we got Kruse right...

I tend to agree with you Tom, however I think you're looking at the exception rather than the rule.

I've applauded MM's progress over the past couple of years however I do indeed question how much improvement is possible given his fundamental technique.

In addition I look at the circumstances. Ma was in a fully funded state program, with coaches and sparring partners of the highest level.

In comparison we have fencers who are paid an inadequate stipend, have sparring partners of 2nd or 3rd tier at international level, and a coach of uncertain pedigree.

Given this, I believe the results achieved today by the fencers to be quite remarkable.

As for Ron's post, no comment, it says everything about him that's needed.

Ronald Velden
-25th July 2014, 06:34
I tend to agree with you Tom, however I think you're looking at the exception rather than the rule.

I've applauded MM's progress over the past couple of years however I do indeed question how much improvement is possible given his fundamental technique.

In addition I look at the circumstances. Ma was in a fully funded state program, with coaches and sparring partners of the highest level.

In comparison we have fencers who are paid an inadequate stipend, have sparring partners of 2nd or 3rd tier at international level, and a coach of uncertain pedigree.

Given this, I believe the results achieved today by the fencers to be quite remarkable.

As for Ron's post, no comment, it says everything about him that's needed.

Maybe I am just fed up with the same excuses and claptrap and more importantly suggestion that I am being negative.

The reality is that the current foil squad has until now received the bulk of UK Sport Funding, which is actually
not insignificant. Whether the money is and has been well spent to achieve objectives is another matter

The question which needs to be asked is whether the current programme is actually improving our athletes? Are
we producing more competitive foilists than before?

There is just 2 years to go before next Olympics and the competition cycle for qualification starts effectively in
September. For Britain to qualify we need to start beating consistently top teams and making medals at WC and
Champs. You cannot achieve that with reliance on 2 fencers one of whom is now training abroad by necessity in
order to achieve his personal objectives.

The sport needs to spend less time making excuses about our results and start looking at how to improve its
infrastructure.

cesh_fencing
-25th July 2014, 10:31
The sport needs to spend less time making excuses about our results and start looking at how to improve its infrastructure.

I have to agree with Ron.

It is going to be very tough for MF to qualify for Rio with the way qualification system as it is.. I certainly hope they do so, however there will need to be a pretty strong performance from GBR or another of the top European teams dropping quite a bit for this to happen.

I still think they have the potential to do so, however strengthening up the team from the bottom up is the key as Ron is pointing out.

Going forward after Rio is going to be interesting as RK at 31 in a few days would probably be a retirement possibility after Rio and we need more foilists coming through to fill that void.

It is impossible to predict what will happen with Sabre, as with the new coach arriving at least we have the chance of potential being reached by all our fencers. I am looking forward to being able to celebrate some great results going forward.

Good luck to all of the in the Olympic qualification attempts, as well as Natalia, Corinna etc who will just be trying for individual qualification.

Foilling Around
-25th July 2014, 11:02
The sport needs to spend less time making excuses about our results and start looking at how to improve its infrastructure.

Now here I agree with Ron, specifically about the physical infrastructure. Lee Valley may be a great place to have access to the non-fencing facilities, such as the performance gym etc on site, but as a fencing venue it sucks.

It cannot be right that, before training, the GBR WCP fencers have to put out their own boxes and spools and then put them away at the end.

It does not give you a great sense of value to be stuck on the end of an athletics track. That has to change.

Added to that we need the organisational infrastructure to identify and bring on young fencers. Now that takes us to 2024 and beyond and is where I regret the demise of the National Academy. Too many times we have thrown the baby away with the bath water. We constantly go for revolution not evolutions. Revolution produces too many casualties whereas evolution produces a stronger version of the species.

Ronald Velden
-25th July 2014, 11:50
I am not concerned post 2016 because at the end of the day the sport will survive with or without Lottery Funding. The sport may need to improve its act with more self help. That is certainly how those taking over from me at Camden view the future.

The BFA needs to make changes to our international programme with more emphasis on development and equalisation of opportunity for all weapons not just mens foil.

Richard will I think retire from international fencing post Rio, but rather like Ziemek he has a passion for the sport and will remain involved most probably as a coach. With his background and personality he will be brilliant.

Someone asked the question above what will happen to mens foil as a team event post Rio. The answer is that
the rotation ends in Rio and there is no certainty that it will not be included in the next Olympics. I do know that
there are concerns about one or two of the other weapons being included most particularly Womens Foil. There
is a lack of depth, dominance by one nation and it is at moment not particularly consumer friendly.I heard on
Tuesday that there might be some technical changes as well in this weapon.

JohnL
-25th July 2014, 13:19
The reality is that the current foil squad has until now received the bulk of UK Sport Funding, which is actually
not insignificant. Whether the money is and has been well spent to achieve objectives is another matter

The question which needs to be asked is whether the current programme is actually improving our athletes? Are
we producing more competitive foilists than before?

There is just 2 years to go before next Olympics and the competition cycle for qualification starts effectively in
September. For Britain to qualify we need to start beating consistently top teams and making medals at WC and
Champs. You cannot achieve that with reliance on 2 fencers one of whom is now training abroad by necessity in
order to achieve his personal objectives.

The sport needs to spend less time making excuses about our results and start looking at how to improve its
infrastructure.

I agree with everything you've said here Ron.

Fleetfoot
-25th July 2014, 15:21
Now here I agree with Ron, specifically about the physical infrastructure. Lee Valley may be a great place to have access to the non-fencing facilities, such as the performance gym etc on site, but as a fencing venue it sucks.

It cannot be right that, before training, the GBR WCP fencers have to put out their own boxes and spools and then put them away at the end.

It does not give you a great sense of value to be stuck on the end of an athletics track. That has to change.

Added to that we need the organisational infrastructure to identify and bring on young fencers. Now that takes us to 2024 and beyond and is where I regret the demise of the National Academy. Too many times we have thrown the baby away with the bath water. We constantly go for revolution not evolutions. Revolution produces too many casualties whereas evolution produces a stronger version of the species.

Lee valley has many drawbacks. One is its inaccessibility. It is extremely difficult to reach by public transport.
Each time I hear about it, I have to wonder if there aren't alternatives. A dedicated facility in a central location.
That wouldn 't solve everything, but it would send the right signal and be a good start.

Ronald Velden
-25th July 2014, 15:53
Lee valley has many drawbacks. One is its inaccessibility. It is extremely difficult to reach by public transport.
Each time I hear about it, I have to wonder if there aren't alternatives. A dedicated facility in a central location.
That wouldn 't solve everything, but it would send the right signal and be a good start.

There is a Dedicated Facility i.e. Leon Paul Centre, but those running our International Programme don't want to
use it.

Both Ian Williams and Ziemek Wojciechowski now use it for daytime lessons. If it is good enough for them surely
it should be good enough for our national squad.

Keith.A.Smith
-25th July 2014, 16:28
What is also interesting after Rio 2016, is that the IOC are launching Project 2020 and may remove disciplines from sports, to allow in new sports.

I do not think fencing should presume it would keep all 10 medal disciplines. Equally if fencing gained the 12 medals it has campaigned for but no increase in athlete places, it would make it very difficult for GB fencers to qualify.

TomA
-25th July 2014, 17:46
I tend to agree with you Tom, however I think you're looking at the exception rather than the rule.


The more exceptions I see, the more I start to question whether there is a rule.

As for Marcus' fundamental technique, we shall see. I'm not a great analyst of international foil, but very few people on this forum are either. My personal hunch (worth very little) is that the fact that he seems to like lunging into his opponent's forwards movement may be a nice asset in a couple of years, if people start copying the running attacks that JD, Lefort, Cheremisinov etc seem to be doing well with right now. Obviously that won't make him world number 1, but he could easily be second page of the FIE rankings by 2016, which for a third man in a team is a fair enough ranking.

Adam Blight
-25th July 2014, 18:29
I'd be interest to hear any opinions on this point. I was at Kazan for the individual events as coach for David Alexander and with the Irish contingent. David eventually went out to Haiwei Chen CHN 15-7. Then when I watched the final of the Mens Team Foil with China and France, the Chinese had put Chen on as the last match even though they had Ma and Lei in their team. WHY? In the event non of the Chinese fencers could have made up the deficit against France but why would they put him in that position he is good but surely you would put Ma or Lei in that place, it seems odd to have the less experienced fencer as the last match.

I would also like to say that I am a great supporter of our current Mens Foil Team, I think that there is a great mix of styles and capabilities, Marcus and Toffy will continue to get better and better and on a good day James and Richard can beat anyone. However, qualifying for Rio is going to be very tough and we will need some 'good days' at crucial moments. Challenging but achievable!

Miacat
-25th July 2014, 20:54
Don't know why they put him in last, but it is a tactic often used in France. They let the more experienced fencers get the points and into the lead, so the last fencer just has to hold the score and "play for time" if need be. Takes a lot of nerve and doesn't always work though!

Adam Blight
-25th July 2014, 21:36
Don't know why they put him in last, but it is a tactic often used in France. They let the more experienced fencers get the points and into the lead, so the last fencer just has to hold the score and "play for time" if need be. Takes a lot of nerve and doesn't always work though!

Could be, though Chen is a naturally pressing fencer rather than someone who sits there and soaks it up.

pigeonmeister
-29th July 2014, 13:30
Is there any truth in the rumour that Halsted is planning a come-back? I think he's been coaching abroad somewhere but he turned up at the Copenhagen satellite. Despite presumably not having competed since London 2012 he came 3rd- ahead of all the other GBR fencers (including some on the programme).

3 Card Trick
-29th July 2014, 13:43
He is living and working near Copenhagen and he was strong at the Satellite. He can do whatever he chooses to do. Another strong competitor in Copenhagen was that classy Austrian.

pigeonmeister
-29th July 2014, 16:10
I see. Well if he wants to he has a lot of advantages.

1. If he's working in Denmark then he may well have a connection to our senior MF coach.
2. He's got a great relationship with Kruse and ZW (and so Davis).
3. He's a proven medalist at senior level
4. He's proved before that he can have a break from the sport and come back into a successful team
5. The 3rd/4th spot in the team VERY open.
6. He did well in the 2012 team when he came on.
7. He's just turned up to a decent competition and beaten other team members.
8. There's lots of money for MF
9. Does anyone doubt that he is still better than at least one or two who have benefited from being on the programme?

That said, he's no spring chicken and he may have other life plans. But he may feel he has unfinished business having lost his place in the 2012 individuals. In any case it must be a little bit tempting.

Fleetfoot
-29th July 2014, 23:13
No doubt LH would be chuffed to read this thread.
Would be super to see him back on piste for GB.
But possibly important to remember there is more to life than competitive fencing.

Double Riposte
-29th July 2014, 23:48
I see. Well if he wants to he has a lot of advantages.

1. If he's working in Denmark then he may well have a connection to our senior MF coach.
2. He's got a great relationship with Kruse and ZW (and so Davis).
3. He's a proven medalist at senior level
4. He's proved before that he can have a break from the sport and come back into a successful team
5. The 3rd/4th spot in the team VERY open.
6. He did well in the 2012 team when he came on.
7. He's just turned up to a decent competition and beaten other team members.
8. There's lots of money for MF
9. Does anyone doubt that he is still better than at least one or two who have benefited from being on the programme?

That said, he's no spring chicken and he may have other life plans. But he may feel he has unfinished business having lost his place in the 2012 individuals. In any case it must be a little bit tempting.

Do you know something we don't, or are you just wildly speculating for the fun of it?

pigeonmeister
-30th July 2014, 08:26
I have no inside info. This is speculation based on rumours I've heard. Have to say it's unlikely but if I was BF I'd be making enquiries. Teams can change quickly- a year or two before 2012 there were probably 4 other fencers ahead of JD and HR, and Halsted was one of them. There are only two guaranteed places in the current team. And if one fencer can walk into the GBR team set-up having not trained for several years then a well connected former European medalist who is still out performing other team members can. He is well placed, that's all I'm saying. No idea if he has the ambition...