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Mr C
-17th August 2004, 13:01
Does anybody know when or where the BUSA individuals will be this year? I know it is a long time away but I am supposed to be going away for the weekend and don't want to miss it.

Mr C

Naimst
-17th August 2004, 17:16
At a guess I would say the 3rd-5th of December but the Calander is not published yet.
The fixtures have been sorted and sent to the unis on cd but not yet published on the website, so I assume that they have also sorted the calendar of events.

BUSA seem to have done very odd things with the fixtures this year so this could be fun!

doobarz
-17th August 2004, 18:08
I've been asked to referee, so must have a letter some where. It's at Nottingham again.

Juicy
-18th August 2004, 08:32
They'll probably run it on a weekend where there's at least one open and a few A-Grades, just to make sure nobody can come....

Cheetara
-18th August 2004, 14:04
I wouldn't rule out the weekend of 10/11/12th Dec though. The first year I did them they were 9/10/11th Dec.

Rhubarb
-19th August 2004, 13:51
friday 3rd December 12:00 Mens epee & womens sabre
Saturday 4th December 9:00 Mens foil & womens epee
Sunday 5th December 9:00 Mens sabre & womens foil

Nottingham University

Tarmac
-19th August 2004, 13:58
that's the weekend of the hereford and worcester isn't it?

Rhubarb
-19th August 2004, 15:31
it was last year!!!

Tarmac
-19th August 2004, 15:44
excellent! less competition to contend with! :tongue:

fitch
-27th August 2004, 13:42
Originally posted by Juicy
just to make sure nobody can come....

or, as has been the case for as long as I can remember, have it VERY FAR AWAY from Scotland during my uni's exam week.

why oh why oh why don't they move this competition around the country? there must be other venues in the UK that could be used, to make it fairer on the universities that are miles and miles from nottingham....

gbm
-27th August 2004, 14:00
I should hopefully make it to both!
Men's foil is on Saturday at the BUSA individuals (according to PM1 above), and on the Sunday according to this ( http://www.btinternet.com/~fencing/hcalend.html )!
Men's epee and the women's sabre on the Friday, so those people obviously can go to the H&W as well, but Women's Foil, Women's Epee and Men's Sabre clash.

stephends
-27th August 2004, 15:04
So what's the standard at the BUSA individuals like, mostly people who only started at uni or those who had been fencing from a young age and happen to be in uni now, and would as a result beat me into a small piece of epee sliced poo. That's not to say that those who started in uni wouldn't do the same.:dizzy:

Canis
-27th August 2004, 15:30
Originally posted by fitch
or, as has been the case for as long as I can remember, have it VERY FAR AWAY from Scotland during my uni's exam week.

why oh why oh why don't they move this competition around the country? there must be other venues in the UK that could be used, to make it fairer on the universities that are miles and miles from nottingham....

when i was at uni (93-97) there was a year when it was held at stoke? instead! still from sussex uni (brighton) it was far too far north though !

the standard was mixed from extremely good to newbie.

they used to be very hot on equipment - think test guages & weights on each piste! it seemed draconian next to lazy busa matches without impartial ref's etc.

the current student types should be able to tell you if it is any different today but i doubt it

gbm
-27th August 2004, 15:33
Here's an interesting point - Ian Hunter has pointed out that we need 800N plastrons since it is a British Championship (apparently). So presumably the new timings will be in effect...

Canis
-27th August 2004, 15:54
Originally posted by goodbadandme
Here's an interesting point - Ian Hunter has pointed out that we need 800N plastrons since it is a British Championship (apparently). So presumably the new timings will be in effect...

the year that the sabre rules banning cross steping came out being valid from the first of jan, the BUSA tornament followed a week later. the sabre was run according to the old rules !

what they where hot on was equipment meeting specification. fine if you fence with your own kit but how often does club kit get checked for if it isnt broken! one year i got yellow carded for a (club) epee only having one grub screw. as team captain i was juggling 6 fencers on two epee's with legal weight and throw ! also make sure breeches & jackets have the correct overlap etc.

Mantis
-27th August 2004, 16:10
Originally posted by Canis
the year that the sabre rules banning cross steping came out being valid from the first of jan, the BUSA tornament followed a week later. the sabre was run according to the old rules !

Relays started to be used in the BUSA team matches only about 3 or 4 years ago, and I remember seeing in the BUSA handbook at about that time that the matches were to take place according to AFA rules. I would not be surprised if it still says that now. :grin:

ceprab
-27th August 2004, 17:16
Originally posted by fitch
or, as has been the case for as long as I can remember, have it VERY FAR AWAY from Scotland during my uni's exam week.

why oh why oh why don't they move this competition around the country? there must be other venues in the UK that could be used, to make it fairer on the universities that are miles and miles from nottingham....

Unfortunate as it is that you have to travel a long way, it is held in the midlands every year as that way you don't exclude one half or the other of the country. Move it much further north and we in Southampton won't be able to come, move it much further south and start to exclude Newcastle, Durham, Manchester etc.

OK, geographically, it is probably harder to come down from Scotland than up from the South coast, but the overall (not sure about student, but probably similar) population of the island is weighted towards the south east.

***

The standard at BUSA varies from people who have been fencing a couple of years or who are competing in non-favoured weapons 'as a laugh' to people in the top 20 or higher in the rankings. I have faced both newbies who have been fencing for just over a year and the likes of Nick Perry and Tom Cadman over the years there. The events that clash with the Hereford and Worcester will probably be of a lower standard at the very top end than the others as the better people available prefer to go somewhere they might get ranking points. Last year several of them used the men's epee on the friday as a nice warm-up.

Farrago
-27th August 2004, 17:46
It'll hopefully be my first proper competition:) (As long as I can convince one of my friends to lend me some floorspace for a couple of nights anyway:tongue: ) That means there'll be at least one newbie there!

Sparks
-27th August 2004, 18:39
Well, I went down as a newbie last year (1 year of fencing at this point) and didn't do too badly. Got knocked out by the british sabre champ like (Johnson I think his name was?), but hey, who wouldn't!:confused:

ceprab
-28th August 2004, 13:29
Originally posted by Sparks
Well, I went down as a newbie last year (1 year of fencing at this point) and didn't do too badly. Got knocked out by the british sabre champ like (Johnson I think his name was?), but hey, who wouldn't!:confused:

And that very nicely sums up the range of ability.

stephends
-30th August 2004, 11:04
Originally posted by ceprab
And that very nicely sums up the range of ability.

So a pretty wide spectrum, sounds good add that to my (very) little of comps I want to do this year. Can some one post when the entry forms go up, can't find find ought on the BUSA site.

Jambo
-30th August 2004, 12:52
You have to enter through your university. Your club captain should get sent the stuff nearer the time.

Its very good fun, dont be afraid to go if you're new, people are fairly laid back and more experienced guys tend to help rather than try to show off.

doobarz
-30th August 2004, 14:53
And the referees are always nice.

ceprab
-30th August 2004, 22:34
Originally posted by Jambo
You have to enter through your university. Your club captain should get sent the stuff nearer the time.

Its very good fun, dont be afraid to go if you're new, people are fairly laid back and more experienced guys tend to help rather than try to show off.

Not that much nearer. Histrorically they have wanted all entries in by the end of October, with payments. For some unis this really doesn't give enough time to get sorted unless the captain is really on the ball and contacts people outside of club sessions. So make sure you pester him/her/it to keep checking the club pigeonhole.

kitten
-7th September 2004, 02:42
That's true, they've wanted our entries in very early every year, it's always taken me by surprise anyway!

It's at Notts again this year I'm afraid, but I think there are plans afoot to get a proper party night going if that makes you feel any better... which night would people prefer?
Is there anything else they'd like to be improved?

xox

Emma T
-7th September 2004, 11:22
Ok, now this is going to sound thick but if you don't ask you don't find out. I know you need 800N plastrons, but what about breeches and jacket, because at the moment I only have 350N... Also how strict are they going to be about the flexibilty of the sword? I know my main foil is fine (its new and FIE stamped) but I don't know how well my spare foil will hold up if there is a problem...

Thanks

Boo Boo
-7th September 2004, 11:57
Originally posted by Emma T
Ok, now this is going to sound thick but if you don't ask you don't find out. I know you need 800N plastrons, but what about breeches and jacket, because at the moment I only have 350N... Also how strict are they going to be about the flexibilty of the sword? I know my main foil is fine (its new and FIE stamped) but I don't know how well my spare foil will hold up if there is a problem...


350N is fine for jackets and breeches. They don't even test foil flexibility at A-grades, so doubt they will do it at BUSA ;)

Boo

Dave Hillier
-7th September 2004, 12:12
... They will however weight test through out the competition so try and make sure that some one that you are going with has a test weight (Or do what I always used to to and beg borow or steal one from other unis).

Cheetara
-7th September 2004, 12:20
However, long, pulled up socks are necessary, don't have to be white as Birmingham tend to demonstate (lovely stripes ;) ). For some reason people at BUSA are stricter than many other competitions.

Boo Boo
-7th September 2004, 12:24
Originally posted by Dave Hillier
... They will however weight test through out the competition so try and make sure that some one that you are going with has a test weight (Or do what I always used to to and beg borow or steal one from other unis).

Could NEVER understand this - they rarely weight test in the L8 of major opens/senior nationals... and those competing at Senior Nationals are much more likely to have properly legal kit than many uni fencers (especially those who have been fencing for three months and are using club kit...)

Boo

UglyBug
-7th September 2004, 13:34
Originally posted by Boo Boo
Could NEVER understand this - they rarely weight test in the L8 of major opens/senior nationals... and those competing at Senior Nationals are much more likely to have properly legal kit than many uni fencers (especially those who have been fencing for three months and are using club kit...)

Boo

Maybe that's WHY they test at BUSA?!

Canis
-7th September 2004, 14:59
Originally posted by Boo Boo
Could NEVER understand this - they rarely weight test in the L8 of major opens/senior nationals... and those competing at Senior Nationals are much more likely to have properly legal kit than many uni fencers (especially those who have been fencing for three months and are using club kit...)

Boo

it struck me as quite odd when i was at uni (1993-97!)- all the busa team matches where nice friendly matches with a minimum of applied rules and generally presided over by the fencers themselves without a problem - then you go to the busa nationals and you expect the same- but no instead they bus in a load of presidents whose outlook on life suggests that they all work as traffic wardens as the day job .

my thought at the time was that there where many people fencing at universities who had the experience to run the competitions and preside them - why was the outside interference necessary.

Boo Boo
-7th September 2004, 15:09
Originally posted by Canis
they bus in a load of presidents whose outlook on life suggests that they all work as traffic wardens as the day job .

Sounds like fun ;) (could ref if it was nearer home...)


Originally posted by Canis
my thought at the time was that there where many people fencing at universities who had the experience to run the competitions and preside them - why was the outside interference necessary.

Nah, I wouldn't knock that - if it wasn't for outsiders, it would probably be a complete nightmare... it's good to have other people to get things done and to referee (would imagine that foil/sabre refereeing without outside refs would be very difficult - i.e. finding enough who are willing/able to ref in between their own fights)

I guess that it is just a sign of how "relaxed" British domestic competitions tend to be towards equipment... for example, the weapons check at US competitions makes BUSA (and most A-grades for that matter!!!) look tame... (for instance, they do full weapons check including strict body-wire resistance checks).

Boo

Steve
-7th September 2004, 15:18
Originally posted by Boo Boo
....the weapons check at US competitions makes BUSA (and most A-grades for that matter!!!) look tame... (for instance, they do full weapons check including strict body-wire resistance checks).Even at US domestic competitions?

Emma T
-7th September 2004, 15:28
Thanks for all of that. Both my foils are at the correct weight, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem, now I just need to check my plastron...

Mantis
-7th September 2004, 16:05
Originally posted by Emma T
now I just need to check my plastron...

In past years they have just checked that you were wearing one, and if you had an FIE stamp on your jacket they didn't even do that.

UglyBug
-7th September 2004, 16:40
Originally posted by Canis
it struck me as quite odd when i was at uni (1993-97!)- all the busa team matches where nice friendly matches with a minimum of applied rules and generally presided over by the fencers themselves without a problem - then you go to the busa nationals and you expect the same- but no instead they bus in a load of presidents whose outlook on life suggests that they all work as traffic wardens as the day job .

my thought at the time was that there where many people fencing at universities who had the experience to run the competitions and preside them - why was the outside interference necessary.

Number one - I ref and I am certainly not a traffic warden. I'm an accountant and therefore far more anal!!

Number two - I am sorry if you see it as outside interference. It involves a lot of people giving up a lot of time. In the case of sabre refs, as the Womens Sabre is on the Friday, some of us are using up valuable holiday time

Mantis
-7th September 2004, 16:54
I have never considered it as outsider interference and it is, in my opinion, generally well run, albeit chronically last-running as I remember. It is noticeably different from the team competition but I do not think that is a bad thing. If it were left to a minimal organising team with the rest left to the participants it would almost certainly reduce to chaos.

It is a credit to the organisers that they do bring along a bus load of traffic wardens, erm referees. Since a lot of the students are most used to the more relaxed team competition, they could probably get by with just getting referees for the later rounds but I think it would be a lot poorer for it.

Boo Boo
-7th September 2004, 17:43
Originally posted by Steve
Even at US domestic competitions?

Oh yes. I fenced at a domestic level competition over there a couple of years ago. Full weapons checks (masks, lames, foils, body wires...), but a bunch of extremely capable and enthusiastic (?!) armourers. The competition also had full metallic pistes. It was quite an eye opener... But they do charge CONSIDERABLY higher entry fees than competitions over here...

Funnily enough, the BUSA individuals (or UAUs, as they were called then...) were my first ever competition. And that was epee and not foil. So I have fond memories... (guess it got me hooked!)

Boo

ihunter
-7th September 2004, 22:15
I come to BUSA each year because I'm invited, as are the other ref's by an enlightened organisation that realises that in order to give the competitors (students), as good an experience as possible relative to 'competitive' fencing, it requires the assistance of people deemed to know what they are doing. I have to point out to our 'traffic wardens' poster that he's involved in a sport with, heaven forbid, RULES. Most activities that call themselves 'sport', and certainly those in the olympic programme employ match officials to try to ensure fair play. Why should the BUSA champs be different, or has our friend issues with the concept of independent refereeing?


ps. Please don't raise the old one about the fencers being better referees.....................they are not.

pps. wear your plastrons!!!

randomsabreur
-8th September 2004, 06:45
Having just left uni, I will have to say that I definitely appreciate having outside referees at BUSA, just quite depressing that there are never any at the Nationals so instead of focusing on the first fight of the pool, you have to try and kidnap some poor unsuspecting male, or concentrate on reffing most of your own pool.

To be entirely honest at BUSA the way some of the pools work out (Old chestnut I know) there will be a couple of pools with a ton of referees as they have 2 or 3 top 20 fencers in them, and some pools with no fencers who have done more than 2 opens in them. So there may well be a couple of pools that can fend for themselves but there will be more that can't.

Fencers do not make the best referees if they are refereeing in their own pools, but some of the top fencers in this country are among the better referees, if nothing else because we appear to have a distinct shortage of refs at sabre who aren't current fencers, excepting the likes of ihunter and Keith. (Apols to anyone I have forgotten!)

Canis
-8th September 2004, 09:45
Originally posted by ihunter
I come to BUSA each year because I'm invited, as are the other ref's by an enlightened organisation that realises that in order to give the competitors (students), as good an experience as possible relative to 'competitive' fencing, it requires the assistance of people deemed to know what they are doing. I have to point out to our 'traffic wardens' poster that he's involved in a sport with, heaven forbid, RULES. Most activities that call themselves 'sport', and certainly those in the olympic programme employ match officials to try to ensure fair play. Why should the BUSA champs be different, or has our friend issues with the concept of independent refereeing?


ps. Please don't raise the old one about the fencers being better referees.....................they are not.

pps. wear your plastrons!!!


Ian,

I am, like I expect the rest of the fencing community is, fully aware of and apreciative of the fact that there are people like yourself put a lot of effort(and free time) into presiding at comps!

- Thankyou! :)

I will explain in further detail what i was trying to say I was suggesting that the presiding was draconian relative to other comps - i was expecting similar presiding /management to the public schools for example.

what i was relating to was my personal experiences at the 1993-94UAU( BUSA) individuals. I was Captain of the sussex uni team that year and i'd tried to put together as large a contingingent as possible. I tried to take everyone that had fenced for my team that year.
As all eight of us where up there for all three days we all entered every weapon.
Wilst most of my fencers had their own regulation kit for their weapon the chances where that they didn't for the other weapons! Our club didn't have much kit at that time. we got by- by all our personal kit being treated as club kit and altering a lot of weapons to suit different fencers as the rounds progressed (admittedly my problems as team captain - no-one elses ).

what angered me was that the rules relating to kit where being enforced way more than any other competition i had been to before. and it appeared that a couple of presidents involved where being gleeful about it ! example:i was getting yellow carded every time i fought for only having one regulation epee on the piste- my spare epee was in the hall -it had been remounted right handed and was in someone elses hand that day!

students don't have much money to spend on fencing kit - fact! neither do most uni fencing clubs .
one of the reasions i stopped fencing after uni was that all my kit had worn out over the three years i was there and i couldnt find the cash to re-equip due to other pressures!

in short i think that if the the powers that be want to be more exacting in equipment regulations -fine but to apply them more firmly to a student comp (where everyone by definition is on a budget) than elsewhere is ridiculous!

doobarz
-8th September 2004, 10:52
Originally posted by Canis

i was getting yellow carded every time i fought for only having one regulation epee on the piste- my spare epee was in the hall -it had been remounted right handed and was in someone elses hand that day!
...
in short i think that if the the powers that be want to be more exacting in equipment regulations -fine but to apply them more firmly to a student comp (where everyone by definition is on a budget) than elsewhere is ridiculous!

The most shocking thing is that you see this as being applied more firmly than other places - when I referee I would card for this regradless of where I was and who was fencing.

gbm
-8th September 2004, 12:17
Originally posted by ihunter
ps. Please don't raise the old one about the fencers being better referees.....................they are not.

I definitely agree with that one! I would be happy to be refereed by Ian Hunter (since I now have two regulation weapons, bodywires and an 800N plastron)!

From what people are saying, it seems to me like the way the BUSA individuals are run is the way all competitions should be run! :)

Personally I think the lack of weight testing is disgusting. Especially when Opens say things like 'weight tests from the L8'. Because that basically means 'the rules on spring strength do not apply until the L8'.
Based on why I would be apprehensive of weight-testing people, I think a lot of referees who were reffing at a poule would be unwilling to use a weight, even if there was one lying by the side of the box, because of:
a) inconvience to the other fencers, especially if they are a lot 'superior' to you (i.e. to a rabbit like myself, everyone!)
b) The horrible possibilities should someone's foil actually fail...

doobarz
-8th September 2004, 12:32
Originally posted by goodbadandme
Personally I think the lack of weight testing is disgusting...
Based on why I would be apprehensive of weight-testing people, I think a lot of referees who were reffing at a poule would be unwilling to use a weight, even if there was one lying by the side of the box, because of:
a) inconvience to the other fencers, especially if they are a lot 'superior' to you (i.e. to a rabbit like myself, everyone!)
b) The horrible possibilities should someone's foil actually fail...

Also, if as in many cases fencers are refereeign themselves, if I fail your weapon, might you try and do me on some other technicality?

Mantis
-8th September 2004, 13:28
Originally posted by ihunter
ps. Please don't raise the old one about the fencers being better referees.....................they are not.

A major problem is when the most outspoken fencer (not necessarily the best referee) is fencing and uses the 'I know the rules better than you' argument to his advantage. I witnessed this last year when a top 50 epeeist, who will remain nameless, suceeded in getting his opponents winning hit annulled. His reasoning was that he himself was off the piste and so there should have been a halt before the hit. I fail to see how he could have been aware of that without it being intentional.

ihunter
-8th September 2004, 16:55
Originally posted by Mantis
I witnessed this last year when a top 50 epeeist, who will remain nameless, suceeded in getting his opponents winning hit annulled. His reasoning was that he himself was off the piste and so there should have been a halt before the hit. I fail to see how he could have been aware of that without it being intentional. [/B]

This,of course is an incorrect interpretation of a rule designed to cover an entirely different situation from that which occured. I'm amused that ANYONE thinks that leaving the pist with one or both feet protects one from being hit. On a constructive note I can see a need for a refereeing seminar at this comp.(see previous thread in the refereeing section) and if the organiser can spare me for, say 3/4 hour, each day I'll arrange something for the slackers hanging around the hall.

Rdb811
-8th September 2004, 22:47
Originally posted by goodbadandme
I definitely agree with that one! I would be happy to be refereed by Ian Hunter (since I now have two regulation weapons, bodywires and an 800N plastron)!

From what people are saying, it seems to me like the way the BUSA individuals are run is the way all competitions should be run! :)

Personally I think the lack of weight testing is disgusting. Especially when Opens say things like 'weight tests from the L8'. Because that basically means 'the rules on spring strength do not apply until the L8'.
Based on why I would be apprehensive of weight-testing people, I think a lot of referees who were reffing at a poule would be unwilling to use a weight, even if there was one lying by the side of the box, because of:
a) inconvience to the other fencers, especially if they are a lot 'superior' to you (i.e. to a rabbit like myself, everyone!)
b) The horrible possibilities should someone's foil actually fail...

The problem with weight tesig is that it takes up time, but that no one has a problem withit - and there's a been a couple of times when all thre weapons have gone and a friend or the ref have fixed the weapon while my oppopent kindly waited.

I dn't enforce the equipment rules at local events - we're supposed to encourage people and it's a only a day out when all's said and done.

randomsabreur
-10th September 2004, 07:00
Although I agree generally to equal enforcement of all rules, the one about having a second working weapon at piste side could be relaxed for the BUSA individuals as pretty well every uni has to pass kit around and it would be nice to be able to encourage as many people as possible to come to the competition rather than restrict who you will let enter on kit restrictions. Surely the yellow card should come out if there is no working weapon, only when the 1st weapon has failed. With a certain degree of organisation, you can get away with the weight test issue, by checking the silly pointy things before you unplug, and sending one of the clubs better looking female fencers to flirt with the armourers to get them to help with whole ton of foils at the beginning of the day!

gbm
-11th September 2004, 19:11
Of course, while the rule restrictions could probably be relaxed for sabre as they are less likely to go wrong (except in a terminal sense!) than foils or epees, foils and epees (especially if poorly maintained club foils dragged along and rarely used, often with a weak spring and/or a loose barrel etc. etc. etc.) go wrong with extreme regularity...

Nick_C
-27th November 2004, 15:39
Does BUSA have any NIF points? I would presume not since it's closed (to non-students), but I thought I read somewhere that if a competition appears on the BFA results page, then NIF points are awarded.

Does anyone know?

Mantis
-27th November 2004, 16:35
Originally posted by Nick_C
Does BUSA have any NIF points? I would presume not since it's closed (to non-students), but I thought I read somewhere that if a competition appears on the BFA results page, then NIF points are awarded.

Does anyone know?

Yes, it does not have a NIF. It does, however, generally have a high standard.

Foilling Around
-27th November 2004, 19:34
No BUSA does not have ranking points attached. The only restricted entry events to attract ranking points are "A" Grades and world and european champs where the UK can only send a limited number of people.

Listing on the results page merely indicated that it is a registered event. Leon Paul events are on the results page as well.

Maxim
-5th December 2004, 20:29
Well, it is finally over. Very enjoyable weekend, although fencing all three weapons proved a bit tiring.

Danny_Boy
-5th December 2004, 23:22
I had an interesting weekend too. I was down in London for a No Sweat (an anti-sweatshop campaign I'm involved in) event at ULU. After it was over I was enjoying a drink with a few mates in 'Duck and Dive' (which if anyone doesn't know is a bar/restaurant @ ULU.)

I look over at the bar and lo and behold - someone in a Tempest-produced Great Britain tracksuit. It could only be a fencer! I was in the presence of greatness, clearly. So I went over to see who the great man was. His face looked oddly familiar. I was sure I'd seen him or a picture of him somewhere before. He spoke with a Scottish accent. He said his name was Martin. He told me he'd just come back fomr the BUSA individuals.

So, I was at ULU talking to a Scottish fencer named Martin. Who could this mystery superstar in the GB trackie be?

Yes, friends - it was true. I had , totally by chance, met the legend we know as Neo. And I was not disappointed. He regaled me with some smutty yarn about getting his weapon out on the train. It was a true honour for me and I am only disappointed I didn't manage to get his autograph.

(I should also mention that he had a friend with him, whose name I believe was Lucy, who'd apparently been to the Junior World Championships once. But frankly, as far as I'm concerned actual talent pales into pathetic insignificance next to sordid innuendo and a cheeky Scottish grin.)

Although the struggle against sweatshop labour (the reason I was at ULU in the first place) is of course very important, I feel that it comes in a clear second place compared to meeting Neo. It was undoubtedly the highlight of my weekend.

-

Danny Boy

Aer
-6th December 2004, 02:39
Completely OT but i was please with my result: 55th after winning my L128 15-14 :D

or at least that was what they put up on the board....

Eddie
-6th December 2004, 12:59
are the results up. I couldn't view them.

Rhubarb
-6th December 2004, 13:01
Originally posted by Boo Boo
Could NEVER understand this - they rarely weight test in the L8 of major opens/senior nationals... and those competing at Senior Nationals are much more likely to have properly legal kit than many uni fencers (especially those who have been fencing for three months and are using club kit...)

Boo

perhaps its because BUSA has I higher percentage of 'real' referees than many opens. They seem to treat their refs really well and are rewarded with agood attendance.

Juicy
-6th December 2004, 14:02
Oh what fun it was - though I missed the 'pleasure' of seeing Neo (who I often see slavering over women at ULU and trying out lewd 'chat up lines' before being brutally rebuffed) I had a lovely time despite fencing like crap. ;)

Just a quick comment re: the referees - we had a brilliant ref for the WF, his decisions seemed to be perfect and he was very friendly all the way through the matches. It all adds to a good weekend :-)

Maxim
-6th December 2004, 14:29
are the results up. I couldn't view them.

I dont think they are up, at least I could not find them.

From what I know:

Mens Foil

1. Corin Beck
2. Maxim Izotov
3. Scott Brodie
3. Phil West

Mens Epee

1. Tristan Lane
2. Tom Benett

Mens Sabre

1. Julian Nelis
2. ?? Brenda
3. ?? Brenda
3. Neil Hutchison

UglyBug
-6th December 2004, 16:29
Men's sabre - 2nd Thomas Brenda, 3rd Ricky Brenda

Women's sabre - 1st Catriona Austin, 2nd Elaine Hughes, 3rd Naomi Farmer & Lynette Low

gbm
-6th December 2004, 22:30
I never got an actual ref, though the reffing wasn't too bad (except until possibly my last fight).
Only got two wins in the poule, seeded 75th, and then met Neo. :grin:
There was one fencer in my poule though who completely failed to notice that both fencers were entirely off the edge of the piste with both feet and were actually moving up and down a piste entirely of their own imagination - and this after I pointed it out for him.
There was another fencer refereeing who thought you could slightly bend your arm in an attack as long your hand kept moving forward. He first denied that it was the extension of the arm that was all important, and then pulled out the old 'well, that may be how it is in the rules, BUT' excuse. Other than that serious and obvious evidence of a major character flaw, however, he seemed a nice enough guy ;)
My DE fight was a disaster (at least that how it felt for me). The other guy was nice enough, but he just didn't strike me as someone who had been fencing very long, despite having a seeding of 50-odd.
I really felt like I should/could win make it my third ever DE victory. All but one of the fencers in my poule had seemed harder.
I was leading through the start, but I was having real problems bringing up ripostes on his chest. He was simply charging in, and I was simply riposting, but I wasn't getting the light (so so so frustrating). And a lot of what I at least thought were very good line-closing parrys of sixte-direct-riposte were being either given as 'beat and parry together' or 'beat attack'. And then, coupled with my own complete incompetence, he started to pull ahead. The only thing I had which was working reliably (and now I'm thinking why didn't I just keep doing it!) was beat wiggle-wiggle-wiggle-hit attack. To top it all, since parry-ripostes were either not coming up or not being given, I tried a PIL disengage.
I thought it was beautiful. The ref disagreed, and felt that as I had dipped my arm slightly in the disengage, and thus lost the line (possibly true, interpretable I suppose?).
So then I lost, maybe a little down to the ref and mostly due to me being useless. It's so annoying to lose when you know nearly all of the points against you were simply when you missed...

And then a fencer (I won't call him a referee, even though he thinks he is) I know (who had fenced the day before and was around with my opponent on the Saturday), when I was discussing this afterwards, completely denied the existence of PIL, with the usual statement 'line isn't an attack' (actually true), but not qualified by the specific rules on PIL.
He then pointed out that he must be right, since he was a referee. I then pointed out (possibly in more colourful language) that he must be a very BAD referee to have absolutely no idea of PIL whatsoever (most bad referees 'merely' get it wrong on a few details e.g. footwork). I promptly fetched my copy of the rules, and chased him down the hall showing him the relevant sections.
That at least felt vaguely like doing something (good or bad I don't know).

So I had a very bad day. I am now suitably motivated NOT to repeat it.
It was fun though, in its own funny sort of S&M way...

Aer
-6th December 2004, 23:18
hard lines GB&M. what was the score?

I had a nice DE... :confused: - I seeded low 60's i think, so I expected a toughish de, but i thought i was unlucky in my poules to be 3-3 and not 5up 1down. (5-4 to Brodie after i was leading 4-2! - now that WOULD have made my day!)

My L128 was against a guy from loughborough, and equipment problems aside, was a close match, which i enjoyed a lot :) Maybe not so much when i went 14-13 down, but the hidden sabreur in me was revealed when i got the 15-14 hit :)

L64 fight was against the runner up, and I'll say sorry again :confused: - i wanted to fence my friend in the L32 despite the fact that Izatov (sp?) was far far far superior to me.... ho hum... Sorry again, and well done in the comp, if you read this.

All in all a good day, got to beat Neo in a warm up :) and met GB&M. A good start of the weekend leading to H&W open, nice to have a bit of a run of form.

Maxim
-6th December 2004, 23:41
Aer. Nothing to be sorry about. We all occasionally get over-excited and it does not help if you fence someone who shouts in a foreign language all the time, complains to the ref about you covering the target and lands a very hard flat-flick on your back :)
Anyway, well fenced and good luck in your next event.

Mantis
-7th December 2004, 07:58
There is a write-up in today's Telegraph. I tried to find it on the online edition but they tend to be a bit tardy updating the site. Maybe it will be there in a day or two.

ChubbyHubby
-7th December 2004, 09:06
Max, who did you beat? Scot or Phil?

Maxim
-7th December 2004, 09:33
Max, who did you beat? Scot or Phil?
Phil, 15-11 I think.

UglyBug
-7th December 2004, 10:36
Corin Beck managed to make proper heavy weather of his draw - he dropped 2 fights in his poule, so his draw was:

L32 Domonic O'Mahoney
L16 Alistair Brooke
L8 Laurence Halsted
L4 Scott Brodie

Maxim
-7th December 2004, 12:30
Corin Beck managed to make proper heavy weather of his draw
Add Neo in the L128 to that list:)

Danny_Boy
-7th December 2004, 15:29
L8 Laurence Halsted

Good result for Corin, then, beating Halsted.

Impressive.

-

Danny Boy

Maxim
-8th December 2004, 09:51
The results are now published. http://www.britishfencing.com/busa04.html

Juicy
-8th December 2004, 13:25
God, how depressing. And just as I'd managed to forget the disaster of this weekend's performance.... :upset:

hokers
-8th December 2004, 14:11
Congratulations Kitten, two good results there.

At the risk of repeating myself from last year, surely you're competing at the wrong weapon, as again you've done better with another than at epee? ;)
Sure you can't do the Barwell for Guildford this weekend?

kitten
-8th December 2004, 16:34
Hey Hokers - cheers for that :grin:

I think I surprised everybody on sunday (myself most definately included...)

In theory I could do the Barwell, if rents were willing to pay petrol....

Reckon I need to find some kind of masters/phd so that I can compete again at Epee - am the laughing stock of the club at the mo!

Quite like the new foil timings though (although they were a bit of a shock) seems to be epee but with parrys - perfect! (for me)

kitten
-8th December 2004, 16:37
PS - in ref to the earlier part of the thread - I thought the refs were fantastic this weekend - especially for the foil. Pity we couldn't have them in the poules though

pigeonmeister
-9th December 2004, 12:24
I was really impressed with Corin Beck, he is an amazing fencer and winning the BUSA's 3 times in a row is a real achievement. He absolutely mullered Alistair Brooke and fenced really well against Halsted. I didn't see the final but I'm sure he won it in style.

But on a personal note (and if I'm honest) this is a pitifull post of self congratulation- I CAME 5th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (forget anything I ever said about the new timings!!!)

Wow- first individual competetion in over 4 years and I finish above the British number 2. Not sure that will happen again.
Helped that I had a blinding pool was ranked 2nd and didn't have to face the run of death that Beck faced in his DE's. That said I got brutalised by Brodie in the L8- I got up 7-6 then he won 9 of the next 10 hits! Brum Uni did well though, Phil 3rd, Me 5th and Alex 16th. I also came 21st in the Epee which was unexpected (got mullered by some big Czeck bloke after being 8-3 up)

What a good venue, and nice bacon rolls as well, also quite funny when my mate had her mask confiscated on the friday- only to be returned on the Sunday for safety reasons. They were being really strict, in my first fight of the day the ref called en guard, ready, fence and immediately called halt and gave me a yellow for not having my socks pulled up enough. (i got another yellow and a red in the pool for not having my glove fastened properly and turning in a fight- which was fair enough) I thought in the first fight of the day she could have had a word about my socks b4 the fight- it's not the Olympics.

Aer
-9th December 2004, 16:54
it went from that, at BUSA, to no refs, no checks at H&W...

just after i got my 2nd foil fixed too :(

Neo
-10th December 2004, 13:00
Originally posted by Aer
it went from that, at BUSA, to no refs, no checks at H&W...

just after i got my 2nd foil fixed too :(

I think it was some of the female refs time of the month....


Anyways, to the point at hand...

DID ANYONE FIND A SEE THROUGH LEON PAUL VISION 2000 MASK LEFT AT BUSA? IF SO, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE RETURN IT. I SUSPECT I CAN'T AFFORD TO REPLACE IT ATM.

If anyone has the contact details for the organisers could u send me them.... :(

Neo
-10th December 2004, 13:13
Originally posted by Danny_Boy

(I should also mention that he had a friend with him, whose name I believe was Lucy, who'd apparently been to the Junior World Championships once. But frankly, as far as I'm concerned actual talent pales into pathetic insignificance next to sordid innuendo and a cheeky Scottish grin.)

lol @ that post.

the cute girlie in question was Sarah... :transport

Danny_Boy
-10th December 2004, 15:04
the cute girlie in question was Sarah...

Sarah...Lucy...whatever. It all sounds that same across a noisy bar in London when you're dazzled by the glow of genius eminating from Neo's every pore.

-

Danny Boy

Canis
-10th December 2004, 16:05
Originally posted by Danny_Boy
Sarah...Lucy...whatever. It all sounds that same across a noisy bar in London when you're dazzled by the glow of genius eminating from Neo's every pore.

-

Danny Boy


Glow of genius from every pore? (who leaves the competition hall without his 150 mask:tongue:

dont you mean Reak of bull**** from every pore? :grin:

mind you was this sarah real? he wouldnt stop going on about her last night?

Rdb811
-10th December 2004, 18:42
I'd better add that this another Sarah.

Boo Boo
-11th December 2004, 11:05
Originally posted by Canis
Glow of genius from every pore? (who leaves the competition hall without his 150 mask:tongue:


That is quite a surprise to me too.... I would have thought that anyone wearing a GB tracksuit in a bar/restaurant would probably have their mask slung casually under their arm and be twizzling a foil with their free hand... :tongue: ;)

Boo

Neo
-11th December 2004, 17:17
Originally posted by Canis
Glow of genius from every pore? (who leaves the competition hall without his 150 mask:tongue:

More like 200.

Now located. Been handed into the sports centre. phew...

dont you mean Reak of bull**** from every pore? :grin:


mind you was this sarah real? he wouldnt stop going on about her last night?

ssssh people can hear you! :tongue:

I gotta say thanks to the fencing community as a whole for being nice and honest - were it not for that I might be stumping up another 190 for a new mask.

Rdb811
-11th December 2004, 17:31
Originally posted by Neo


Now located. Been handed into the sports centre. phew...



That's a relief.

Neo
-11th December 2004, 17:35
Originally posted by Rdb811
That's a relief.

They were nice enough to stick it in the post for me too.

Just seen the DE tableau for club competition... should be fun ;)

ps. I might be fencing for Kingston tommorrow...

Neo
-11th December 2004, 17:47
Originally posted by Juicy
Oh what fun it was - though I missed the 'pleasure' of seeing Neo (who I often see slavering over women at ULU and trying out lewd 'chat up lines' before being brutally rebuffed) I had a lovely time despite fencing like crap. ;)

Just a quick comment re: the referees - we had a brilliant ref for the WF, his decisions seemed to be perfect and he was very friendly all the way through the matches. It all adds to a good weekend :-)

I was only there on the Saturday and I wasn't slavering :tongue:

I was however completely rat arsed come the end of the night - no sleep for two days, plus no food that day + alcohol = rather ****ed neo :tongue:

kingkenny
-13th December 2004, 13:25
http://www.leonpaul.com/news/Competion_reviews.htm

Small review with some pictures.
Would be better but I am so busy at the moment. I hate Christmas!

gbm
-13th December 2004, 13:36
Originally posted by Kingkenny
I hate Christmas!

Bah humbug! :grin:

UglyBug
-4th January 2005, 14:32
Originally posted by Neo
I think it was some of the female refs time of the month....



?? That was me in a good mood....

Neo
-4th January 2005, 14:55
Originally posted by UglyBug
?? That was me in a good mood....

Were u the scary sabreuress by chance? :tongue:

UglyBug
-4th January 2005, 15:02
Don't think so, I'm not scary

Aidan
-13th January 2005, 12:20
Ok, it's slightly late for comments on BUSA, but I'm bored.
I hope I'm the nice and acccurate referee Juicy Lucy referred to! Though I'm not sure I got absolutely everything right! I fenced men's foil (39th - my lowest in almost ten years), going out to Brodie 15-7 (the shame) after winning my first DE 15-1. I refereed epee and women's foil - it was possibly the friendliest refereeing competition I've ever been at - the BYC's, and EYC's were bloody awful - pushy coaches and parents, although the Winton was fun.

Ho hum - see you all at next year's comp (unless by some miracle the PhD is finished. Nice to see Dave Hillier is also still around - get a move on - science PhD's are half the length of ours!

Aidan

Juicy
-14th January 2005, 16:48
Originally posted by Aidan
Ok, it's slightly late for comments on BUSA, but I'm bored.
I hope I'm the nice and acccurate referee Juicy Lucy referred to!

No you're not. But I'm sure you were wonderful too. :grin: