PDA

View Full Version : Silly Newbie Question



Aoife
-5th June 2003, 13:01
Okay then.....

What is tang?

How do I get tang?

Is it related to citrus fruits?

Mantis
-5th June 2003, 13:05
Originally posted by Aoife
Okay then.....

What is tang?

How do I get tang?

Is it related to citrus fruits?

The tang is the part of the blade that you attach the handle to.

srb
-5th June 2003, 13:12
The tang is the end of the blade that the grip goes on. Traditionally, a french grip foil is split into four parts.

The blade is split into;

the foible (the thin bit),
the middle section (the middle section - d'oh),
and the forte (the fat bit by the guard)

The rest is the tang. Strictly speaking I don't know if a pistol grip has a tang, or whether only a french grip has one. Also I don't know if whether you lick the bit under the pistol grip you get a zesty refreshing experience, or just cut your tongue on the thread?

srb

Sasori
-5th June 2003, 13:22
Originally posted by Aoife
How do I get tang?

It's a zen thing...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I think you're asking about how to get a set in your tang. This just means you bend the tang of your blade. If you're right handed, you set the blade so it goes slightly to the left and down, and if you're left handed vice versa. Means straightening your arm will mean the point is travelling straight for your opponents chest, and not off into the air...alledgedly...

Sasori
-5th June 2003, 13:23
Originally posted by srb
Strictly speaking I don't know if a pistol grip has a tang, or whether only a french grip has one.

Yes, pistol grip blades do have a tang. It's anything after the forte really...

Hudson
-5th June 2003, 16:16
how you adjust your tang is down to the individual but i'm sure i read somewhere that there was a legal limit you couldn't bend it past???

Muso440
-5th June 2003, 18:02
Hey, so I'm not the only one who asks silly newbie questions! :) (When does one stop beign a newbie, incidentally?)

I heard that the tang is the sticky out bit on your mask that goes over the top of your head - is that a complete lie? If so, what is that thing called?

Hudson
-5th June 2003, 18:04
not a clue, got a contor fit mask now.

Muso440
-5th June 2003, 18:16
What's one of those?

(another stupid newbie question)

Hudson
-5th June 2003, 20:24
this is the contour fit system, alot more comfortable
http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/118C_mask_contour_fit_assembly.jpg

Aoife
-5th June 2003, 21:09
So then, if I buy a brand new french, do I have to set my tang, or is it pre-set?

I've got a second hand one, so I'm sort of assuming the tang is done already.


(When does one stop beign a newbie, incidentally?)

It's 7 months and counting for me Muso, how about you? :)

Mantis
-5th June 2003, 21:58
Originally posted by Aoife
It's 7 months and counting for me Muso, how about you? :)

Erm, around 12 years (give or take). Can I still be a newbie?

Rdb811
-6th June 2003, 00:37
Originally posted by Muso440
(When does one stop beign a newbie, incidentally?)


After a lifetime, apparently.:yoda:

bufc99
-6th June 2003, 00:44
nearly six months to the day.

Just to add another silly newbie quesiton, is there an advantage to a bend in your tang?

Rdb811
-6th June 2003, 00:49
Yes - see the 'Curve in Blade thread - ibasically it compensates for the fact that if you hld something striaht in your hand's natral grip,it will point up and out from the line of your forearm

Rdb811
-6th June 2003, 00:57
Originally posted by Muso440


I heard that the tang is the sticky out bit on your mask that goes over the top of your head - is that a complete lie? If so, what is that thing called?


I think it's actually the 'sticky out thing on the back of the mask'.

Muso440
-6th June 2003, 08:41
Originally posted by Aoife

It's 7 months and counting for me Muso, how about you? :)

Er, is that 7 month since you started or 7 months until you're officially no longer a newbie?

At the moment I feel like I'm going to be a newbie for ever :( (I fenced crap yesterday, okay? One week off and I'm back to square one :confused: )

Hudson
-6th June 2003, 09:23
Originally posted by Aoife
So then, if I buy a brand new french, do I have to set my tang, or is it pre-set?

I've got a second hand one, so I'm sort of assuming the tang is done already.




A second hand one should have had the tang set by the previous owner. When you buy new you can specify (not spelt right i know but i don't care) how far you want the tang set. My advice would be go to the shop and try pre set blades till you find on you like.
Then as you progress you can set them yourself as you require them. I've got on set which is great against leftys but not to good on rightys,.

srb
-6th June 2003, 12:30
The set on the tang is fairly important. If you have the time and the facility, it is best to discuss it with the supplier you buy the foil from. I would normally go to a shop to pick the blades I want (I get my blades from Blades!). After I have chosen the blade I used to get the shop to set blade for me while I waited. This meant I could check the set there and then. However Graham now knows what blades and set I like, so I can just give him a broken foil, and pick up the new one at a later date.

It annoys me when I see juniors using a french grip that has no set on it. It just makes them hold the foil like a poker, and slash at each other. It also makes finger work harder.

The degree of set is to some extent a personal choice. When I started fencing again I insisted that the tang had a very small set to it. Since then I have increased the degree of set twice to what I use now. There are very few experienced fencers that use a blade without a set (Linda Strachan?), so I would try some friends foils first, and if you can't go to the shop ask them to put a medium set on the blade.

I wouldn't try and set a blade yourself without being shown how to do it. You need to strip the foil down and set it in a vice, otherwise you risk bending the forte. The set should involve a short radius bend in the blade where the forte and tang meet. If the tang is bent you won't be able to put your grip back on the blade.

The degree of set has increase over the years. The blades have got heavier, the guards and allen nuts have got lighter, so the centre of gravity has moved away from the hand. This combined with a bigger set makes flick hits easier. However there is a maximum limit to the set, as an assembled foil has to be able to pass through a specific sized hole to be legal.

srb

Boo Boo
-6th June 2003, 13:41
I believe that Linda actually uses an upwards set (rather than the usual downwards set) - its very unusual, but it suits her style very well.

(Aoife wouldn't like fencing Linda - she is left handed, very good and has a WICKED Prime reposte...)

Boo

wingnutLP
-6th June 2003, 13:50
The limit on set is simply that no part of the handle must jut out beond the guard (ie the whole weapon must fit within a straight cylinder the diameter of the guard) this applies also to any bend in the blade itself.

Hudson
-6th June 2003, 16:34
cheers wingnut, knew there was a rule but not got my rule book handy.

neevel
-6th June 2003, 18:02
Originally posted by wingnut
The limit on set is simply that no part of the handle must jut out beond the guard (ie the whole weapon must fit within a straight cylinder the diameter of the guard) this applies also to any bend in the blade itself.

That's not quite so-- the rule is that a foil must be able to pass through a 12 cm diameter, 15 cm long cylinder with the blade parallel to, but not necessarily coaxial with, the axis of the cylinder. For a foil with a guard that's smaller than the 12-cm maximum (most guards are in the 10-11 cm range), the blade can be offset from dead center when passing through the gauge to compensate for the end of the grip projecting a bit out side the limits of the guard. If you've got a 12 cm guard, then you can't have the grip projecting beyond the guard.


-Dave

srb
-6th June 2003, 18:26
I didn't know the size of the hole, but I knew it was bigger than the standard guard. The standard guard used in the UK is about 10 cm. I use an oversize guard which is about 11.5 cm. They look a bit like dustbin lids in comparison to the normal guards, but they offer better protection to your little finger.

srb

Aoife
-6th June 2003, 20:03
Also I don't know if whether you lick the bit under the pistol grip you get a zesty refreshing experience, or just cut your tongue on the thread?

Hold on, hold on!

The thread??? What's that???!



Er, is that 7 month since you started or 7 months until you're officially no longer a newbie?

It'll be seven months since I started tomorrow.

Eegahd, I've been doing it for far longer than it feels.

Mantis
-6th June 2003, 20:08
Originally posted by Aoife
Hold on, hold on!

The thread??? What's that???!

The thread is what you screw the nut on - it is the groove you find on any screw or inside any nut.

You only need it if you are using a handle without a pommel so your are unlikely to have it on your french grip foils.


It'll be seven months since I started tomorrow.

Eegahd, I've been doing it for far longer than it feels.

I know the feeling. I didn't realise it had been 12 years (or maybe 13 - I really cannot remember) until wrote the post some way up in this thread.

Hudson
-6th June 2003, 20:20
Originally posted by Aoife
Hold on, hold on!

The thread??? What's that???!





welcome to the world of basic engineering :grin:

if your at the nationals i'm sure you can get a crash course from an armouer.

srb
-6th June 2003, 20:27
That's not strictly true. Both pistol grips and french grips can have threads.

The blades I buy are universal blades. They are supplied with a tang that is about 11 cm long and threaded (just like the thread on a bolt) with a male thread along its whole length.

Both a french grip and a pistol grip are drilled so they slot onto the tang. Some pommels are drilled and tapped with a female thread. So the french grip is slid on, and the pommel is screwed onto the thread.

If the blade was going to be used for a pistol grip, the tang is cut down to a length of about 6cm, the pistol grip slid on the tang and then the allen nut is screwed on to tighten the grip as before.

srb

Mantis
-6th June 2003, 20:40
Right, srb. I did think that after I posted but couldn't be bothered editing. ;)

srb
-7th June 2003, 09:21
I forgot to mention that obviously the tang isn't threaded all the way to the forte, or the grip would just spin round. The first 3 cm of the tang are square in profile to stop this. It then makes the transition to to a circular profile to enable it to be threaded.

srb

Aoife
-7th June 2003, 16:55
Male and female threads eh?

I see.

(in other words, I see nothing.... why do threads have genders?)

Mantis
-7th June 2003, 21:02
Originally posted by Aoife
Male and female threads eh?

I see.

(in other words, I see nothing.... why do threads have genders?)

Not entirely sure what male and female mean for threads, but a male electrical connector is one with pins while a female connector has holes. For example, a standard electrical plug is male while a mains socket is female.

Hudson
-7th June 2003, 21:08
could you mean left and right hand threads????

Moose
-7th June 2003, 21:29
I male thread is threaded on the ouside

A female thread is threaded on the inside.

srb
-8th June 2003, 19:05
It is a simple sex thing.

If you have a nut, and a bolt. The bolt has a male thread, and goes into the bolt which has a female thread. So yes the male thread is on the outside, and the female thread is on the inside.

Also, yes you can have left and right handed threads, but these tend to be specific to industries such as cycling, and the water industry.

Clean water (drinking water), and dirty water (sewage) have valves with opposite threads to reduce the risk of being used in the wrong place and prevent cross contamination.

Fixed wheels cogs on track bikes have a reverse thread to prevent them coming undone when cycling.

srb

vikkia
-8th June 2003, 21:21
Hey Pub finder General have you been finding to many pubs today? Thats how I type when I have had to many.!!:grin:
Sorry to go of the thread but I couldn't help it!!:o

vikkia
-8th June 2003, 21:24
Whoops I messed that up! I didn't read to the end of the posts. Oh well it's been a long day:o :o :o

Rdb811
-8th June 2003, 23:28
Originally posted by vikkia
Hey Pub finder General have you been finding to many pubs today? Thats how I type when I have had to many.!!:grin:
Sorry to go of the thread but I couldn't help it!!:o

No - I try to give my liver a rest on Sunday's - last week I found a pub had sprung up in Wimbledon next to the ub I wanted to go to (I was giving directions from memory as I hadn't been there for a bit). Fortunatley Iit was pretty good - the on I suspected as awful was visited by mistake by a couple of the tribe and they didn't like it.

Hmmm .. usually when I boast something electrical blows up:confused:

ceprab
-9th June 2003, 13:06
You also get left threads on (hydrogen I think) gas cylinders and right on others to make it harder to get those wrong.

ceprab
-9th June 2003, 13:11
Originally posted by srb
I didn't know the size of the hole, but I knew it was bigger than the standard guard. The standard guard used in the UK is about 10 cm. I use an oversize guard which is about 11.5 cm. They look a bit like dustbin lids in comparison to the normal guards, but they offer better protection to your little finger.

srb

I really could have done with one of those when I started. There was a guy who wasn't very good at hitting the target but was ace at two things: Slapping my inside thigh (Smarts!) and somehow flicking the tip of my little finger, at least every other week. I spent an entire year with blood under the fingernail.:(

srb
-9th June 2003, 17:32
Linsay Watkiss sells them. Send him a PM asking about them.

srb

Aoife
-9th June 2003, 20:17
Slapping my inside thigh (Smarts!)

Ouch! I hate that! For some months in the start of our club I had purple slashes right across my inside thigh. Only get them occasionally now (especially since I got breeches! :) )




It is a simple sex thing.

If you have a nut, and a bolt. The bolt has a male thread, and goes into the bolt which has a female thread. So yes the male thread is on the outside, and the female thread is on the inside.



Ahhh, why didn;t somebody just say 'imagine threads having sex'.... it would have been SO much simpler! :)

Moose
-10th June 2003, 06:00
Originally posted by Aoife
Ouch! I hate that! For some months in the start of our club I had purple slashes right across my inside thigh.

I'm resisting here, really I am, hard to imagine but I'm managing it. :grin:




Originally posted by Aoife
Ahhh, why didn;t somebody just say 'imagine threads having sex'.... it would have been SO much simpler! :)

Because we thought you'd reached your maximum daily innuendo intake :tongue:

DrT
-10th June 2003, 09:06
[QUOTE]
The thread??? What's that???!
[QUOTE]

I often wonder that myself on this forum!

Tubby
-10th June 2003, 13:44
:grin: very good

Hudson
-10th June 2003, 14:33
Originally posted by Moose
I'm resisting here, really I am, hard to imagine but I'm managing it. :grin:





Because we thought you'd reached your maximum daily innuendo intake :tongue:

she dosen't have a limit.

Moose
-10th June 2003, 16:56
Oh she does, she just hasnt reached it yet. I don't want to see what happens when she does get there tho.

Hudson
-10th June 2003, 19:25
could be risky. you stay back were its safe and i'll find out. Leave it to the pro's:bash:

Aoife
-11th June 2003, 11:49
Oh and you're an expert Hudson!!!!!!

Hudson
-11th June 2003, 16:57
yep, i like to think so :grin:
you'll just have to find out