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Mischa
-23rd May 2003, 11:48
Just wanted to get people's opinions on the London Bid for the 2012 Olympics...

We'll be competing with Paris, Havana, Madrid, New York, Leipzig and Moscow for the honour.

Muso440
-23rd May 2003, 11:54
It would be nice to be able to go and watch the fencing, admittedly, but other than that I think it's a pretty crap idea. I work in London and live 25 miles away, and there is NO WAY that the city could cope with the extra crowds, it would be utter hell. (It's bad enough now for god;s sake). And I find it pretty unlikely that the government could get its act together in time to build all the necessary stuff anyway - look what has happened with so many other big projects.

I read a good article in the Independent a few days ago (probably on the web) that pointed out that the bid is not coming from any love of sport, but becuase it might be quite good business. Other cities are much more clued up and acutally *interested* in the sports .

Personally, if it happened, I would stay *well* away from the city - apart from the fencing of course.

Gav
-23rd May 2003, 12:19
Potentially I think it's a good idea. Although I agree with the post above that overcrowding may be a problem I think that London will cope. We have to remember that a lot could happen between now and 2012. My only concern is that, yet again, it seems very biased to the SE to place the bid there. As has been discussed in other posts there are other places in Britain that could do with the investment and also have the potential to host such an event [given the current 9 year lead time].

Cheetara
-23rd May 2003, 13:59
The way I understood London was chosen was that the IOC wouldn't even contemplate giving it to another british city.

That's just what I heard from the news.

I do think it would be good if it came to London though. Maybe it would acually do something to encourage sport in this country-or is that just me living in cloud cuckoo land again? Some universities don't even fund sport properly (certain south yorkshire ones in particular)

Muso440
-23rd May 2003, 18:27
Originally posted by Gav
Although I agree with the post above that overcrowding may be a problem I think that London will cope.

Reeeeaaaally??? Where is it you live again Gav? Done the London rush hour recently?.... ;)

Muso440
-23rd May 2003, 18:28
Originally posted by Cheetara
The way I understood London was chosen was that the IOC wouldn't even contemplate giving it to another british city.


That seems odd. THere isn't any rule about it having to be a capital city is there? Germany is nominating Leipzig and that's about the size of Manchester.

Jambo
-23rd May 2003, 20:37
Yes but this is the UK where everything of any significance must go on in London in case the southerners get confused. Manchester?? Where's that then???

Sorry if that sounds rude but the point is still valid (feeling tempermental tonight! No comments about sabreurs please:) )

Saxon
-23rd May 2003, 21:19
The point is valid indeed, but remember that the Olympic bids are simply a TWO YEAR-LONG bribe and freebie sesh for the IOC committee, and most of the other main bids go for the capital cities.

Manchester is excellent (commonwealth seemed to go down well), as are Birmingham, and several more, but if you're trying to impress 126 dodgy old men, then they aren't going to care about transport infrastructure, previous sports event successes (or otherwise - Picketts Lock and Wembley, anyone?), it all comes down to how much you spend on the committee.

In my not very humble opinion.

Rdb811
-23rd May 2003, 23:33
Originally posted by Gav
My only concern is that, yet again, it seems very biased to the SE to place the bid there. As has been discussed in other posts there are other places in Britain that could do with the investment and also have the potential to host such an event [given the current 9 year lead time].

Actually they don't - it is a provincial conceit to assume that anywhere of than the capital to assume that they are capable of hosting the Olympics or that the world would be interested in going to.

The investment argument ignores that the fact that there are run down parts of the capital. In any event, London is being bleed dry by the government to feather bed their friends up north and I've got the council tax bills to prove it.

i do object to having to pay for the thing when the money should be coming from central governemnt - does anybody know how other recent Olympics were funded or where the profits went.

I agree that the governments motivation is because it has been foreced into it, not becasue it really understand what it's doing. But that's true of anything they do.

Rdb811
-23rd May 2003, 23:34
Originally posted by Muso440
Germany is nominating Leipzig and that's about the size of Manchester.

But nowhere near as wet or industrial.

Muso440
-24th May 2003, 06:56
Originally posted by Rdb811
Actually they don't - it is a provincial conceit to assume that anywhere of than the capital to assume that they are capable of hosting the Olympics or that the world would be interested in going to.


Ouch! <duck>

You could say that it's a (arrogant?) Londoners' conceit to assume that *they* are capable of hosting the Olympics blah blah. I would say they're not capable at all....

And the 'world being interested in going to' thing is irrelevant: people will go the Olympic games wherever it is, surely?

And is being wet and industrial a reason *not* to host the games? (London doesn't do all that well on that front either.)

Saxon
-24th May 2003, 06:56
Originally posted by Rdb811
Actually they don't - it is a provincial conceit to assume that anywhere of than the capital to assume that they are capable of hosting the Olympics or that the world would be interested in going to.


Really.

So a city the size and profile of Manchester wouldn't be able to host? Can you tell me the last time an event even the size of the Commonwealth Games was held in London?

And your council tax is paying for those up north? The only thing your council tax pays for is the mismanagement, overspending and underfunding of whichever bunch of losers managed to get themselves onto your local gravy train.


Sorry Roger, but I have zeeero sympathy with your argument - there are areas just as run down in all major cities, but some of them actually have the enthusiasm and optimism to see past their local condition and think that they could do better.



Saxon
Who is being far too opinionated to be healthy at this time in the morning...

Saxon
-24th May 2003, 07:08
Thanks Muso - glad it wasn't just my early morning haze making me a scrathcy old b*****d

Muso440
-24th May 2003, 07:10
I dunno, maybe I'm in early morning haze-mode too ;)

Saxon
-24th May 2003, 07:14
Nah - Roger's just in late-night back-from-pub arrogant southern tw*t mode. Insert vowel of preference.

:moon:

He'll recover - he's a nice guy really.

Gav
-24th May 2003, 12:11
Originally posted by Muso440
Reeeeaaaally??? Where is it you live again Gav? Done the London rush hour recently?.... ;)

Actually it was about 3 weeks ago. I spend a lot of time in London.

Muso440
-24th May 2003, 12:13
Originally posted by Gav
Actually it was about 3 weeks ago. I spend a lot of time in London.

Hmmm, okay, maybe I'll let you off then.

But I still think you're deluding yourself if you think the transport system could cope.

Rdb811
-24th May 2003, 19:04
Originally posted by Saxon
Nah - Roger's just in late-night back-from-pub arrogant southern tw*t mode. Insert vowel of preference.

:moon:

He'll recover - he's a nice guy really.

I had been sinking a few, but I'm not a southerner, I just happen to live here - I was wonderng who'd jump to that conclusion.

To be honest, if I was on the IOC I wouldn't vote for anywhere in Bitain - certainly not after th 2005 Athletics World Championships fiasco

We should be able to do these thing at a drop of a hat (like teh Commonwealth Games) but have a comlete inability to put the infrastucture in place.


BTW - Euro 96 had the Finals in London.

Rdb811
-24th May 2003, 19:07
Originally posted by Muso440
Hmmm, okay, maybe I'll let you off then.

But I still think you're deluding yourself if you think the transport system could cope.

Well it cpuld cope if Crossrail were built, the Ease London Line extended and some of the worst Tube stations rebuilt to teh same standard as teh Jubile Line Extension.

Saxon
-24th May 2003, 22:41
Originally posted by Rdb811
I had been sinking a few, but I'm not a southerner, I just happen to live here - I was wonderng who'd jump to that conclusion.

...and you're getting the mindset very well through osmosis. I'm not from the north, either, but I still object to the bigoted preaching that - frankly - anywhere outside london has to put up with on a regular basis.


To be honest, if I was on the IOC I wouldn't vote for anywhere in Bitain - certainly not after th 2005 Athletics World Championships fiasco

...which was caused by an incoming sports minister trying to get a name for himself by changing an already decided World Championships to his home city of Sheffield and therefore both branding everywhere outside London as crap, and at the same time proving that the UK government couldn't organise an orgy in a brothel.

By all means tell me if I'm wrong about this, I would love to be.


We should be able to do these thing at a drop of a hat (like teh Commonwealth Games) but have a comlete inability to put the infrastucture in place.

And the North should therefore be penalised for being able to run a successful event



BTW - Euro 96 had the Finals in London.

And the rest of the event was where exactly?



Well it cpuld cope if Crossrail were built, the Ease London Line extended and some of the worst Tube stations rebuilt to teh same standard as teh Jubile Line Extension.

...which was finished two years late, and over 1bn over-budget...

Now that's organisation

:moon:

Rdb811
-25th May 2003, 22:58
Originally posted by Saxon
...and you're getting the mindset very well through osmosis. I'm not from the north, either, but I still object to the bigoted preaching that - frankly - anywhere outside london has to put up with on a regular basis.

I get around the country enough to realsie there is a big differnce in terms of scale to the rest of the country - what I objected to originally was the view that the bid was 'biased, again towards the SE' - my council tax has gone up 50% in the past two years, due bth to Red Ken and to the effective redistribution of council tax receipts (I will attempt to find a source for this) - Lambeth had actually managed to hold the evel of council tax for the years prior to this.

Rdb811
-25th May 2003, 23:01
Originally posted by Saxon


...which was caused by an incoming sports minister trying to get a name for himself by changing an already decided World Championships to his home city of Sheffield and therefore both branding everywhere outside London as crap, and at the same time proving that the UK government couldn't organise an orgy in a brothel.

By all means tell me if I'm wrong about this, I would love to be.




Sadly not - the case wasn't helped by the inability to build a stadium for it - whih they did sucessfully in Manchester.

Rdb811
-25th May 2003, 23:03
Originally posted by Saxon



And the North should therefore be penalised for being able to run a successful event




Eh ??? - it was a sucessful event, just not as big as the Olympics.

Rdb811
-25th May 2003, 23:08
Originally posted by Saxon





...which was finished two years late, and over 1bn over-budget...

Now that's organisation

:moon:

And the signals still don't really work ...

But the archectures fanteastic - with nine years to go it should be possible to overhaul the worst stations.


In any event, the extra crowds for the Olympics would be dwarfed by the usual rush hour..

Muso440
-26th May 2003, 06:55
Originally posted by Rdb811
In any event, the extra crowds for the Olympics would be dwarfed by the usual rush hour..

Er, don't really get your logic here.

Usual rush hour = bloody atrocious

Usual rush hour + extra Olympic crowds = even more atrocious, surely?

Rdb811
-26th May 2003, 16:33
I think the rush hour is so bad that a few more can't make it any worse.

Muso440
-26th May 2003, 18:58
LOL.

That brings all kinds of entertaining (unless youre in them) scenarios to mind.

Maybe they'll start employing people to shove you onto the train like in Tokyo?

reposte
-14th June 2003, 16:14
I think you're missing the point.

The debate on who's going to host the Olympic games is not an internal British matter, a suitable target for your inside talk about the class differences as it were between London and the rest of England.

British Olympic committee must have considered what suitable attraction will be enough to land Britain the games, and as
far as the rest of the world's concerned, only London seems attractive enough.
This may open a new can of worms, but that's none of the worlds fault, is it?
At least Leipzig has the backing of the German government, and without sounding culturally cut and thrust it does offer
a greater tourist attraction then any other city in England other then London, and the German government seems to have the
rep for being able to pull it off.

Personally speaking, as a would be participant/viewer, if it's not London, I'd rather see it on the continent or New York.

Neo
-24th June 2003, 16:06
Originally posted by Saxon
Nah - Roger's just in late-night back-from-pub arrogant southern tw*t mode. Insert vowel of preference.

:moon:

He'll recover - he's a nice guy really.

actually I would be inclined to agree with Roger, and I'm much more a northerner than you are... trust me (ever heard of a place called Glasgow?) :grin:

Bleedingwolf
-26th June 2003, 01:15
Manchester has proved that it has the capacity and the knowledge to host a major sporting event, but it would not be fair on the rest of the country for Manchester to have two big sporting events within 20 years when the country as a whole has had to wait 40 years since the last really big event (the World cup).I live in Manchester and attended some of the events during the commonwealth games and the organisation was fantastic and the city has never looked better. The good news is that the investment has continued to roll in despite the genral economic downturn and Manchester is quickly putting forward a case to become the countries third city outright (although having lived in Birmingham for two and a half years, I would say the second city on everything except size).

Manchester was blessed in 1996 with the most unexpected slum clearance scheme and the cheapes demolition job in history when the bomb went off and from that the city has grown, fortunatley the terrorists don't seem to be bombing any other city, so I suggest that any other city will have to really motivate its council and inhabitants in order to be a change, a much harder task than one would imagine, so it seems as though we are stuck with London.

Based upon the evidence, London wil fail (as Manchester did twice before getting the Commonwealth games) and a huge bill will have been run up by the Government which will be converted into council rates aand less money for hospitals and schools. There are far more important issues in this country than an expensive gamble which may turn into profit (remember Sydney was the first olympic games to make a profit)

3 Card Trick
-26th June 2003, 07:03
Manchester proved just how much of a boost a major event gives to the city and country across the board. Sport, infrastructure, community spirit, evry area gets a lift.

London is the one and only GB bid.

Back it wholeheartedly, scream it from the rooftops, let's get the message across to the IOC that we really care about the games and we want this bid to succeed.

The last Olympic bid was bedevilled with negative publicity fromn within GB, let's not make that mistake again.

myopic
-27th June 2003, 15:00
My flatmate, whose a pretty competent athlete was recently vociferously claiming that Falkirk would have made a great host. Odd how convincing he could make the idea sound after a few pints

I did have visions of the American tourists visiting Scotland in Trainspotting though.

:bash: :flush: