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View Full Version : 1st significant andvance in uniforms???



symon
-3rd May 2004, 00:07
Jst been browsing on Triplettte Competition arms website and they are now making UNITARDS for fencing !!!!

uk_45
-3rd May 2004, 08:50
Have you got a link?

Ulrika
-3rd May 2004, 09:40
Triplette fencing unitard. (http://www.triplette.com/sport%20fencing/images/uniform1.gif)

symon
-3rd May 2004, 09:44
Sorry Uk_45 havn't worked out how to do the Hyperlink bit yet!:o but if you go onto triplette.com then sport fencing there listed down the left of the page , click on Knickers & Unitards and scroll down you can click on the code on the left of the description and a Pic will come up

symon
-3rd May 2004, 09:50
oops you posted about the same time as me and didn't see the link cheers ulrika!!!!:thumbs_up

Gav
-3rd May 2004, 10:32
Can you imagine your average Epeeist in one...

<reaches for sickbag>

pqg
-3rd May 2004, 11:28
Hmmm...

Where does the bodywire go in?

;)

mawk
-3rd May 2004, 12:36
These aren't really new, they've been on sale for donkeys' years [sic?] - or at least since I moved to the USA back in 1996.

However, I have never seen anyone actually wearing one, even in the States. I think primarily for the reasons hinted at by Gav, and also because, if you want to take a break from your jacket and cool down mid-comp, the effect is rather extreme.

symon
-3rd May 2004, 15:48
Originally posted by pqg
Hmmm...

Where does the bodywire go in?

;)
I never even thought of that 1!!!!!! there either must be an insert hole in the back of the unitard .................. or the bodywires gonna have to travel the length of your leg then back up to the bodywire ring at the back! which just ain't going to work full stop!!!

Might send Walter an e-mail and see how they get round that problem!!

nirvana
-3rd May 2004, 17:31
Would they be pretty hard to get in/out of?

uk_45
-3rd May 2004, 17:57
Since when are breeches called knickers

Ok that is just sooooo wrong dont like it at all would could just take your jacket of in rests plus theres no 10cm overlap so you can't use it!

symon
-3rd May 2004, 18:12
Originally posted by nirvana
Would they be pretty hard to get in/out of?

I would imagine so!!! mean they look pretty tight fitting but even if they were made with really stretch fabric its stiill gonna be tough!! ........... i should imagine its gonna be like putting on a Boiler suit which is too small for you

p.s still waiting for a reply from walter

uk_45
-3rd May 2004, 18:25
Well I aint going to be rushing out to buy one!

Rdb811
-3rd May 2004, 19:08
Originally posted by uk_45
Since when are breeches called knickers



Americans call breeches knickers (short for knickerbockers) with out realising what we call knickers.

Rdb811
-3rd May 2004, 19:09
Originally posted by mawk

However, I have never seen anyone actually wearing one, even in the States. I think primarily for the reasons hinted at by Gav, and also because, if you want to take a break from your jacket and cool down mid-comp, the effect is rather extreme.

Let alone if you need to pop to the Gents.

symon
-3rd May 2004, 19:32
Originally posted by Rdb811
Let alone if you need to pop to the Gents.

oohhh!!! that could be a little embarrasing!!!

uk_45
-3rd May 2004, 19:41
Oh has any one mentioned they look STUPID!!!!

symon
-3rd May 2004, 19:44
among other things ive thought of yeah!!!

Ulrika
-3rd May 2004, 19:44
Actually I have seen someone fence in this hideous outfit...


I still go to therapy, but my doctor says the nightmares will go away in a couple of years or so...


;)

uk_45
-3rd May 2004, 19:45
We should have a irony or off topic tags you know!

symon
-3rd May 2004, 19:52
eeeeeeewwwwwww!! I'm sure the nightmares will pass with time ulrika!!:tongue:

nirvana
-3rd May 2004, 20:27
I think that picture is really funny.

uk_45
-3rd May 2004, 20:33
Makes me grab a sick bag

symon
-3rd May 2004, 20:33
ive noticed that Gofence.com are selling some of the TCA equipment now!!!! ........ thankfully NOT the Unitards

uk_45
-3rd May 2004, 20:55
GoFence

Dont stock them please!!!!

Australian
-4th May 2004, 08:40
but they arn't legal....

Aer
-4th May 2004, 09:19
Originally posted by Australian
but they arn't legal....

why's that then ?

is it something to do with the overlap or something?

gbm
-4th May 2004, 12:33
Am I the only person who thinks they are good just for the comedy opportunities presented? Or that some people might look good in them?

oddball
-10th May 2004, 11:53
Ok, the last time I wore anything like that (and I looked really cute apparently!) was when I was about 6 months old (a babygro).

The thought of people fencing in them...........ewwww!!! Might look good on some people, but picture if you dare, the average sort of fat person who fences (we have a few over here), and I mean no offence to fat people, wobbling about in one. Double ewwwwwww!

*grabs a sick bag*

gbm
-10th May 2004, 11:59
You have a point.

Australian
-10th May 2004, 12:35
Originally posted by Aer
why's that then ?

is it something to do with the overlap or something?

yeah, the breeches and the jacket need to overlap by 10cm... which is a bit hard when its a single piece

gbm
-10th May 2004, 12:45
I think the FIE would probably approve them if they were up to the safety standards, though, as the overlap is designed to prevent blade finding there way around the jacket/breeches, which obviously cannot happen with this design. Lets just hope the FIE don't decide this is safer and make us all wear them!

Ulrika
-10th May 2004, 12:55
Originally posted by goodbadandme
I think the FIE would probably approve them if they were up to the safety standards, though, as the overlap is designed to prevent blade finding there way around the jacket/breeches, which obviously cannot happen with this design. Lets just hope the FIE don't decide this is safer and make us all wear them!
Yeah, wasn't the 10 cm. overlap rule intended because there was a gap between breeches and jacket?

(Not that I'm ever going to put something hideous as that on, I'm just curious to know...)

Australian
-10th May 2004, 14:21
Originally posted by Ulrika
Yeah, wasn't the 10 cm. overlap rule intended because there was a gap between breeches and jacket?

(Not that I'm ever going to put something hideous as that on, I'm just curious to know...)

you're probably right... but you'll never see one with an FIE stamp on it (or i'll eat my hat), so there isn't really a problem anyways

Ulrika
-10th May 2004, 14:28
Originally posted by Australian
you're probably right... but you'll never see one with an FIE stamp on it (or i'll eat my hat), so there isn't really a problem anyways
...unless that fencer with the horribly bad taste in clothing wants to attend a competition that does not require FIE-approved equipment..?

Oh, why do I even bother?! *lol*

Let's just say we're lucky not to see them around too often. We'll probably never have to worry about that overlap rule! :tongue:

gbm
-10th May 2004, 14:35
Does the manufacturer of 'the item' in question produce a lot of FIE equipment, or do they make 350N stuff generally? As in, can we expect them, if 'the item' sells well (which it won't hopefully), to make an 800N variant and get FIE approval?

gbm
-10th May 2004, 14:36
I'm not sure which I would rather see... fencer's wearing 'the item' or Australian eating his hat (especially if it's a proper dangly-cork hat, pardon the Australian stereotype!)

Ulrika
-10th May 2004, 14:39
...this could be a language problem (meaning I'm lousy at english) but I just read this on the Triplette site (http://www.triplette.com/sport%20fencing/sport_fencing_knickers_and_unita.htm):

"TCA FIE Homologated Stretch Uniform. All the advantages of our unitard plus homologation protection makes this uniform the best ever created."

Does this mean it's certified by the FIE, Dave?!

Mantis
-10th May 2004, 14:56
Originally posted by Ulrika
...this could be a language problem (meaning I'm lousy at english) but I just read this on the Triplette site (http://www.triplette.com/sport%20fencing/sport_fencing_knickers_and_unita.htm):

"TCA FIE Homologated Stretch Uniform. All the advantages of our unitard plus homologation protection makes this uniform the best ever created."

Does this mean it's certified by the FIE, Dave?!

Yes, but it also means that it is the "best ever created." Assuming that the truthfulness is the same throughout the whole of the text ... :tongue:

gbm
-10th May 2004, 14:59
Let the hat eating commence!

Actually I have heard bad reports of one American manufacturer, though I have completely forgotten which one, manufacturing 'FIE homologated' kit or something like it when in fact it is not. Which manufacturer was that?

Otherwise it's FIE approved!

Ulrika
-10th May 2004, 15:00
Sooo...does this mean that we PM Dave that he can prepare to eat his hat?! ;)

Ulrika
-10th May 2004, 15:01
Originally posted by goodbadandme
Let the hat eating commence!
Darn, you beat me to it! :tongue:

symon
-10th May 2004, 15:35
Originally posted by Australian
you're probably right... but you'll never see one with an FIE stamp on it (or i'll eat my hat), so there isn't really a problem anyways

HHmmmmmmmmm ???? would you care for any salt or sauce with your Bush hat Australian?????? :tongue:

Petch66
-10th May 2004, 15:58
isnt it dangerous if you need to get out quickly?

1/ penetration how you supossed to get at the wound? Presumably its anti penetration material so scissors aint gonn help?

2/ what if your bladders in a critical condition? ITS WHITE DAMMIT!!!

Insipiens
-10th May 2004, 16:22
Made of FIE approved material does not (to my way of reading) mean the design itself is FIE approved. Maybe they make more normal designs which are FIE approved.

Does Addidas kit have an FIE stamp on it? (sorry, that is another thread).:tongue:

uk_45
-10th May 2004, 21:28
Ah there is no 10cm overlap so it carn't be FIE!

gbm
-10th May 2004, 21:33
You are only permitted to have the FIE stamp on it if it has been homologated by the FIE AFAIK i.e. you send a few examples off to SEMI and they test it and decide whether to approve it or not. The site says that 'the item' is FIE homologated, and thus is FIE approved I think...

And the FIE will sometimes approve things that go against rules if they are still safe by using a different technology. Examples are the not-glancing-off rules and transparent masks. Obviously it would be ridiculous to the FIE to fail this uniform due to the overlap rule.

uk_45
-10th May 2004, 21:38
Should be a looking stupid rule tho!

gbm
-10th May 2004, 21:50
But then I wouldn't be able to fence...

How about a being stupid rule?

uk_45
-10th May 2004, 21:54
Then what wud happen to sabre!

gbm
-10th May 2004, 22:01
You'd have to slow down and to do compound attacks and things! The horror!

Ulrika
-11th May 2004, 06:11
Originally posted by Insipiens
Does Addidas kit have an FIE stamp on it?
The Adidas kit is indeed FIE-approved.

gbm
-11th May 2004, 08:08
And yet the FIE have said that they constitute advertising.
But what is the actual penalty for that anyway?

pinkelephant
-11th May 2004, 08:30
Originally posted by Ulrika
The Adidas kit is indeed FIE-approved.

The FIE label indicates that the FABRIC has been approved - not the garment itself.

Australian
-11th May 2004, 09:30
Originally posted by goodbadandme
And yet the FIE have said that they constitute advertising.
But what is the actual penalty for that anyway?

red card every time you present yourself on piste... but you can still fence with the clothing

Australian
-11th May 2004, 09:33
i think what they mean with the FIE homogulated unitard is that it uses the same material that they have on their FIE jackets and breeches - not that it is official FIE clothing.

I don't think you would be able to use it at an A-grade or the olympic games.... Prove me wrong, and i'll start dining

Mantis
-11th May 2004, 09:44
Originally posted by Australian
red card every time you present yourself on piste... but you can still fence with the clothing

Hmmm, is one point worth the amount of revenue you could get from having the logo of <enter name of huge, multi-national company of your choice> plastered all over your clothing?

With the spectator appeal of fencing in this country? Probably not. :dizzy:

Australian
-11th May 2004, 09:48
Originally posted by Mantis
Hmmm, is one point worth the amount of revenue you could get from having the logo of <enter name of huge, multi-national company of your choice> plastered all over your clothing?

With the spectator appeal of fencing in this country? Probably not. :dizzy:

well at any real competition you have to get it through a weapon control, then there is the likelyhood of DT asking you to remove it assuming it gets through there etc etc

gbm
-11th May 2004, 10:00
Originally posted by Mantis
Hmmm, is one point worth the amount of revenue you could get from having the logo of <enter name of huge, multi-national company of your choice> plastered all over your clothing?

With the spectator appeal of fencing in this country? Probably not. :dizzy:

I'd do it for a fiver, if I didn't have such a fear of breaking rules!

Leonardofury
-11th May 2004, 10:17
Originally posted by Australian
well at any real competition you have to get it through a weapon control, then there is the likelyhood of DT asking you to remove it assuming it gets through there etc etc

If you were wearing the unitard i can see problems removing the offending Item!!

Tubby
-11th May 2004, 12:15
Originally posted by oddball
The thought of people fencing in them...........ewwww!!! Might look good on some people, but picture if you dare, the average sort of fat person who fences (we have a few over here), and I mean no offence to fat people, wobbling about in one. Double ewwwwwww!

*grabs a sick bag* Hey!!!! Don't try to take away my only advantage! How else will this ever happen..........shimmer shimmer.......
"Engarde, are you ready, fence"
(Tubby) Wobble wobble wobble
(Opponent) Ewww ... Bluuuu
Tubby (semi-lunge don't want to tip over in this outfit)
"Wobble from my left all the way, Right is hit, point to Tubby" "Can someone bring a mop to clean up this sick please" "Tubby wins - X cannot continue to fence with sick in his mask and down his jacket"

gbm
-11th May 2004, 12:21
What's the hand signal for a wobble? ;)

imported_sword_fixer
-11th May 2004, 13:07
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
red card every time you present yourself on piste... but you can still fence with the clothing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
no, you can't in an FIE competition it's:-

"obligation to change immediately and penalties according to t.114 etc. etc etc ad nausea

However, if the comp. is televised, then "the rights of the tv company are paramount" so the tv company can say what is and is not allowed- so if Addidas pays the TV to sponsor the event, then they can say what is advertised on it........I think

I cant see this happening at the Norfolk cup though

Australian
-12th May 2004, 09:27
Originally posted by sword_fixer
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
red card every time you present yourself on piste... but you can still fence with the clothing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
no, you can't in an FIE competition it's:-

"obligation to change immediately and penalties according to t.114 etc. etc etc ad nausea

However, if the comp. is televised, then "the rights of the tv company are paramount" so the tv company can say what is and is not allowed- so if Addidas pays the TV to sponsor the event, then they can say what is advertised on it........I think

I cant see this happening at the Norfolk cup though

the first bit is right, sorry everyone - get confused with nationals colors and names and stuff, need more sleep

Your second comment is somewhat incorrect. Adidas kit is illegal, and as such should not be permitted at any further A-grades or the games

imported_sword_fixer
-12th May 2004, 10:11
Oh, OK. maybe have just read the rules wrong then.
But...
Since the logo is technicaly not a makers "mark" due to size, it therefore constitutes advertising(annexe to the material rules,
cf chapter 4,C(a)1
If the fencer has signed a contract with Addidas then he may wear their logo as covered by cf chapter 4,C(b)
And then cf chapter 4,C(e) goes on to say:

"the rights of the tv company are paramount, and the organisers must make clear...........the conditions of entry for the competition, and the way in which advertising material worn or carried by the fencers will be permited"

I guess it must be down to interpretation, how are we mere mortals meant to know what is right?

Australian
-12th May 2004, 14:16
read the british copy:


C. Advertising which is worn or carried



(a) Definition



1. Advertising worn or carried refers to any name or badge other than the mark (cf. Chapter IV, section A) which appears on a fencerís main equipment or ancillary equipment and which comes from a firm other than the manufacturer or distributor of the equipment in question.



2. A mark which is larger than the sizes which are usual or laid down above (cf. Chapter IV, section A) constitutes advertising.



3. All advertisements for alcoholic drinks, tobacco and any others against the sporting ethos are forbidden.



(b) Fencing clothing and equipment



No advertising is permitted either on the clothing or the equipment of a fencer (weapon, mask, etc.) nor any other display (badge, name, etc.), other than as authorised above (cf. Chapter IV, section A), except on the mask, where the self-adhesive badge of the competition taking place must be worn, if the organisers so require (see below).




Thus because the 'mark' is too big, it becomes advertising, and no advertising is allowed on the fencer or his/her clothing.

and in reference to TV


3. Advertising in the places where fencing takes place is the responsibility of the organisers.



It is permitted to the extent that, in the opinion of the Directoire Technique, it does not

inconvenience the fencers, the judges or the public.



Television requirements must be respected.


That sentence refers to the fact that a company might be sponsoring the TV coverage, and wouldn't want a competitors advertising to be seen for obvious reasons.

imported_sword_fixer
-12th May 2004, 15:38
Thanks Dave,
Does that mean that if the logo is smaller(< 50cm2) the Addidas kit is then legal?

uk_45
-12th May 2004, 16:33
Where can u place a club badge by the way?

Australian
-12th May 2004, 19:12
Originally posted by sword_fixer
Thanks Dave,
Does that mean that if the logo is smaller(< 50cm2) the Addidas kit is then legal?

i think the rule has been changed to 75cm2... (read the british rules, not the USFA ones i think you're reading), but yes, although the stripes are considerably bigger than that

imported_sword_fixer
-12th May 2004, 19:35
Sorry, 2000 rules, but they were British

Ulrika
-13th May 2004, 06:15
Originally posted by uk_45
Where can u place a club badge by the way?
Club badges are to be placed on your non-weapon arm.

Atleast these are the rules here in Sweden, and if I'm not entirely wrong this rule is international... Someone to correct me, Dave? :)

uk_45
-13th May 2004, 15:22
Not much point for sabre then!

Tubby
-13th May 2004, 17:46
have you seen the picture on the LPJS website or the glossy booklet? the kid has his/her patches on the fencing arm - tut tut tut

Australian
-13th May 2004, 19:42
Originally posted by Ulrika
Club badges are to be placed on your non-weapon arm.

Atleast these are the rules here in Sweden, and if I'm not entirely wrong this rule is international... Someone to correct me, Dave? :)

weeeeeeeeell, since it isn't a 'mark' defined by the FIE, the club badge can in fact go anywhere where it won't allow the blade to catch - thus the common position is for the back arm in foil/epee and the back thigh for sabre. Unless the referee thinks the balde will catch on it, there isn't anything stopping it being on the front arm.

If it was considered to be a mark by the FIE, it would have to be on at the bottom of the jacket on the hip on the side of the non-sword arm

Australian
-13th May 2004, 19:43
Originally posted by sword_fixer
Sorry, 2000 rules, but they were British

equally backward, hehehe :):)

yeah that came in with the 2004 changes

Moose
-23rd May 2004, 02:31
If I wore one of those I'd look like a bleedin tellytubby. Tinky Winky, Dipsy, Lala and Moose.

uk_45
-23rd May 2004, 08:50
Thought you already were one!:tongue:

gbm
-23rd May 2004, 09:47
You should have antlers fitted to your mask...

Moose
-23rd May 2004, 17:52
Originally posted by uk_45
Thought you already were one!:tongue:

Do you want to reach your next birthday?

gbm
-23rd May 2004, 19:14
You could use the antlers to gore UK_45 while you fenced...

uk_45
-23rd May 2004, 21:18
Hmmmm if he can get close enough (ok so he whopped me last time but that las like a year ago)

Moose
-23rd May 2004, 22:55
Lol and I've not trained since :tongue:

uk_45
-24th May 2004, 17:25
Ahh i should have this one in hand easy then!

Moose
-25th May 2004, 12:40
We shall see :grin:

uk_45
-25th May 2004, 14:01
tommorw night your on!

Moose
-25th May 2004, 23:28
Lol, if you meant tonight I was playing pool. and tomorrow night I'm working

uk_45
-26th May 2004, 17:15
Ahhh well i missed last night (tuesday) any way.

Study leaves ROCKS

gbm
-26th May 2004, 18:21
Sadly study leave always ends with exams.

imported_sword_fixer
-26th May 2004, 19:37
No , not always. Sometimes it ends with complete and utter failure

Leonardofury
-26th May 2004, 20:15
Very true.

uk_45
-26th May 2004, 21:05
9 exams left! spent all of today watching return of the king and fencing

gbm
-26th May 2004, 22:06
No no no! Study leave always ends with exams. Failure doesn't (usually) occur until you get the results back...

I've got one more exam on Friday.

uk_45
-26th May 2004, 22:15
this much is true