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oddball
-27th April 2004, 11:22
Do Duellist sell grubscrews as spares, because I was unable to fix a foil belonging to someone at my club because the screw holes were too small for LP screws.

Wouldn't it be better if all foils used the same sized grubscrews?

imported_sword_fixer
-28th April 2004, 11:58
yes

devalleassoc
-29th April 2004, 01:03
Erm..., yeah, a little uniformity would be nice!! (Imagine needing a screw, or other part for that matter, and actually being able to "borrow" one from someone, and have it actually fit!!??)

Aer
-29th April 2004, 07:58
until there is some enforced uniformity from governing bodies then the companies will continue to use different parts, so that the cost of any repairs/parts that are requested will return to the company.

oddball
-29th April 2004, 11:33
Blimey, some people agree!!!!!
Brilliant.

devalleassoc
-29th April 2004, 13:30
I have a funny feeling that most of us will agree on this one!! (Except manufacturers, of course!!);)

wingnutLP
-29th April 2004, 16:00
Ours have been the same size since electric foil came in so We claim rights on the standard size that everyone else should conform to!

uk_45
-29th April 2004, 16:05
Cant arguee with that really can you.

Barry Paul
-29th April 2004, 16:23
For information our epee screws are the same as the foil screws unchanged for 40 years. so we double claim the right to be U.K. standard. Barry Paul (Why do I think this will not happen?)

oddball
-29th April 2004, 16:50
Wingnut:
Which company do you represent? (for want of another way of putting it)

Steve
-29th April 2004, 18:52
I always thought Wingnut was Barry! Which would make it LP that he represents!:tongue:

wingnutLP
-30th April 2004, 07:37
Wingnut = Alex Paul

Alex Paul = marginally related to Barry Paul

Barry Paul = Director of Leon Paul

Ergo Alex Paul = Marginally favorable towards Leon Paul!

oddball
-30th April 2004, 07:46
Ok, I'm not that thick!! (contrary to popular belief)
I guessed you might support LP anyway.

gbm
-30th April 2004, 08:42
The problem with having a set standard is that it prevents technological improvement. I bet LP would not be happy if British Fencing told everyone they had to change to using duellist size screws!
Or even if LP size screws became standard. What if with the new Mangarotti points, LP decides that a different size of screw is preferable to make the point more reliable and/or effective? So they decide to change it; because there are no restrictions preventing them from improving their project.

PS How are the Mangarotti points for next season going? :)

imported_sword_fixer
-30th April 2004, 09:14
"The problem with having a set standard is that it prevents technological improvement."

What?

We are talking about a screw, yes?
It's a standard size-pitch and diameter.
Allstars are "standard",Duelist are "standard"
LPs are standard.
The problem lies in the fact they all choose different diameters.

If your statement were correct, then LP have made no tech improvementsin 40 years or so.

Barry, your sacked.:mad:

goodbadandme take a look at the new gt foilpoint.
Better action, and stronger design than other competitors.
Same size grubscrews.

:cool:

oddball
-30th April 2004, 11:13
Who came up with the idea of electric fencing anyway, was it the french?

BigPappaBear
-30th April 2004, 11:50
Is it possible to improve a screw from a technological point of view?

Am I right in assuming that if the screws haven't changed in over 40 years , that in fact they are an imperial size and fitting.

Is this legal under EU regulations? I thought everything was meant to be metric!! :)

Perhaps in the same way we have seen standardisation in clothing the FIE may enforce standardisation with regards screws!

srb
-30th April 2004, 13:39
Originally posted by BigPappaBear
they are an imperial size and fitting.



BSP threads are imperial (British Standard Pipe)
ANSI threads are metric (American National Standards Institute)

Threads can be both parallel, or tapered, and the thread pitch can vary (the distance between the peaks and the troughs of the thread, or the distance between peak to peak, or trough to trough.


Like sword_fixer says, they are all standard, just different standards, which is why all my foils, some BF, and some LP have a common barrels, points, grub screws, re-wires etc. This means I don't have to keep spares of all sizes.

srb

DrT
-30th April 2004, 13:50
I sometimes think that fencers aren't geeky enough about their equipment. If we were more obsessive, manufacturers would have more of an incentive to innovate.

SRB restores my faith in the fencing geek. I salute you!
:beer:

BigPappaBear
-30th April 2004, 14:03
I do know of someone who uses the LP screws in Allstar/Ulhmann Epee's. Though there is a brute force approach used to get them to fit. I admit to wincing a little when I was told.

The advantage of the Leon Paul screw is that you can see it when you drop it on the floor. Well on a hard surface anyway.

imported_sword_fixer
-30th April 2004, 14:27
Many people use LP foil screws for Allstar epees. They are meant to be the same size, but slight variations in manufacturing means they may not apear to fit. A good rule of thumb is "if it don't fit-don't make it"

Steve
-30th April 2004, 22:00
From my experience LP screws seem to be way too big for Allstar/Uhlman tips. I don't see how you could get them to fit... even with brute force!

ANSI threads are metric (American National Standards Institute)
I always thought that American measurements were all imperial?:confused:

devalleassoc
-1st May 2004, 00:46
True, his got them mixed up!!

neevel
-1st May 2004, 02:45
Originally posted by Steve
From my experience LP screws seem to be way too big for Allstar/Uhlman tips. I don't see how you could get them to fit... even with brute force!



The time to use LP scews in german epee tips is when one or both of the holes in the tip has gotten too worn to hold an OEM screw in. The larger-diameter LP scews will fit snugly, and get you through at least the rest of the tournament without having to constantly be checking for and replacing lost screws.

-Dave

gbm
-1st May 2004, 11:54
Originally posted by sword_fixer
"The problem with having a set standard is that it prevents technological improvement."

What?

We are talking about a screw, yes?
It's a standard size-pitch and diameter.
Allstars are "standard",Duelist are "standard"
LPs are standard.
The problem lies in the fact they all choose different diameters.

If your statement were correct, then LP have made no tech improvementsin 40 years or so.

Barry, your sacked.:mad:

goodbadandme take a look at the new gt foilpoint.
Better action, and stronger design than other competitors.
Same size grubscrews.

:cool:

Alright, so screws aren't exactly the most innovative concept going, but what if somebody fixed the dimensions of the barrel and of the sliding surface? As you say, LP have recently altered the length of the sliding surface.
And when the new foil points (Mangarotti points) are introduced, as I am absolutely certain they will probably be (:)), LP might decide it would be advantageous to use a different size of screw. Just because they seem to have it sorted at the moment, doesn't mean they are never going to change.
And I thought LP had fairly recently started using slightly countersunk screws (or is that just my imagination/poor memory/confusion?). Or something like that, anyway...

imported_sword_fixer
-1st May 2004, 15:03
This thread is getting waaaaay to picky for me.

All I am saying is that the introduction of a "standard" does not prevent tech. innovation.

If you look at F1 racing,the rules seem to be changed every time a tech innovation is developed- or is it the other way round.

And yes you can use LP grub screws on German epee points.They actualy go in better when new.