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Aoife
-25th December 2004, 22:49
Okay, I have some kids (not personally mine, ones I coach) who are 9-12 so can't enter opens, but want to do comps.

What are these LPJSeses? How does one enter them? Are there any in Kent? Can they be hopped in and out of, or do they have to all be done/done in order? (As to be honest I might be able to get them to the nearest one, but none of my fencers can really travel). Do they need breeches at that age?


Also... are there any other comps for kids of such an age to have a go at? In Kent? (I know about the regionals, but couldn't order electric kit in little sizes in time!).


Ta very muchly.

Baldric
-26th December 2004, 08:41
Hi Aoife

Blimey - there is a big question! I am assuming that you are only coaching foil?

Starting with the LPJS - this is a series of kids comps held all over the country. There is no obligation to enter all of them, many kids only enter the nearest one or two. I believe that there are 10 foil comps in the series.

However, there are none in Kent, the nearest being Eton, Cambridge and Portsmouth. The others are Nottingham, Leicester, Ashton (Manchester), Bude, Edinburgh, Durham and Wrexham (new this year)

It is an excellent series, and the standard of fencing, particularly at U11 and U13 can be extremely good, at least for the top twenty or so "travelling circus" fencers who do the whole series.

Leon Paul publish a booklet explaining the series rules etc, and giving dates and contacts for each comp. You can get an online version from the Leon Paul Website, and following the links to "Junior Series".

At the risk of being kicked of the site, I would also recommend the Premier Series. It is a similar series of comps, but they are concentrated in the south - three in Surrey, one in Essex and two in Bristol. (The Premier is sponsored by another fencing equipment supplier - sorry Barry!) More details from

Premier Series (http://www.fencing.org.uk)

Alternatively, why not find another club nearby and organise a team comp? Better still, find two other clubs and have a triangular match, or start a mini league?

I don't know the Kent set up, but in Hampshire/Southern region there are junior team comps for both county and region which attract quite large entries.

We also have a Youth Development Officer on the committee of Hants Fencing. You might want to contact Kent to see if they have someone similar.

A couple of team comps is an ideal way to start competitive fencing - it gives kids a chance to win a couple of fights, and can be less dispiriting than turning up at a strong LPJS and getting hammered all day!

Most local comps, LPJS and Premier Series events will let kids fence in trackie bottoms, but some insist that the pockets are stiched shut (although I have never seen this checked!)

I have a list of all known kids comps in the south of England, along with dates, venues, contact details etc, which I maintain for a couple of clubs. If you want a copy, PM me you email addy.

Good luck.

Baldric.

Baldric
-26th December 2004, 09:46
One other thing I just thought of.....

........if you enter lots of fencers for a competition, you will be expected to provide a ref or two.

Foilling Around
-26th December 2004, 10:09
One important thing is that LPJS have 2 rounds of pools and Premier series have one.

LPJS was set up to give youngsters experience and to provide a friendly atmosphere. Premier series was set up to get rid of these boring pools and get on to the competitive bit as quickly as possible for the better fencers.

Pardon me if I am a bit unfair in my assessment, but I have run an LPJS in Nottingham for 10 years and I've only ever visited one Premiers series.

Baldric
-26th December 2004, 12:33
Originally posted by Foilling Around

LPJS was set up to give youngsters experience and to provide a friendly atmosphere. Premier series was set up to get rid of these boring pools and get on to the competitive bit as quickly as possible for the better fencers.

Pardon me if I am a bit unfair in my assessment

More than "A bit" unfair FoilingAround, IMHO.

I was at every (foil) LPJS this year and all but one of the Premier Series. (Missing the one that clashed with Eton LPJS)

In terms of welcoming new kids and their parents, and in the standard of fencing, organisation and reffing, there is nothing to choose between them. You are right to mention the single round of pools, but then not every parent is as daft as you and I are - content to sit for hours while pools and DEs drag on interminably.

Personally, I don't see the point in "rivalry" between series of kids fencing competitions - the more the merrier!

27ab1c
-26th December 2004, 14:01
I'll back up all that Baldric's said.

My youngster started last year's under-13 LPJS and struggled to avoid coming last, but the varied competition helped her fencing no end. By the end of the year, she was often in the last 16 and this year has been regularly in the last 8. Very importantly, too, she has made quite a lot of friends on the way.

When it comes to rankings, that's also something else for them to aim at (prizes for top 8). These are based on the fencer's best few results, so there's no need to travel to the other end of the country, unless you really want to (Baldric junior really wants to!).

Haven't tried the Premier Series yet but plan to do the u14s in 2005. They have u9, u11 and u14 age groups, while the LPJS are u9, u11, u13, u15 and u17.

Foilling Around
-26th December 2004, 15:14
You're quite right Baldric, fencers and parents are the same no matter which series of events they go to. I suppose I hark back to the fact the Premier was set up as a rival because certain people could not manage to control and manipulate the LPJS the way they wanted. It has moved on a long way from there as more people get involved without the past baggage. Like yourself.

Aoife, go on to the LPJS section of the Leon Paul website then email Simon Trinder for a 2005 series booklet. Alternatively PM me with your address and I'll send you one.

uk_45
-26th December 2004, 15:38
One thing to keep in mind is I think that (this is baised on similar comps up my way) is that LPJS I seem to remeber being electric. Judging by your last comment in your post would this be a problem?

gbm
-26th December 2004, 16:02
As far as I know, there are no non-electric competitions in Britain at all (because they are just plain silly :tongue: )

Baldric
-26th December 2004, 16:03
It's amazing all the things that you forget, once you have been doing it for a while!

For any proper competition, all your fencers will need to be "Musketeer" members of the BFA. You can usually join at the competition, but it does tend to clog up over-worked check in desks.

For a fuller picture of the LPJS, try this link

The Leon Paul Series Guide (http://www.leonpaul.com/lpjs/format.htm)

Most of the points made apply to other competitions.

pinkelephant
-26th December 2004, 22:32
Originally posted by goodbadandme
As far as I know, there are no non-electric competitions in Britain at all (because they are just plain silly :tongue: )

Oh yes there are. There is a thriving North West Junior Series at which the younger age groups fence steam foil - which allows them to not wear breeches. We insist on strong trousers with pockets TAPED over, not sewn up.

uk_45
-27th December 2004, 17:43
Woo just shows how much attention is spend when I'm at the NWJS.

Great comps tho!

Whens the next?

pinkelephant
-28th December 2004, 16:42
Presumably you mean the Epee/sabre ones, which are NOT steam? Dates not set next, but will be in the Summer term.

uk_45
-28th December 2004, 17:54
Yeah or I may be twlked into doing a little bit of foil.

Aoife
-29th December 2004, 13:48
Well we just got a nice Pfizer grant so I can get a few electirc kits (we're a free multi-school club with no internal funding whatsoever at the moment :( )

I'll take a look at both to see where is most feasible (why do I liev in a fencing black hole???).

We've had a few small comps with local teams; but they've not had the chance to try electric kit yet. I know it's throwing them in the deep end a bit with the LPJS as they've never fenced electric before, but hey, mybfirst electric fight was the SE U/18s, and my second was the BYCs.... becing thrown in the deep end is a strong incentive to pick it up quickly! :grin: (not to mention finally rid one or two of the idea that you get an electriv shock when you get hit.... for some reason my explanation seems too dull :shrug: )


if you enter lots of fencers for a competition, you will be expected to provide a ref or two.

Well, ahem, I'll only be entering three or four :confused: and, urm, yeah. That and nobody at my club has been on any reffing courses or anything... that and to be frightfully honest I can't ref electric.... unless I have four corner judges I fall to pieces. (Darn backwards steam club!) Sorry.


Anyway, I'll PM people who offered things and mull it all over for the new year.


Ta.

Insipiens
-29th December 2004, 14:45
Maybe you should let them keep thinking they will get electric shocks as encouragement to parry. :)

pinkelephant
-29th December 2004, 16:57
Number one son learned to parry octave after having his appendix removed.

Aoife
-1st January 2005, 20:32
Ouch!

A girl at my club last year was a known whinger, and would frequently whimper at the lightest of hits, so when she kept complaining that hits hurt her stomach my coach (then club coach) told her it should make her want to parry more, and instructed us (in a joking way) to aim for her stomach in bouts.... the next day she had her appendix removed :confused:

My coach felt a little guilty :)

vil
-2nd January 2005, 10:25
Originally posted by pinkelephant
Number one son learned to parry octave after having his appendix removed.
That must have been a pretty solid hit! :grin:

Winwaloe
-4th January 2005, 14:40
have not gone to a Premier Series for some time and now only concentrate on LPJS. Found that the Premier Series was becoming a problem with very biased refing and a very unsporting attitude. Understand that a number of other clubs have also dropped out. However, to be fair, I have not been to a Premier Series comp for a year or so and the issues may well have been resolved. I certainly hope so.

Baldric
-4th January 2005, 19:09
Originally posted by Winwaloe
have not gone to a Premier Series for some time and now only concentrate on LPJS. Found that the Premier Series was becoming a problem with very biased refing and a very unsporting attitude. Understand that a number of other clubs have also dropped out. However, to be fair, I have not been to a Premier Series comp for a year or so and the issues may well have been resolved. I certainly hope so.

I went to all but 1 Premier Series events last year (2004).

There were a couple of incidents of "unusual" reffing, at one of the comps, but no worse than, say, Durham LPJS. To be honest, the best reffing was when the more experienced kids reffed themselves.

I should say that the Farnham and Bristol events were absolutely faultless - as good as the best that I have attended.

If you happen to live in the South, then the logistical advantages of the Premier outweigh the (small) issue of some questionable reffing at one comp.

I would still recommend it.

Winwaloe
-5th January 2005, 08:58
Good to know, many thanks -