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Marcos
-17th June 2003, 14:38
posted this on US site - they don't know the answer...


What is the rule regarding the designs you can have on masks and equipment?

At a recent competition, 5 Nations, a sabreur from Scotland looked like something out of Braveheart, with a blue and white St Andrews cross on his lame and mask.

A sabreaur from Wales had red dragons all over his lame.

You can now buy masks with national colours on the mesh

is there an FIE rule?

(in fairness, the fencers mentioned were able to carry it off as they were pretty awesome - words similar to "clucking bell" came to mind when i went onto the piste..... )

kingkenny
-17th June 2003, 15:25
You have to get the mask approved by the F.I.E. if you want to use them in a-grades.
The Braveheart mask was done at LPaul and was clever as it was a sabre ask and the conductivity was still good even though there was a design on it. The spiderman mask we did for L Halsted ( http://www.leonpaul.com/news/team_s/la_halst.htm ) went to be approved 2 months ago and still we have had no reply so he rang them and I think its ok till last 16 or something.

clockity
-17th June 2003, 15:34
At the World Championships a couple of years ago (2001 maybe?) they didn't allow Milanoli (Italian Epeéist) to fence with his Psycho Clown mask in the last 64/32/16 (delete as applicable), as it was a distraction. Not sure what the FIE stance is on all of this, or whether it has moved on since the clown incident.

It might make the sport more "TV friendly" if they did allow custom designs on the masks, such as club colours, logs and the like. This may have more appeal to those outside the sport than just using clear masks to spice up the interest in the sport. It could be along the lines of crash helmets, ice hockey goalie masks, and the like.

The nationalistic icons (flags, crosses, dragons, etc...) would be a natural progression of colour being implemented with the lamés using tricolour patterns, the go faster stripes, Addidas stripes and coloured arms on jackets. It seems to be the direction the sport is evolving in clothing wise.

Personally I like the idea, and could think of various designs that could be used on teh masks. Although, the paint would have to be hard-wearing and custom made for painting on a surface that expects to be marked and scraped (again crash helmet and goalie mask paints).

Just my thoughts.

In answer to the actual question on the FIE's stance on painted masks, I have no idea!

Sorry for the ramble.

Marcos
-17th June 2003, 15:39
Cheers boss

personally I reckon they do more for the sport than the transparent masks

clockity
-17th June 2003, 15:53
Originally posted by Kingkenny
You have to get the mask approved by the F.I.E. if you want to use them in a-grades.
The Braveheart mask was done at LPaul and was clever as it was a sabre ask and the conductivity was still good even though there was a design on it. The spiderman mask we did for L Halsted ( http://www.leonpaul.com/news/team_s/la_halst.htm ) went to be approved 2 months ago and still we have had no reply so he rang them and I think its ok till last 16 or something.

Now that's a cool mask!
:cool:

I like the ice hockey goalie masks, like the classic Dryden target mask:
http://www.hockeymasks.com/profiles/01-Ken-Dryden-Mask.jpg

or here's another Spider-Man mask one:
http://www.daveart.com/bilder/masker/2002/883/m_2.jpg

kingkenny
-17th June 2003, 16:11
They are really good I am sure I could do something like the last one on a see though mask so the mouth was open round the visor.
:grin:

clockity
-17th June 2003, 22:42
Originally posted by Kingkenny
They are really good I am sure I could do something like the last one on a see though mask so the mouth was open round the visor.
:grin:

That sounds really cool KingKenny, I'd love to get a mask painted up. You've probably guessed that from all the posts in this thread. I think it would be eye catching and a change from the normal masks. Just another step in the evolution of the mask after those coloured masks grew from the plain black ones. It's just getting hold of a second mask and getting someone to paint the design that's holding me back. I don't think I'd have much problem from using it in competitions, as I don't usually make the last 16!

Here's an example of Cujo the mad dog that is pretty much the standard way that Goalie masks use open mouths, it was worn by Curtis Joseph when he played in St. Louis.:
http://www.itech.com/images/gmasks/Joseph1998.jpg
I think it could be a good basis for the visor masks, I've seen goalies use dogs, lions, sharks, dragons etc. with an open mask before.

A more sword based one would be this Buffalo Sabres mask worn by Gary Bromley in the 70's:
http://www.hockeymasks.com/profiles/39-Gary-Bromley-Mask.jpg

If you want to get anymore mask ideas and links to current artists then PM me. I can point you in the right direction to see what other artists have done to personalise goalie masks. Personalised masks usually fall in to two styles: using the club logo and colours (this could relate to country designs); or a design that's got significance to the goalie (like Spider-Man or whatever).

Gav
-18th June 2003, 05:32
Wow! Those are eye catching designs - very nice.

Marcos
-18th June 2003, 10:04
Kingkenny,

what would be the cost of these things - for instance, if I handed you my existing Sabre mask and asked for, say, a shamrock or Irish tri-colour to be put on?

I guess you could also do a small motif on the side of the mask rather than cover all the mesh.

I don't think the sport should turn into WWF wrestling, but as I said I reckon they're great, especially if the designs, like Halstead's, are unique (tho that would lead to an increase in cost).

ps surely a great design would be the mask from "Scream"

Jambo
-18th June 2003, 10:38
Not to be a spolisport or anything but don't you think it could get a bit daft and out of hand. Designs like that would be distracting and could make the whole sport somewhat farcical, whats next...cheerleaders? Hmmm, on second thoughts:grin:

Gav
-18th June 2003, 10:45
Jambo,

I'm more worried about looking iike a clown - literally. I really hate these brightly coloured uniforms. I think they look like clown outfits already.

Jambo
-18th June 2003, 10:47
Yeah, thats what I meant. Team/Country colours and emblems are one thing, wacky designs are not a good idea IMO.

kingkenny
-18th June 2003, 10:54
God you lot are boring a bit of colour never hurt anyone. If you want to wear white wear white if you want to wear colours wear colours. Its like fashion I would not wear a skirt like becks but I would not try and stop him.

Baaaaaa!!!!!!! To all the people who are scared of change.

(Ps I could do a mask but not right now (bussy for 6 weeks solid)and you would be best coming in to the lp show room and I could show you how to do it and then you could do it yourself next time.)

Marcos
-18th June 2003, 13:26
Thinking of when I fenced Braveheart (Hoeningman I think it was) it wasn't distracting so much as intimidating!

Cheetara
-18th June 2003, 13:32
I think colours on masks/clothes is definately the way forward. I even ordered a red sabre lame and waited for it the get specially sent over from Germany than get a boring silver one.

(Identity now officially blown)

Mantis
-18th June 2003, 13:36
Scratch this message. If you read it before I deleted it, it just goes to show that I cannot read. ;)

clockity
-18th June 2003, 13:43
Originally posted by Kingkenny
(Ps I could do a mask but not right now (bussy for 6 weeks solid)and you would be best coming in to the lp show room and I could show you how to do it and then you could do it yourself next time.)

Seeing how to put a design on a mask would be very interesting. I'd like to see the process that would need to be taken. I may take you up on being shown how to do it next time I pop into the LP show room.

Designs on the side meshing would be good, such as the GB stripe pattern could go across the entire side mesh at the back (maybe this has been done), or a lion and unicorn on each side of th emask staring forward. I like the idea of being able to personalise our masks. I think team/country colours would be a start.

I presume it would be easier to do masks for Foil and Epée as they are not conductive like Sabre masks.

The best in the mouth mask I've seen is this one:
http://www.kazlaaz.com/goalies/pictures/maskhayward01.jpg

That's probably enough images and ideas for now.

Note to self, stop abusing the Image Link button...

wingnutLP
-18th June 2003, 13:51
Foil and epee masks are much easier but the sabre ones look amazing whan done properly.

The trick with sabre is to get the angle of application right with a spray gun. then you have to remove all the ink on the surface of the mask by hand just leaving the material inside the mesh.

clockity
-18th June 2003, 15:13
Now that sounds like a lot of hard work. but the results must look awesome.

I guess it needs to be done on a new mask before the bib is attached to get the best results.

kingkenny
-18th June 2003, 15:54
Here is a picture:

kingkenny
-18th June 2003, 15:55
and another of the jackets:

Marcos
-18th June 2003, 15:56
.
take it away - the nightmares!

clockity
-18th June 2003, 15:57
Originally posted by Marcos
.
take it away - the nightmares!

Is that what you saw at the competition?

Kingkenny: That kit looks great.

Marcos
-18th June 2003, 15:59
that was the one m'lud that scared me half to death on my international debut, and beat me 5-1

James
-18th June 2003, 16:55
i find it interesting that people seem to go more for individual designs rather than national colours. does this say something about fencing in general? or is it a result of the fencers feel they're ignored by the country?

[(or am i completely wrong) in my own opinion i prefer indivual designs. much more scope much more modern. not too keen on nationalism to be honest]

i think a darth maul mask could look pretty funky
but at some point if these masks are going to take off i believe the designs will have to become original. we can't have fencing competions looking like a superhero convention now can we?

Hudson
-18th June 2003, 17:21
think i'll be paying a visit to lp when i get back, could be fun to turn up to an open with a mask that has a design on it :grin:

clockity
-18th June 2003, 18:35
As I said earlier, I prefer the individual designs to plain old international flags, but then again the designs could be based around national symbols or colours. An example could be using shamrocks for Ireland, a red dragon for Wales, an bald headed eagle for America or maple leaves for Canada as the trditional clichés! I don't think flags should be the only things used, but perhaps the flag's colours could be used in the indivdual designs.

:grin:

Aoife
-18th June 2003, 22:05
we can't have fencing competions looking like a superhero convention now can we?

We can't? :grin:

*Starts planning her Yoda mask*

Have one I will. :yoda:

Mantis
-18th June 2003, 22:39
Originally posted by James
we can't have fencing competions looking like a superhero convention now can we?

I posted this page (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/5914/masks/masks.html) in another thread some time ago, but I think it is appropriate here too.

Gav
-19th June 2003, 06:20
I remember seeing this! LOL

Having said that a custom stormtropper pattern on my Epee mask would be pretty cool and wouldn't interfere with my distatste for coloured outfits.

Actually compared with my distaste for coloured outfits I've found the idea of custom masks to be quite appealing. I might have to shell out for a 2nd mask just to get one done.

Gav
-19th June 2003, 06:24
BTW: KingKenny - I'll revise my opinion of cooured outfits slightly for that Sabre jacket - nice job.

kingkenny
-19th June 2003, 07:51
That's quite funny I did those pictures for lp when i was 16 my style has improved since then. (I was a star wars fan). But still love cool designs and the pictures from that comp are some of the best pictures of fencing to date. The colours etc are great red against green, blalalalalallala.
Oh and the guys nose is not pressed against the glass he just has a big nose and its a bad photo for a better photo of me see here:


http://www.lholmes.fsnet.co.uk/images/kenny.jpg

PS I found the W word funny in those days and I was so new to computers i had know idea any one could see it :( :dizzy: :dont: :flush: :silly:

wingnutLP
-19th June 2003, 09:10
Classic I think I will save that picture kenny. Who knows when it might come in handy :grin: ;)

reposte
-19th June 2003, 13:51
Forgive me the women amongst us, but I always thought that the first one to come up a piste with a print of women's breasts will win some championship or other.

Maybe not in Italy...

Aoife
-21st June 2003, 17:50
Why not in Italy? Or am I missing something?




Oh and the guys nose is not pressed against the glass he just has a big nose and its a bad photo for a better photo of me see here:

lol, I thought it looked familier.



I was a star wars fan

Who HASN'T swished their sword around making lightsabre noises interspersed with random Star Wars quotes :)


I found the W word funny in those days and I was so new to computers i had know idea any one could see it

lol, had a feeling that was down to you :grin:

reposte
-21st June 2003, 18:12
I just assumed that with all that "art" lying about they'll be used to it...

They seem to have warmer climate also ...

Aoife
-21st June 2003, 19:29
Ahhhh, that explains things then.:rolleyes:

:grin:

Flaxen_Renegade
-8th July 2003, 08:35
WOW!!!! I always wanted to be Spiderman!!!! Anyway..... Ooh, I want a design on mine! It's not like I Fence at competitions or anything so would it be OK to get one made? Ooh, what design could I have.....?

Jenrick
-8th July 2003, 11:39
Definitely the way to go = the individual designs. It certainly lifts the interest in the bout.

As for national designs I think the individual ones a lot better.

Some great looking designs on forum earlier. I'll have to start thinking of one.

reposte
-8th July 2003, 16:38
The way to go - if and when the FIE approves personal designs - is to have a design which is completely horrid and ugly.
That way, when you win a comp to the occasional camera and you are caught on footage throwing your mask in wild excitement,
there won't be a disappointed growl at the impressed little teenager bosom that has watched you all along, to the sight of your ugly countenance.
I mean, fencing with a beautiful Venetian visage and then to have your own face come out under it may turn a little anti climactical for some of the more aesthetically challenged amongst us
(present company excluded, of course!)

Jenrick
-27th July 2003, 22:30
Anything that detracts from the aesthetically challenged of us can only be a good thing.

uk_45
-17th August 2003, 16:41
Hey i want a totaly crazy Lame with like all pictures of crazy stuff and pictures of the loverly me all over it but i what i want is some one to come up with a mask that u can throw in the air at the end of a comp and be proud of in fact i want a mask with i loverly pic of Iron Maidens Eddie on it and a lame to macth. Hey maybe infact an inteire uniform with like a body on the front like a skeliton suit!!!!
Hmmmm *evil look*
:moon:
:beer:
:lolbash:

Nav
-12th September 2003, 14:08
Who HASN'T swished their sword around making lightsabre noises interspersed with random Star Wars quotes
Heh, hardly a point scored by a beginner goes by without someone saying:
[James Earl Jones]Impressive, but you are not a Jedi yet![/James Earl Jones].

Hmm, is anyone else thinking that all these coloured outfits could have us looking like a harlequin troupe? A guy at my club ordered a gold mask from LP, and I expect it'll look cool if it ever shows up (three months and counting!).

I'm giving thought to spraying mine silver. Have to be careful not to use a paint that might flake off into my eyes though (if anyone ever manages to hit my mask, that is:tongue: ).

spirall333
-16th September 2003, 17:32
does anyone have a brand name or spec for a paint that would be suitable?
B

Moose
-17th September 2003, 23:48
You could try Hammerite :grin:

spirall333
-18th September 2003, 12:19
yeah thought of the chip guard stuff but whats the original paint on the mask? best situation would be like paint to like paint.
B

spirall333
-19th September 2003, 08:54
right i tried hamerite chip shield on mask due to be destoryed and i'm not convinced. i dont think it keys to the original paint very well.
any other sugestions?
B

Moose
-19th September 2003, 10:44
Bloody hell, you didnt actually do it? I was joking! :eek:

spirall333
-19th September 2003, 10:49
dont panic it was a old mask (benift of being the armourer) and the chip shield stuff is for the bottom of cars so its quite tuff and has a vulcanised quality. my next atempt might be a pollyurathane.
i will succeed.
what do paul use?
B

jonnyd
-29th October 2003, 12:21
hi,


my name is john dignam

i recently had my mask painted in duellist.

i have attatched some photos

do you think i could use it in the british youth championships?

Winwaloe
-29th October 2003, 16:18
This also represents a great opportunity for a new award of
"Biggest Looking Prat of the Competition". Some junior events have a style award, this could be replaced by an ultimate bad taste award. There is real potential here!!!!!!

Muso440
-29th October 2003, 16:22
Originally posted by jonnyd

i have attatched some photos


Am I the only person who can't see what I'm supposed to be clicking on?

Prometheus
-29th October 2003, 16:24
No - I can't see it either - perhaps he's the invisible man!!!!!:eek:

jonnyd
-30th October 2003, 21:25
sorry i could not attatch the photos, they were too big

and what the hell do you mean winwaloe, i guess the colours are too bright for your old eyes.

symon
-30th October 2003, 23:54
the colours are just soooooo bright jonnyd we just can't see it he he he :grin:

Winwaloe
-31st October 2003, 14:38
"too bright for my eyes?" - Don't know as I can't see the colours. However, I assume your mask needed rather a large amount of paint?

Moose
-31st October 2003, 17:53
Paint your mask flourescent pink :grin:

uk_45
-1st November 2003, 14:36
Originally posted by Moose
Paint your mask flourescent pink :grin:
Moose just cos you want a pink kit dont mean we all do:tongue:

Ps any one know where i can get a yellow one??:tongue:

jonnyd
-1st November 2003, 19:54
hi

the mask is a union jack winwaloe

i dont know what you mean about a lot of paint?

kitten
-1st November 2003, 21:33
Did somebody say *pink* kit??!! Gimme Gimme Gimme!!!

I think it is exceedingly funky to have individualised kit. Due to the nature of the sport it's nearly impossible to indentify one person from another otherwise. It definately makes fencing more viewer friendly, and as long as it doesn't get so out of hand that it becomes unsafe, I'm all for it!!!


PS where can I get this kit? :>

Moose
-1st November 2003, 23:28
I think Aoife may supply pink kit along with her tailor made groin protectors :grin:

bucket
-3rd November 2003, 11:29
been told from el captain of dundee uni-

if I get orange mask to match the orange fencing socks of doom, then I get bounced out of the club.

though about just painting a steel bucket orange and wearing that in protest.. good idea ?

Boo Boo
-3rd November 2003, 11:54
Allstar UK do yellow and pink masks... :)

http://www.allstar-fencing.co.uk/akm-ami_f.htm (£101.25 including VAT)

Boo
(not advertising for Allstar...)

Moose
-3rd November 2003, 18:02
Mmmmm Red/Black would be cool :)

Winwaloe
-4th November 2003, 12:16
Jonnyd - shame it is the union flag as the dragon would be quite startling. Re the amount of paint. I assumed from a previous reply that you might have a rather large mask?

On a serious note the idea of national flags/colours is great and would be more interesting than fencers wearing something that resembles a welders mask!

uk_45
-4th November 2003, 19:57
Yeah the Dragon would like really good might get my self one. Sure some one has asked already but how much, about, are they?

Moose
-4th November 2003, 23:51
Dunno, a few of the fencers at excalibur (David Sach, et al) had dragon's on their lame's. so I presume it could be doable.

tigger
-5th November 2003, 09:33
Lames are easy to do. You just need to get a stencil made up. I had a specsavers logo done on my old sabre lame. Cost about £20 (Duellist got it sorted for em, but I'm sure the other companies would do it too). I supplied the artwork on disk as a GIF. Masks are a bit trickier!

Muso440
-5th November 2003, 18:52
Originally posted by tigger
I had a specsavers logo done on my old sabre lame.

I take it you work for them? Or are you just slightly eccentric when it comes to lame decoration? ;)

twohappyhippos
-5th November 2003, 19:30
Winwaloe 'On a serious note the idea of national flags/colours is great and would be more interesting than fencers wearing something that resembles a welders mask!'

i know Phil West wore an england flag on his mask that he painted on hiself for the junior quads last year...and wore it very proudly when england were fencing scotland...grrr!!! it looked really good, a bit scary bit reeeeeeeeally good!
i quite like having the side of your mask painted with your country's flag on. i think that looks good.
Plus i like the welsh's dragon on the back of their girly epeeists. looks good!

uk_45
-5th November 2003, 21:27
Hmm id say the dragon could look cool on anything.

Moose
-6th November 2003, 03:21
Apart from a Welshman ;)

Australian
-6th November 2003, 03:31
Originally posted by tigger
Lames are easy to do. You just need to get a stencil made up. I had a specsavers logo done on my old sabre lame. Cost about £20 (Duellist got it sorted for em, but I'm sure the other companies would do it too). I supplied the artwork on disk as a GIF. Masks are a bit trickier!

so will duellist do it on lames or jackets?

jonnyd
-7th November 2003, 16:28
i agree about them being better than visor masks, i think they add some entertainment to fencing and you can get the masks done (front and sides) in duellist for around
£30 including p&p

what are the rules on wearing them in competitions????????

uk_45
-7th November 2003, 16:39
They are on the first page of this thread. I think tho not 100% sure it is if you wish to us it in A-Grades or above you must apply to the F.I.E

uk_45
-13th November 2003, 17:15
Just been looking on the LP site and they sell coloured masks (red, green, blue and orange)
http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/info_280C_NEW.html

Moose
-13th November 2003, 18:31
No coloured sabre masks tho :(

You could annodise the mesh to colour it without affecting conductivity

Slinger
-1st December 2003, 18:19
Paintball players customise their markers "guns" all the time by either powdercoating or annodizing. Since the companies that do the annodising are doing custom work all the time it would probably be no problem to talk them into doing it. You would have to remove the cloth first but that's about it. Here are a couple places that do it. http://www.acme-paintball.com/
http://www.supercocker.com/custom.htm

stevejackson
-1st December 2003, 19:50
Can you anodise Stainless steel? I thought the process involves dyeing the oxide layer on the surface and is specific to aluminium

James
-1st December 2003, 20:04
i know its possible to anodise titanium
but have not a clue about steel

anyway isnt the mesh on most masks coated in plastic?

still those paintball sites look like they do some kick-ass designs


James

Moose
-2nd December 2003, 03:22
Sabre masks arent plastic coated tho :grin:

pinkelephant
-2nd December 2003, 08:31
Originally posted by stevejackson
Can you anodise Stainless steel? I thought the process involves dyeing the oxide layer on the surface and is specific to aluminium

Anodising involves stripping off the existing oxide layer chemically, then making the object the anode in an electrolytic process which produces oxygen at the anode, for example using dilute sulphuric acid as the electrolyte. This produces a thicker, more protective, oxide layer. It is usually done with aluminium, but in theory could be done with ANY metal EXCEPT iron; iron oxide is porous, unlike other metal oxides, so won't protect the iron. Whether it would work with stainless steel would depend on the proportion of other metals in the alloy.

When some metals, including aluminium and titanium, are anodised, they are often dyed as well, as the fresh oxide layers absorb certain dyes very well.

stevejackson
-2nd December 2003, 20:15
Thanks Pink Elephant

Moose
-2nd December 2003, 23:00
Lol, we should change the name to Chemistry Forum :grin:

foilerist
-14th December 2003, 21:06
i've got a red mask with liver birds on the side. one of the other lads at the club has a huge dragon in a welsh stylee on the front looks rather cool and is also easy to identify from a distance or if on the floor with a few masks.

uk_45
-1st January 2004, 11:10
Yeah i would like a nice picture of Iron Maiden's Eddie (see arvater) On my Lame and mask.

Neo
-10th March 2005, 23:01
Originally posted by Kingkenny
God you lot are boring a bit of colour never hurt anyone. If you want to wear white wear white if you want to wear colours wear colours. Its like fashion I would not wear a skirt like becks but I would not try and stop him.

Baaaaaa!!!!!!! To all the people who are scared of change.

(Ps I could do a mask but not right now (bussy for 6 weeks solid)and you would be best coming in to the lp show room and I could show you how to do it and then you could do it yourself next time.)

Ben, could you put a scottish flag on Vision 2000?

purple
-12th April 2005, 15:56
The one thing I haven't noticed answered on this thread is which paint to use? I'm very tempted to knock up a Darth Vader mask... To the extent that I'm working out plans at work.

I'm thinking a standard Paul/PBT mask would be a good starting point.

And it would definately look imposing at competitions.

And then occassionaly for use while coaching...

But which paint to use? Anybody had any serious success yet?

Thermal
-12th April 2005, 21:27
purple: I don't see why standard spray-paint wouldn't work, like the stuff I get from Games Workshop, with some paint from the Citadel range (GW). I rather like those paints. Just as long as they get a good varnish afterwards they are rather hard-wearing.

Talk about it later??

gbm
-12th April 2005, 21:32
It's probably easier for the manufacturer though, since they can do it before attaching the bib (which otherwise is probably going to get covered in paint unless you are very careful)...

Winwaloe
-13th April 2005, 10:21
can't decide whether to have a Cornish flag either side or a Border Collie one side and a flock of sheep going over the front of the mask and around the side!!

purple
-13th April 2005, 14:23
Originally posted by goodbadandme
It's probably easier for the manufacturer though, since they can do it before attaching the bib (which otherwise is probably going to get covered in paint unless you are very careful)...

I think I've got that problem licked. I will post details after we've experimented tonight.

purple
-13th April 2005, 14:26
Here's a scary suggestion for you.

Zippy.

Yep, the scary character from Raindow. The thought of having to face zippy on the piste actually broke me into a cold sweat. I'm wondering if there is some repressed memories there...

Thermal
-13th April 2005, 21:05
Sweetie... Could I have that?? I like Zippy. *pout*looks cute*

vil
-14th April 2005, 00:57
When Streatham fenced at the Science Museum they had some pretty... innovative... masks with them. I never saw them firsthand, just saw the photos afterwards, but check out this one (http://www.streathamfencing.org/Club_Pages/Science_Museum/Science_Museum/science_museum_27.html) for example.

Winwaloe
-14th April 2005, 13:21
The one on the shoulders is REALLY scarey.

purple
-14th April 2005, 15:37
Ah, Vader mask accomplished. I will post photos as soon as I can get to a suitable camera. It's come out as a Manga-esque approach with the hint of Frank Sidebottom.

Very cool.