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uk_45
-31st May 2004, 13:18
I see from the LP site that they are going to be coming out with a new pad; so what do we think it will be?

gbm
-31st May 2004, 14:33
(PS I actually clicked 'withstand the temperature of the Sun')

(The following is an entirely fictitious LP blurb)
'The new LP foil pad is part of Leon Paul's lightweight range of products. A standard foil pad weighs 1.2g. An LP lightweight pad weighs only 0.6g, reducing the weight of your weapon by an amazing 0.6g!

Quote from Sergei Golubitsky:
"Wow, with this new foil pad, I feel I could win another three world championships!"

A typical manufacturers' sword without lightweight equipment weighs a staggering half-ton! With the Leon Paul Lightweight range, it weighs only 50g! Or, fitted with a super-dooper-dooper lightweight guard and blade, not only does it have a total weight of 0g, but it is also impossible for the opponent to see!!!'

uk_45
-31st May 2004, 14:34
Also on those hot opens it doesn't melt in your hand!

Neo
-31st May 2004, 15:02
Originally posted by goodbadandme
(PS I actually clicked 'withstand the temperature of the Sun')

(The following is an entirely fictitious LP blurb)
'The new LP foil pad is part of Leon Paul's lightweight range of products. A standard foil pad weighs 1.2g. An LP lightweight pad weighs only 0.6g, reducing the weight of your weapon by an amazing 0.6g!

Quote from Sergei Golubitsky:
"Wow, with this new foil pad, I feel I could win another three world championships!"

A typical manufacturers' sword without lightweight equipment weighs a staggering half-ton! With the Leon Paul Lightweight range, it weighs only 50g! Or, fitted with a super-dooper-dooper lightweight guard and blade, not only does it have a total weight of 0g, but it is also impossible for the opponent to see!!!'

This has got to be parody...

gbm
-31st May 2004, 15:15
Originally posted by goodbadandme
(The following is an entirely fictitious LP blurb)

uk_45
-31st May 2004, 15:27
Meaning its just him having a joke

sparkymark567
-31st May 2004, 15:34
None of the above, i'm guessing it will be a felt pad like what other companies sell. I preffer these. They are cheap (80p) and light weight and more comfy. They don't last very long ( but who cares) they do they job very well.

uk_45
-31st May 2004, 15:41
Hope not i hate them. Must be i prefence thing

gbm
-31st May 2004, 15:58
It won't be a felt pad. LP will not deliberately make an inferior product to their current range, as it goes against their 'philosophy'.

PS LP would see them as inferior as they don't last as long; LP stuff is sometimes seen as unreliable, but only by people who don't realise that the stuff is 20 years old and all the other manufacturer's stuff packed in 10 years ago.

uk_45
-31st May 2004, 16:10
Yeah all the old masks i've seen seem to be LP

Rdb811
-31st May 2004, 16:20
Originally posted by sparkymark567
None of the above, i'm guessing it will be a felt pad like what other companies sell. I preffer these. They are cheap (80p) and light weight and more comfy. They don't last very long ( but who cares) they do they job very well.

And you can cut a nic hole in felt to let it slip over the grip - say goodbye to 'trapped wire' misery

uk_45
-31st May 2004, 16:50
Huh what?

Rdb811
-31st May 2004, 18:05
I'v learnt (the hard way) not to screw the grip onto the pad - you can't see where the wires are - hence most of my pads have the holes enlarged so the 'float' up and down the grip.

gbm
-31st May 2004, 18:15
Just hold the wires up while you put a sword together... it's not that tricky.

nirvana
-31st May 2004, 18:16
I like felt pads the best (assuming im getting the right material) cos, you can lift up the pad easier to look at the wire for faults and damages. I find lp pads stick to the guard and you can't lift them up very easily. Am i right by saying Allstar use felt pads?

Rdb811
-31st May 2004, 20:55
Yes.

And I do lift the wires up IF possible - I only have two hands.

gbm
-31st May 2004, 22:52
Well there is your problem then! All armourers have at least three hands...

uk_45
-1st June 2004, 09:03
Allstar however understand that we need a pad on sabres!

kingkenny
-1st June 2004, 09:58
Originally posted by Rdb811
I'v learnt (the hard way) not to screw the grip onto the pad - you can't see where the wires are - hence most of my pads have the holes enlarged so the 'float' up and down the grip.
Originally posted by nirvana
I like felt pads the best (assuming im getting the right material) cos, you can lift up the pad easier to look at the wire for faults and damages. I find lp pads stick to the guard and you can't lift them up very easily. Am i right by saying Allstar use felt pads?
Ok here is a picture of the prototypeÖ it is clear so it is kind of tricky to see!
http://www.leonpaul.com/news/see_handle.htm

:grin: - Fault finding is simple as you can see the wire and see if its damaged.
;) - It makes it much easier to mount your weapon as you can see exactly where the wire is in relation to the cut out in the handle meaning no more trapped wires.
:cool: -You never need to lift up the pad to see the wires making weapon check much easier so aromourers and referees love them.
:womping: -It is made of p.v.c. which does not absorb sweat meaning you donít get a smelly weapon and it lasts for ages. Felt pads may be squishy but have no strength and are not shaped to incorporate the inside guard socket leaving it flapping about exposing the wire underneath.

uk_45
-1st June 2004, 10:35
So it's a new pritty colour then!

kingkenny
-1st June 2004, 10:44
If see-through is a colour yes.

uk_45
-1st June 2004, 10:47
Looks like no one won then.

Don't spose you have a ETA yet?

kingkenny
-1st June 2004, 11:11
Tomorrow for Foil maybe friday at the latest and Epee next week.

uk_45
-1st June 2004, 11:18
Wow you really did mean coming soon!

Neo
-1st June 2004, 11:46
Originally posted by uk_45
Meaning its just him having a joke

aka parody

sparkymark567
-1st June 2004, 12:04
It doesn't seem that there is much padding (am I wrong?). I'm still in favour of felf pads (that was a very bad example of a felt pad in the pic.) Why can't LP supply felt pads, surely they are not very difficult to make. I'll pay extra just for the convenience. I don't care if they are inferior either, they do the job very well and I can just buy more of them.#

Smelly weopon if you use a felt pad? lol ha ha
Since when has a foil ever been smelly?, that really is cluching at straws.

uk_45
-1st June 2004, 12:09
What picture would this be.

And the one KK posted was a proytotype

Rdb811
-1st June 2004, 12:09
Not sure that having a pool of sweat at your fingertips is that good an idea.

Rdb811
-1st June 2004, 12:11
Originally posted by uk_45
What picture would this be.

And the one KK posted was a proytotype

KK posted a pic of a felt pad in comparsion, albeit a very poor example one.

uk_45
-1st June 2004, 12:21
Ahh didn't see that before. Yeah it is a bad example i will admit. Also a old weapon

sparkymark567
-1st June 2004, 12:25
that's it, I'm starting a campaign who else wants LP to sell felt pads.

Neo
-1st June 2004, 12:34
mm no thanks

Maybe you can get them to sell allstar-style full PVC pad things for sabre. Oh and get duellist to use PVC ones too

uk_45
-1st June 2004, 12:44
would those be the allstar fingers breakers which go on electric sabres.

gbm
-1st June 2004, 13:19
Don't LP make an impact-absorbing pad for sabre already?

uk_45
-1st June 2004, 13:33
yeah they do. By far the best aswell. Allstar seem not to have pads at all somtimes

sparkymark567
-1st June 2004, 16:34
As you can see, my campaign for felt foil pads has got off to a flying start. LP have been inundated with requests (not).

A recent (imaginary) survey showed that 1/2 of the top foilist prefer felt pads. Unfortunately they are very shy.

MrWizard
-1st June 2004, 19:18
Didn't LP use foil pads in the "good old days"? My first foil with a pistol grip (circa 1990) had a felt pad on it.

It does look a bit tatty now, but it is easier to get in and about than the current plastic pads :)

Jamie

Rdb811
-1st June 2004, 23:41
Hmmm - I've seen a couple - like the white one on the photo.

gbm
-2nd June 2004, 08:11
What is the transparent cushion filled with? If it was filled with a gel, that would be very cool.

Insipiens
-2nd June 2004, 11:49
until it split.

gbm
-2nd June 2004, 12:10
I had considered that, but I think it would be possible to make the seams strong enough. How often do the current LP cushions split?

uk_45
-2nd June 2004, 13:15
I've never known it happen

J_D
-2nd June 2004, 13:22
They get old they break! Particularly where the grip flattens them

gbm
-2nd June 2004, 13:28
Well if you use a sticky gel, like my Mum has in her keyboard rest, then it won't come out when it splits, which saves mess, but as long as it lasts for a couple of years...
Good thinking though, obviously a circle of not-gel needed in the middle so as to not crush the gel with the grip.

uk_45
-2nd June 2004, 13:29
Kinda a ring of gel would be needed

harry
-2nd June 2004, 14:21
Smelly Weapon? Spoken like a true pro!!!!!!!!! (not)

For all the latest products and technical innovations that you talk about you came up with a plastic see through pad with no cushioning and makes the weapon look rediculously ugly!!!

Put me down for six!! (not)

sparkymark567
-2nd June 2004, 15:36
as you can see my campaign for LP to sell felt foil pads gets stronger every day. It's a 100% improvement on yesterday.

Yesterday it was just me, and today we have Harry aswell.

sparkymark567
-2nd June 2004, 15:38
anyone else want to join, there is need to be shy.

uk_45
-2nd June 2004, 15:40
Originally posted by harry
Smelly Weapon? Spoken like a true pro!!!!!!!!! (not)

For all the latest products and technical innovations that you talk about you came up with a plastic see through pad with no cushioning and makes the weapon look rediculously ugly!!!

Put me down for six!! (not)

What makes you think it has no padding?

gbm
-2nd June 2004, 15:43
I'm not actually convinced he said anything about felt pads...

gbm
-2nd June 2004, 15:45
Originally posted by uk_45
What makes you think it has no padding?

If it is, you aren't likely to see it. It is see-through, after all.

uk_45
-2nd June 2004, 15:52
Isn't there some ruling on padding?

uk_45
-2nd June 2004, 15:56
3. A metal guard fixed (with the convex face towards the front) between the blade and the hilt, serving to protect the sword hand. The guard may contain a padding or cushion (cf. m.5/2) to reduce the effect of blows. It will also contain a socket to which the bodywire can be connected.

m.5/2

2. Inside the guard there must be a cushion (padding) sufficiently wide to protect the electric wires from the fencerís fingers. The padding on the inside of the guard must be less than 2 cm thick and must be arranged in such a way as not to increase the protection which the guard affords the hand.

So i'd guess it does have padding.

Canis
-3rd June 2004, 13:46
Im surprised that Kingkenny didn't suggest that these new pads are part of the ever expanding L.P. lightweight range - i think your parody goodbadandme was not too wide of the mark.

Would any of the LP folks like to clarify what the weight saving is versus their standard elecctric foil pad?

Don't think much of felt pads BTW but each to their own. Main thing wrong is being continental none of the ones i've seen have a cut out for a leon paul(bayonette) IGS and you get it rucking up round the IGS because of it - easily solved with scissors though.

Also, take it from a cigar smoker - we keep damp felt pads in our humidors(cigar boxes) to increase the humidity that the cigars are kept in - damp felt pads in a fencing bag = humidity = rusty blades. :(

kingkenny
-3rd June 2004, 14:24
They are see-through not light weight.

Wait a second standard LP foil pad is 11g and the new pad is 8g so it is light weight!!! :grin: .

gbm
-3rd June 2004, 14:27
Wow! You've actually weighed them... :rolleyes:

kingkenny
-3rd June 2004, 14:39
I have postal scales on my desk so if you want to know the weight of something fencing related I am your man.
When calculating postage costs for the online lp store I had to weigh all 800 products and various combinations of sword and handle. OHHHHH I love my Job!!!

Canis
-3rd June 2004, 15:17
Originally posted by Kingkenny
They are see-through not light weight.

Wait a second standard LP foil pad is 11g and the new pad is 8g so it is light weight!!! :grin: .

A saving of 3g isnt that a weight saving of about 1% (on one of your lightweight weapons)

Is there any prize for the suggestion if the pad ends up marketed in the lightweight range;)

Is the difference more on the epee pad ?

kingkenny
-3rd June 2004, 15:21
Maybe 6 g :tongue:

Canis
-3rd June 2004, 15:27
Originally posted by Kingkenny
Maybe 6 g :tongue:


Thats got to be lightweight range - epee 2% lighter!!!

wingnutLP
-18th June 2004, 14:34
You will all be pleased to know that kennys new pads are selling like hotcakes!

sparkymark567
-18th June 2004, 15:24
Sorry about this, but I've got to say it anyway?

£1.62 ???? yet another example of reducing costs (i.e. easier and cheaper to make) call it a professional version and charge more for it. I'll take 10 please.

What does LP stand for? quality? perfomance? or value for money? where does this product position you in the market? How are you going to win back those customers who have switched to Ulhmann/ Allstar.

So you have a new foil pad in your product range. For whatever reason it would appear that some people are prepared to buy it. That's fine by me, but "pro- range"??????. Let's wait and see.........

Fortunately, I realise that LP can do alot better than this....

uk_45
-18th June 2004, 15:29
Hmmm i must say the above is a bit harsh, I can't think of many other companies (if any) that have produced so many new products and designs as LP.

Canis
-18th June 2004, 15:56
Originally posted by uk_45
Hmmm i must say the above is a bit harsh, I can't think of many other companies (if any) that have produced so many new products and designs as LP.

LP have produced loads of inovative products, designed and produced with sound engineering principles, however charging twice the money for a pad that must be technically much easier to produce than the old one (it looks like a single sheet of clear pvc) does seem somewhat odd!

Unless its being sold on the basis of being part of the lightweight range of course :grin:

uk_45
-18th June 2004, 16:57
Well yeah ok, By the way does any one know what duellist claim is for leading the way with new fencing inovations


Duellist has stood alone as one of the true innovators of fencing equipment.

Aslo i do like the oxymoron in that "has stood alone"-Implies singular, "one of the ...."-implies a group

Nick
-18th June 2004, 20:23
Am I right in thinking that the foil in the photo with the prototype was on the rack in the centre of the shop about 2-3 weeks ago, because I have a vague memory of having a look at it then and it feeling remarkably comfortable (more so than the regular ones) even if the fact that I could see the wires was a little bit disturbing (they might as well have been naked:eek:.) I probably would have paid more attention if I was still a foilist. Although having said that the most comfortable pad I've ever used was on one of my dads old foils and it was made of leather with padding inside it and it had stitching around the outer edge so not only did it feel nice it looked nice as well (in point of fact it still does look nice because it's still all in one piece) I'm not sure if it's a leon paul one or not because even though most of his stuff is easily identifiable as being leon paul he told me that when he was fencing Leon Paul blades had a bit of a bad reputation for breaking a lot, but it would be nice to see pads like this again particularly for Epee!!!

uk_45
-18th June 2004, 22:03
Yeah come on barry nice leather pads for all weapons, I know they aint lightweight

harry
-18th June 2004, 22:18
I can never understand on this forum how the longest threads are always the ones where you people talk utter dog droppings!!!

Its a plastic pad which is made of a clear pvc pressed around the edges with no padding- it is as innovative and attractive as a plastic bag and as useful as a chocolate tea pot.

Well yeah ok, By the way does any one know what duellist claim is for leading the way with new fencing inovations

Funny how you always seem to be anti-duellist in some of your threads but use "Eddie" as your logo- who happens to be the mascot for Iron Maiden who's lead singer happens to be the owner of Duellist. Have you ever bought anything from Bruce's company or do sit at the side and snipe? Or are you a wannabe maiden fan? or do you just use "Eddie" cos he is cool and your well............ posting about plastic pads and making remarks that you cant justify?

Get a life!!!

uk_45
-18th June 2004, 22:27
Well lets see yeah i own some duellist kit yeah and am buying the blue sabre blade (once i get the money) as i think it is a very nice blade. And yes i do know who bruce dickenson is.

Do you know however what i find more suprissing that there are people who take the simplest of threads and decide to make them abussive. I wont lower myself to your level so I will now finish the post.

harry
-18th June 2004, 22:37
YYYIIIIPPPPPPPEEEEEEE!!!!

Man Down Under
-18th June 2004, 22:49
hahah Hi Everyone , i have just registered, and i have been fencing four a couple of years down here in Perth, Western Australia, Im looking to contact some fencers as there is not many in Perth, i fence mostly epee and my coach has told me about fencing forum and to look around and read to learn more about this, i am 18 and really interested in buying some gear from companys i have not heard of, because over here there is very little equipment to buy,
i have just spent 20 minutes reading this post and find it a GREAT laugh, and very interesting, so well done on keeping me amused, i have 1 foil and a old diggety sabre (very bad condition) they were both handed down to me from my uncle, who has fenced for ages and ages (dont know how long exactly) they both have old cotton or frayed material as the pad, and could not belive my eyes when i seen someone had created a see-through pad,
after spending so long reading this i had to register and post my comments, to this, people may disagree, but i just think that if i used one in my country , i would be laughed at??? just my opinion (which doesnt mean alot on the internet) it is a complete waste of time, and a couple of people said it would make the weapon look ugly, i believe this is true, as you could see the wire hanging out of the guard protector, could you not? people say it doesnt have padding, if this is true, its a very silly idea, and i dont understand about the "protection from the sun" theory as i have (and dont know any one who has) had a problem with the sun hitting the pad? i might be wrong but if so please tell me how, i basically just dont understand the concept of this persons design, if you are the person who designed this im sorry, you obviously have not been making fencing equipment for long, BUT keep trying as maybe one day you will crack this?? im not sure if you will but it is worth a try, we need more gear here in australia, please email me if anyone is interested at piper01@perthinternet.com , thank you everyone for reading my long and exausting post, but i sat here for ages reading all of yours,
Sincerely, Jarrad Smith in Western Australia :-) - my first post.

uk_45
-18th June 2004, 22:58
ok welcome to the made house.

Now just have to clear this up and i fully expect to get yelled at by yourself and Harry.



if you are the person who designed this im sorry, you obviously have not been making fencing equipment for long,

But this product is made by the company Leon Paul (who kindly sponsor this forum), I think that they are the oldest fencing company on the block now-a-days dating back to 1925 (correct me if im wrong barry), Just thought i'd clear that up.

Rdb811
-18th June 2004, 23:58
Originally posted by uk_45


Do you know however what i find more suprissing that there are people who take the simplest of threads and decide to make them abussive.

Like your sudden attack on Duellist ?

Man Down Under
-19th June 2004, 08:52
good to see this is a active forum...

sparkymark567
-19th June 2004, 09:55
as much as I don't like them, they probably would be quite handy on club weapons. It would make armouring a bit easier. If they were a bottom of the range foil pad I could understand it.

sparkymark567
-19th June 2004, 10:00
another thought. How can duellist claim to lead the way in fencing innovations? do they make any of their own equipment?

uk_45
-19th June 2004, 12:38
Ok sos for losing it abit last night guys got stuff on me mind. I can see the merit in them for club as sparkymark said, must admit i won't be rushing out and buying one myself.

uk_45
-19th June 2004, 12:39
Originally posted by sparkymark567
another thought. How can duellist claim to lead the way in fencing innovations? do they make any of their own equipment?
Thank you my point, i'm not being anti-duellist im just interseted to know if its just spin or does it have a reason.

gbm
-19th June 2004, 22:25
If you do much armouring you will understand why a plastic pad is so cool...

Sparkymark says they would be could for club stuff. This is true, for pistol grip stuff of course. But they may also, eventually, become obligatory is simply ubiquitous at the highest levels where weapon checks are actually done.

imported_sword_fixer
-21st June 2004, 08:29
I think the see through ones would be cool If you injected a nice blue gell in them.Incidently if you wash them in the dishwasher they come out pink( dont ask me how I know)

wingnutLP
-21st June 2004, 08:45
Wether the foil pads sell well is yet to be seen. I genuinely think that they provide several advantages over standard pads and are inovative (something LP believe strongly in) wether you believe they look nice or not is fairly irelevant and subjective.

They may become mandatory at A grades so they cant be such a bad idea!

imported_sword_fixer
-21st June 2004, 08:50
I do like them, and as Armourer, think its nice to be able to see the wires easily, and appreciate the lightweightyness but I firmly believe that good design should be beautiful too. My nice see-through pink one looks better than the see-through clear one.

gbm
-21st June 2004, 11:20
Originally posted by sword_fixer
I think the see through ones would be cool If you injected a nice blue gell in them.Incidently if you wash them in the dishwasher they come out pink( dont ask me how I know)

I must try that, though maybe if you put them in the washing machine they will come out a different colour?
:tongue:

Saxon
-21st June 2004, 11:25
Only if you wash them with a nice new pair of coloured socks.

While you're at it, stick your fencing kit in too - that's usually good for a laugh at the next comp...

imported_sword_fixer
-21st June 2004, 11:42
The actual method used was
1) get hold of a new super dooper see throgh pad or two.(Thanks Alex~)
2) Hand it round the rest of the fencing family to get their opinions on it
3)leave it on the table where it gets covered by a plate
4)Not notice when it gets put in the diswasher at the end of the meal along with several beetrooty items
5)Admire the rather fetching deep pink see through pad

:rolleyes:

uk_45
-21st June 2004, 12:41
Ok how about this people say they dont like the look of the 'pad' i would sujjest they rather dont like whats behind it and i can see there point a bit of metal isn't all that pritty so how about guards with patterns on the inside. Am I making sense?

gbm
-21st June 2004, 12:51
Back to engraved guards then!

uk_45
-21st June 2004, 12:53
I was thinking of the LP pattern (the one found inside lamés etc) would look good but would cost alot proberbly.

wingnutLP
-21st June 2004, 14:34
engraved guards cost $$$$ unfortunately.

We looked into polishing the inner surface but that is tricky also as they are concave.

Steve
-21st June 2004, 15:56
How bout just blatantly stealing sword_fixer's idea/mishap, and just introducing tinted (but still see-through) pads... can't be much harder to manufacture than clear ones and you'd still get all the benefits of the clear pad along with making it look pretty cool

...maybe not pink though!

imported_sword_fixer
-21st June 2004, 16:08
I would be happy for anyone to steal my mishap.......Now where can I get blue beetroot from?

uk_45
-21st June 2004, 18:35
Tesco!

imported_sword_fixer
-22nd June 2004, 08:10
I thought they only sold red ones!

J_D
-22nd June 2004, 09:29
Originally posted by sword_fixer
I thought they only sold red ones!

Didn't you look in the GM section?

imported_sword_fixer
-22nd June 2004, 10:00
Duhhhhhh

uk_45
-22nd June 2004, 10:09
The tesco value ones have blue and white stripes if that counts