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tigger
-22nd March 2005, 09:03
Well it starts tomorrow (Wednesday) with -

Women's Sabre (cadets) 56 entries - GB team Katie Hendra, Katherine Kempe, Louise Creechan

Men's Foil (Cadets) 96 entries - GB team Marcus Mepstead, Tom Potterton, Daniel Robinson

Results can be found here (http://www.linzfencing.at/resultats.html?-session=user:C35C43D107dcd1ADB0hhll3936A5)

Good luck guys

PM1
-22nd March 2005, 19:11
I second that emotion....good luck, y'all:) :) :)

MiniMelia
-22nd March 2005, 19:35
Good luck guys! Make us proud! GO TEAM! :party:

PM1
-22nd March 2005, 19:48
I wish it were a "team" going out - they're doing the dribs and drabs thing again : I know it's not a cheap way to spend time, but if the gang had been given the option to go out early and/or come back later than their event, some of them would have done, and that would have meant that there would have been a "team" spirit. Was very little last year, not helped by lack of GB kit.

So far as I'm aware, the gang seem to be travelling out as a weapon group with coach 2 or 3 days before the event and then coming straight home. Except those who are there for cadet and junior and/or jnr team. Boy was not impressed by this last year. Speaking to ALex O'C at the PSC he expressed the same comment - he knew his own team mates obviously, but from the other weapons only knew Boy.

C'mon GB management - get it together !! I'll come and chaperone next year, whether Boy qualifies or not !!! But then - I have been told where it will be taking place....:eek: :eek:

tigger
-23rd March 2005, 08:15
Pools:

Katherine Kempe.
Pool - 4 wins, 2 defeats
Seeded 19th
Bye to L32 - yet to fence L32 fight

Louise Creechan
Pool - 2 wins, 4 defeats
Made the cut seeded 36th
Lost 15-10 in L64

Katie Hendra
Pool - 1 win 5 defeats
Made the cut seeded 42nd
Lost 15-11 in L64

Well done to KK and Louise (who stepped in a few weeks ago to cover for Robynne Stenner). Very disappointing for Katie H.

randomsabreur
-23rd March 2005, 08:41
Well done to Marcus Mepstead - 4 up 1 down, in a short poule and won his poule

I thought Louise won her L64 fight from the look of the results on line

WFFC Coach
-23rd March 2005, 08:53
I thought Louise won her L64 fight from the look of the results on line

Looks like that to me too.

What a great online results service!

Well done the organisers (FIE?).

tigger
-23rd March 2005, 08:53
You're right Random - the result was originally put up the other way round.

tigger
-23rd March 2005, 08:56
In L32 Louise has got 4th seed Danilova (Rus), KK has got 14th seed Kozaczuk (Pol).

rpryer
-23rd March 2005, 08:59
Katherine lost her L32 15-11.

tigger
-23rd March 2005, 09:26
Tom Potterton 5 wins from 6 fights - 1st place in the pool.

Daniel Robinson 4 wins from 6 fights.

All the foilists looking good!

tigger
-23rd March 2005, 09:34
louise out 15-2 in the L32

tigger
-23rd March 2005, 10:03
Al 3 Brit foilists have a bye to the L64. Tom Potterton is 10th seed, Marcus Mepstead 21st and Daniel Robinson 31st

J_D
-23rd March 2005, 10:07
what was Marcus' poule result?

Very well done guys!

rpryer
-23rd March 2005, 10:14
Originally posted by randomsabreur
Well done to Marcus Mepstead - 4 up 1 down, in a short poule and won his poule

J_D
-23rd March 2005, 10:36
Whoops :o: TY

J_D
-23rd March 2005, 11:13
I see there's been a few upsets already:

1 MINUTO Martino ITA
65 BENKE Balazs HUN

BENKE wins 15/14

is probably the most notable

tigger
-23rd March 2005, 11:20
1st, 3rd and 9th seeds already out in the L64...

WFFC Coach
-23rd March 2005, 11:36
No new results posted for a while. I wonder if the shock results have caused a protest?

randomsabreur
-23rd March 2005, 11:51
New results now up. Unfortunately Marcus lost 15-7.

Other brits yet to fence

WFFC Coach
-23rd March 2005, 11:55
New results up now.

Marcus is out beaten 15/7 by a Greek

Boo Boo
-23rd March 2005, 11:56
and Daniel Robinson out to Isaac Kim (USA), 15:13 :( :( :(

Boo

WFFC Coach
-23rd March 2005, 11:56
Daniel is out too. 15/13 to Isaac Kim USA

WFFC Coach
-23rd March 2005, 11:58
Boo beat me to it!

Come on Tom P!!

Boo Boo
-23rd March 2005, 12:03
Originally posted by WFFC Coach
Come on Tom P!!

Ditto!!! :) :) :)

WFFC Coach
-23rd March 2005, 12:08
Tom P through 14/12

randomsabreur
-23rd March 2005, 12:08
Excellent, Tom P won 14-12!

Has 42nd seeded Belgian next.

Boo Boo
-23rd March 2005, 12:10
Originally posted by WFFC Coach
Tom P through 14/12

Fantastic :)

J_D
-23rd March 2005, 12:13
WEll done Tom, tough for Danny and Marcus though :(

J_D
-23rd March 2005, 12:19
I just realised that Tom's fight went to time, not a lot of time to recover before his L16

doobarz
-23rd March 2005, 12:28
Originally posted by J_D
I just realised that Tom's fight went to time, not a lot of time to recover before his L16

Should get his 10 minutes.

Perhaps a moderator could tidy this thread up, what with all these double postings?

WFFC Coach
-23rd March 2005, 12:54
Sorry, but Tom is only in the L32, next fight gets him into the L16.........hopefully!

WFFC Coach
-23rd March 2005, 13:09
Bad Luck Tom beaten 13/12 in L32

Penny Lane
-23rd March 2005, 15:31
Are there any Photos from the championships out there, couldnt find any on the official web site but im not very good with web sites? :confused:

Foilling Around
-23rd March 2005, 19:00
Remember all 3 lads have next year in this age group and Marcus has 2 more years. If they fight off the opposition next season this will be fantastic experience and it gives their peers a target to aim at.

MiniMelia
-23rd March 2005, 22:18
I don't think they would have any photos up yet anywhere, but if anyone finds any help us out! :)

Looks like a good result for the foil lads.

MiniMelia.

WFFC Coach
-24th March 2005, 07:43
Boys Sabre poules already up.

Great start for Alex O'C dropped one fight but ranked 4th!

Stuart M 23rd

Anthony C 39th

Stephen F (IRL) 46th

monobrow
-24th March 2005, 08:36
stu, steve, and antony out in 64 tho antony only lost 15/14
alex had a bye

WFFC Coach
-24th March 2005, 08:36
If anyone is not following this on the results page.


Anthony C lost 15/14 in the L64

Stuart M Lost 15/7 also in the L64

Stephen F Lost 15/12

Alex O'C had a bye.

tigger
-24th March 2005, 08:40
Big chance for Alex to get a great result here - not a bad draw til Matushkin in the L8...

WFFC Coach
-24th March 2005, 08:49
Lets hope you are right Tigger, GB could do with a good one.

Good luck to the girls in the epee too.

WFFC Coach
-24th March 2005, 09:35
Girls epee after poules

Corinna L 26th

Louise H 55th

Jade C 63rd

randomsabreur
-24th March 2005, 09:49
Alex won 1st DE 15/7. Nice one!

WFFC Coach
-24th March 2005, 10:13
No 1 seed is out, several other high seeds too.

Come on Alex!!

WFFC Coach
-24th March 2005, 10:15
Last post worked !

Alex is through to L8

Tough fight next against Matushkin.

Good luck Alex!!

J_D
-24th March 2005, 10:15
Woohoo L8 Go Alex :rambo:

randomsabreur
-24th March 2005, 10:38
Excellent!!!

Alex through to L4 15-14!!!

Well done Alex, good luck for the next round!

J_D
-24th March 2005, 10:39
L4 Way to go Alex :party:

tigger
-24th March 2005, 10:45
That is a truly top-class win.

Alex has now got our best-ever men's cadet sabre result i think. tom benny made the L8 a few years back, but i don't think any GB fencer has won a medal at men's cadet sabre. awesome.

The Korean lad (Kang) in the semi - unknown quantity but he beat the number 1 seed 15-8 earlier! Who knows...

tigger
-24th March 2005, 10:49
Don't forget the epee girls!

Corinna Lawrence and Louise Highton have byes to the L64
Corinna has 38th seed Engel in the 64, and Louise has 10th seed jevremovic

Jade Clarke out in the 128 15-12

Insipiens
-24th March 2005, 10:50
Kang had a 15-14 result as well so it looks like the L8 was pretty exciting.

Good luck for the L4.!!

J_D
-24th March 2005, 10:51
anyone know when the girlie epee starts again?

tigger
-24th March 2005, 10:52
Men's Sabre semis at 1830 Austrian time (1730 our time?)

WFFC Coach
-24th March 2005, 10:54
Fantastic Alex!

Good luck this evening in the semi-finals.

CARDIGAN
-24th March 2005, 11:20
Good Luck Alex

Cardigan

rpryer
-24th March 2005, 12:22
Cadet Girls Epee placings

Rg Nom Prénom Nation Club
42 LAWRENCE Corinna GBR
58 HIGHTON Louise GBR
66 CLARK R. Jade GBR

UglyBug
-24th March 2005, 14:23
Cadet Sabre seems to have suffered a carve-up in the L16 - Alex is the only one of the original L4 still there.

Good luck to Alex and all of those still to fence over the next few days.

UglyBug
-24th March 2005, 16:44
Has anyone managed to register for the watching it on video? When I try it tells me to read the terms & conditions - but not where they are. Aagh!!

UglyBug
-24th March 2005, 16:52
ALEX IS IN THE FINAL!!!!

Gangsta G
-24th March 2005, 16:55
way to go alex! come on mate... do us all proud.

Gangsta G
-24th March 2005, 16:59
what time is the final?

randomsabreur
-24th March 2005, 17:09
10 minutes or so. After the epee semis.

D'Artignan
-24th March 2005, 17:20
It appears he won 15-13! Anton Kuska in the final!

WAY TO GO!!!!!!

D'Artignan
-24th March 2005, 17:24
Tried to download the video thing. Told me to register, tried it, it told me to read the terms and conditions first. One problem, I can't find the terms and conditions!!!!!

D'Artignan
-24th March 2005, 17:28
Originally posted by D'Artignan
It appears he won 15-13! Anton Kuska in the final!

WAY TO GO!!!!!! D'OH! Just realised!!!

rpryer
-24th March 2005, 17:36
The tableau page has disappeared.

D'Artignan
-24th March 2005, 17:38
must be getting updated

rpryer
-24th March 2005, 17:46
He's won!!

:party: :party:

D'Artignan
-24th March 2005, 17:47
Britain has a World Champion!!!!!!

Well Done, chap!!!!

rpryer
-24th March 2005, 17:47
Final ranking here (http://www.linzfencing.at/results/CHP_SMC_I-AUX/ClasGeneral.htm)


15/7 win.

Exgeordielass
-24th March 2005, 17:50
Fantastic result - well done from son and myself!:grin:

:party: :party: :party:

D'Artignan
-24th March 2005, 17:52
Not much for the rest of the team to live up to now!!! Heh heh:grin: :grin: :grin: :thumbs_up :thumbs_up

randomsabreur
-24th March 2005, 17:55
Well done Alex!!!!!!!

:party: :party: :party: :cup: :cup: :cup: :jumprain: :jumprain: :mexwave:

Boo Boo
-24th March 2005, 18:08
Originally posted by rpryer
He's won!!

Wow - absolutely fantastic! :)

:party: :party: :party:

Any chance of some good press coverage on this? It is such a brilliant result...

Boo

PM1
-24th March 2005, 18:21
Have sent congrats message via text. Gettingonabit is there - she says "it was f***ing great !!" and some, I'd say. Been breaking works internet use rules all day and getting very frustrated when the tableau didn't seem to change.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke. Dead chuffed :) :)

(i know a world champ ! I know a world champ ....:grin: :) :grin: :grin:

Lucan
-24th March 2005, 18:44
Any chance of some good press coverage on this
--------------------------------------------

Yes if fencing is to become a big sport some one should be on the phone to the sports eds of the main papers and TVs. Come on Brit Fencing.

J_D
-24th March 2005, 19:00
Been hanging on this all day....Bloody brilliant!

Well done Alex ya champ! :party: :party: :party:

UglyBug
-24th March 2005, 20:11
Well done Alex! I hope his parents are out there - must be amazing watching your kid win something like that.

Is he fencing in the Junior event as well or are fencers only allowed to compete in one age group?

UglyBug
-24th March 2005, 20:16
Another question - who was the last Brit to win a world title? Was it Rob wassisname from Cornwall?

rpryer
-24th March 2005, 20:22
We've picked up a couple of golds at each of the last couple of Veterans' World Championships.

UglyBug
-24th March 2005, 20:27
What about Cadet/Juniors?

tris586
-24th March 2005, 20:43
Just got off phone to him. He seems really dazed like "Oh my god what have i done!?" Couldn't have happened to a better guy!! Feel so pleased for him!! He had better get some press coverage for this, aint everyday we get a World Champion at anything, any age!

Again Alex you the man, a Legend now infact probs!!

WFFC Coach
-24th March 2005, 21:01
Just got home from an evening coaching to see that Alex has done it.

GREAT STUFF ALEX!!

I want to go back to the club and give loads of sabre lessons now!!!

This will motivate so many fencers, young and old (like me).

Peter Pan
-24th March 2005, 21:41
Brilliant result Alex!

And Congratulations proud parents!

A tremendous achievement and really important for fencing in Britain - tell everyone about it!

Gangsta G
-24th March 2005, 23:37
What can I say? Could it have happened to a nicer guy?

Let's just keep in mind the other GBR's at the worlds, especially Anthony Crutchett as the poor lad has always been, to a certain extent, living in Alex's shadow and will probably be upset with his L64.

Gav
-25th March 2005, 05:00
Apparently they've had a few technical glitches. I have to say that the contact for this Jorchen Faerber has been good ; responding very quickly to any questions. Unfortunately I've not been able to get in to see anything, but I'm informed that they'll look into getting them back up.

FYI here's the email I received:


Hello from Linz,

thanks for your information. We are aware of the error on that page. If you like to register right now, please just confirm. There are no terms and conditions to be confirmed at that stage. That will appear later with the pay per view option.

I informed the technicians last night about the mistake and hope that it will be fixed soon.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

Best regards

Jochen Faerber

Note the interesting use of the words Pay per view.

Other than that he's been very helpful.

bydande
-25th March 2005, 09:15
Gav,
I had a quick look at the video registration and the problem is that the popup window is too small to show all of the form items - but there is a clever way round it.

Do the following and it will work:
- enter your email
- enter your password
- enter your password in the confirm box

Then do the following:
- press the tab button 4 times
(this moves the cursor to the non visible read conditions tick box)
- press the space button
(this ticks the read conditions box)
- press enter
and hey presto it should now work and move you on to the next screen

Unfortunately you will then be presented with a choice of payment options for viewing
- Daily round up: $7
- Live stream $8
- Daily round up and live stream: $9

tigger
-25th March 2005, 09:21
Rob Bruniges (or whatsisname) who fences with us at Truro was the last GB world champion at any age group apart from veteran. He was World Junior Foil Champion in 1976.

Also I'm almost certain that Alex is our first EVER sabre world champion in the history of GB fencing in any age group apart from verteran.

Yes he will fence in the junior event - last year he did better in juniors than cadets...!

WFFC Coach
-25th March 2005, 09:31
last year he did better in juniors than cadets...!

He'll have to go some to do the same this year!! Win the final 15/6 !!

Not such a good day so far for GB

Lara K just missed the cut

Chris T lost four fights 5/4 and didn't win any

Dom S and Amber M are seeded to go out in the L64 but lets hope they can get through.

tigger
-25th March 2005, 09:33
Women's CAdet Foil

Dominique Stowell - 3 wins from 6 - 37th seed - fencing 28th seed Karmanove in L64

Amber Mills 2 wins from 6 - 50th seed - fencing 15th seed Bailey (Fra) in L64

Lara Kerrison 1 win from 5 - eliminated in pool round

Lara was so unlucky. Ranked 65th and 64 promoted - same wins/defeats and same indicator as the fencer above her...must have been on 2nd indicator..

PM1
-25th March 2005, 09:37
Originally posted by Gangsta G
What can I say? Could it have happened to a nicer guy?

Let's just keep in mind the other GBR's at the worlds, especially Anthony Crutchett as the poor lad has always been, to a certain extent, living in Alex's shadow and will probably be upset with his L64.

Never meant to ignore them, and earlier posts congrat all 3 of them. In fact, all 3 appear to be vnb, but I know Alex and not the other 2, and I'm more likely to make comment about him, I guess.

In any case, the achievement of GETTING to the worlds is fantastic in itself......:grin:

tigger
-25th March 2005, 09:40
Dominique out 15-9


Epee

Paul Dazeley 37th seed - Bye to L64 - Fencing vs Ishac (Can) 28th seed
Joseph Craig 79th - eliminated
Chris Taylor84th - eliminated

PM1
-25th March 2005, 09:41
Beat me to it, Trig - I was too busy talking on the phone.....

Boo Boo
-25th March 2005, 10:01
Originally posted by tigger
Dominique out 15-9

Ouch :(. That is a shame - especially being Dominique's last cadet year (and her getting some VERY good results at cadet events this season) was hoping that she would make the L8 or get a medal.

Was surprised how the competition was seeded - looks like it was seeded using junior rankings - Dominique didn't have a good seeding going into the poules and, by the looks of things, a rather difficult poule. Do all cadet events use junior rankings to seed them? Don't suppose that there is any other way to do it - since there are no "FIE cadet events"...

Boo

PM1
-25th March 2005, 10:19
Amber out - 12/14 to Victoria Bailey, FRA:(

all gone.....

PM1
-25th March 2005, 10:22
Originally posted by Boo Boo
Do all cadet events use junior rankings to seed them? Don't suppose that there is any other way to do it - since there are no "FIE cadet events"...

Boo

erm...have heard a rumour that there may not be cadet event at Worlds after this year if the suggestion is ratified by FIE in November....don't know how secure that rumour IS, but I don't like it...and there being no official cadet events might be a reason given....
:( :(

what price Alex being the last EVER male cadet sabre world champ.....:mad:

Boo Boo
-25th March 2005, 10:32
Originally posted by PM1
erm...have heard a rumour that there may not be cadet event at Worlds after this year if the suggestion is ratified by FIE in November....don't know how secure that rumour IS, but I don't like it...and there being no official cadet events might be a reason given.... :( :(

I really hope not - how awful!!! :eek: :upset:

I think that the cadet worlds give kids a great goal to aim for early in their careers - helps to provide a gentler step function to their goals and makes it more manageable to move towards Junior A-grades... (ok cadet "A-grades" would still exist - with no cadet world championships - but the motivation, and group organisational support to go to them, may diminish somewhat...)

I hope this is an untrue rumour... the FIE just seems to be going from bad to worse. :(

Boo

tigger
-25th March 2005, 10:40
That would be absolutely crazy...surely even the fie they can't stoop that low!?

I think it would be good to nominate some offical cadet events throughout the year. Maybe 2 in the Americas, 3 in Asia, 1 or 2 in Africa and 3 in Europe to give some kind of basic ranking system.

In answer to Boo, yes they do use the World junior ranking to seed the pools at the World Cadets.

The Cadet worlds is a fantastic introduction to world class fencing, and the environment of a World Championships. I can't think of a single good reason for doing away with it.

Boo Boo
-25th March 2005, 10:48
Originally posted by tigger
That would be absolutely crazy...surely even the fie they can't stoop that low!?

I think that the FIE is constantly seraching for crazier things to do and lower depths to stoop to... :upset:


Originally posted by tigger
I can't think of a single good reason for doing away with it.

That's it then - they WILL get rid of it...

Boo
(aka "Little Miss Cynical")
(wonders if she can change her forum name...)

Sabine
-25th March 2005, 11:00
Actually they use a combination of results from last years World Cadet Champs and then the World Junior rankings, The fencers who are very disadvantaged are the Russians and good Asian fencers who regularly have no seeds, though now there is a 799,899,999 system to allow for unseeded fencers from good countries.

Many congratulations to Alex O'Connell and GBR on a fabulous gold medal yesterday!!

Sabine

WFFC Coach
-25th March 2005, 11:06
Amber out - 12/14 to Victoria Bailey, FRA all gone

Not quite Paul Dazely is still in the epee ..................for now

Foilling Around
-25th March 2005, 11:31
Bad day for the girls!

Personally I'm cheering for Fanny Kreiss so that FA Junior can say she's beaten the world cadets champion!!

On to seedings:-

That means to get a good seeding in the world cadets, you have to do the Under 20 circuit 3 or 4 years before you reach the top of the age group. In addition to doing the Cadet events.

Sabine is right abouty who is disadvantaged, but also the Cadets who cannot afford the time of the money to do two circuits of events are also disadvantaged.

I am obviously looking to the future and if FA Junior does qualify next year (if it is held) or the year after then she would need to have done 6 or 8 events abroad. These would be both the Cadet and Junior events and be done during her GCSE years. To do this you are talking about and outlay of £2,500 to £3,000 just for the events and 6 to 8 weekends between October and February - crucial exam and coursework time.

Not practical I'm afraid. The system really is stacked against us. It seems that we have to make the goal gaining a place on the team. Success beyond that has to be left to ability but fighting against the odds.

Which is exactly what our new world champion has done. He is ranked 49th in the world under 20 rankings with 5 under 20 events under his belt this season. Dominique on the otherhand is ranked 225th in the under 20 rankings with just 1 under 20 event under her belt.

It goes to show that it is not always enough to be a good fencer, you also have to know how to use and play the system (or have a coach or parent who knows how to).

Boo Boo
-25th March 2005, 11:48
Originally posted by Foilling Around
It goes to show that it is not always enough to be a good fencer, you also have to know how to use and play the system (or have a coach or parent who knows how to).

Not completely true - if you were good enough (and/or lucky enough with the draw) you could blast through the poule and/or DEs no matter what your seed...

...this has been done by various Chinese/Korean fencers in the past (wasn't the Korean in the L4 of the Cadet MS seeded about 48th after the poules?)...

...it just makes life SO much more difficult :(

I like Tigger's suggestion of a FIE approved cadet circuit and ranking systems - allowing cadets to focus solely on cadets (if they choose to) without worrying about their junior ranking (i.e. affecting their seeding at the cadet worlds).

Boo
(thinks that Fanny Kreiss is VERY likely to win...)

PM1
-25th March 2005, 11:50
Originally posted by WFFC Coach
Not quite Paul Dazely is still in the epee ..................for now

Nope - out 14/15. Ouch !!

But still very well done - he'd been 6 up at one point.....:( Still lots to learn, and he will, as will the others.

PM1
-25th March 2005, 11:57
Interesting comments about "having" to do the junior circuit before being of that age: my boy didn't qualify for the worlds this year, but thanks to a tax rebate for me has been able to do several junior A grades, several nominated and 2 un nominated. It was at one of those latter where he achieved some junior world ranking points, which (if he'd qualified) would possibly have given the lie to the comments in another thread that they were "cheap points", as he would have not been a 999 ranking today, but somewhat higher and thus advantaged.

Strikes me that if the cadets are not to have a world champs (and I like Tigger's idea), then doing the odd A grade (if it can be afforded) is no bad idea. But money talks, as usual..:confused:

Boo Boo
-25th March 2005, 12:04
Originally posted by Boo Boo

Boo
(thinks that Fanny Kreiss is VERY likely to win...)

I'll go and eat my hat shall I???

Fanny Kreiss lost to Iman Shaban (EGY) - this is a surprise, she fenced in Cairo last weekend...

Boo

rory
-25th March 2005, 12:09
Quite a surprise: Fanny's ranked 8th in the world at Junior, let alone Cadet. And she only dropped 2 hits in the pools too.

Funny how people grow up: I remember her at 12, she just seemed like another average Hungarian girly fencer.

I think this is her last year as a Cadet, maybe 1 more: but she's obviously making it as a Junior!

PM1
-25th March 2005, 12:14
Just to clarify - Boy was a cadet this year, and has been able to do both cadet and junior circuits, but didn't qualify for cadet worlds.

What he HAS done is gain a lot of experience and got me called by school for an assurance that next year he'll concentrate on school work....:(

naughty mummy.....:rolleyes:

PM1
-25th March 2005, 12:16
Originally posted by Boo Boo
I'll go and eat my hat shall I???

Fanny Kreiss lost to Iman Shaban (EGY) - this is a surprise, she fenced in Cairo last weekend...

Boo

Hope she's in the junior comp then....I suspect blood will metaphorically flow....:o:

aao
-25th March 2005, 12:43
Well it looks at the half way point like this comp is turning out like almost all the junior and senior worlds/European events in the past few year, generally poor results but with one or two exceptional results mixed in (Alex so far this year, Laurence and Richard in previous years).
Stunning result to get any medal, let alone a gold one, but do the results mean that as a nation we're getting better or that except for the occasional great result we're getting worse???? (for example GB results outside Alexs are generally poorer than Turkey's a country with at least 10 times less fencers, and far far less funding)

Foilling Around
-25th March 2005, 13:03
Reply to Boo

That is why I said it is not ALWAYS enough just to be a good fencer.

Reply to PM1

I am sure that a lot of the top end Cadets would like to do Junior A grades and indeed may get some deserved or lucky results. My argument is that seeding on results in a category in which they are not competing is unfair. It puts an air of compulsion into the idea of competing above their age group.

If I were looking at a fencer having the best chance of doing well in the Cadet worlds in their last year then I would have to be looking at priorities to fund a couple of trips to Junior A grades.

Lara Kerrison must have been seeded higher than Dom Stowell into the event as she has 4 U20 A grade points and Dom has just 2. This despite Dom medalling at Bratislava and L8 in Jena (as well as being top 3 UK senior) and Lara making one L64 and no other scoring points in the other 2 cadet competitions.

It actually puts a different perspective on my agrument on a different thread that U20 A grade events should not be counted for qualifying for U17 team selection.

Anyway, who care the FIE seems intent on destroying the sport so removing the U17 world championships in an obvious next step!

Reply to Tigger

Nominating a number of U17 events sounds like a great idea but the format of these events is very varied. Loot at the Slovaks (FIE formula) Germans (3 rounds of pools + repechage) French (the laise faire (sp) anyway you want it system). They would need to be spread round the different continents and have a consistent formula. The FIE seem to want to reduce the number of events which they are responsible for not increase them.

Boo Boo
-25th March 2005, 13:29
three of the L4 for WF are German... one Italian takes the other place.

Boo

UglyBug
-25th March 2005, 15:17
Any piccies anywhere yet?

PM1
-25th March 2005, 17:57
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Foilling Around
[B]Reply to PM1

I am sure that a lot of the top end Cadets would like to do Junior A grades and indeed may get some deserved or lucky results. My argument is that seeding on results in a category in which they are not competing is unfair. It puts an air of compulsion into the idea of competing above their age group.[B][QUOTE]

wouldn't disagree with you - ALL have to be able to compete in the category used for seeding.


[QUOTE][B]It actually puts a different perspective on my agrument on a different thread that U20 A grade events should not be counted for qualifying for U17 team selection.[B][QUOTE]

I've missed that one I think - where be it? Not sure I'd agree with you, but like to check !!

[QUOTE][B]Anyway, who care the FIE seems intent on destroying the sport so removing the U17 world championships in an obvious next step![B][QUOTE]

Regrettably, I think you will be right.

Foilling Around
-25th March 2005, 18:23
Below is part of the text of a letter I wrote on the subject of using Junior A grades as part of the Cadet ranking system.

I would like to make my views knows as to the use of Junior and Senior ‘A’ Grade event points in the Cadet ranking system.

In short, I disagree with it. I can see the argument for reducing the number of events to which a Cadet chasing both Cadet and Junior selection must travel. There are however considerations of fairness which I believe outweigh this.

My problem is that the Junior ranking system is similar, but not identical, to the Cadet system. This means that Fencer A might be placed above Fencer B in the Cadet rankings, but below Fencer B in the Junior rankings.

This becomes a problem where Fencer A is not selected for a Junior ‘A’ grade squad, but Fencer B is. Fencer A is therefore not in a position to gain points for cadet selection even though he/she is ranked above Fencer B in the cadet rankings. This possibility I regard as manifestly unfair.

I would therefore urge that Cadet selection is restricted to those events which are open to all Cadets to enter and to those International events where selection is based on the placing in the Cadet ranking.

This was the result of converstaions with a number of parents on the subject, both at competitions and standing waiting for FA junior to arrive at Heathrow!

PM1
-25th March 2005, 18:28
Cheers, FA - interesting point. Are you talking cross weapons or just for foil ?? One of my main gripes is that the systems appear to be so differnt across all 6 weapons, and there must be an arguement for them being the same, surely....too many different rules leads to trouble and strife....:rolleyes:

And did you send it to the IC or FC or both /neither.someone entirely diffenret (going a tad off thread here, but not completely)

Foilling Around
-25th March 2005, 18:56
It actually went to FC as each weapon seems to set its own rules as you say. I don't think the IC has jurisdiction over this, or at least hasn't exerted any authority over this.

I have been rather an "international virgin" this year, but have been trying to learn fast.

We need to get a coherent system going if we are to improve the overall performances. Alex's achievement is fantastic, but it papers over the other performances.

Dom Stowell is in line for one of the new personal grants under the funding system, yet she goes out in L64. Was this just a bad day or are there underlying institutional reasons for it.

Not all of the ranking systems produced the expected teams for the event. We need to question whether the systems are correct. Is it correct that results in adult events are the best guide to performance in international cadet events. Do we need to create a circuit of cadet events.

I am not saying that everything is wrong, but I feel it important to ask the questions. If nothing else to be confident that what is being done is in fact the best way.

Finally good luck to the Under 20s over the next few days.

Foilling Around
-25th March 2005, 19:00
Just looked at the WF Tableau and Merkl absolutely cruised it, after being just 11th seed.

UglyBug
-25th March 2005, 19:03
The only issue I see with Foilling Around's point is that selection is only part of the goal - surely the powers that be want to select fencers that will do well. Taking Alex O'C as a case in point, he has a reasonable Junior World ranking, loads of senior domestic points that all contribute to his selection and as such has won the biggest prize he can in his age group. The experience he has developed fencing at a variety of levels must be an essential part of turning him into a World Champion at cadet level.

I appreciate that chasing all these competitions must cost a small fortune - and I pity the O'Connell's bank balance if Grace goes the way of her brothers - but from a purely objective, results-seeking point of view, I think that selectors should continue to look at senior and junior results when selecting cadets.

PM1
-25th March 2005, 22:22
I'm with FA here, and may end up having a phone chat about this, as it really bugs me how money is spent, criteria and so on. I don't see how each weapon at each age has different criteria in GB and THEN find the FIE has something different (tho' I have grown to expect the latter as being a law unto itself alone).

And FA's point about being an international virgin raises other issues: we don't look after our fencers properly so we won't look after our parents and support mechanisms properly either on the international scene. By that I mean parents, coaches, physios and so on. I didn't know what to expect when Boy went off with cadets for the first time (tho' there was a good attempt to help the boys epee cadets).

It should not be down to the home counties but BFA to resolve this, and be the same for all 6 weapons. I suspect England is going to grasp the metal first, not least because it's got some very lippy people involved (or about to be...):grin:

PM1
-25th March 2005, 22:30
I don't know....I did a really long, involved ranting edit, but it took me longer than 5 mins to do, so it's lost to posterity....:(

The gist of it was that we should measure cadets against cadets, not against seniors. It's not whether a cadet can have a good round of poules, or get a bye, but whether they can get that last hit at 14 all against a peer, whether they can get thru the several levels of DE, whether they can beat their peers consistently, from home or abroad, on home territory or abroard.

Rant over (smilie somewhere). Wine too good tomight, I'm afraid.....:grin: :grin:

monobrow
-26th March 2005, 07:40
well, looks as though jojo and chrystall might be meeting in the 32 just as long as chrystall gets through postiglione (ita) first!

Foilling Around
-26th March 2005, 07:42
To further Boo's point I notice that none of the Chinese Juniors MF have a ranking, but I'll be they don't all go out in the L64. Watch this space - at least when I get back from Birmingham I'll comment again - bye got to drive down the M1 now.

UglyBug
-26th March 2005, 08:02
Well done Jo for a good poule - and managing to end up in the other half of the draw from all the Americans!

Lets hope Sarah gets through to the L32 and do against Emily J from the US what she nearly did in Rickmansworth!!

rpryer
-26th March 2005, 08:47
Originally posted by UglyBug
Well done Jo for a good poule - and managing to end up in the other half of the draw from all the Americans!

Lets hope Sarah gets through to the L32 and do against Emily J from the US what she nearly did in Rickmansworth!!

Unfortunately she didn't make it - lost 15/6 in L64. Chrystall lost as well.

doobarz
-26th March 2005, 09:12
MACINNES Alex GBR Won 3/6
BARNETT Michael GBR Won 3/6
KENBER Jamie GBR Won 3/6

doobarz
-26th March 2005, 10:30
POSTIGLIONE Mariangela bt HUTCHISON Joanna 15/12

doobarz
-26th March 2005, 10:39
After Poules

1 BALDINI Andrea ITA
2 ALONGI Giuseppe ITA
3 BOESCH Maximilian AUT
4 DE LAMBALLERIE Guy FRA

52 KENBER Jamie GBR
59 MACINNES Alex GBR
65 BARNETT Michael GBR

L128

64 KWON Young Ho KOR bt 65 BARNETT Michael GBR 15/9

52 KENBER Jamie GBR bt 77 DAURENBEKOV Alibek KAZ 15/7

59 MACINNES Alex GBR bt 70 ULUSAHIN Utku TUR 15/4

doobarz
-26th March 2005, 12:37
KENBER Jamie bt GOLOVINE Vladimir (13th seed) 15/14

ZHOU Zhile bt MACINNES Alex 15/14

doobarz
-26th March 2005, 14:38
GANEEV Renal bt KENBER Jamie 15/7

PM1
-26th March 2005, 16:57
i see alex's win t'other day hasn't changed his ranking for the comp tomorrow...that'l be fun, then....:rolleyes:

good luck alex, peter and anthony, we'll be watching.....:) :) :)

reposte
-26th March 2005, 19:47
It seems Kleibernik took gold on MF.
Did anyone here see him fence? I can't get any footage of him. I'm told he counters alot on account of his relative short height.
Is that true?

kingbob
-26th March 2005, 20:15
go on lads gine em hell.lol

kingbob
-26th March 2005, 20:15
go on lads give em hell.lol

doobarz
-27th March 2005, 09:30
Poules

COHEN Mary won 3/6
FERRIS Katherine Louise won 3/6
LAWRENCE Rhiannon GBR won 2/5

Seeding after Poules

1 CHOI Eun Sook KOR
2 SZEILE Rita HUN
3 FERDMAN Anastasia ISR
4 NOWAKOWSKI Martha GER

59 COHEN Mary GBR
60 FERRIS Katherine Louise GBR
67 LAWRENCE Rhiannon GBR

L128

60 FERRIS Katherine Louise GBR bt 69 NARJALA Lakshmi IND 15/14

62 CHEN Yuju TPE bt 67 LAWRENCE Rhiannon GBR 15/14

59 COHEN Mary GBR bt 70 DEAC Simona ROM 15/14

doobarz
-27th March 2005, 09:40
Poules

CRUTCHETT Anthony won 1/6
O'CONNELL Alexander won 4/6
KIRBY Peter won 1/5

FENWICK Steven IRL won 1/6

Seeding after poules

1 BOIKO Dmytro UKR
2 TRICARICO Marco ITA
2 HUEBNER Bjoern GER
4 BOGHICEV Franz GER
4 TORCHUK Oleksandr UKR

24 O'CONNELL Alexander

Eliminated

67 KIRBY Peter GBR 0.200 -10 14 éliminé
68 CRUTCHETT Anthony GBR 0.167 -11 16 éliminé
69 FENWICK Steven IRL 0.167 -11 14 éliminé

L64

24 O'CONNELL Alexander GBR bt 41 AZIZOV Ruslan AZE 15/9

L32

O'CONNELL Alexander bt KIEFFER Florentin 15/14

L16

NAGY Pal bt O'CONNELL Alexander 15/9

Nagy was seeded 57th after the poules, then took out the number 8 seed in L64.

Gangsta G
-27th March 2005, 09:46
:( bad luck lads

PM1
-27th March 2005, 10:08
Go Mary, go Katherine :) :) :)

PM1
-27th March 2005, 11:35
Mary out to the 6th seed, Del Carretto, 15/6, Katerine out to 5th seed I think . Bad luck girls. Save your energy for the team, now...:)

PM1
-27th March 2005, 11:59
Junior WS

55 Mary
56 Katerine
73 Rhiannon

PM1
-27th March 2005, 12:01
Junior MS

15 Alex
66 Peter
67 Anthony
68 Stephen Fenwick

Peter and co hade been 4th, 5th and 6th to be eliminated after the poules. So near and yet....

rodneyf
-27th March 2005, 12:45
Junior WS

55 Mary
56 Katerine
73 Rhiannon

Surely Junior WE?

Coupe du Nord
-27th March 2005, 13:43
Quote.
To further Boo's point I notice that none of the Chinese Juniors MF have a ranking, but I'll be they don't all go out in the L64. Watch this space - at least when I get back from Birmingham I'll comment again - bye got to drive down the M1 now.



And they didn't. one finished 7th, another 10th and the last one, the youngest 37th.

Very interesting !!

PM1
-27th March 2005, 13:59
Originally posted by rodneyf
Junior WS

55 Mary
56 Katerine
73 Rhiannon

Surely Junior WE?

erm....yers...:rolleyes: caught me out AGAIN......:tongue:

PM1
-27th March 2005, 21:57
Originally posted by Coupe du Nord
Quote.
To further Boo's point I notice that none of the Chinese Juniors MF have a ranking, but I'll be they don't all go out in the L64. Watch this space - at least when I get back from Birmingham I'll comment again - bye got to drive down the M1 now.



And they didn't. one finished 7th, another 10th and the last one, the youngest 37th.

Very interesting !!
All to do with not having been out on circuit and gaining ranking points, of course...it's a long way to anywhere from China, other than Korea, I guess....:(

PM1
-27th March 2005, 22:02
Well, it's good luck to forumites jamesthornton, Gordon and Australian for tomorrow (that's today - Monday), as well as Andrew Fenwick (Ireland) and the girls.

A tough day for the boys - can't see any serious juniors NOT there, and Limardo has been looking well hot all season, according to Boy (who is an admirer.....:( ). Fingers crossed :) :)

doobarz
-28th March 2005, 08:23
Poules

TROIANO Sophie won 4/6
EMANUEL Martina won 2/6
BENNETT Claire won 1/5

Seeding after Poules

1 REPINA Polina RUS
2 RASHIDOVA Julia RUS
3 ERRIGO Arianna ITA
4 RUPPERT Luisa GER

30 TROIANO Sophie
63 EMANUEL Martina

Eliminated

77 BENNETT Claire

L128

30 TROIANO Sophie GBR bye

66 TERA****A Maki JPN bt 63 EMANUEL Martina GBR 15/10

doobarz
-28th March 2005, 08:28
Poules

Poule 2
BENNETT Thomas Edward won 3/6
FENWICK Andrew won 2/6

THORNTON James won 4/6

BAKER David AUS won 1/6

doobarz
-28th March 2005, 08:29
Originally posted by doobarz
66 TERA****A Maki JPN

T-E-R-A-S-H-I-T-A

doobarz
-28th March 2005, 09:56
TROIANO Sophie bt DMYTRUK Oksana 15/10

Faces ERRIGO Arianna (no 3 seed) in the L32

PM1
-28th March 2005, 09:59
Originally posted by doobarz
T-E-R-A-S-H-I-T-A

Sophie has Arianne Errigo (3) in the 32 at 12.30

Still no boys tableau up.....:(

PM1
-28th March 2005, 10:04
Australian might make it on second indicator, as 20 have worse than him....but there were 133 fencers :( :confused: all bits crossed:eek: :eek: :o:

doobarz
-28th March 2005, 10:08
1 WANG Feng CHN
1 MORGOEV Vseslav RUS
3 LIMARDO Ruben VEN
4 SICOT Bastien FRA

30 THORNTON James
55 BENNETT Thomas Edward

88 FENWICK Andrew IRL

Eliminated

112 BAKER David

doobarz
-28th March 2005, 10:10
41 BESKIN Grigori ISR bt 88 FENWICK Andrew IRL 15/6

THORNTON James GBR bye

One fight to go...

PM1
-28th March 2005, 10:29
JWF

Errigo beat Sophie 15 -5 :(

PM1
-28th March 2005, 10:33
Bennet beaten by Kasahara 15/13 in the 128.

Thornton (31) now gets Chinman (34) usa - that'll be interesting...Nick's 4th comp this championships...:confused: :confused:

PM1
-28th March 2005, 12:06
Chinman beat Thornton 15/7 :(

PM1
-28th March 2005, 12:18
43 - Thornton
70 - Bennett

Bad luck boys - enjoy the team

and the number 4 seed is out (Sicot) in the L64

Australian
-28th March 2005, 12:47
Originally posted by doobarz
Eliminated

112 BAKER David


quite annoying....

beat my egyptian, but should not have lost to the isreali or the japanese guy.... not disapointed, was a very hard poule.

PM1
-28th March 2005, 12:58
Hard luck, chook, even the 4th seed is out - Go cheer on the Limardos.

.....and are the Aussies fielding a team ??

tigger
-29th March 2005, 07:33
team events:

Women's Sabre - GBR defeated Austria 45-18 in the L32. Lost 45-30 to Russia in the L16

Men's Foil - GBR lost 45-41 to Israel in the L32

Women's Epee - GBR lost 45-35 to Romania in the L32

Boo Boo
-29th March 2005, 07:39
That is a shame - nasty L16 draw for WS... :(

doobarz
-30th March 2005, 07:51
WS

1 U.S.A.
2 UKRAINE
3 RUSSIE

WE

1 SUISSE SUI
2 UKRAINE UKR
3 ITALIE ITA

MF

1 RUSSIE RUS
2 ALLEMAGNE GER
3 JAPON JPN

doobarz
-30th March 2005, 07:54
MS Team

L32

GRANDE-BRETAGNE bt CANADA CAN 45/44

Face Germany in L16

ME Team

L64 - bye

L32

VENEZUELA bt GRANDE-BRETAGNE 45/31

WF TEam

L32

JAPON JPN bt GRANDE-BRETAGNE GBR 45/34

tigger
-30th March 2005, 07:54
Men's team sabre

GB (16th seed) beat Canada (17th seed) 45-44 in the L32!
Now face number 1 seeds Germany in the L16

Men's team Epee
GB Lost 45-31 to Venezuela in the L32



Women's Team Foil
GB lost 45-34 to Japan in the L32

doobarz
-30th March 2005, 09:45
L16

ALLEMAGNE bt GRANDE-BRETAGNE 45/36

Hungary progressed after the Italians were excluded....

UglyBug
-30th March 2005, 11:08
What did the Italians do?

pinkelephant
-30th March 2005, 11:34
Just got back after being out of e-mail contact. MF team did really well in retrospect only losing to Israel 45-41. Israel then took out Italy in the L16 (Israel 16th seeds, Italy 1st!) and then only lost to France 42-41 in the extra minute. REALLY exciting stuff.

I asked Alex's mum what it was like watching him win - she said "Terrible"! I know exactly what she means - I started competing again so I didn't HAVE to watch them!

Insipiens
-30th March 2005, 13:31
Originally posted by UglyBug
What did the Italians do?
they lost and then the last sabreur threw his mask away according to the italian federation website. The Italians also got a red card for non-conforming kit. And there were a number of bad decisions in favour of the Hungarians.

Troll
-19th April 2005, 19:51
this is random but does anybody know about the world youth games held in Germany on the 14th May?