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Aoife
-4th January 2005, 22:55
At what time should you notify the referee if you are unhappy with a percieved breech of the rules, for instance if your opponant does not have their socks pulled up, or has a blade bent well in excess of 2 cm?

I understand that it can be done at the start of the bout, but if say a sock falls down during a lunge could you mention it in the next halt? Or would that be interupting or something?


Should you even question these points or is it up to the ref to allow a bent sword or droopy sock?

I've once pointed out an opponant's socks as we were attaching ourselves to the spools, and she took it well (I did point out that I only mention it because I'd rather not accidently cut anybody- which is true, and why I do like fencing people with socks down).

Rdb811
-4th January 2005, 23:23
breach not breech (I know Fen Bog Poly's standards aren't very high, but even so).

In between points, but don't make a meal of it - unless it is a safety issue (e.g. collar undone) , in whch case stop the bout and raise your hand whle doing so.

Hudson
-5th January 2005, 11:26
if your not happy with your opponents weapon or kit either before the bought starts or as above between points highlight it to the ref. If your still not happy you can request the DT. not done alot at opens but i've seen it happen. A young kids foil looked like a bent fishing rod and when the ref did nothing the fencer requested the Dt to clear it up.

Foilling Around
-5th January 2005, 23:55
For safety issues, at any time.

Also for issues which lead to a disadvantage to you. The main two being the bend on the foil and, mostly for women, hair covering the lame.

Be polite, but don't be pedantic or you will get a "reputation".

randomsabreur
-6th January 2005, 12:02
If you are going to be picky about kit, make sure your own is perfect first, i.e. socks, size of lame, straightness of blade etc. Otherwise certain referees will take great pleasure in enforcing any rule on you.

If anyone could work out how to keep socks up at all times, I would be grateful for any tips, mine seem to last half a poule and then become terminally droopy for the rest of the day...

pinkelephant
-6th January 2005, 12:04
Originally posted by randomsabreur

If anyone could work out how to keep socks up at all times, I would be grateful for any tips, mine seem to last half a poule and then become terminally droopy for the rest of the day...

Have them long enough to go under the elastic on your breeches. Or there's always the old Boy Scout thingies.

randomsabreur
-6th January 2005, 12:08
That's where they start the day - under the elastic, and one of the pairs I have even goes over the knee. however by end of poule front sock is doing Norah Batty style wrinkles around ankle while back sock remains where put.

I don't think that garters would be overly comfortable (or fetching) so will tolerate pulling the things up at 1 hit intervals.

Saxon
-6th January 2005, 12:41
Gaffa tape, just below the knees - not too tight, as the socks should only need a little encouragement to stay under the breeches.

Alternatively, two of those external bionic knee-braces. A little excessive, I suppose, but you could put motors in them and just sleep while they do your footwork exercises for you.

randomsabreur
-6th January 2005, 16:06
Might just improve my footwork...

The gaffa tape has the same objection as garters - how uncool...

Maybe I should just be disorganised and have to buy new socks for each competition I do...

Boo Boo
-6th January 2005, 16:21
Or just get chunky legs (like me) - that tends to hold your socks up just fine ;)

Leonie H
-6th January 2005, 16:23
Originally posted by randomsabreur

The gaffa tape has the same objection as garters - how uncool...



You could always co-ordinate the tape with those horrible Oxford socks you insist on wearing...

Leonie

randomsabreur
-6th January 2005, 19:21
Those horrid oxford socks are the only ones that stay up for even half a poule - all others don't even make it through the warm up

Ulrika
-6th January 2005, 19:51
Originally posted by randomsabreur
If anyone could work out how to keep socks up at all times, I would be grateful for any tips
Braces..? :grin:

gbm
-6th January 2005, 20:10
I think some means of keeping socks up is actually a requirement of the rules - in my case the elastic cuffs on the bottom of my breeches (and my kneecaps!) do an admiral job.
You could just get really really really really long socks, mine go well past my knee, but if you got ones long enough you could tie them to your braces :grin:

Saxon
-6th January 2005, 20:31
Not commenting on the chunkiness (or otherwise) of RS's legs...

I think we have hit on your solution - if you don't like nice silver gaffa tape, then SOCK SUSPENDERS!!!

It's the way to go, believe me. Not from personal experience, mind you - I make sure my socks go all the way up.

Ulrika
-6th January 2005, 20:39
Originally posted by Saxon
SOCK SUSPENDERS!!!
Oh...ooops... This is what I meant, but wrote braces instead. :transport

I was trying to make at joke, which I now understand *ahem...GBM* must have fallen flat to the ground.
But hey, it turned out quite funny anyway although I sure would need some LOOOOONG socks to be able to tie them to my braces (if I had any)!!!

Ok, mock the swede everybody! :moon:

Naughty foilist
-7th January 2005, 07:25
I got some socks from Uhlmann recently that more than covered my knees and I don't have super slender calf muscles.

They gave a decent ten centimetre overlay between the breeches cuff and the top of the sock as was discovered when Vil thought I was protesting a bit much at an epee hit to the knee on a club night. My opponent had found that bit on the outside of the knee cap with hardly any padding.Two layers won't protect your from broken skin.

(Vil wasn't my opponent that night but my team mate.)

randomsabreur
-7th January 2005, 12:25
What do we reckon - black lace or shiny silver - or would that breech the rules (if they were on the outside)

As Saxon very gently implied, my legs aren't the slimmest... Surely it is OK if I pull the wretched thing up each hit, then I come on guard correctly attired at least.

So how high do Saxon's socks go? Waist high, or beyond?

Saxon
-7th January 2005, 13:25
Just make sure you don't have three black stripes and you're probably okay.

My socks start the day about four inches above my knees, and stay there.

Possibly not about size of leg, but shape? Also probably newness of sock too.

Rdb811
-7th January 2005, 13:55
I bought some Polish socks off Marek that are fairly "springy" and have a lot of net like material at the top that might have better 'stayupiness' - I never suffer from this problem.

Tarmac
-7th January 2005, 14:00
i use the Battling socks which PBT sell... never had any trouble with them...go over my knee and stay up really well.
i usually use LP on front foot (slightly more padding)
and pbt on my back (single lining - less 'slippy')

both stay up fine but i find my foot 'slips' inside the LP ones...

Xev
-7th January 2005, 14:00
Not a problem with socks falling down as such, but where is the best place to get extra long socks from? I'm always left with about an inch gap between the tops of my socks and the bottom of my breeches (not sure whether its a problem with the breeches or the socks being to short to be honest, as finding breeches long enough that don't cut off circulation in my knees isn't easy either).

J_D
-7th January 2005, 15:19
I use football socks, they come over my knee and have never given me a problem

Tarmac
-7th January 2005, 15:24
how tall are you Xev?
and what size foot?
not that i have a fetish..

J_D
-7th January 2005, 15:26
you mean you're denying it?

Tarmac
-7th January 2005, 15:27
well..not denying it..it's just not foot orientated...

Rdb811
-7th January 2005, 15:32
If Xev is who I thnk she is, she is tall and possibly the breeches are too short - Tarmac has met her - I regularly walk onto her point.

Xev
-7th January 2005, 15:37
About 6 foot or so. Most places don't realise you can be female and over 5 foot 8.

Unless you're an epeeist...!

Xev
-7th January 2005, 15:43
I am, and I think you could be right.

But finding longer breeches is probably even more difficult than finding longer socks.

Tarmac
-7th January 2005, 15:46
Originally posted by Rdb811
- Tarmac has met her - .
Have I?
never quite get used to that do you??!?!!

"But finding longer breeches is probably even more difficult than finding longer socks."
LP make made to masure stuff i believe...for a fee...

Rdb811
-7th January 2005, 15:56
Originally posted by Tarmac
Have I?
never quite get used to that do you??!?!!



At the Sir William Perkins.

Not really, to answer the second bit.

Tarmac
-7th January 2005, 15:58
Poot.

that's gonna really annoy me now...

Xev
-7th January 2005, 16:06
Hit my head on the pub ceiling when I stood up.

Not often you can say that...

Tarmac
-7th January 2005, 16:10
Gotcha!
the one with the hematite ring?

i think even c'est moi had trouble with that ceiling!!:tongue:

Xev
-7th January 2005, 16:16
That'd be me.

Very 'local' pub, that one!

Aoife
-10th January 2005, 11:29
The best way to get long socks, that I've found, is to stop growing at about 5 foot :)

LP's adult breeches are horribly too long for me, coming to only 2 or 3 inches above my ankle. The children's breeches are just right coming a little over my knee. All of my socks come above my kneecap. And thoses stripey 'over the knee' socks that one can buy, come up to mid-to-high thigh on me :(

Tarmac
-10th January 2005, 11:59
Originally posted by Aoife
All of my socks come above my kneecap. And thoses stripey 'over the knee' socks that one can buy, come up to mid-to-high thigh on me :(

You'll start Neo off on one talking like that!

Aoife
-10th January 2005, 12:22
Okak, quick subject shift :confused:


Talking of long stripey socks.... could you wear those in comps if they had no logo on? Or is there a regulation on sock material?

gbm
-10th January 2005, 12:24
Originally posted by Aoife
Okak, quick subject shift :confused:


Talking of long stripey socks.... could you wear those in comps if they had no logo on? Or is there a regulation on sock material?

There is no regulation on sock or glove material AFAIK.
Certainly plenty of people wear non-fencing socks.

Aoife
-10th January 2005, 12:26
Yeah, the big blue book seems to say that all matieral for FIE comps must be 800N and have all the right lables of quality; but seeing as I have never seen socks with a CEN or FIE mark, and it doesn't specifically mention socks, I suppose there's no rule.

Australian
-10th January 2005, 20:41
Originally posted by Aoife
Yeah, the big blue book seems to say that all matieral for FIE comps must be 800N and have all the right lables of quality; but seeing as I have never seen socks with a CEN or FIE mark, and it doesn't specifically mention socks, I suppose there's no rule.

there is no specific FIE stamp for gloves, lames. bodywires, shoes or socks.

Canis
-11th January 2005, 10:31
Originally posted by Tarmac
Have I?
never quite get used to that do you??!?!!

"But finding longer breeches is probably even more difficult than finding longer socks."
LP make made to masure stuff i believe...for a fee...

I was under the impression that LP would do longer arms/ legs to order for no extra cost?

IMHO longer breeches are a lot better as your kneecap ends up better protected being behind breeches (350 newton +) rather than behind your sock

Xev
-11th January 2005, 11:06
It does cost a bit extra (I checked at Cambridge on Sunday).

The alternative, I suppose, is mens breeches, which are slightly longer. Although how big a difference there is in the cut (hips and so on) I'm not sure of...

Ulrika
-11th January 2005, 13:55
According to the LP online shop "Extensions to arms and legs are free but may take a few weeks and jackets can be made to measure for a 30% surcharge (please call for details)."


Allstar (http://www.allstar.de/index.php?name=EZCMS&page_id=14&menu=600) uses a different (different from LP I believe) size 'system' and lets you chose between, stocky, normal and long sizes.

gbm
-11th January 2005, 15:36
Originally posted by Canis
IMHO longer breeches are a lot better as your kneecap ends up better protected being behind breeches (350 newton +) rather than behind your sock

Breeches are required by the rules to overlap your entire knee, as are socks.

Winwaloe
-12th January 2005, 13:56
Originally posted by randomsabreur

If anyone could work out how to keep socks up at all times, I would be grateful for any tips, mine seem to last half a poule and then become terminally droopy for the rest of the day... [/B]


Get some rugby socks with ties on the top, they work (or have done with me for the last 100 yrs or so) if not try shooting sock garters, you might look a bit eccentric but that's half the fun of fencing!!

Winwaloe
-12th January 2005, 14:03
back to the start - - Common sense really has to come in. If the collar is undone or the bib resembling a Komodo dragon then this can be dangerous so say something. If your opponent's lame is too small, the fastening the wrong side, the body wire clipped on front also worth saying something as these points may be to your disadvantage. If their socks have fallen down, you can see their "T" shirt or you don't like the colour of their nail varnish it probably does not matter too much.

Aoife
-14th January 2005, 22:57
Nail varnish! Don't even get me started! Blue as well! BLUE! :eyerise:

stevejackson
-16th January 2005, 12:59
Depending on circumstances I would ask the referee to do something if a Tee shirt is visible - I'd be concerned about it trapping a blade and guiding it between jacket and breaches or the jacket and breaches not overlapping.

I suggest if you feel that something is not safe you're justified in requesting the referee to halt the bout and expressing your concern. If the referee doesn't agree then it's (as always) their responsibility but you've done your best to keep things safe.

gbm
-16th January 2005, 15:53
I'm probably getting this wrong, but I think one fencer at the Aldershot was made to replace his breeches with tracksuit bottoms because they the breeches had no braces? I'm almost certainly getting it wrong, but that's what I heard.

J_D
-16th January 2005, 16:03
I believe he was required to wear them over his breeches

gbm
-16th January 2005, 16:22
Originally posted by J_D
I believe he was required to wear them over his breeches

That would make more sense. Although I can't find anything in the rules requiring braces; presumably the 10cm overlap when on-guard rule was not being obeyed.

It is in the rules however, on a completely unrelated note, that breeches must be fastened below the knee. I presume this is the elastic cuff bit?